[Bishkin]

How much of that is spam messaging, I must get several every day!

If your on anyone's contact list or even people putting random numbers. You can block them, but it's getting really annoying.

On BBM at least even with suggested contacts, you get a request.



Posted via CB10

Then you know more annoying people than I do, I don't have BBM on my Z10 and my Whatsapp and the other 2 got no spam in them so far. As a matter of fact I don't remember getting any spam on my mobile.

[decoy7]

There will be no catching up.

Q10 SQN100-3/10.2.1.1925

[RyanGermann]

64 billion per day? if their user base is 500 million or so they claim, that's 128 messages per day per person.

Can you say 'bots'? or 'shenanigans'? They're at least counting a single message sent and received as two... which makes me ask "why do they have to inflate the figures?" or is this some hysterical exaggeration for April fool's?

[arvind1983]

And how will this perception problem be solved by BlackBerry?

It will accelerate when the perception problems are dealt with. People have a stupid negative perception of BlackBerry.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[notfanboy]

64 billion per day? if their user base is 500 million or so they claim, that's 128 messages per day per person.

Can you say 'bots'? or 'shenanigans'? They're at least counting a single message sent and received as two... which makes me ask "why do they have to inflate the figures?" or is this some hysterical exaggeration for April fool's?

It's commendable that you did the math, but it's useless of you didn't read the article. Let me quote :

"The news came via WhatsApp's Twitter feed, with the team announcing a total of 20-billion sent messages and 44-billion received.

The figures aren’t equal because group chat means one sent message can have several recipients, upping the grand total by a significant chunk."

They never claimed "sent", just "handled". "Sent" was your assumption. They also didn't say "per day". They clearly meant that the number was a high water mark, not a daily average.

[RyanGermann]

It's commendable that you did the math, but it's useless of you didn't read the article. Let me quote :

"The news came via WhatsApp's Twitter feed, with the team announcing a total of 20-billion sent messages and 44-billion received.

The figures aren’t equal because group chat means one sent message can have several recipients, upping the grand total by a significant chunk."

They never claimed "sent", just "handled". "Sent" was your assumption. They also didn't say "per day". They clearly meant that the number was a high water mark, not a daily average.

thanks for clairifying... did the include their own spam messages in the tally?

The figures are still implausible, and the headline is misleading, pointedly.

[Bishkin]

thanks for clairifying... did the include their own spam messages in the tally?

The figures are still implausible, and the headline is misleading, pointedly.

Yesterday alone, 3 contacts and me had a total of about 120 Whatsapp messages. I don't know if that is a lot because I never count them until just now. And no the headline is not misleading, it is as accurate at the passage said it is.

[tinochiko]

64 billion per day? if their user base is 500 million or so they claim, that's 128 messages per day per person.

Can you say 'bots'? or 'shenanigans'? They're at least counting a single message sent and received as two... which makes me ask "why do they have to inflate the figures?" or is this some hysterical exaggeration for April fool's?

20 million sent, some of those are sent in groups, that's why there's 42 billion received messages so it would be 500million divided by 20 million, which isn't impossible..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Edit - already been covered. So nvm

[tabish4u]

true indeed
those who are opposing this fact can live in denial that bbm is good in this that etc all my friends on BBM and i dont like wats app but let me clear some doubts
its funny to compare BBM with wats app.. well the value of wats app is atleast 4 time the total value of blackberry as a whole.
the user base is atleast 6 times that of blackberry.
works flawless between cross platform(dont talk about an hour outrage of wats app, in bbm for ios and android its there every day)
out of the box easy to use for even a kid or old grandpartents as its just a simple msg app.
properly configured UI, sleek and upto the task it is intended.
yes spamming is there coz u share ur number but its a replacement of text msg with mms so thats the mantra.
no need to find or send request those already in your addressbook will always show you in list.
notifications are superb, groups sharing of video etc is flawless and intutive rather than bbm where ther is a seperate box for pictures(where pic doest show full etc)
features: location sharing is flawless, contact sharing is flawless, you can click on view media in group top and it will show media which is shared in group with time. try to add multiple pics in BBM and then on wats app, you will understand why its so sucessful and so much more valuable than whole of blackberry.
i expect some backfire but its ok atleast i live in real world and yes i am a bb user but prefer to have it as my secondary phone .
come on shoot me with some fire... atleast i am not in denial.
sorry for my typo mistakes since using iphone so its obvious to have type errors

