02-24-14 06:27 AM
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  1. Zenith_Inferno's Avatar
    I'll just try to answer the questions.

    1.Obviously the company is in a poor state. Hard to keep track of at this point between some people blowing it out of proportion and others underestimating the problems. Seems to me, not good, but not beyond all hope. As far as a salesperson is concerned, if they want to push other brands that's their business. If they prefer android, and know more about it, they could more easily sell a customer on it. Still the situation isn't really going to be helped by telling customers Blackberry doesn't exist anymore, and I'm somewhat opposed to blatant lying. Perhaps if Blackberry representatives went out to the dealers. Tried to sell the salespeople on the phones. Maybe that would help, as long as the store still offers Blackberry in the first place.

    2. I hope for the future that Blackberry continues to produce phones. In addition to diversifying and having a more stable set of products utilizing QNX and their business services. That way they could have the cash flow necessary to properly fund product development and advertising for phones. In the end though, I want to know in the future there will be a phone I'd like to buy. I'm not saying Blackberry's the best, but there currently isn't really any other phone I'd want to own. I'd still prefer the return of the trackpad, but my tastes differ from most people.

    I don't care much about the stock, and if they move on to another product and get out of phones, its nice that they continue on, and I'd rather another Canadian company not go under, but it doesn't really matter much to me. I would certainly stop paying attention or caring if they stopped making phones.
    richardat and JeepBB like this.
    02-23-14 10:45 PM
  2. Skyforever's Avatar
    Some of us choose to be optimistic, others not. Life is like that. Personally I think it's great to have a place where we can learn how best to use our preferred O.S. Others come here to express sometimes in great detail how the glass is half empty. What matters most is are you enjoying your life? Including your phone experience. Whatever happens, happens, but how you look at your life right now makes a difference. That is why I come here to help share the love, so much more than the concerns. May BlackBerry live long and Prosper. I choose BlackBerry.
    02-23-14 11:03 PM
  3. Morty2264's Avatar
    Sales reps have been bothering me for some time. There are of course the few amazing ones that sold me BlackBerry phones with genuine smiles and helpful information; but I of course remember the ones who laughed at my phone choice and make me feel like crap.

    Of course, people are allowed to dislike and even hate BlackBerry. Differences are what makes us all unique and special. But there is a fine line between being respectful of other people and being offensive. If you don't like my BlackBerry, well, it's a good thing that I bought it and not you! LOOL. (By the way, the "you" is a general statement, not directed at anyone).

    As far as the company, I don't know much about their financial state of affairs or anything related to that, but Chen is doing some good work as far as stepping up to the plate with the T Mobile issue and (from what I've read here) trying to get BlackBerry back on track. Rome wasn't built in a day. We can't expect miracles overnight.

    What I don't understand is what the "BlackBerry naysayers" really benefit from being like this. If BlackBerry flops, how does it benefit them? So they rub it in our faces for all of five minutes and then they just go about their daily lives? Seriously dudes, if you're against it, fine. That's cool. But it's not like you have anything to gain from them going belly-up. Also, we've all spent hard-earned money on these devices, and I'm telling you all right now, if the roles were reversed and Apple wasn't doing well, I would NOT be laughing in people's faces and rooting for Apple's demise all over the forums. I have good friends who use iPhones. They'd lose their money. I'd feel bad for them.

    I think the "smartphone wars" are really getting out of hand now.

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-14 11:07 PM
  4. xBURK's Avatar
    Interesting thread.
    I don't agree with most of the OP's views, but I respect how he would feel this way.
    Frankly, it's much easier to have no faith in BlackBerry after 2013. Not a real shocker.

    Salespeople: Sure, salespeople can recommend anything to anyone. Not a problem. I believe Crackberry members get upset because when it comes to inquiring about BB10 etc , many sales reps flat out lie and degrade you to your face. This is not a small issue that happens once in awhile. If that were the case, you would not see so many threads about it. I've elected to ask for a manager twice in this regard. Not because of an ignorant sales rep, but because someone was trying to make me feel stupid for even asking about BlackBerry. It's wrong, end of story.

    How I feel about the company: Easy....I still believe BB10 is worth fighting for and it has a better chance of survival than just three short months ago. Are they still clinging on to dear life...of course.

