04-21-14 09:36 PM
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  1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Hmm, interesting.
    So, are you saying that if I don't have a BES connection that my messages and calls can be intercepted?
    I use BBM mostly for chats, BBM Video/Audio for calls.

    I do agree that if I use a 3rd party services such as clouds Email, cellular calls, etc. then it's up to the 3rd party provider to disclose my personal info or not. Based on the known supporters of the government reform, I wouldn't entrust my data to FB, Google, MS and so on.

    BlackBerry reported that BBM is not protected on non-BlackBerry smartphones due to OpenSSL bug (btw, does open implies that data is open to everybody?).
    Standard phone calls and text messages are unencrypted, so the carriers, and you can safely assume spy agencies (the NSA for certain) have full access to them. So would anyone who gains access to their networks.

    As far as BBM text messages go, I'll let these explain it for you:

    PIN encryption keys - Security Note - BlackBerry Messenger - 5.0, 6.0, 7.0

    By default, each device uses the same global PIN encryption key, which Research In Motion adds to the device during the manufacturing process. The global PIN encryption key permits every device to authenticate and decrypt every BlackBerry Messenger message that the device receives. Because all devices share the same global PIN encryption key, there is a limit to how effectively BlackBerry Messenger messages are encrypted. BlackBerry Messenger messages are not considered as confidential as email messages that are sent from the BlackBerry® Enterprise Server, which use BlackBerry transport layer encryption. Encryption using the global PIN encryption key is sometimes referred to as "scrambling".
    And another article on this:

    FAQ: BlackBerry Messenger & PIN Messages are NOT Encrypted - BerryReview



    Additionally, having the individual permission management, applications are better isolated on BB10 than let's say Android which minimizes the risk of malware stealing personal data.
    This part is definitely true, and a good thing, but closing and locking the windows of your house won't help you against intruders if your doors are unlocked, or even standing wide open. Real security requires ALL vectors to be protected, and no phone marketed to consumers can say that, not even BB. BES gives you a handful of relatively secure services, but even that doesn't make EVERYTHING on your phone secure.
    04-17-14 11:11 PM
  2. WorkStation 0's Avatar
    Feel better now?
    Do you.
    04-17-14 11:34 PM
  3. wasabiGT's Avatar
    sure. Thanks for your point of view.

    Why post in a BlackBerry forum?

    Posted via CB10
    04-17-14 11:51 PM
  4. vrud's Avatar
    So, you're implying that task for government to monitor the whole internet (my phone can be connected to cellular or wifi anywhere in the world) in order to redirect PIN messages to another BB device is comparable to the task of requesting prepared historical or future data from one of the data centers?
    04-17-14 11:53 PM
  5. ChaErra's Avatar
    It was the same thing when I went in to look at the Z10, demo wasn't working and the AT&T rep was clueless and tried to talk me into every other phone in the shop. Needless to say, I didn't listen, picked up my Z10 and three other BB's since then...people shouldn't hate on things they know nothing about!
    04-18-14 12:26 AM
  6. wasabiGT's Avatar
    Lol you should see my Facebook status. I posted I was selling my Q10 because I was upgrading to a Z30 and an ex coworker of mine had to put his two cents in.

    He posts everyone hates BlackBerry and posts a link on my page from 2012 about people hating BlackBerry.

    The worse part about it is, we both worked selling cell phones and he used a Sony Z1. Never used a BB10 device.

    Ignorance I tell you. Ignorance.

    Posted via CB10
    04-18-14 12:38 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So, you're implying that task for government to monitor the whole internet (my phone can be connected to cellular or wifi anywhere in the world) in order to redirect PIN messages to another BB device is comparable to the task of requesting prepared historical or future data from one of the data centers?
    I didn't imply any such thing. I merely pointed out the limitations of BBM security on non-BES phones, as well as several other situations.
    04-18-14 12:57 AM
  8. sixpacker's Avatar
    BlackBerry should address the nsa hacking of bes.