[tinochiko]

true indeed
those who are opposing this fact can live in denial that bbm is good in this that etc all my friends on BBM and i dont like wats app but let me clear some doubts
its funny to compare BBM with wats app.. well the value of wats app is atleast 4 time the total value of blackberry as a whole.
the user base is atleast 6 times that of blackberry.
works flawless between cross platform(dont talk about an hour outrage of wats app, in bbm for ios and android its there every day)
out of the box easy to use

for even a kid or old grandpartents as its just a simple msg app.
properly configured UI, sleek and upto the task it is intended.
yes spamming is there coz u share ur number but its a replacement of text msg with mms so thats the mantra.
no need to find or send request those already in your addressbook will always show you in list.
notifications are superb, groups sharing of video etc is flawless and intutive rather than bbm where ther is a seperate box for pictures(where pic doest show full etc)
features: location sharing is flawless, contact sharing is flawless, you can click on view media in group top and it will show media which is shared in group with time. try to add multiple pics in BBM and then on wats app, you will understand why its so sucessful and so much more valuable than whole of blackberry.
i expect some backfire but its ok atleast i live in real world and yes i am a bb user but prefer to have it as my secondary phone .
come on shoot me with some fire... atleast i am not in denial.
sorry for my typo mistakes since using iphone so its obvious to have type errors

On the whole i slightly agree but on certain points I have an issue;

1) all whatsapp does is messaging, so all their resources go into improving and working on the stability etc of their messaging service, it's not so simple or easy with BlackBerry and like I've said myself they need to improve on this

2) it is difficult to even compare bbm with whatsapp because bbm is so much more, and maybe that is part of the problem, right now it's more comparable to Facebook than whatsapp,

3) I'd you're going to make a point that you know is going to be agitative, don't exaggerate, yes outages are more frequent on bbm (even before it was cross platform) but it's not every day, whatsapp does not work 'flawlessly' but this extends to another point..

4) iPhone as an OS is on the whole more stable than BB10, also it has been around longer (though you could argue ios7 was Apples BB10 but not really), at the very least we can say whatsapp has been cross platform much longer than bbm has, that means (and take this in with point one in mind) that they've had time to stabilise their service, making it run smoother etc, whereas bbm cross platform has been out less than 6 months and yes there are glitches but I've already spoken about that in a previous post


5) BBM group chat is not actually a fair comparison to whatsapp, a better comparison is multiperson chat because group chat goes above and beyond( Calender Sync etc) , in any case some people like having an uncluttered chat feed and going somewhere seperate for pictures, the improvement here would be choice but you can't say it's something it lacks because it's just one over the other

6) yes some features on whatsapp work really well, but bbm does so much more (too much arguably) which is why if groups where a seperate app, it would be a little less clustered

7) we all live in the same world we just see it in different ways, a lot of people think they're perspective is right, but how about we just share our perspectives without attacking them and see how much we learn..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[morlock_man]

How do we know Whatsapp is being completely honest about their reported numbers?

At 64 billion messages a day, their entire subscriber base of 450 million people would have to send about 142 messages a day.

Now since there's some people that only use it once a week or only send a few messages a day, this means that the remainder of the subscriber base must be picking up the slack, with some users sending thousands of messages a day.

While I don't dismiss this as possible, these number do seem somewhat inflated.

I hope their bubble pops.

[tinochiko]

How do we know Whatsapp is being completely honest about their reported numbers?

At 64 billion messages a day, their entire subscriber base of 450 million people would have to send about 142 messages a day.

Now since there's some people that only use it once a week or only send a few messages a day, this means that the remainder of the subscriber base must be picking up the slack, with some users sending thousands of messages a day.

While I don't dismiss this as possible, these number do seem somewhat inflated.

I hope their bubble pops.

Point has already been made, read the last few posts

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[morlock_man]

Point has already been made, read the last few posts

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Was typing while it went up.

So only 20 billion messages actually sent by users.

They've got to stop this double accounting practice of theirs.

