04-08-16 04:01 AM
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  1. JeepBB's Avatar
    He's kind of right lol let's give Chen the benefit of the doubt and see if what he believes can be achieved by this September.
    And you prove my point.

    With just a few vague and positive words, Chen has given BB another 6 months to sell phones to the "benefits of the doubters ", or as I would prefer, the gullible. And, in September, when Chen says he's not sure, but he thinks he *might* turn it around by next April; do you still give him the benefit of the doubt?

    Here's a scenario for you.

    A customer goes into a store. He wants an Android phone. He likes the Priv, but he's heard that BB are soon to be out of the phone business. He's worried about who will support his Priv after the sale. So he buys an S7 instead, confident that Samsung will still be around and will undoubtedly release the S8 in a year's time.

    BB have inventory to sell. The last thing Chen needs is for it to be generally believed that BB is out of Hardware... hence his public statements.
    04-04-16 02:47 AM
  2. sorinv's Avatar
    The rubber was supposed to hit the road in April. Now its hitting the road in September. Sales dropped again. But sales targets keep changing. Sounds to me as if they are looking for reasons to stay in the hardware business, not get out of it. LOL.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. Like the 10M-5M-3M sales per year target, the get-out-of-hardware deadline keeps moving, too.
    04-04-16 09:17 AM
  3. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I smell rubber burning..........


    Woof..........
    04-04-16 07:15 PM
  4. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    And you prove my point.






    Here's a scenario for you.

    A customer goes into a store. He wants an Android phone. He likes the Priv, but he's heard that BB are soon to be out of the phone business. He's worried about who will support his Priv after the sale. So he buys an S7 instead, confident that Samsung will still be around and will undoubtedly release the S8 in a year's time.

    BB have inventory to sell. The last thing Chen needs is for it to be generally believed that BB is out of Hardware... hence his public statements.
    With just a few vague and positive words, Chen has given BB another 6 months to sell phones to the "benefits of the doubters ", or as I would prefer, the gullible. And, in September, when Chen says he's not sure, but he thinks he *might* turn it around by next April; do you still give him the benefit of the doubt?

    Yup its all about not getting stuck with inventory or as little a they can!

    JeepBB gets a double WOOF on this one!
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-04-16 07:18 PM
  5. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Things are privappearing fast.... ;-D

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    JeepBB and IndianTiwari like this.
    04-04-16 10:36 PM
  6. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Yep, mentioning the "potential", "likely" or whatever exit out of the hardware business send the same STOOPID signal as the FOR SALE sign end of 2013...

    That's SMH stuff right there, Mr. Chen.
    Consumer / Prosumer / Enterprise confidence?

    Ouch! :-D

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    IndianTiwari, JeepBB and bh7171 like this.
    04-04-16 10:38 PM
  7. IndianTiwari's Avatar
    So, now that we know the rubber meets the road in September what could BlackBerry realistically accomplish within the next 5 months that would justify continuing on with hardware? If there's a plan in place what could it possibly be? If you had 5 months to pull hardware out of Old Scratch's death grip what would you do? I keep racking my brain trying to come up with some kinda miracle maneuver but I'm coming up short.

    Posted via CB10
    All I can smell is a burning rubber .
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-05-16 12:54 AM
  8. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Chen isn't a fool like Elop who torpedoed Symbian while Nokia were still making Symbian phones and had stuffed the carrier and retail channels full of stock. Elop Elop'd/Osborne'd the next year's worth of products, even if he was being truthful and wanted Nokia to switch to a more modern platform. Of course, Windows Phone only survives thanks to Microsoft's ability to burn cash but that's all water under the bridge.

    I think Chen will try to move as much inventory as possible before finalizing the end of BB hardware this year. He'll probably give a vague speech about continued support until 20xx to satisfy enterprise and government buyers. Retail consumers will get the middle finger.
    JeepBB and werkregen like this.
    04-05-16 01:37 AM
  9. JeepBB's Avatar
    I think Chen will try to move as much inventory as possible before finalizing the end of BB hardware this year. He'll probably give a vague speech about continued support until 20xx to satisfy enterprise and government buyers. Retail consumers will get the middle finger.
    As I've said, I reckon Chen has already made that decision and will "support" Hardware with nothing but words until it becomes apparent to even the most most faithful that BB isn't going to release another phone... ever.

    It's surely clear to everyone that the Priv, on it's own, cannot generate enough sales to meet Chen's continually lowering sales target. If Chen were serious about Hardware having a future there would already be advanced moves to release the Vienna (or whatever it's called these days). But new phones would cost Chen money to produce, which I'm sure he'd prefer not to spend, so instead the rumours are that any new phone won't appear until the back end of this year (or, realistically, "never").

    If Chen wanted to seriously commit to Hardware. He'd have announced at the ER that the Vienna was coming in the Summer. He was happy to announce Marshmallow coming in May, but most of the money on that has already been committed. Even though it seems to run counter to the "words not deeds" strategy, confidence would have suffered badly if Marshmallow hadn't been announced. So, while Marshmallow is an actual "deed", not simply words, it doesn't really change the basic strategy: Spend no further money on Hardware, sell the remaining inventory, use the money to transition to Software.

