1. DamianWarS's Avatar
    With the KEY² out and it's redesigned keyboard I'm wondering how it stacks up with other Blackberry PKB devices particularly with the passport. Has anyone used both? Is the KEY² really that much better in terms of typing experience or on par with the passport?
    07-11-18 07:50 PM
  2. playfoot's Avatar
    I think it might be safe to assume the majority will opt for the "smiley keyboard" . . . .
    07-11-18 11:35 PM
  3. CBZinger's Avatar
    The priv. Yeah, I said it.
    the_boon and epoc32 like this.
    07-11-18 11:36 PM
  4. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    Nothing will ever beat the Passport keyboard. Plenty of space for typing..

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    gruv4u, elfabio80 and Qorax like this.
    07-12-18 05:28 AM
  5. DamianWarS's Avatar
    I think it might be safe to assume the majority will opt for the "smiley keyboard" . . . .
    The 9900 was released 7 years ago, since then there has been the Q series, the Classic, the Passport, the PRIV and the KEY series (namely KEYᵒⁿᵉ) all with PKBs somewhat unique to each other and none of which are the smiley form factor.

    Although I'm sure the smiley keyboard will be among some peoples favourites I think there has been enough time and devices that there could be other choices.
    07-12-18 07:59 AM
  6. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Nothing will ever beat the Passport keyboard. Plenty of space for typing..

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    Have you used the KEY²?
    07-12-18 08:00 AM
  7. johnb_xp's Avatar
    Bold 9900 was sweet, but haven't used it in a while. I love the feel of the Torch 9810 even though the keyboard was pretty small. Pearl felt good, but keyboard was really slow with the combined letters.
    Typing this out is grrrrreat on my Classic. My friend tried it out, and said he preferred his Passport...

    I gotta say, Classic or Bold take the cake for me.

    Posted with my BlackBerry Classic via CB10
    07-12-18 09:10 AM
  8. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Bold 9900 was sweet, but haven't used it in a while. I love the feel of the Torch 9810 even though the keyboard was pretty small. Pearl felt good, but keyboard was really slow with the combined letters.
    Typing this out is grrrrreat on my Classic. My friend tried it out, and said he preferred his Passport...

    I gotta say, Classic or Bold take the cake for me.

    Posted with my BlackBerry Classic via CB10
    Have you used the KEY²? I'm looking for comparisons with the KEY².
    07-12-18 11:01 AM
  9. johnb_xp's Avatar
    Have you used the KEY²? I'm looking for comparisons with the KEY².
    Haven't used KEY2, but I think the Classic is better than the KEYone. With the bigger keys, KEY2 and Classic would probably be very similar.

    Posted with my BlackBerry Classic via CB10
    07-12-18 12:15 PM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    The term "best" must be qualified. For single handed, zero error typing rate, 9900 has no peer. Imo.

    Keyboards, in themselves, cannot be isolated from the handset, itself. Tho. It's a package. Operating a PKB induces dynamics into handset chassis that must be stabilized for precise high speed use. Stability afforded by grip. Grip afforded by textures and form. Larger, slipperier, forms work ok with zero force capacitive VKB. Not so with PKB.

    I've lived with 9900, Q10, Classic, PassPort and K1. My zero error (no autocorrect) typing rate is best on 9900. Hands down. Q10 approaches 95% of 9900 type rate but suffers other productivity handicaps. My oversized Classic approaches 85%. Handicapped mostly by its size. PassPort zero error (non-swipe-direct-input) single handed typing rate approaches 50% in my right hand. Less in left.

    After nearly a year on K1, my best single handed, zero error, typing rate is really only about 1/3 that of 9900. For me. I manage a little better by resting a corner on my chest, or table top, but don't consider that a valid single handing comparison.

    Interestingly, my older, smaller, 9650 provides about 105% of 9900's typing rate. Clearly, handset size impacts PKB performance. Imo. I use thumb nails, rather than thumb flesh, for typing. Nails easily, and precisely, pin-point the tiniest of keys. A technique worth considering.

    Now, if we're defining "best" in terms of two handed use, absolute "best" is IBM model M desktop keyboard... Lol. Two handed typing performance should double single handed, to avoid diminishing return scenarios, imo. For this engineer, anyway. Doesn't double on ANY handset, for me. If I'm going to occupy both hands with typing duties, why mess with "hand" sets? Just open a laptop and get the job DONE. Imo. Lol.

    My double handed typing rate on laptop is about twice what my single thumb can achieve on even 9900. Even double thumbing my giant "hand"sets doesn't achieve 9900's single thumb performance. Let alone double.

    In case anyone is wondering, two simultaneous 9900's only improve things marginally, tho. Lol. Clearly a processing bottleneck at the neck... Haha... Lol.

    Btw, the smiling kb best accommodates natural articulation of thumb joints. For reaching far, and near, corners of the KB. Imo. Dunno bout everyone else but my old arthritic thumbs aren't mounted to linear slides. Lol.

    BB "claimed" that their "internal testing" indicated faster typing on straight KB. My "internal testing", quantified with performance data collected on 2 dozen coworkers over 8 years, solidly refutes their conclusion. Smiling KB is good for about 5% improvement. Imo. Not big, but certainly not the handicap BB tried to perpetrate.