    Take out three equations and BlackBerry would have been in a better position right now.
    1. The perception problem was not tackled before the BB10 launch.
    2. The perception was made worse by an operating system that was not ready for a prime time at launch.
    3. The negative perception magnified when the USA did not get their product until two months after the official launch in New York. After that, 2013 had a negative steamroller effect. Could not be stopped unless something drastic happened. Luckily it did.

    Even with all of this, it doesn't change the fact that BB10 is an operating system that is still worth fighting for. Most Crackberry members are extremely intelligent. I can't see this many smart people sticking up for something just for the fun of it. (If you call that fun?) Yes, 2013 did not bold well and that's just a fact. Another fact, 2014 is already looking more positive in every regard. Last year I found it hard to find a positive story about BlackBerry. Now, it's the complete opposite.

    I say BlackBerry deserves to succeed in every way possible. All the hard work by BlackBerry employees should not go to the wayside because of mismanagement and false claims out of pure ignorance. This is an important year for bb. So far so good. That's more than BlackBerry fans could hope for at this point.



    Posted via CB10
    02-23-14 11:17 PM
  5. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    1 . Fact there is no support of BlackBerry by Carriers especially US

    2 Fact employees have been steering clients away.

    3.Fact Media/Wall Street have been shorting the Device/stock

    4.Fact the devices were released late,with an unfinished OS.

    5.Fact the return of devices was high due to unfinished OS and so called learning curve

    6.Fact BBM and cross-platform was fudged.

    7 .Fact BlackBerry cannot compete with the likes of Android and Apple ,the former having huge access to revenue derived from advertising and the latter built an empire off iPod . BlackBerry can't afford the subsidizing that Google pumps into Android

    8.Fact BlackBerry devices are the Best in terms of security

    9.Fact the BlackBerry 10 OS is the best on the market like it or not.

    10. Fact Perception of BlackBerry has been tarnished by responding slowly to an ever changing market that s called Technology.

    11. Fact Chen has indicated his plans for restructuring the company. Focus on software cross-platform and continued focus on Government / Business Enterprise, currently he is also addressing the low end market with introduction of Jarkarta devices

    12.Fact The stock riding a wave currently for multiple reasons including ,that he Chen, has stated his intention of providing things mentioned in
    11, Apart from that the stock received a bounce from the acquisition of whatsapp by Facebook which clearly indicated that BlackBerry Stock was/is terribly undervalued .

    12. Fact BlackBerry will take time to profitability ,this has been vocalized by Chen,whats he doing to achieve this? Restructure, Resize, Recalibrate. Refocus.

    These things take time to be addressed it's not done overnight slowly perception will be changed, what's going to be needed?

    1. Next Generation of Devices needs to be ahead of the pack, I'm speaking about reliability particularly battery life, specs,the OS is already there ,just fined tune needed

    2. Marketing Marketing.

    3. Serious discussion needs to take place with BlackBerry and the Carriers, if the next Generation of devices deliver, this should be easy to accomplish.

    4.More Marketing.








    Posted via CB10
    02-23-14 11:26 PM
  6. xBURK's Avatar
    Fact: I like "crackbrry fan's" post.

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-14 11:38 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It's borderline silly to hold any entity other than BBRY more responsible for heir current state. The carriers? They are easy to crack, simple to the point of monotony: they push what makes them profitable. If BB10 had gotten the traction we hoped for, folks like Legere would where BB10 T-shirts 24-7.

    Fact is, some strategic mistakes were made; hindsight is 20/20. Some (like the runtime) further tie up any progress that could be made IMHO, but that is a discussion for another thread. I am one of the minority that is crazy enough to think that Thor was that bad; I think he did what e was asked to do in the midst of an irreparable slide... but again, that's another thread.

    So, we have the "now." Maybe it's sentimentality at work, but I think the consumer space is best served by a healthy 3rd/4th option. It keeps the leading OSes on their toes, and, frankly, if well managed going forward, I think BB10 has a shot.