[tabish4u]

On the whole i slightly agree but on certain points I have an issue;

1) all whatsapp does is messaging, so all their resources go into improving and working on the stability etc of their messaging service, it's not so simple or easy with BlackBerry and like I've said myself they need to improve on this

2) it is difficult to even compare bbm with whatsapp because bbm is so much more, and maybe that is part of the problem, right now it's more comparable to Facebook than whatsapp,

3) I'd you're going to make a point that you know is going to be agitative, don't exaggerate, yes outages are more frequent on bbm (even before it was cross platform) but it's not every day, whatsapp does not work 'flawlessly' but this extends to another point..

4) iPhone as an OS is on the whole more stable than BB10, also it has been around longer (though you could argue ios7 was Apples BB10 but not really), at the very least we can say whatsapp has been cross platform much longer than bbm has, that means (and take this in with point one in mind) that they've had time to stabilise their service, making it run smoother etc, whereas bbm cross platform has been out less than 6 months and yes there are glitches but I've already spoken about that in a previous post


5) BBM group chat is not actually a fair comparison to whatsapp, a better comparison is multiperson chat because group chat goes above and beyond( Calender Sync etc) , in any case some people like having an uncluttered chat feed and going somewhere seperate for pictures, the improvement here would be choice but you can't say it's something it lacks because it's just one over the other

6) yes some features on whatsapp work really well, but bbm does so much more (too much arguably) which is why if groups where a seperate app, it would be a little less clustered

7) we all live in the same world we just see it in different ways, a lot of people think they're perspective is right, but how about we just share our perspectives without attacking them and see how much we learn..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Completly agree with you, atleast there is some sensible discussion started, actually i barely use cb foroums to the fact that people here tend to take it very negatively.

to your points i would like to clarify that agreed BBM is new in cross platform but been is msg vertical for ages i suppose, but if you see other msg or communication apps like wechat, line, kik, all are cross plateform since their inception but why BBM has such issues. trust me when i send pic from my bbm on ios to my bb it keeps showing me sending, when msg comes in notification and when i open it doesnt show anything.
agreed to the fact that BBM planning to go beyong msg thing but when the core features are so unreliable and unstable how can a person use the service.
take wats app they excel in msg stuff... twitter for tweets.. fb for timelines.... but one thing is common in them : their core service is stable and bug free and that makes a person stick to it.
i dont think BBM will do any good in futre also unless, they change the UI, their contact adding stuff and reliability and stability in the core function.
No one care what goodies they are adding, no one outside bb community is intrested in it NOT because of marketting. its about half baked unpolished, untested and complicated UI which doomed the BBM flow.
i remember when first they announced cross plateform, then how many ppl download the app in some anticipation and same expection of quality.. so they spill the beans by themselves only.
yes every app has bugs in beginning but unstability is like death knell for any msg app. no matter how you will keep on eradicating it but yes the perception is changed about BBM and its not at all related with BB. BBM was a class on its own even when bb is down with negative perception.
80 percent of ios and android guys have already deleted bbm or been lying ded in their app drawer, i personally believe they have a very weak team of ios and android developers and lack the designer and analytic guys, quality of resource m talking about. i dont think low cash ahs anything to do with it, people in bangalore india a small team of 5 ppl do a lot more good and better work in its design and development then these guys has done so far.
i am saying on behalf of Grape Unicom pvt ltd (my company) who has built a flawless and awesome app for bahrain egovt authority to be used by ministers in govt. and you know wat, only team of 5 guys together getting paid around 3000 USD per month.
like us there are tons of good companies... thou this is only a small vertical in our portfolio....

we have developed smart sms(SIRI thing on text). thats called something innovative and bb has to think like these things.
check out Grape Unicom thx but thats not an endorsement, thats something which i am trying to communicate that when ppl like us can do why cant bb

[SirJes]

So it's actually like 30 billion per day?

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

Was typing while it went up.

So only 20 billion messages actually sent by users.

They've got to stop this double accounting practice of theirs.

No problem, if you read the linked article you would see that the site wrote that headline, they want to write the most captivating headline in as few words as possible, if the company was BlackBerry they would do the same, whatsapp didnt tweet the total figure they are the ones who tweeted seperate figures for sent vs received, the site combined them for the headline..


TechCraze C0008DDD1

[notfanboy]

thanks for clairifying... did the include their own spam messages in the tally?