    Given the YEARS it took to implement toolbelt/trackpad into BB10, I personally contend that abandoning toolbelt on the Q was driven more by product launch schedule than any real "better idea" supported by "internal testing". Lol. Without toolbelt to transition the curved upper row, straight KB blends better against straight bottom edge of display. Side effect was added space for screen estate. Once again, optimal typing config was compromised in pursuit of maximum screen estate. For better and worse. Imo. Fwiw.
    07-12-18 12:35 PM
  11. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    Key2, bold 9900, Passport are top three...

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-18 03:31 PM
  12. DamianWarS's Avatar
    The term "best" must be qualified. For single handed, zero error typing rate, 9900 has no peer. Imo.

    Keyboards, in themselves, cannot be isolated from the handset, itself. Tho. It's a package. Operating a PKB induces dynamics into handset chassis that must be stabilized for precise high speed use. Stability afforded by grip. Grip afforded by textures and form. Larger, slipperier, forms work ok with zero force capacitive VKB. Not so with PKB.

    I've lived with 9900, Q10, Classic, PassPort and K1. My zero error (no autocorrect) typing rate is best on 9900. Hands down. Q10 approaches 95% of 9900 type rate but suffers other productivity handicaps. My oversized Classic approaches 85%. Handicapped mostly by its size. PassPort zero error (non-swipe-direct-input) single handed typing rate approaches 50% in my right hand. Less in left.

    After nearly a year on K1, my best single handed, zero error, typing rate is really only about 1/3 that of 9900. For me. I manage a little better by resting a corner on my chest, or table top, but don't consider that a valid single handing comparison.

    Interestingly, my older, smaller, 9650 provides about 105% of 9900's typing rate. Clearly, handset size impacts PKB performance. Imo. I use thumb nails, rather than thumb flesh, for typing. Nails easily, and precisely, pin-point the tiniest of keys. A technique worth considering.

    Now, if we're defining "best" in terms of two handed use, absolute "best" is IBM model M desktop keyboard... Lol. Two handed typing performance should double single handed, to avoid diminishing return scenarios, imo. For this engineer, anyway. Doesn't double on ANY handset, for me. If I'm going to occupy both hands with typing duties, why mess with "hand" sets? Just open a laptop and get the job DONE. Imo. Lol.

    My double handed typing rate on laptop is about twice what my single thumb can achieve on even 9900. Even double thumbing my giant "hand"sets doesn't achieve 9900's single thumb performance. Let alone double.

    In case anyone is wondering, two simultaneous 9900's only improve things marginally, tho. Lol. Clearly a processing bottleneck at the neck... Haha... Lol.

    Btw, the smiling kb best accommodates natural articulation of thumb joints. For reaching far, and near, corners of the KB. Imo. Dunno bout everyone else but my old arthritic thumbs aren't mounted to linear slides. Lol.

    BB "claimed" that their "internal testing" indicated faster typing on straight KB. My "internal testing", quantified with performance data collected on 2 dozen coworkers over 8 years, solidly refutes their conclusion. Smiling KB is good for about 5% improvement. Imo. Not big, but certainly not the handicap BB tried to perpetrate.

    Given the YEARS it took to implement toolbelt/trackpad into BB10, I personally contend that abandoning toolbelt on the Q was driven more by product launch schedule than any real "better idea" supported by "internal testing". Lol. Without toolbelt to transition the curved upper row, straight KB blends better against straight bottom edge of display. Side effect was added space for screen estate. Once again, optimal typing config was compromised in pursuit of maximum screen estate. For better and worse. Imo. Fwiw.
    so you've established the best one handed devices (or your bias) and refuse to comment on 2 handed use within the established context. obviously the bigger you go the more difficult one handed use is going to be but that's not really what I asked. my question is more aimed at comparing experiences with the KEY² keyboard
    07-12-18 07:11 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    so you've established the best one handed devices (or your bias) and refuse to comment on 2 handed use within the established context. obviously the bigger you go the more difficult one handed use is going to be but that's not really what I asked. my question is more aimed at comparing experiences with the KEY² keyboard
    Ok, my apologies for confusing things. My limited time with K2 hasn't really been adequate to venture a very informed opinion. This one's not even activated on a carrier.

    Initial impressions are that K2 keys seem friendlier to my thumb nail typing technique. K1's slippery key texture tends to encourage thumb nail slip. Which reduces precision and therefore speed. For me.

    K2 is still insanely tall, imo, but seems to stabilize a little better than K1. Maybe slightly lower COG? Idk.

    My single thumb on 99 is faster than double thumb on PP or K1. If that says what you're looking to hear. ? Only had access to K2 since Tues so I'm VERY green. Time will tell.
    07-12-18 08:12 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    Ok, one more night with K2. Still steep in learning curve but can report that K2's KB experience is already surpassing K1's. That's double thumb only. No comment on single thumbing, per OP's "established context".