    But the key is that it has to be well managed. A retreat and realignment might be in order; maybe the rumored focus on Enterprise for a season is the best option. The ecosystem has to be improved. Mindshare has to be created. Heck, I loved BBRY seeding that device to the relatively small blog Dad Does... smart.

    The one thing I think BBRY has to understand is that despite what the fans say, it isn't slaespeople that are causing its demise. It's one single fact: for a lot of people (too many people) other OSes, including legacy BBOS, are better options at this time.

    If BBRY wants to stay in the consumer space, it needs to figure out why.
    02-24-14 12:10 AM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    1. The perception problem was not tackled before the BB10 launch.
    2. The perception was made worse by an operating system that was not ready for a prime time at launch.
    3. The negative perception magnified when the USA did not get their product until two months after the official launch in New York. After that, 2013 had a negative steamroller effect. Could not be stopped unless something drastic happened. Luckily it did.
    Fantastic points that I think bear repeating.

    For me, it ultimately boils down to one thing: the missed opportunity to respond effectively to the original iPhone (The Storms don't count). Even after that original iPhone, they had two or three iterations to figure something out, or prevent iOS from winning the app wars. I remember when we used to mock iOS users for not having a good selection of third-party utilities LOL.

    Android (and eventually WP) had the benefit of seeing where the wind was blowing.

    As i always ruefully add, I mocked the iPhone as well, so it was a good thing I wasn't the CEO at the time.
    xBURK and pantlesspenguin like this.
    02-24-14 12:18 AM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    And in other news perhaps the Foxconn Jakarta just might be a switch hitter.

    http://www.telecomlead.com/smart-pho...latform-69780/


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-24-14 12:19 AM
  10. richardat's Avatar
    richardat - an excellent post (I may not agree with some, most or all of it, but an excellent post nevertheless).
    If this helps you get the answers you are looking for, it will be awesome.
    I will put in some points (won't be brief, seeing as how no one is on this topic)

    (A) - Sales people
    You started with the salespeople (not that they were your targeted victims), and it's true that most, if not all, salespeople are 'sales' people. They need to move stock first, and I don't mean that helping a customer comes second. Put yourself in their shoes - a customer comes in - asks for an iPhone, you say "Have you tried the new BB10 phones?" - Customer thinks you're someone who is not
    1) in sync with his/her needs/wants
    2) aware of what is currently popular in the market.

    Customer moves on - you lose a sale - your shop loses a customer. Once this trend repeats itself often enough, you realize its better to push the popular phone. NOW, when a customer comes in asking for a BB10, your default reaction is to guide them to what you think they really 'need'. Not your fault, it's an anomaly, deal with it.

    As a salesperson who is dealing with 10s of customers (if not 100s) every day, I would rather give them whats easy than spend a lot of time, since I can cover more people in the same amount of time left to me.

    (B) Public Perception
    As someone who has absolutely no stock in the company, I think it's best I do not comment on the stock side of things. I do however think that if the stock rises, there is something good happening, and somewhere in there, all of it is coupled with everything else (Device Sales, Market Performance, Stock Price, AND Public Perception) Public perception is a serious issue. Let's remove the word BB from the phones. If an OS came out which had all the features that 10 currently has, and it was named just that - 10, it would do much much better than BB10 did. Why? Because it did not have the word BB in it. Over the past year, there have been at least 5-60 people who have asked to see my Z10, and wondered if it truly was a BlackBerry! Their perception was this way because of the abysmal marketing by RIM (then BBRY), and I don't blame them. I have, over the months, spoken to many of them and have converted some to BB10. So, in the end, you are right, they sucked at marketing it.

    (C) Your current analysis
    Ze OS
    As someone who has been using the BB10 OS since it has launched, I am a part of the few million that you have mentioned (we're talking a few million WORLDWIDE). I am proud to say that am part of a group that was in this because of loyalty to a brand and stuck around because the OS is fabulous. If you didn't like what the OS had to offer, when it was launched, you must have gone over to another OS - good for you. If you still stuck around (maybe because buying an expensive Z10 set you back like it did me), you may have looked to other options of getting the "apps" on to your phone. Oh, don't get me wrong, these 'should' have been available, but if they weren't and I found a way, I TOOK IT!!! I have never side-loaded or apk-loaded any app that should have been paid (because I knew I wouldn't be able to pay for it). Also, since so many developers are connected with app stores, I am sure they are aware of what OSs their apps are being loaded on, if they ask publicly, I will uninstall the app (that's just me).

