[Motosurf]

Anyone thinks that they are a bit too ambitious? Given that their backbone is still Android, a Google product?

Posted via CB10

[DenverRalphy]

It's a fully working version of the Android OS suitable for putting on devices (e.g. phones). So, much more than just the Android runtime in BB10 which is pretty much just a glorified Android launcher.

Because it's not endorsed by Google, it doesn't include the Google services libraries and would have the same drawbacks as BB10 has when running Google Play Apps.

The Google Services (and other Google apps) aren't packaged with the ROM, but that's because those apps are and services are proprietary and not open source. However, you can download and install the gapps package separately and install them alongside CyanogenMod. While they're not packaged with the ROM, Cyanogen is eligible to run and use them.


Via Tapatalk

[DenverRalphy]

In other words, it's still Android? It's like converting a Mustang to a Shelby? Do they have their own app store and services?

Posted via BlackBerry Classic

It's still Android, just with added and/or modified features, performance tweaks, etc. They don't have their own app store and services, as you can still use the Play Store and its services provided you install the Gapps package (basically the base Google Apps like play store, search, gmail, etc... though realistically all that is needed is to install the Play Store App anymore since the rest are now available via the Play Store itself).


Via Tapatalk

[JeepBB]

While they're not packaged with the ROM, Cyanogen is eligible to run and use them.

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks!

There's an obvious follow-up question (I'm not really much of an Android guy LOL)... As, in Google's eyes, Cyanogen is a fork, why does CM have the right to install Google Play libraries and Amazon's fork can't?

[ljfong]

It's a fully working version of the Android OS suitable for putting on devices (e.g. phones). So, much more than just the Android runtime in BB10 which is pretty much just a glorified Android launcher.

Because it's not endorsed by Google, it doesn't include the Google services libraries and would have the same drawbacks as BB10 has when running Google Play Apps.

Cyanogen would actually fare much better than BB10 when running Google Play apps because it is still Android OS, just custom modded and not endorsed by Google. BB10 however is a different beast altogether and Android only exists as a runtime that eventually will have to translate all the method invocations by Android apps into something BB10 OS knows how to deal with, hence the existence of certain API subsets of Android that will never be supported by BB10 Android runtime because the concepts do not make sense in the context of BB10 OS. Hence the nonsensical saying that BB10 is 'better Android than Android' that is just another CB fantasy.

[DenverRalphy]

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks!

There's an obvious follow-up question (I'm not really much of an Android guy LOL)... As, in Google's eyes, Cyanogen is a fork, why does CM have the right to install Google Play libraries and Amazon's fork can't?

There's a criteria for custom roms/mods to meet to be eligible (I'm out and about right now, so when I get home I'll dig up the link on the Android Dev pages). But basically in a nutshell, as long as the ROM is AOSP compliant, then it's eligible.

I don't know that CyanogenMod can really be considered a Fork. They're not continuing development of their own OS and becoming independent, since with every new version of Android to be released, they start over again and add their modifications to the new versions instead of progressing development with their own fork.


Via Tapatalk

[targnik]

CM rox!!

2 devices in my home running it ^^

Z10STL100-2/10.3.1.2243

[Soulstream]

There's a criteria for custom roms/mods to meet to be eligible (I'm out and about right now, so when I get home I'll dig up the link on the Android Dev pages). But basically in a nutshell, as long as the ROM is AOSP compliant, then it's eligible.

I don't know that CyanogenMod can really be considered a Fork. They're not continuing development of their own OS and becoming independent, since with every new version of Android to be released, they start over again and add their modifications to the new versions instead of progressing development with their own fork.


Via Tapatalk

You can install google play services on Amazon fire tablets (googled it just to be sure), but I have no idea how well it works. Problem is not having the ability to install google play services, but having them installed by default. A lot of people aren't tech savy and manually sideloading the services isn't something they will do.

Also, so far only the cyanogen on the OnePlusOne came with Google play preinstalled. for every other Cyanogen rom, users must install them manually.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Do we actually know that the ROM is Android? According to some sources, it only runs Windows Phone apps. Microsoft could be working on integrating Android drivers into Windows Phone, somehow.

From what we know, and the only thing that makes sense, would be a 100% Windows 10 ROM that is designed to run on specific Android handsets (because it would need the correct drivers for the hardware). It would completely replace Android entirely when flashed on an Android phone (akin to formatting the hard drive on your Mac to install Windows or Linux instead). Microsoft is trying to give techie users a way to try out Windows Phone on hardware they already own, which is easier (for techie people) to swallow than buying a new phone altogether. Plus, anyone who can take their Android phone and flash Windows onto it could just as easily flash the factory Android ROM back on to that same phone if they didn't like Windows.