    Of course, I can easily be proved wrong... BB could release (not "announce", that's just more words) a new mid-range Android phone in the next couple of months and demonstrate that the Hardware decision hasn't already been made.
    Last edited by JeepBB; 04-05-16 at 06:13 AM.
    IndianTiwari likes this.
    04-05-16 03:37 AM
  10. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    My question is: will there still be a small amount of very expensive BlackBerrys produced for the niche Government market, and will consumers be allowed to purchase these expensive handsets?

    BlackBerry is still (as far as I am aware) the only manufacturer of handsets that most Western governments certify for access to Confidential (& higher) emails on a smartphone (as part of a secure ecosystem, etc, etc). This market may not be large but it is not going to go away.

    Any views?
    04-05-16 07:55 AM
  11. chalx's Avatar
    My question is: will there still be a small amount of very expensive BlackBerrys produced for the niche Government market, and will consumers be allowed to purchase these expensive handsets?

    BlackBerry is still (as far as I am aware) the only manufacturer of handsets that most Western governments certify for access to Confidential (& higher) emails on a smartphone (as part of a secure ecosystem, etc, etc). This market may not be large but it is not going to go away.

    Any views?
    This market will not go away but it is to small to be able to finance Blackberry as a hardware, software and services company. Plus, IIRC Blackberry handsets for such market are improved with additional third party hardware components so Blackberry isn't sole player in this field.
    04-05-16 08:36 AM
  12. werkregen's Avatar
    It's OK, you don't have to explain again...I get it. You don't know. And by the way, 'conspiracy' refers to your asinine theory that BlackBerry has already decided to kill the hardware division and is lying to its customers only so they will keep buying phones. A factless assertion based on extreme prejudice. But I won't go there. I've wasted enough time with you already. Good day!

    Posted via CB10
    I just don't understand why this theory sounds so outrageous to you.

    • BB OS 7 wasn't keeping up with iOS and Android, so they developed BB10. They said they'll support BB OS 7 forever. I wonder, how many OS7 updates were released since then?
    • BB10's adoption didn't meet expectations, so they switched to Android. Of course, they are saying that support for BB10 continues, but they fired their developers. Naturally, 10.3.3's release has been delayed even more. Do you also believe there will be a 10.3.4?
    • people were switching from BBM to other IM clients. They released BBM to iOS and Android. Adoption rate was low, so they fired BBM developers and discontinued Meetings.
    • BB flagship devices were usually announced 4-5 months prior to their release. The PRIV was released 1 month after announcement, exactly because they wanted to sell as many BB10 devices as possible, before they made it clear to the market that BB10 will be phased out.


    As @blueberrymerry said, Chen won't shoot himself in the foot like Elop did, and announce that BB10/hardware is dead while there is still inventory to push. They expected to sell 850.000 devices last year and they sold 600.000. So, we can assume they still have about 250.000 phones in unsold inventory, which is up to 175 million in potential gross revenue. The only thing Chen has to do, in order to rake in some of that revenue, is not declare BB10 or the hardware division dead and keep hope alive.

    He also doesn't have to maintain a positive reputation with consumers if he decides to go software only, since he'll be working only with enterprises. He doesn't even think he needs a positive reputation with consumers. He declared a long time ago, that they are building hardware and software for enterprise, not consumers.

    Based on their past decisions, of dropping everything that didn't meet expectations, it's not exaggerated to assume they're exiting the hardware division, while trying to sell as much as possible from their current inventory.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-05-16 09:25 AM
  13. ubizmo's Avatar
    I'm no CEO, but it seems to me that when a CEO is asked bluntly about whether he plans to exit the handset business, he has to say something. He can't completely dodge the question. So let's imagine three different belief-states he might be in as he formulates his answer:

    1. He's virtually certain he's getting out of the handset business within 6-12 months.
    2. He's genuinely uncertain but thinks there's a chance he can hit his sales target and stay in.
    3. He's truly confident that he can hit his sales target and stay in.

    If 3 were true, he'd have every reason to say something bold, such as announcing new products to be launched. That is, he'd use the opportunity to generate some buzz for BB handsets.

    If 1 or 2, his response would be the same. Keep the answer vague, so as not to destroy sales of existing products, regardless of whether inventory is large or small. So that's the answer we actually got, and it's impossible to say from that answer whether his belief-state is 1 or 2. He would be irresponsible to say anything definite about getting out of hardware as long as there is money to be made selling existing inventory.

    My guess is he's genuinely uncertain, has a few Android models designed and prototyped, but isn't yet willing to pull the trigger. Possibly he wants to see whether the Verizon release of the Priv and/or a modest price reduction make any difference to its uptake.
    04-05-16 09:40 AM
  14. 1Criz's Avatar
    +1 but I think there must be someone on the board of directors that is championing the hardware division. BlackBerry has had plenty of opportune moments to pull the plug and they didn't... and I don't think that's by Chen's design. Someone is still fighting for hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    They couldn't abruptly kill half of their revenue stream.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-05-16 11:17 AM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    All I can smell is a burning rubber .


