02-21-17 03:01 PM
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  1. crackbb10's Avatar
    Funny thing is that the OP knew that QNX powered the phones which meant they have read about it in the past, but had no clue how QNX is used everywhere else. Weird
    Maybe OP should watch the Super Bowl ad :lol:

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 12:45 PM
  2. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    OK ... so post up the stats that show this? What is the automotive industry currently migrating to? I would be interested in reading into this if this is the case.
    Linux.
    02-20-17 01:55 PM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Linux.
    Have any stats that show that AGL is gaining much marketshare?

    I have heard the some Asian manufacturers have invested a lot into AGL... and it's possible that they have plans down the road.

    In the end I think a LOT will come down to the hardware choices and the necessary software to make Autonomous Cars a reality.... BlackBerry and QNX have been a little slow to directly inter this market. But we don't know what others have been using in their systems.

    But right now QNX is the king..... just like BlackBerry was 10 years ago.
    02-20-17 02:14 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Where are you getting this from? At the end of the day, JC has to do what is in the best interests of the shareholders. So if there is an offer out there that maximizes value to the shareholders, they will execute on it. And honestly, that is regardless of whether there is a strategic growth plan or not. If someone offered obscene amounts of money and said they are just going to use QNX to manage Trump's twitter account and nothing else, I don't think would qualify as a strong strategic growth plan, but that doesn't mean they won't take it.
    Agreed. My poorly worded point was that nobody pays a significant premium for an acquisition unless it is part of a growth strategy, so that the acquiring company would necessarily have to have a compelling growth plan. Also, most such strategic acquisitions are made with a combination of cash and stock, so that the current shareholders would have to believe in the upside for the acquiring company.

    Sorry for any confusion I created by not stating my assumptions.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 02:53 PM
  5. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    Have any stats that show that AGL is gaining much marketshare?

    I have heard the some Asian manufacturers have invested a lot into AGL... and it's possible that they have plans down the road.

    In the end I think a LOT will come down to the hardware choices and the necessary software to make Autonomous Cars a reality.... BlackBerry and QNX have been a little slow to directly inter this market. But we don't know what others have been using in their systems.

    But right now QNX is the king..... just like BlackBerry was 10 years ago.
    What does AGL mean?

    QNX is used today in some cars that I know about, I have information for cars that will be released in 4 years and there Linux is king. I can think of that QNX is used for mission critical systems like autonomous driving but I see Linux is gaining traction there as well. QNX will not be as common in cars as it is today.
    02-20-17 03:52 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    What does AGL mean?

    QNX is used today in some cars that I know about, I have information for cars that will be released in 4 years and there Linux is king. I can think of that QNX is used for mission critical systems like autonomous driving but I see Linux is gaining traction there as well. QNX will not be as common in cars as it is today.
    https://www.automotivelinux.org/

    Does "some cars" equal the majority of cars? QNX deal with Ford has just gotten started, I expect them to be in it for the long haul - but that is just one vendor.

    I have no idea what this market will look like in 10 years. Maybe QNX stays in the forefront with BlackBerry security help - one of the articles about the 300 Employees being moved to Ford mentioned Secusmart also being a part of the deal.... But yes it's going to be a very tough and very competitive market in the coming years.
    02-20-17 04:00 PM
  7. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I am astounded at peoples lack of knowledge on things such as this, and the comment you replied to. People have to differentiate their heads from their hearts. As a BlackBerry user and fan for the better part of 12 years I have been, and continue to be, sadden by the demise of BlackBerry's mobile division. But as a share holder in the company I like the direction that they are taking.
    Well said! Thank you for using your head properly while your heart is in the right place. I only got into Blackberry when the Q10 was released, I never owned a BBOS device but the Q10 and BB10 wowed me enough to convert me into a Blackberry fan; not to mention that BB10's work flow was perfect for my job at the time. And it saddens me greatly that BB10 has to be put out to pasture; but I know full well that it has to be done for the company to stay alive.