Anyway, the Windows Phone 10 ROM would obviously not have any Android app support whatsoever, Google or otherwise. The whole point of MS investing the money into making WinPhone ROMs for Android phones is to entice people over to the Windows ecosystem.

[DenverRalphy]

From what we know, and the only thing that makes sense, would be a 100% Windows 10 ROM that is designed to run on specific Android handsets (because it would need the correct drivers for the hardware). It would completely replace Android entirely when flashed on an Android phone (akin to formatting the hard drive on your Mac to install Windows or Linux instead). Microsoft is trying to give techie users a way to try out Windows Phone on hardware they already own, which is easier (for techie people) to swallow than buying a new phone altogether. Plus, anyone who can take their Android phone and flash Windows onto it could just as easily flash the factory Android ROM back on to that same phone if they didn't like Windows.

Anyway, the Windows Phone 10 ROM would obviously not have any Android app support whatsoever, Google or otherwise. The whole point of MS investing the money into making WinPhone ROMs for Android phones is to entice people over to the Windows ecosystem.

Not to mention that the average Joe SmartphoneUser would probably never do it, unless they'd taken steps to unlock their bootloader. Which isn't exactly a Download and Install operation. You really have to go out of your way to do it.

Via Tapatalk

[thatplaybookguy]

Isn't that what the turtles fell into?

[Troy Tiscareno]

There's an obvious follow-up question (I'm not really much of an Android guy LOL)... As, in Google's eyes, Cyanogen is a fork, why does CM have the right to install Google Play libraries and Amazon's fork can't?

While Cyanogen is an Android fork, almost all iterations of it are Google-compliant Android forks. There are a number of specific criteria to be Google-certified, and those criteria are updated on a regular basis as tech and Android itself progresses, but given that they're starting with an Android base, it's not that difficult (well, it probably is, but it's not by any means impossible) to meet those requirements.

Remember that CyanogenMod is based on AOSP code, but modified to add additional features or make certain features optional instead of always on or always off. Each version starts off as pure Google code and gets modified from there. Many of the modifications are things like "un-hiding" features that are present but normally hidden to prevent the average user from breaking something, or hidden because the carriers don't want their users to have those options - either because they don't want to have to provide a higher level of support or because the carrier wants to sell them a different solution (think "tethering" as an example).

Google Apps aren't normally included in those builds, but it's super-simple to download and install them in nearly all CM versions, and nearly everyone does.

[dbmalloy]

Do not get this fixation with all things Android when it comes to BB users... Must be a case of I cannot have the "whole" thing so I want what I do no have.. Why these users do not just by a nice shiny new Sammy and be done with it... is beyond me.....Will not matter, if Chen is successful with the software services development, devices will become a sideline at best or distant memory at worst...

[Soulstream]

Do not get this fixation with all things Android when it comes to BB users... Must be a case of I cannot have the "whole" thing so I want what I do no have.. Why these users do not just by a nice shiny new Sammy and be done with it... is beyond me.....Will not matter, if Chen is successful with the software services development, devices will become a sideline at best or distant memory at worst...

Because now BB10 is half Android with the runtime and the Amazon app store installed by default.

[Ment]

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks!

There's an obvious follow-up question (I'm not really much of an Android guy LOL)... As, in Google's eyes, Cyanogen is a fork, why does CM have the right to install Google Play libraries and Amazon's fork can't?

Compatible devices for Google must pass a variety of requirements from being able to use all APIs to being able to support Developer Tools. List here in the Compatibility Device Document . There is the Compatibility Test Suite program that automatically tests for all of these functions. One reason BB10 would fail is because of its sandboxing of the runtime which denies system level access functions for its security model.

Not sure if Amazon's fork passes the technical part of compatibility, but even if it does Google also enforces other requirements such 'Powered by Android' logo on boot, default Chrome browser, placement of Google apps on the home screen. These are also things that would fail BB10.

[bh7171]

I definitely don't want any additional Android OS creep into my BlackBerry's. I purchased a newer high end Samsung Tab Pro tablet and Android, in my humble opinion and experience, has NOTHING on BlackBerry 10 but the GP store. It's no where near as fluid and or smooth. If people give BlackBerry 10 a shot they would not miss their other devices. I would snatch up a 10 inch BlackBerry tablet running BlackBerry 10 in a heartbeat if available.

Z30-simply the best touch BlackBerry 10.3.1.1784

[Prem WatsApp]

Because now BB10 is half Android with the runtime and the Amazon app store installed by default.

... and "they" won't stop until it's full Android, haha... ;-)

...if you follow the multitude of threads here on CB.
8-o

�   Passposted while waiting for the Zzzzzlider....   �

[MarsupilamiX]

Again, the sticking point is apps. If the new CM doesn't have Google Play, it's going to be an uphill slog to get people to consider switching to it, as Amazon and BlackBerry have found out. And in terms of image, I don't think people will feel all warm and fuzzy about an Android that's in bed with Microsoft and BlackBerry instead of Google.