    Ze Devices
    First the Z10, then the Q10 andthe Q5, and then finally the Z30. When will it end? I am sure, there are a lot of people who have absolutely no love for any of these devices, and will find as many reasons for hating these devices, as I will for loving them (Well, maybe not the Q5 ). The devices serve a market (they do, trust me) or even a few million would not get sold. These buyers were not looking for a Z99 or a Q888 (although I was unhappy with the 16 GB device memory myself) but they were looking to experience the new BB OS.

    Ze People
    When Thorsten was here, he was praised as the saviour, someone who would wave a magic wand, he could do no wrong. And as you said, he got done what he had on his to-do list. Cut costs, roll out BB10. The CMO was the one of the people who messed up big time, BB10, when it released, was at a level that it could have kicked ***, but somehow it was never showcased. Carrier relations (dunno who handles that even today) was also something that should have been a prime focus. Even after the launch, things could have been done that were not. Agreed with you on these points.
    Now with Chen, you say that the same thing is being repeated and I say NO! If you apply some common sense and logic, you will see that things are not being tackled like they were before. Will this new approach work? I don't know! Should I place it in the same shelf as Thorsten's efforts? I don't think so.
    See, the approaches taken by both of them were different. Thorsten replaced 2 people and users were expecting a lot from him. Chen has replaced Thorsten and a lot many people from the old board are not there anymore.
    I think the perspective you should take should be that of a cautious user (if you use the products, that is). There are changes, they are good, and they will take time.
    I don't expect a miracle overnight, nor do I subscribe to the "Tiny Company" scenario that many are propagating here on the forums.

    This too shall pass, the devices are still selling, the company is not, and we shall be victorious.
    I congratulate you on bringing a view on these forums that many may not like (I haven't read your previous posts, so cannot comment on the bias many claim you have); but you have to understand something. You are on CrackBerry.com, whether you like it or not. There are people who really really love BlackBerry phones and the company, whether you like it or not. They were here when this started and will be here tomorrow and the day after as well.

    Your opinion may be shared by a few, but it's a few, not the majority.
    Live long and prosper (*looks for the spock emoticon*)


    LP&HG
    Thanks for the reply! A lot of what you wrote was more "personal" than I was looking for, but I still appreciate the time you put in, and of course, as all people of intellect, the Trek reference.

    A couple quick notes: You seem to place a very large portion of the blame on marketing/public perception. I'm not one of the people who felt that a primary problem - I had felt all of last year that it was, at worst, a secondary problem. That is a lengthy discussion in itself, (a related argument I've posted about many times is what I feel is the myth of Apple success = marketing)....suffice it to say for now, that we disagree on this point, though your opinion is shared by many. In any case however, here and NOW, it certainly is a major problem that would need be overcome. BB10 was a last shot in that way, and many of us said that well before launch...in fact Heins said it himself. Where they are now....its' not good.

    Second, I am not saying that history is repeating in the sense that Heins = Chen....certainly I would say that is true of people's reactions here.....the fact remains that Chen hasn't really presented a substantial path, and we will have to wait and see if he has some secret formula that can get them out of this. The repeat in history is that all he has to do is say "Well....BB is the best, and we need to focus on our strengths, and work our way back one step at a time....that's a hard road but what makes it possible is having the absolute best products on the market - the most secure, the most innovative, and the most productive. What we need to do is reach out to new markets, but not neglect our core base, we got away from our roots, we need to get that back! Even though we will be going back to basics, we will still be utilizing fresh eyes, and fresh ideas to make sure people never forget that we are the tool they grew up, we are the tool they made their careers on, and we are the tool they can always come back to." etc....and people here will proclaim he "gets it", has a "plan", is doing all the right things, understands what went wrong, is changing everything. For me personally, I have no strong feelings toward Chen - good or bad, so far....there really isn't much to judge. I think he's come into a no-win scenario for phones, but I don't know that's his ultimate plan, and in any case, it's just a business challenge/big paycheck for him, so I don't too bad for him ;-)
    02-24-14 01:11 AM
  11. richardat's Avatar
    Fantastic points that I think bear repeating.