    In my humble opinion, the death of Blackberry mobile started when they failed to have a competing product after the release of the first iPhone, and what exacerbated when they released the Storm. After that, there was no turning back.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 06:07 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Tesla is also using Linux for their cars, though they aren't using AGL, which is a relatively new entity. But if you look at the list of AGL partners, it's significant.

    It shouldn't shock anyone that the car manufacturers really don't want to be potentially held hostage by another company for software that is of increasing importance for their products. If QNX was the only solution, as cars become more and more computerized and networked (for example, as necessary for self-driving cars), then BB would have increasing leverage over the automakers - and they don't want that. By (eventually) moving to AGL or some other open-source solution, they won't have to pay increasing license fees to QNX/BB.

    Of course, QNX has a big head-start, so today, they're in a good position. Linux has tons of support in many, many different areas, though, so there is a ton of code to pull from to build a competitor much more quickly than if everything had to be built from scratch, so IMO it probably won't take very long (a year or two) before AGL is seriously competitive with QNX in the auto industry.
    02-20-17 06:22 PM
  9. Emaderton3's Avatar
    We shouldn't forget that QNX is used in other business sectors besides automotive--medical, defense, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 08:21 PM
  10. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    Tesla is also using Linux for their cars, though they aren't using AGL, which is a relatively new entity. But if you look at the list of AGL partners, it's significant.

    It shouldn't shock anyone that the car manufacturers really don't want to be potentially held hostage by another company for software that is of increasing importance for their products. If QNX was the only solution, as cars become more and more computerized and networked (for example, as necessary for self-driving cars), then BB would have increasing leverage over the automakers - and they don't want that. By (eventually) moving to AGL or some other open-source solution, they won't have to pay increasing license fees to QNX/BB.

    Of course, QNX has a big head-start, so today, they're in a good position. Linux has tons of support in many, many different areas, though, so there is a ton of code to pull from to build a competitor much more quickly than if everything had to be built from scratch, so IMO it probably won't take very long (a year or two) before AGL is seriously competitive with QNX in the auto industry.
    This is what is happening and I think that Blackberry haven't seized the opportunity in this market well enough. I think automakers saw the mismanagement of Blackberry and decided that they cannot depend on any QNX solution for the future. Blackberry had the opportunity to build up a better and comprehensive product around QNX that could have appealed automakers but they chosed to put QNX in the backwaters. BB10 in media units would have been pretty awesome actually.

    The best for QNX is if it would have another owner than the Blackberry under John Chen whose job was only to bring Blackberry down, which has now happened.

    BTW. with Linux in cars we are going to have some entertainment as these system will be absolutely hacked to shreds by hackers. While QNX systems were hacked in some cars, that will be nothing compared to what will come. That will be a show to enjoy.
    02-21-17 05:25 AM
  11. kvndoom's Avatar
    I try to keep my cars as traditional as possible. Double DIN radios that I can replace myself, no connected stuff. The repair costs when the HVAC and radio and general car controls are all part of the same component are astronomical. No wonder leases keep gaining on conventional loans... I'd be scared to own a lot of these 'modern' cars outside of warranty.

    The closest I come to autonomous driving is cruise control. :P Even that isn't working anymore on my old Altima so I've had to go without for the past 2.5 years.

    Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless
    02-21-17 05:53 AM
  12. app_Developer's Avatar
    This is what is happening and I think that Blackberry haven't seized the opportunity in this market well enough. I think automakers saw the mismanagement of Blackberry and decided that they cannot depend on any QNX solution for the future. Blackberry had the opportunity to build up a better and comprehensive product around QNX that could have appealed automakers but they chosed to put QNX in the backwaters. BB10 in media units would have been pretty awesome actually.
    But most car companies don't buy infotainments systems from QNX. Some buy these systems from other companies, who in turn buy software from QNX and then build a bunch of other software on top of that and integrate all of that with hardware. Others do this work themselves, or at least some blend of internal work.

    It would be hard for QNX to become a first tier vendor in infotainment (they'd be competing against their most important customers). They have a better chance with ADAS to set themselves in a better position in that value stream.