    They acted like it was a 'rumor', and brushed it off. Everyone knows it's true, so the company looks dumb. I hope that internally, they are figuring out how to beef up the encryption of bes so this can't happen anymore

    Posted via CB10
    Being realistic you have to ask yourself what would happen when a commercial organisation is approached by a huge potential (or existing) customer and asked to support them in, for example, "the fight on terror"? Are they going to turn that business away, or are they going to quietly assist, deny everything, and sell a ton of product?
    04-18-14 01:35 AM
  9. jhanks64's Avatar
    OP: I'm the guy that reported a sales girl to the FCC because I felt she lied to me about the Z30. There was quite a bit of comments on that thread: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...s-girl-917514/
    04-18-14 05:34 AM
  10. Jouster's Avatar
    ...And I'm coming from an iPhone 4, Note 3 and even the Jolla...
    Attachment 263864
    You had a Jolla? That's so cool. I've never even seen one. How was it?
    04-18-14 06:48 AM
  11. A895's Avatar
    I never limited the conversation to US networks.



    You really think a device level NSA backdoor would not be getting around encryption, especially when, for instance, iMessage's encryption has been challenged independently of this backdoor?
    So you agree with me then BlackBerry is as vulnerable as other platforms. NSA whatever it`s faults works too well. Encryption and whatnot is extra steps no one wants or really needs, unless you work a high level government position.
    04-18-14 08:41 AM
  12. crucial bbq's Avatar
    I have mentioned this before: surely I cannot be the only Verizon customer who has never experienced the "BlackBerry Hate"?

    For what it is worth; there are a decent number of blog posts/journal articles where former Verizon employees claim they received commissions; with Android phones bringing in the highest commission ($5-$10 for iPhone; $30-$50 for Android). Verizon brings in $100 per iPhone sold yet $200 per top-of-the-line Android. The kicker is that if the iPhone needs servicing the customer is ultimately told to take the phone to an Apple Store as Verizon really cannot do jack. However with Android they can charge for a new SIM, replacement parts, replacement phone, etc. when and where they can so there is in an incentive to push Android phones.

    BlackBerry, like Android, is not on lockdown like Apple. If you BlackBerry breaks you take it to Verizon for servicing (or who-ever), not to an official BlackBerry store like Apple. Realistically, the incentive to sell a Z30 should be the same as an Android as the after-sell opportunities for servicing, etc. are still there.
    keepthetorch likes this.
    04-18-14 09:21 AM
  13. crucial bbq's Avatar
    All of this talk of the NSA makes me chuckle. We have yet to shake our Puritan heritage and live with the duality of Puritanical Law and "freedom". The majority of Americans thought the Patriot Act was a great idea.... as long as it were not our phones that were being tapped.

    And the Patriot Act was nothing new. Don't forget that way back during WWI, before the U.S. was involved, Congress passed the Sedition and Espionage Acts.
    04-18-14 09:34 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    All of this talk of the NSA makes me chuckle. We have yet to shake our Puritan heritage and live with the duality of Puritanical Law and "freedom". The majority of Americans thought the Patriot Act was a great idea.... as long as it were not our phones that were being tapped.