    For me, it ultimately boils down to one thing: the missed opportunity to respond effectively to the original iPhone (The Storms don't count). Even after that original iPhone, they had two or three iterations to figure something out, or prevent iOS from winning the app wars. I remember when we used to mock iOS users for not having a good selection of third-party utilities LOL.

    Android (and eventually WP) had the benefit of seeing where the wind was blowing.

    As i always ruefully add, I mocked the iPhone as well, so it was a good thing I wasn't the CEO at the time.

    Xburk, Trelawrence, I agree with much of what you both wrote. I don't, as you two may well know, agree with the marketing/perception being a primary problem....though it hasnt' gotten worse and worse.....the last year....well it pretty much sealed perception....well..come on, who's going to be secure in buying a phone that was searching for a buyer publicly and couldnt' find one....and now that the retailers etc. are pulling out.....well, yeah...it's a HUGE problem now.

    Back last year, I said, real marketing would be great, as you two know, I made no bones about BLASTING the launch, alicia keyes, the superbowl comercial, boulben....from day 1.....funny....that stance is more popular now ;-) But, to be honest, at least early in the year, they had a real chance in terms of perception. Carriers were able and willing, and gave BB a lot of attention and marketing, the public, while not brimming with enthusiasm or interest, were at least by and larger open to a brand new BB revolution. I think if I could make three simple revisionist changes it would be:

    1.couldn't give two hoots about most apps at launch......meaningless, especially when the numbers are so huge, and your competitors are still so far ahead. Just wanted them to say: AT launch, right NOW, we will have the top 30-50 apps from ios and Google available for download.....heck...even top 20. That alone would have garnered them better reviews, and general positivity on the app front. I wrote about this at the time...man...I would have told those execs....GET THE TOP 30 APPS, NO MATTER WHAT. Don't care if we spend half our war-chest, dont' care if we have to send teams to them to do all the work on 5 year contracts with no-strings attached - just GET them for LAUNCH.

    2.put in multiple alarms......and all the other little niceties.....speed dials......etc. Yeah...no reboot problem would have been nice, but I actually don't think it was a huge issue in terms of sales....actually, the fact that they didn't sell very many probably helped with that. make it POLISHED. Yes....there will always be bugs....but make them apple class minimal, and no glaring omissions of obvious features.

    3.actual phones delivered within a week of launch....almost everywhere.

    With those three things alone, even if NOTHING else had changed, (still boulben, still ridiculous marketing) I believe we would have had at least some reasonable chance of sitting here saying: well they sold 20-40 million - they aren't a contender, but they are the #3, and, with any luck, BB11 will build on this.

    Throw in some gee-whiz-bang visually palpable stuff - like some of the things from the TAT demos'.....I'd say there would have been a 75% (insert my usual disclaimer about percentage being meaningless in this kind of statement), we'd be at that decent place, with a opening going forward.
    xBURK, JeepBB, coldRooster and 1 others like this.
    02-24-14 01:34 AM
  12. richardat's Avatar
    I'll just try to answer the questions.

    1.Obviously the company is in a poor state. Hard to keep track of at this point between some people blowing it out of proportion and others underestimating the problems. Seems to me, not good, but not beyond all hope. As far as a salesperson is concerned, if they want to push other brands that's their business. If they prefer android, and know more about it, they could more easily sell a customer on it. Still the situation isn't really going to be helped by telling customers Blackberry doesn't exist anymore, and I'm somewhat opposed to blatant lying. Perhaps if Blackberry representatives went out to the dealers. Tried to sell the salespeople on the phones. Maybe that would help, as long as the store still offers Blackberry in the first place.

    2. I hope for the future that Blackberry continues to produce phones. In addition to diversifying and having a more stable set of products utilizing QNX and their business services. That way they could have the cash flow necessary to properly fund product development and advertising for phones. In the end though, I want to know in the future there will be a phone I'd like to buy. I'm not saying Blackberry's the best, but there currently isn't really any other phone I'd want to own. I'd still prefer the return of the trackpad, but my tastes differ from most people.