The figures are still implausible, and the headline is misleading, pointedly.

So doing the math, WhatsApp's 20 billion sent averages to 40 messages sent per user on their record breaking day.

If you think 40 on a record breaking day is implausible, then what do you think of 98 on an average day? If any company claimed 98 messages sent per user per day, what would you honestly think?

From a BlackBerry press release

BBM has ... than 51 million people using BBM an average of 90 minutes per day. BBM customers collectively send and receive more than 10 billion messages each day, nearly twice as many messages per user per day as compared to other mobile messaging apps.

If WhatApp's 40 is implausible, the what do you think of BBM's 98?

[tinochiko]

Completly agree with you, atleast there is some sensible discussion started, actually i barely use cb foroums to the fact that people here tend to take it very negatively.

to your points i would like to clarify that agreed BBM is new in cross platform but been is msg vertical for ages i suppose, but if you see other msg or communication apps like wechat, line, kik, all are cross plateform since their inception but why BBM has such issues. trust me when i send pic from my bbm on ios to my bb it keeps showing me sending, when msg comes in notification and when i open it doesnt show anything.
agreed to the fact that BBM planning to go beyong msg thing but when the core features are so unreliable and unstable how can a person use the service.
take wats app they excel in msg stuff... twitter for tweets.. fb for timelines.... but one thing is common in them : their core service is stable and bug free and that makes a person stick to it.
i dont think BBM will do any good in futre also unless, they change the UI, their contact adding stuff and reliability and stability in the core function.
No one care what goodies they are adding, no one outside bb community is intrested in it NOT because of marketting. its about half baked unpolished, untested and complicated UI which doomed the BBM flow.
i remember when first they announced cross plateform, then how many ppl download the app in some anticipation and same expection of quality.. so they spill the beans by themselves only.
yes every app has bugs in beginning but unstability is like death knell for any msg app. no matter how you will keep on eradicating it but yes the perception is changed about BBM and its not at all related with BB. BBM was a class on its own even when bb is down with negative perception.
80 percent of ios and android guys have already deleted bbm or been lying ded in their app drawer, i personally believe they have a very weak team of ios and android developers and lack the designer and analytic guys, quality of resource m talking about. i dont think low cash ahs anything to do with it, people in bangalore india a small team of 5 ppl do a lot more good and better work in its design and development then these guys has done so far.
i am saying on behalf of Grape Unicom pvt ltd (my company) who has built a flawless and awesome app for bahrain egovt authority to be used by ministers in govt. and you know wat, only team of 5 guys together getting paid around 3000 USD per month.
like us there are tons of good companies... thou this is only a small vertical in our portfolio....

we have developed smart sms(SIRI thing on text). thats called something innovative and bb has to think like these things.
check out Grape Unicom thx but thats not an endorsement, thats something which i am trying to communicate that when ppl like us can do why cant bb

No problem,

It's important that you note that all those services where started to be cross platform where's BlackBerry has had to go from one to more platforms so it is quite a challenge for them technically,


Your examples there are good except for FB, Twitter specialises in timeliness, snapchat in destructive pictures (and now videos etc) FB is more than just timelines and FB is not bug free lol trust me there are bugs everywhere, they recently paid $30,000 to someone who uncovered one,

Yes it's BlackBerry's job to make them care and they haven't been doing that every well,

In terms of app development, one of the things BlackBerry is doing is to counteract diseconomies of scale, I think it was Kevin or someone who made the comparison of staff with Fb, BlackBerry has/had more people than it needs causing movement to be slow, in that sense of course it is easier for you to make great apps because you are a smaller team, decisions don't need to go through 10 people just to change a little thing, but i do believe they are getting there, just that they need to get there faster..

low cash puts pressure on every spend, people are more comfortable spending money on things they've always spent it on than spending on new things so it could be difficult..


HOWEVER, I don't work for BlackBerry, know little about how things have been done internally so I can't know exactly what's been going wrong, just guess, and transparency is yet another issue, although I understand they can't say too much for competitors sake..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[notfanboy]

Was typing while it went up.

So only 20 billion messages actually sent by users.

They've got to stop this double accounting practice of theirs.

So does BlackBerry. See quoted link in post above.