It's Android and we are talking custom ROMs here.
I am sure that you could patch the play services onto the CyanogenMod, without it being Google certified first.

Or am I mistaken?

[Soulstream]

It's Android and we are talking custom ROMs here.
I am sure that you could patch the play services onto the CyanogenMod, without it being Google certified first.

Or am I mistaken?

Yes you can. They don't even need any patching, just install them. Google Apps - CyanogenMod

[Yatezy]

Yes you can. They don't even need any patching, just install them. Google Apps - CyanogenMod

Usually flashing the GApps package is exactly the same as flashing the rom. Flash the rom then flash the GApps straight after it. Takes seconds.

Not to detract from the original discussion but ROMs based on OEMs skins don't need to flash GApps, they come preinstalled. It's only AOSP builds that need the extra flash. Is there is any reason for this?

[ubizmo]

It's Android and we are talking custom ROMs here.

No, we're not, in this context. CM11s is not a custom ROM on my OnePlus One. It's the OEM ROM that the phone came with, with locked bootloader.

The point about Cyanogen, the company, is that they are attempting to move out of the "hobbyist" custom ROM niche and into the OEM niche. They've done so with OnePlus, Oppo, and Micromax, although they've now split with OnePlus. They are able to do so entirely at the pleasure of Google, but Google can decide to play hardball at any time, and if they do, any phones that ship with CM won't be able to have Google apps. The Google apps are not open source, and Google can, if they like, put legal pressure on those distributing them through back channels.

At the moment, Google is still approving CM versions of Android, complete with Google apps, but that can change in a heartbeat, if Google isn't happy with Cyanogen's dalliance with Microsoft. That won't affect the hobbyists, but it'll affect the ordinary users who buy phones with CM pre-installed, who want no part of rooting, bootloader unlocking, sideloading, etc.

[MarsupilamiX]

No, we're not, in this context. CM11s is not a custom ROM on my OnePlus One. It's the OEM ROM that the phone came with, with locked bootloader.

The point about Cyanogen, the company, is that they are attempting to move out of the "hobbyist" custom ROM niche and into the OEM niche. They've done so with OnePlus, Oppo, and Micromax, although they've now split with OnePlus. They are able to do so entirely at the pleasure of Google, but Google can decide to play hardball at any time, and if they do, any phones that ship with CM won't be able to have Google apps. The Google apps are not open source, and Google can, if they like, put legal pressure on those distributing them through back channels.

At the moment, Google is still approving CM versions of Android, complete with Google apps, but that can change in a heartbeat, if Google isn't happy with Cyanogen's dalliance with Microsoft. That won't affect the hobbyists, but it'll affect the ordinary users who buy phones with CM pre-installed, who want no part of rooting, bootloader unlocking, sideloading, etc.

Yes Sir, you are correct.
Had no intention to deny that OnePlus' version is a certified one. I was under the impression that we were debating if Custom ROMs (and CM is a custom ROM for a lot of Android devices) have access to the Google Services and stores, and as far as I know, most custom ROMs have at least one way to get those things.
(On a side note: It shouldn't be hard to unlock the bootloader on the OnePlus.)

I was also under the impression that Google would have a hard time to enforce a "no Google services rule", when private users flash their devices with alternative ROMs, instead of the cell phone manufacturer doing it for the customer (be it though a contract with Google, CM having a contract with Google and therefore in extension the manufacturer, or a local Android manufacturer, not caring about international trade laws, as they only sell in domestic territory, where it's basically impossible to enforce them).

I could be wrong on the second part though.

[ubizmo]

(On a side note: It shouldn't be hard to unlock the bootloader on the OnePlus.)

Not too hard; I've managed it, and I'm no Android wizard.

My comments were just generally on the OP's question, "What are your thoughts on Cyanogen?" My thoughts can be summed up as, I think they may be steering themselves into a tricky place as they try to move from a community of enthusiasts to a profitable company.

[MarsupilamiX]

Not too hard; I've managed it, and I'm no Android wizard.

My comments were just generally on the OP's question, "What are your thoughts on Cyanogen?" My thoughts can be summed up as, I think they may be steering themselves into a tricky place as they try to move from a community of enthusiasts to a profitable company.

Oh, well then I fully agree!
Will be an interesting experiment to witness

(Didn't one of the CM founders go to Samsung to work on TouchWizz? Or am I remembering something wrong?)

[DenverRalphy]

(Didn't one of the CM founders go to Samsung to work on TouchWizz? Or am I remembering something wrong?)

Yeah he did. But if I recall correctly, he didn't last very long at Samsung. I don't recall the reason for his departure though.