    And the Patriot Act was nothing new. Don't forget that way back during WWI, before the U.S. was involved, Congress passed the Sedition and Espionage Acts.
    Not only that they were throwing Asians into camps just for being suspected of working for the enemy. Things are a lot tamer than it used to be. At least they don't randomly throw people in jail like they used to.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    04-18-14 09:40 AM
  15. raino's Avatar
    So you agree with me then BlackBerry is as vulnerable as other platforms. NSA whatever it`s faults works too well. Encryption and whatnot is extra steps no one wants or really needs, unless you work a high level government position.
    I agree that it's just as vulnerable on networks the surveillance agency has access to. If, for example, the NSA does not have a setup to tap into Japanese networks, they can still use their backdoor to spy on iPhones there.
    04-18-14 09:40 AM
  16. Donnierock's Avatar
    The exact thing happened to me at Verizon too. I went into the store to get the Q10 and they just looked at me. They asked me if I had read any of the reviews on this phone and I said "yes I have and I want that phone. Do you have the phone or not??" They had a "dummy" Q10 for people to inspect and touch, out on the display shelves. They set me up and were really good about doing the port of number and everything else. The manager/owner said that I was the first person to ever come into the store and get a Blackberry phone. I told him a little marketing strategy from Verizon wouldn't hurt (since BB isn't really advertising BB 10 too swiftly nowadays). You can't even view a Blackberry on the Verizon website, unless you intentionally click the BB icon. The Q10 and Z10 are both Free with a 2 year contract, and the Z30 is $199.99 with a 2 year contract, so what's not to advertise Verizon?? I returned to the same Verizon store the next day, to let them know about the 10.2 update and benefits of the phone, and they had removed the dummy phone off of the display shelf and replaced it with an Android. I asked why, and the statement was totally simple...... "It's not selling!!" I think Blackberry needs to step-up and do some major marketing IMHO, especially with Verizon because this is really sad!! GO BB!!!!!!!!!!!!
    04-18-14 09:52 AM
  17. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    The exact thing happened to me at Verizon too. I went into the store to get the Q10 and they just looked at me. They asked me if I had read any of the reviews on this phone and I said "yes I have and I want that phone. Do you have the phone or not??" They had a "dummy" Q10 for people to inspect and touch, out on the display shelves. They set me up and were really good about doing the port of number and everything else. The manager/owner said that I was the first person to ever come into the store and get a Blackberry phone. I told him a little marketing strategy from Verizon wouldn't hurt (since BB isn't really advertising BB 10 too swiftly nowadays). You can't even view a Blackberry on the Verizon website, unless you intentionally click the BB icon. The Q10 and Z10 are both Free with a 2 year contract, and the Z30 is $199.99 with a 2 year contract, so what's not to advertise Verizon?? I returned to the same Verizon store the next day, to let them know about the 10.2 update and benefits of the phone, and they had removed the dummy phone off of the display shelf and replaced it with an Android. I asked why, and the statement was totally simple...... "It's not selling!!" I think Blackberry needs to step-up and do some major marketing IMHO, especially with Verizon because this is really sad!! GO BB!!!!!!!!!!!!
    When they asked you if you had read reviews, you should've said "Yes, have YOU??" and pointed them to their own website where it has 206 reviews with an average of 4 stars!

    Set Your Location

    Additionally, point out the 140 reviews for the Z30 with an average of 4.7 stars!

    Set Your Location
    keepthetorch likes this.
    04-18-14 10:18 AM
  18. anon1727506's Avatar
    Lol you should see my Facebook status. I posted I was selling my Q10 because I was upgrading to a Z30 and an ex coworker of mine had to put his two cents in.

    He posts everyone hates BlackBerry and posts a link on my page from 2012 about people hating BlackBerry.

    The worse part about it is, we both worked selling cell phones and he used a Sony Z1. Never used a BB10 device.

    Ignorance I tell you. Ignorance.

    Posted via CB10
    That BlackBerry's fault for not marketing BB10 Devices so that people knew there is a "new" BlackBerry. Also for not doing away with Legacy! There are plenty of people that have used BlackBerry devices, and that do hate them. I work with a bunch of people in the DOD... guys are using four and five year old BlackBerry's. Thus their "impression" of the Brand is that it sucks...

    Having two competing platforms is not a good idea in this business. Especially when the one shows it's age very badly when compared to newer device running on newer 3G and 4G networks. In a developing market that is still using older technology, sure a BBOS device to browse the web is just as fast (if the user has a full data plan). But in more developed markets allowing customers to keep using BBOS is just diluting an already damaged brand.