    I gave you my money, I gave you my time.
    Why you wanna hurt me, RIM?
    IndianTiwari likes this.
    04-05-16 02:22 PM
  16. IndianTiwari's Avatar
     Passport SE on Etisalat 4G Network propelled by 10.3.2.2876
    04-05-16 02:27 PM
  17. DaveyBoy71's Avatar
    I'm just trying to think of this as a grad school exercise where we are trying to save a once lucrative division within a company. How do we do it? Of course we can walk away from hardware and do something different i.e. software BUT what could we feasibly do to turn things around? We are all on Crackberry for whatever reason keeping up with current events. So the question I pose to all of the forward thinking people here is: outside of a miracle, can hardware be saved and how? Perhaps someone here is smarter than the powers that be...

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-16 11:01 PM
  18. JeepBB's Avatar
    So the question I pose to all of the forward thinking people here is: outside of a miracle, can hardware be saved and how?
    I'll pose you another question; Given BB's actions and Chen's frequent and consistent statements on where he's taking BB, over the years he's been in charge, why do you think Chen *wants* to save Hardware?

    Saving Hardware is simple.

    All BB have to do is make Hardware profitable, as Chen has always stated that is his criterion for keeping it. To do that, all BB need to do is design and build an Android phone that large numbers of people want to buy.

    Just how hard can it be?
    04-06-16 02:13 AM
  19. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    I'll pose you another question; Given BB's actions and Chen's frequent and consistent statements on where he's taking BB, over the years he's been in charge, why do you think Chen *wants* to save Hardware?

    Saving Hardware is simple.

    All BB have to do is make Hardware profitable, as Chen has always stated that is his criterion for keeping it. To do that, all BB need to do is design and build an Android phone that large numbers of people want to buy.

    Just how hard can it be?
    Pretty d*** hard, apparently.
    JeepBB and MikeX74 like this.
    04-06-16 11:07 AM
  20. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I'll pose you another question; Given BB's actions and Chen's frequent and consistent statements on where he's taking BB, over the years he's been in charge, why do you think Chen *wants* to save Hardware?

    Saving Hardware is simple.

    All BB have to do is make Hardware profitable, as Chen has always stated that is his criterion for keeping it. To do that, all BB need to do is design and build an Android phone that large numbers of people want to buy.

    Just how hard can it be?
    Ask all the Android hardware manufactures how hard it is. So many of them have a hard time turning a profit, so it should be pretty obvious to anyone with even 2 brain cells to rub together.

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-16 05:58 PM
  21. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Many people fail to realize that the smartphone market is probably the highest-stakes, most competitive market in the world right now. There is an incredible amount of ultra-fierce competition, happy to cut the throat of any competitor they can in any way they can. IMO, BB is simply not up to competing in this market - they may have an OS, but they really don't have anything else they need to be competitive - not even with Android, where the odds are somewhat less against them. BB is still far too big, and far too committed to selling to people who are EXPENSIVE to support and develop for, that they don't stand much chance of surviving in hardware.
    04-06-16 07:45 PM
  22. DaveyBoy71's Avatar
    Many people fail to realize that the smartphone market is probably the highest-stakes, most competitive market in the world right now. There is an incredible amount of ultra-fierce competition, happy to cut the throat of any competitor they can in any way they can. IMO, BB is simply not up to competing in this market - they may have an OS, but they really don't have anything else they need to be competitive - not even with Android, where the odds are somewhat less against them. BB is still far too big, and far too committed to selling to people who are EXPENSIVE to support and develop for, that they don't stand much chance of surviving in hardware.
    Well, what you're saying makes sense and if you're right I supposed my long term affair with BlackBerry is coming to an end. Guess I'll just have to think of it like a once beautiful girl that I was crazy over that became stubborn and fat... better to remember the good times and keep it pushin'.

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-16 08:28 PM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    Ask all the Android hardware manufactures how hard it is. So many of them have a hard time turning a profit, so it should be pretty obvious to anyone with even 2 brain cells to rub together.
    Whoooooosh!

    Perhaps I should have used bigger sarcasm smilies in my post.
    04-06-16 11:44 PM
  24. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Whoooooosh!

    Perhaps I should have used bigger sarcasm smilies in my post.
    No, just use the correct coding procedure so your post compile properly. You should already know that all similar comments should end in "/sarcasm".

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-16 07:57 PM
  25. abwan11's Avatar
    Many people fail to realize that the smartphone market is probably the highest-stakes, most competitive market in the world right now. There is an incredible amount of ultra-fierce competition, happy to cut the throat of any competitor they can in any way they can.
    You fail to realize that that's completely false. The smartphone market is run by Curly and Moe.
    Oil carries the crown you speak of.
    Silly rabbit phones are for kids.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-16 09:12 PM
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