    BTW. with Linux in cars we are going to have some entertainment as these system will be absolutely hacked to shreds by hackers. While QNX systems were hacked in some cars, that will be nothing compared to what will come. That will be a show to enjoy.
    Tesla is a very high profile target. So far we've seen two reproducible hacks there, right? Both were reasonably unlikely to happen to real users. And both were patched quickly. I don't think they've been "hacked to shreds".
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and BigBadWulf like this.
    02-21-17 11:24 AM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    This is what is happening and I think that Blackberry haven't seized the opportunity in this market well enough. I think automakers saw the mismanagement of Blackberry and decided that they cannot depend on any QNX solution for the future. Blackberry had the opportunity to build up a better and comprehensive product around QNX that could have appealed automakers but they chosed to put QNX in the backwaters. BB10 in media units would have been pretty awesome actually.

    The best for QNX is if it would have another owner than the Blackberry under John Chen whose job was only to bring Blackberry down, which has now happened.
    I have no idea what you're talking about. QNX has done very well under Chen, having expanded greatly in the auto field, including wresting away Ford (a massive auto company) away from Microsoft. They got Ford because of their overall excellence and leadership in the field. Chen's done just fine with QNX for Cars - maybe better than expected.

    You clearly have some bitterness about BB10, but that decision was made by the board and by Prem Watsa before Chen was ever brought in. Any bitterness you have about BB10 should be directed towards Mike Lazaridis, as it was his choices that assured its market failure.
    02-21-17 12:48 PM
  14. docfreed's Avatar
    QNX is not the issue here - it has about 50% market share and is predicted to remain close to that for the next five years - only Linux has a chance to eclipse QNX [and it is predicted to do so]. Here is a very interesting article, quite up-to-date with actual market shares: https://marketonchart.com/ideas/inve...nx/20/10/2016/
    The REAL ISSUE here, as is correctly pointed out above is Blackberry itself:
    1. As the above article shows, Blackberry's R&D is/has declined precipitously - who wants to buy from a company that won't invest in its own product
    2. Blackberry is paying scant attention to other QNX opportunities
    3. Blackberry is notorious for poor execution, poor product rollouts and awful marketing
    AND finally, Chen is a terrible mumbling, stumbling poor spokesman for his company, at times difficult to understand,
    at times unfamiliar with his own products and usually way off message. BBRY needs a profesional marketing team to
    capitalize on the opportunity that QNX offers - they need to stop talking about phones and get on with life (although
    I miss my BB10 phones terribly)

    I have no idea what you're talking about. QNX has done very well under Chen, having expanded greatly in the auto field, including wresting away Ford (a massive auto company) away from Microsoft. They got Ford because of their overall excellence and leadership in the field. Chen's done just fine with QNX for Cars - maybe better than expected.

    You clearly have some bitterness about BB10, but that decision was made by the board and by Prem Watsa before Chen was ever brought in. Any bitterness you have about BB10 should be directed towards Mike Lazaridis, as it was his choices that assured its market failure.
    JulesDB likes this.
    02-21-17 01:30 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    QNX own success and BlackBerry's ownership... are what has caused some to look at other options. No one wants to see a situation like with Microsoft owning 90% of desktop software business. It's just software.... Linux can be used for in house development cost, or a already customized distribution like AGL can be utilized to cut out some development cost. There is no doubt that going forward QNX is going to face a little more competition. And one slight issue might be who all left with Dan Dodge and what (if anything) or they working on? .

    But BlackBerry does have the advantage of QNX plus BlackBerry security... something that many now understand will need to be built into these cars.
    02-21-17 01:45 PM
  16. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I'm not sure everyone understands the different ways that QNX or other OSs are used by cars.

    At the core, QNX is being used to manage the computer-controlled functions of the car itself: engine & fuel management, emissions, active suspensions, ABS brakes, etc. That's all tiny, efficient, text-based code. It's "boring" and it doesn't make a lot of money per car, but it's important.