    The transition should have been taught out by BlackBerry.... That they are going back and embracing BBOS, and also releasing the Z3 it shows how little that think about the decisions that they are making.
    04-18-14 10:24 AM
  19. keepthetorch's Avatar
    Do you.
    I feel good Friday - thanks. Got up the sun was shining and BB is still around
    WorkStation 0 likes this.
    04-18-14 10:31 AM
  20. keepthetorch's Avatar
    When they asked you if you had read reviews, you should've said "Yes, have YOU??" and pointed them to their own website where it has 206 reviews with an average of 4 stars!

    Set Your Location

    Additionally, point out the 140 reviews for the Z30 with an average of 4.7 stars!

    Set Your Location
    Would the z30 sell if it was offered free with a 2 year contract? I suppose a $150 90 day trial period wouldn't work but at least would get it in peoples hands and work with it for a while. If you bring it back within that time period you get 50% back (if used at least 2 months or something like that). Data usage fees of course apply. If you keep it, you are put on a 21 month contract at normal 2 year contract usage fees and the $150 is credited off your bill over say 6-10 months.
    04-18-14 10:51 AM
  21. collinc93's Avatar
    Here is what I find interesting--the responses you guys give when a sales rep slams BB.....its as if you are either silent or you make excuses as if you are afraid to just be plain and show them what BB is about....Anyone in earshot will hear my response if any of that is tried with me.....you guys are only willing to vent on a forum from behind a keyboard.....I go bigger than that, people think I am crazy when I do...but at least five phones have been bought directly from my rants at sales tech....and trust me I am very polite even in the middle of my ranting
    andy957 likes this.
    04-18-14 12:06 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    It's the NSA I tell you. They have even bought out the Canadian Government.

    It's upto the PROSUMERS to fight back. One way we can do this is make people paranoid about data security. Let the PROSUMERS take it upon themselves to scare at least 20 people into buying a Blackberry and inturn those 20 scare another 20. Soon Blackberry will be bigger than Android. TAKE that NSA. \

    Blackberry is a highly differentiated product with the BEST ecosystem, best phone, best browser, best antenna, best camera, best app store, best quality, best keyboard. It has been CONCLUSIVELY proven to shave off 30 seconds off your daily chores. YEAH!!!

    GO Prosumers. May more complain to the FCC and lead these Blackberry games to their logical conclusion.
    Logical Conclusion? I'm not sure your post is logical or has a good conclusion. How does that plan even get started in your mind? Why would it work?

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    04-18-14 12:07 PM
  23. collinc93's Avatar
    Standard phone calls and text messages are unencrypted, so the carriers, and you can safely assume spy agencies (the NSA for certain) have full access to them. So would anyone who gains access to their networks.

    As far as BBM text messages go, I'll let these explain it for you:

    PIN encryption keys - Security Note - BlackBerry Messenger - 5.0, 6.0, 7.0



    And another article on this:

    FAQ: BlackBerry Messenger & PIN Messages are NOT Encrypted - BerryReview





    This part is definitely true, and a good thing, but closing and locking the windows of your house won't help you against intruders if your doors are unlocked, or even standing wide open. Real security requires ALL vectors to be protected, and no phone marketed to consumers can say that, not even BB. BES gives you a handful of relatively secure services, but even that doesn't make EVERYTHING on your phone secure.
    and yet we would rather live in a house with doors with locks that NEEDs to be opened than houses with no doors....


    on another note....I have been reading CrackBerry for QUITE a while....you are always in certain threads and I have NEVER seen you post ANYTHING remotely positive about BB.....very interesting stat but I guess it takes all kinds
    04-18-14 12:11 PM
  24. A895's Avatar
    and yet we would rather live in a house with doors with locks that NEEDs to be opened than houses with no doors....


    on another note....I have been reading CrackBerry for QUITE a while....you are always in certain threads and I have NEVER seen you post ANYTHING remotely positive about BB.....very interesting stat but I guess it takes all kinds
    You have to post something positive here about BlackBerry or else eh?

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    JeepBB and richardat like this.
    04-18-14 12:14 PM
  25. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE IS GOSSIP!
    and a "theory" is nothing more than an opinion!

    (in my opinion)
    04-18-14 12:25 PM
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