    Typing at least 3 pages of a 14-15 page report has my muscle memory surprisingly comfortable with the experience. Type rate on K2 is already surpassing K1. Thanks partly to less slippery surface texture of keys. Which imparts confidence inspiring "traction" for my thumb nail technique. K1's slippery finish, combined with key shape, truly were limiting my thumb nail confidence. K2 is much welcome improvement on that. Also, K2's slightly improved COG, combined with less "stubborn" key movement itself, seems to impart less "rocking couple" instability into the chassis. Adding to thumb's confidence that the target key will actually be where expected.

    In fact, before time constraints forced me to my laptop, I was actually letting go with "rapid abandon" for a couple sentences. Something I've NEVER successfully done on K1. The few times attempted on K1 left me feeling like the thing was more eager to jump from my hands than to collaborate. K2 definitely feels more eagerly collaborative than K1. If that makes sense. All double thumb. No comment on single thumb.

    Comparing with PassPort, I consider PP's keys themselves as superior shape, texture and response. But consider PP's "incomplete" kb a handicap since I don't like to "swipe type". In fact, I don't like to look at what I'm typing at all. Which is why I prefer PKB in the first place.

    Still pretty early into K2 but comparing only PP, K1 and K2, K2 is already my fave of those three. For double thumbing. Imo. No comment on single thumbing. Also, no comment on comparison with other handsets than the three mentioned.
    the_boon likes this.
    07-13-18 05:57 AM
  15. bh7171's Avatar
    The 9900 was released 7 years ago, since then there has been the Q series, the Classic, the Passport, the PRIV and the KEY series (namely KEYᵒⁿᵉ) all with PKBs somewhat unique to each other and none of which are the smiley form factor.

    Although I'm sure the smiley keyboard will be among some peoples favourites I think there has been enough time and devices that there could be other choices.
    I have the 9900, Passport and Classic (I do not have either Key phone) of my BlackBerry's since my 9000 Curve the BlackBerry Classic is by far my favorite BlackBerry keyboard of those I own and have used.
    07-13-18 01:32 PM
  16. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Ok, one more night with K2. Still steep in learning curve but can report that K2's KB experience is already surpassing K1's. That's double thumb only. No comment on single thumbing, per OP's "established context".

    Typing at least 3 pages of a 14-15 page report has my muscle memory surprisingly comfortable with the experience. Type rate on K2 is already surpassing K1. Thanks partly to less slippery surface texture of keys. Which imparts confidence inspiring "traction" for my thumb nail technique. K1's slippery finish, combined with key shape, truly were limiting my thumb nail confidence. K2 is much welcome improvement on that. Also, K2's slightly improved COG, combined with less "stubborn" key movement itself, seems to impart less "rocking couple" instability into the chassis. Adding to thumb's confidence that the target key will actually be where expected.

    In fact, before time constraints forced me to my laptop, I was actually letting go with "rapid abandon" for a couple sentences. Something I've NEVER successfully done on K1. The few times attempted on K1 left me feeling like the thing was more eager to jump from my hands than to collaborate. K2 definitely feels more eagerly collaborative than K1. If that makes sense. All double thumb. No comment on single thumb.

    Comparing with PassPort, I consider PP's keys themselves as superior shape, texture and response. But consider PP's "incomplete" kb a handicap since I don't like to "swipe type". In fact, I don't like to look at what I'm typing at all. Which is why I prefer PKB in the first place.

    Still pretty early into K2 but comparing only PP, K1 and K2, K2 is already my fave of those three. For double thumbing. Imo. No comment on single thumbing. Also, no comment on comparison with other handsets than the three mentioned.
    Thanks for entertaining my neediness and an informative comparison. To be clear the established context is comparing Blackberry devices with the KEY² and you're welcome to talk about a single hand experience. (I'm just not interested in a laptop/desktop keyboard comparison)
    07-13-18 03:26 PM
  17. playfoot's Avatar
    The 9900 was released 7 years ago, since then there has been the Q series, the Classic, the Passport, the PRIV and the KEY series (namely KEYᵒⁿᵉ) all with PKBs somewhat unique to each other and none of which are the smiley form factor.

    Although I'm sure the smiley keyboard will be among some peoples favourites I think there has been enough time and devices that there could be other choices.
    Absolutely true - there will be many opinions, but I think when, for example, the PKB failure of the Q, I still have four replacement keyboards at the ready, the unsculpted keys of the later models, the lack of a fourth row for the PP, etc. the Smiley will come out on top.

    And for me, in high humidity areas, the capacitive PKB fails to work. However, that is just me.
    07-13-18 11:57 PM
  18. richmaz3333's Avatar
    Classic

    Posted via CB10
    07-14-18 05:15 PM
  19. spantch101's Avatar
    i loved my 9900 for typing but my huge hands made for thumb collisions lol I also think the passport was a great device to type on for me with my hands . but the classic had the best overall feel and ease of use for me . I could type without looking one handed based on feel alone. also on my 9900 i had worn out multiple keypads. clicking keys turned to mush . and on my classic. i never once had trouble with any keys
    07-15-18 06:42 AM
  20. skstrials's Avatar
    I have to say that the BlackBerry virtual keyboard is pretty good right now with all the extra features.
    07-19-18 12:55 PM

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