    Then, some cars have an infotainment system built on top of QNX For Cars, which is a separate product. QNX For Cars is really a bunch of software modules that work with specific hardware modules, that car manufacturers (or their subcontractors) can use to build an infotainment system with. Car companies all want their own UIs and graphics, but they don't want to reinvent the wheel, so they use these modules much like a home builder might use pre-framed wall and roof pieces to speed the build of a house - but they still create the configuration and the look themselves.

    And now we're getting into "driverless" cars - ADA (Advanced Driver Assistance). That's a big step above core car management, and one that QNX should be able to ask a premium for, at least for a while, for a set of modules that allows common functions (sensor input from cameras, lidars, and other sensors, and control functions for steering, braking, etc.) to be quickly built into a working system.

    Yes, there will be Linux competition. Yes, I expect Linux to capture a significant marketshare eventually, but at least for today, QNX has a solid reputation in this market and a market-leading position. If they exploit that well, they should do fairly well for at least 10 years.

    But, make no mistake about it: in the software business, nothing is ever finished - you must constantly be moving forward, because your competitors will all be doing so, and being left behind will result in you joining brands like Lotus, WordPerfect, Borland, Corel, Netscape, etc. At least this is something that Chen understands.

    None of it may matter much anyway, though, because I believe Chen's endgame is to get BB acquired at some kind of a premium to get some money for BB's major investors, many of whom are upside down right now. I think if he could get BB in a position where someone would pay $10-12 a share, the board would sign off on an acquisition.
    Last edited by Troy Tiscareno; 02-22-17 at 12:20 AM.
    02-21-17 02:08 PM
  17. docfreed's Avatar
    I think a sale of the company is exactly Chen's endgame - both for himself and Watsa. Problem is $10-$12 /share is a huge premium over book that BBRY has to show much greater stock appreciation - right now (about 4 PM) they're down about 2% and spinning around in a very narrow band. Doesn't appear as if anyone is paying attention to the recent slew of positive spin about the company (or doesn't believe that Google, MSFT, Apple, etc is going to sit on their hands and let BBRY take the ADAS and Infotainment market away from them)

    I'm not sure everyone understands the different ways that QNX or other OSs are used by cars.

    At the core, QNX is being used to manage the computer-controlled functions of the car itself: engine & fuel management, emissions, active suspensions, ABS brakes, etc. That's all tiny, efficient, text-based code. It's "boring" and it doesn't make a lot of money per car, but it's important.

    Then, some cars have an infotainment system built on top of QNX For Cars, which is a separate product. QNX For Cars is really a bunch of software modules that work with specific hardware modules, that car manufacturers (or their subcontractors) can use to build an infotainment system with. Car companies all want their own UIs and graphics, but they don't want to reinvent the wheel, so they use these modules much like a home builder might use pre-framed wall and ceiling pieces to speed the build of a house - but they still create the configuration and the look themselves.

    And now we're getting into "driverless" cars - ADA (Advanced Driver Assistance). That's a big step above core car management, and one that QNX should be able to ask a premium for, at least for a while, for a set of modules that allows common functions (sensor input from cameras, lidars, and other sensors, and control functions for steering, braking, etc.) to be quickly built into a working system.

    Yes, there will be Linux competition. Yes, I expect Linux to capture a significant marketshare eventually, but at least for today, QNX has a solid reputation in this market and a market-leading position. If they exploit that well, they should do fairly well for at least 10 years.

    But, make no mistake about it: in the software business, nothing is ever finished - you must constantly be moving forward, because your competitors will all be doing so, and being left behind will result in you joining brands like Lotus, WordPerfect, Borland, Corel, Netscape, etc. At least this is something that Chen understands.

    None of it may matter much anyway, though, because I believe Chen's endgame is to get BB acquired at some kind of a premium to get some money for BB's major investors, many of whom are upside down right now. I think if he could get BB in a position where someone would pay $10-12 a share, the board would sign off on an acquisition.
    02-21-17 03:01 PM
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