    I don't care much about the stock, and if they move on to another product and get out of phones, its nice that they continue on, and I'd rather another Canadian company not go under, but it doesn't really matter much to me. I would certainly stop paying attention or caring if they stopped making phones.
    Have no idea who you are, but you are the only one to directly answered my questions. Exactly what I asked for. Quite simply: you the man.
    02-24-14 01:37 AM
  13. BBFunGuy's Avatar
    1 A truly honest sales person might say, 'I would like you to buy this phone, because I will receive a greater commission for selling it to you.'
    2 I dont have stocks in BlackBerry, so our futures are not so intertwined that I need invest in hope, as I am something different, content.
    02-24-14 01:52 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Rising stock doesn't equal selling phones though. The stock could go through the roof tomorrow and you know what the most likely headline would be?

    'BlackBerry stock goes through the roof, customers still not buying BlackBerry smartphones'


    Does it help with perception? Sure, kinda. But it took years for BlackBerry to get in its current state and BlackBerry going to have to work hard to get lost customers back. Arguing with T-Mobile isn't gonna win a bunch of people back, it's continuing on building a great OS (which BlackBerry 10 has become) and telling people about it through advertising and marketing, something which BlackBerry is doing very little of right now.

    Build up the userbase again, get the developers interested through numbers and keep going, by the time we see something new, they should already be 10 stages ahead working on the next thing. Far too long BlackBerry sat on their hands and basically gave up the market to Apple, Android even now MS.

    They wasted too much time on BBOS and even worse NOT ENOUGH time on taking the things from BBOS that were great and putting them into BlackBerry 10. BlackBerry 10 now, is pretty much a shadow of its former self and it's bringing back some of what they lost in the transition but they lost more importantly people in that transition by basically putting out a 'wire frame' of an OS to begin with. Die hard users have bailed.

    The worst thing about BlackBerry 10 now is the plain and simple fact they're not telling people how great it is. Back in the day they used to tell EVERYONE about all the features, sadly those features were things many people never cared about but that's not the point. The point is they did it loudly, and proudly. Now, even though I see advertising in my area, the cries of BlackBerry not doing enough self-promotion is rampant through these forums.

    They need to get out there and tell people how great the OS is, loudly and proudly. I want to be so sick of hearing about BlackBerry 10 that when a commercial comes on I'm tempted to change the channel. I wanna ride the bus and see ads everywhere, I wanna see signs outside of carrier stores, I wanna pick up magazines and see ads in there. When I'm drunk at a far and go to take a leak, I wanna see an ad on those displays they have for drunk people to stare at.
    They are telling people, just not consumers, it's clear as day they're moving to enterprise only.

    It has already began, in UK 3 Mobile has no BB10 devices for sale, Orange and O2 only sell the Q5, Vodafone has scrapped the Z10.

    I've said it a while ago but nobody believed me, BB are moving away from consumers, slowly but surely.




    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    JeepBB and richardat like this.
    02-24-14 02:16 AM
  15. Bla1ze's Avatar

    I've said it a while ago but nobody believed me.

    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    No one believes anything you say cause you're chock full of BBOS crazy.
    JeepBB, richardat and techvisor like this.
    02-24-14 02:44 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No one believes anything you say cause you're chock full of BBOS crazy.
    Me and 3 Mobile UK apparently, they still sell BBOS but no BB10s lol


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    02-24-14 02:45 AM
  17. badiyee's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with the OP's post.

    Iregardless whether BlackBerry remains a big volume player or a small niched company, it does not matter on how salespeople would decry it as a "going to be dead company by next Monday" (or insert your timeline pun) and therefore you should get a Samsung / Nokia / Moto X, etc. If its there, it will be there. People will still buy it if it fills their need. They don't even need a "BB11" on a paradigm of BB7.1 to BB10.0. It would still have smelled like dead fish when people behave like OP. Not forgetting to mention when this forum was alight in proclaiming the coming of BB10 there were people who were already screaming "RIM is DEAD!", and even making bold claims as "BB10 won't even make it past the starting line!", or "dead on arrival", etc. The rhetoric of this all, they (BlackBerry) invent , innovate as much as they can, they can even go ahead and rebrand themselves into whatever, but people will still think their name stinks. There is no "overnight success" answer to this. Not in BlackBerry's current form, unless they've got at least 10-20 billion to spend right off the bat, and incubate themselves for another 1-2 years.