[BB10user07]

WhatsApps hits record 64-billion messages in a day | T3

It's like China vs US where China is growing at a fast rate economically compared to the US, but China is just so far away from the US, it's worse here because bbm isn't even growing at the same pace as whatsapp (based on last released figures..

Is bbm destined to be number 2? It's strange also because whatsapp is so limited in terms of features and it seen a limited apps are gold these days, less is more, that's why i think BBM Groups Should be a separate app!

Thoughts?

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=910458 - more on the bbm groups idea

TechCraze C0008DDD1

No matter how good BBM is, it has no chance. It never had...They have themselves made it that way by using secret PIN'S instead of using phone number that everyone has...common sense is very uncommon ...they however could be great in enterprises, m2m and emerging market teenager space.

Posted via CB10

[tabish4u]

No problem,

It's important that you note that all those services where started to be cross platform where's BlackBerry has had to go from one to more platforms so it is quite a challenge for them technically,


Your examples there are good except for FB, Twitter specialises in timeliness, snapchat in destructive pictures (and now videos etc) FB is more than just timelines and FB is not bug free lol trust me there are bugs everywhere, they recently paid $30,000 to someone who uncovered one,

Yes it's BlackBerry's job to make them care and they haven't been doing that every well,

In terms of app development, one of the things BlackBerry is doing is to counteract diseconomies of scale, I think it was Kevin or someone who made the comparison of staff with Fb, BlackBerry has/had more people than it needs causing movement to be slow, in that sense of course it is easier for you to make great apps because you are a smaller team, decisions don't need to go through 10 people just to change a little thing, but i do believe they are getting there, just that they need to get there faster..

low cash puts pressure on every spend, people are more comfortable spending money on things they've always spent it on than spending on new things so it could be difficult..


HOWEVER, I don't work for BlackBerry, know little about how things have been done internally so I can't know exactly what's been going wrong, just guess, and transparency is yet another issue, although I understand they can't say too much for competitors sake..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

i believe bb mangement was very conventional before heins and they keep capitalising on their core things and were happy in peace, then ios changed the stuff, then come one more powerhouse i.e. google... rest is history..
think heins give a hand in making them cost effective in chain management, but yeah he cant help it all with development team, heirarchy etc then it comes Chen .. let him clean up blackberry for some more time and build an effective team of people, i am possitive about him to the fact that he eases a burden of handsets production by tie up with foxconn.... i remember when heins were calling for sale globally neither of the company was intrested so i think chen is on right track, lets see if we can again relish a true blackberry brand and value it comes associated with.
thou every other competeor has something special with them like apple: iphone hrdware and ios with whole app ecosystem with laptops ipads everything. then google with data approach and power of search engine and maps. then microsoft with exchange, word and skype....

lets see what are bb plans to manage the competetion. thou BBM has great potential but their first priority should be to make it stable, dont add voice or video till u get it perfectly right, we are at a point where a wrong move will kill off completly.

[tinochiko]

No matter how good BBM is, it has no chance. It never had...They have themselves made it that way by using secret PIN'S instead of using phone number that everyone has...common sense is very uncommon ...they however could be great in enterprises, m2m and emerging market teenager space.

Posted via CB10

If bbm started to use numbers I would delete bbm


TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Bishkin]

No matter how good BBM is, it has no chance. It never had...They have themselves made it that way by using secret PIN'S instead of using phone number that everyone has...common sense is very uncommon ...they however could be great in enterprises, m2m and emerging market teenager space.

Posted via CB10

Whatsapp is more of a public thing, like people talking in public, talking inside buses, cafes. There is no need to whisper, no need for paranoia.

[BB10user07]

Whatsapp is more of a public thing, like people talking in public, talking inside buses, cafes. There is no need to whisper, no need for paranoia.

Also whatsapp is worth 19 B and BBM Not even worth a 1 B.
Don't get me wrong I like BBM but it cannot compete with whatsapp.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

Also whatsapp is worth 19 B and BBM Not even worth a 1 B.
Don't get me wrong I like BBM but it cannot compete with whatsapp.

Posted via CB10

It is a competitor of whatsapp though? That valuation is just out of thin air, if I bought bbm today fro 50 billion does that mean that's what it's worth? That's how much it is to me doesnt mean that's it's actually value,

To me bbm is worth more than whatsapp..

TechCraze C0008DDD1