    They had teams like TAT, and so forth, but for whatever reasons the management did not want to "unleash" them because they just wanted BB10 to remain "business-like". I think Gary Klessen's words (or was it another Gary?) epitomizes the entire thing by saying BlackBerry creates the palletes for the artists, its up to the artists to use whatever that is available to them. They (BlackBerry) should have unleashed every talent and used their own tools. But they believed that the 3rd party developers would grab the tools and hit the floor running. I blame the management in BlackBerry. However, is it all entirely BlackBerry's fault? No. I saw it with my own eyes here where the carriers screwed, double crossed BlackBerry on top of their offerings because it wasn't BlackBerry was in their interest, it was whatever leverage they can use to get more customers, even if it meant betraying BlackBerry by using its own tools and expertise and then kicking them in the nuts after BlackBerry's expertise has been spent. So is the salesman part to be blamed? In my eyes, darn right yes.

    But irregardless how the salespeople (ignorant or not) dumps all the negativity into BlackBerry, I think BlackBerry's prerogative isn't looking for the miracle "overnight answer". Comeback doesn't take 1-2 years. It will take probably even a decade or two. But I don't care, unless BlackBerry fails to deliver a phone that fits my criteria. Has there been a slow down? Yes. Has BlackBerry "lagged behind"? Yes. But all that is nothing compared to how BlackBerry hasn't been improving the core strengths that it had and what it could leverage. But I will continue to look at BlackBerry and buy BlackBerry for a good reason, their products work for me and I love it.

    Secondly, will BlackBerry continue to exist? It is not an easy question to answer, but I have an easy answer for that.

    1. They did not announce that they are foreclosing today, or in the near future. (no announcements)
    2. They are still making products, hit or miss. If I like it I'll buy it.
    3. CB is already in the dumps expecting people to be civil to trolls (I use this term very explicitly, just to point out trolls, not human beings) who behave that they have every right to behave as they are (ranging from so called frustration of not getting a up to date product, or was a developer so I got bragging and ranting rights, hiding behind the farce of neutrality [we all know there's no such thing as neutrality] or any other reasons just to behave like a self-justified anti BlackBerry/CrackBerry crusader/messiah/savior) Will CB survive? Maybe in another form. The CB I knew back in 2011 and the CB I now know in 2014 are two very different CrackBerry.com altogether, good and bad.
    Omnitech, RazrRob and richardat like this.
    02-24-14 03:23 AM
  18. Omnitech's Avatar
    Lately many threads here demonizing salespeople for recommending other brands (contrary to popular implication - they can't MAKE you buy anything) and calling for attacks on salespeople.

    How interesting. You have a link to the thread and posts where people have been calling for "attacks on salespeople"?


    A brand new guy was brought in, but he hasn't shown any plan whatsoever

    Hilariously ridiculous.

    Have you been attending the board meetings? Executive planning sessions?


    Of course, they did the same thing with Heins, who similarly said nothing of vision or value or substance

    Pure hyperbole.


    So there is the harsh realty as i see it.

    I always figured you had some kind of crazy glasses you were looking through.


    My hope for the future? I have none. I think BB is already long-gone. BB is a name-only, and whatever it is that gave it meaning, is now gone (or rapidly disappearing eg. the legacy phones).

    Yet you seem compelled to post tl;dr rants on Crackberry like a moth is drawn to the light.

    Seems like a strange pursuit, for someone who is utterly convinced the company is washed-up.
    02-24-14 03:27 AM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    ICrackberry is a dangerous and wonderful place. It shields us from the real world as we all like blackberry here. At the same time it shields us from the reality of Blackberry's situation

    How can that be, when there are so many kind souls willing to expend their valuable time day-in and day-out "educating" us poor ignorant serfs about why they've concluded that the company is "...long-gone, a name-only, and whatever it is that gave it meaning, is now gone"?


    We owe those kind and devoted souls a debt of gratitude for keeping us informed!
    02-24-14 03:31 AM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    Rising stock ... Does it help with perception? Sure, kinda.


    Oh yeah, and that little minor detail about raising millions of dollars of capital that the company can use to improve their competitive position.



    ...the cries of BlackBerry not doing enough self-promotion is rampant through these forums.

    There's a lot of crying about a lot of things in these forums. A large percentage of it is not worth the electrons used to transmit it.



    I want to be so sick of hearing about BlackBerry 10 that when a commercial comes on I'm tempted to change the channel. I wanna ride the bus and see ads everywhere, I wanna see signs outside of carrier stores, I wanna pick up magazines and see ads in there.



    Now that's one big fat pipe-dream right there.

    Personally I couldn't give a leap if BlackBerry were the #1 or #2 vendor - which is basically where they would have to be, to be in a position to generate that kind of advertising onslaught.

    All I care about is that they survive and keep supporting and improving the product. TBH I'd rather they NOT be #1 in the consumer marketplace.
    02-24-14 03:39 AM
  21. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Now that's one big fat pipe-dream right there.

    Personally I couldn't give a leap if BlackBerry were the #1 or #2 vendor - which is basically where they would have to be, to be in a position to generate that kind of advertising onslaught.

    All I care about is that they survive and keep supporting and improving the product. TBH I'd rather they NOT be #1 in the consumer marketplace.
    Maybe that's what they'll use those millions of dollars for? Ehhhhhh... probably not but I hope they at least don't spend it on another Alicia Keys. I'd love to know how much money was basically lit on fire there. At least with the Superbowl ad we have a general idea of how much was spent.
    02-24-14 03:46 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    I've said it a while ago but nobody believed me, BB are moving away from consumers, slowly but surely.

    We don't need a soothsayer to read BlackBerry Ltd's own press releases and statements from its management and board that they have moved their focus into enterprise and "prosumer".

    That does not necessarily mean that that product mix will be the focus forever.

    Personally I think they have NO other choice than to do something like this. No matter what anyone thinks about the history or current strategy, BlackBerry Ltd. simply does not have the resources to pursue the mass consumer market on a global basis at this time.

    What they have to do now is try to make money as quickly and steadily as they can, which will give them more options down the road. One of those options could be re-entering the mass consumer market on a global scale. Chen has signed a 5-year manufacturing agreement with Foxconn. That is not the hallmark of a company that is permanently throwing in the towel on the handheld device market.

    My personal opinion is that BBM is, BY FAR, the best opportunity BlackBerry Ltd. has at this particular moment. If they play their cards right, it could actually save the company.

    And based on recent announcements, I see significant evidence that they are doing exactly what they need to be doing in that regard. I can already see the evidence of Chen's regime having a positive influence on the software development side of the company. This is an excellent development.
    02-24-14 04:05 AM
  23. sixpacker's Avatar
    First off I pretty much agree will all you say.
    1.the state of the business is dire and hasn't improved a jot under Chen. The numbers will in fact stink even more.
    I don't understand the East markets so maybe there's hope there.
    In the West I don't understand why they've just lumped it all together and treated it as a single market. It's not. Anyway, regardless of what they say they're retreating from consumer into a tiny enterprise niche.
    2. As an ex employee I am really disappointed they blew a great opportunity with bb10. I still know many people working there who are waiting for the chop. They are not impressed with Chen. I care about these people but not bbry per se.
    I sometimes dream of an exciting bb11 relaunch but it just ain't gonna happen.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    richardat and techvisor like this.
    02-24-14 04:10 AM
  24. Omnitech's Avatar
    Maybe that's what they'll use those millions of dollars for? Ehhhhhh... probably not but I hope they at least don't spend it on another Alicia Keys.

    I'm with ya 1000% on that one. I think they should ask for their money back, personally.
    02-24-14 04:11 AM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    1.the state of the business is dire and hasn't improved a jot under Chen. The numbers will in fact stink even more.


    ROFL yeah well unless Chen is G-D herself, you don't take over the CEO position in a company in BlackBerry's condition and in the span of 4 months turn it into a money-printing machine.
    bungaboy and xBURK like this.
    02-24-14 04:15 AM
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