[richardat]

I really do not think that BB11 is the answer. People are just looking for something that lacks bugs for all their core activities - especially with respect to e-mails.

I was wrong in thinking that Android apps were the interim answer. I think now that BB should be advertising security . I mean better security over android devices . Basically they have to advertise that they a better alternative to Android.


Better phones - yes agreed. They need a better spec Z30 and a bigger screen Q30 ( a slider would be welcome ) as well as an upgraded Z10 fixing its many flaws.

As far as carrier support. I think if they had a better device(s) carriers might give them another chance.
The Q30 strategy is to get the legacy users on side - major dumb move in getting rid of the trackpad.

Lastly, we have to see how their Foxconn strategy pans out. It might really help ... or not.

Fair enough....Um....regarding "BB11"...well....the mobile world moves very very fast. Even if BB10 were a huge success, I feel BB11 would need be far along in development at this point. But also, it's almost impossible to get marketing traction, userbase traction, when a product did that poorly. It just becomes.....forgotten at best.....there comes a time when, even if magic patches fix every criticism, that it's too late - and your competitors have already moved on to the next generation. Having said that, since mobile is becoming "mature"....maybe...maybe....so far the new ios/android hasn't been mind-blowing, so maybe. I'm the last to advocate the MS just keep throwing it out, till you get one that works a bit, but,when things go that bad, I think you have no choice.

I agree with what you are saying, it just sounds like you think with android run-time, patches, etc, they can mount a slow fight. I just don't think that can happen - but I appreciate your opinion! :-) First one - well reasoned out. Thanks.

[Daytona123]

Whew! Just read all that. Much to read.

No, nothing of value to contribute. Just passing through.

[lynxs_claw]

I would have liked to have seen a world in which BlackBerry wasn't continuously derailed by the Media and Wall Street. A world in which sales people and carriers gave consumers what they want instead of coercing them into products they feel they should have even to a point of lying to them. I wonder in that world, how badly off BlackBerry would really be?
I think these stupid and unnecessary tactics used against BlackBerry pisses off us fans and those that feel that BB10 can not only compete against the big 2 but is truly a better product.
Maybe the OP can understand it now.

Posted via CB10

[grover5]

What do I want? Shorter posts from richardat

Posted via CB10. Join C001A8DC6 for bento-inspired lunch ideas

From speechless to a 10 page essay. I agree.

Posted via CB10

[richardat]

I understand what you said just fine. I agree. Your questions are relevant.

I do agree with you. The company is in a rough the state. Hell I'll say it. They are in a terrible state. But they still have time to get better. That's why I said they are doing better so far. I work for a company. I own company stocks. That certain company has not been doing well. But analysts have stated that they expect the company to do well this year and that the stock will rise. Stock is based off of a company's worth and their profit. If it goes up they are doing well. If not they are not doing well. BlackBerry stock has gone up. Even if it's a little, it's a start. It still has time to fail. I'll give you that.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

Cool. Thanks for the good reply.

Yes, stock is often based on company health...but it's prone to big fluctuations,let alone little ones, based on market forces, "animal spirits' - seeming whims, and various manipulations, and trading strategies. Happens to everyone...Apple...BB...everyone. I don't think Chen has provided anything of substance YET (not to say he won't ever) that points to any better outlook - hey, he himself says we're in for a BAD ride for quite a while. So I doubt very much this stock bump is due to him except maybe - "hey, he cant' do worse than the last guys...and at the worst, he can probably liquidate the company well".

In any case, fair enough, we both agree rough state (vary in degree obviously), but you think they can still do it...I really disagree...but, time will tell, and I appreciate your honest opinion, and that's the thing...can at least totally see where you're coming from, even if I think you're way too optimistic!

[jon4400]

It's all about the brand's image, if BB10 phones were made by another company that was just starting up, sales would have been a whole lot better.

Posted via CB10

[Bla1ze]

I said "selling devices" not "selling anything". BlackBerry has software. They have hardware. QNX is a great technology. They have other ways of making a profit than off of phones.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

We just prefer they make phones and sell those as well lol

[ray689]

These posts are way too long. What is this thread about? Can't tell from the title either.

Posted via CB10

[coldRooster]

Cool. Thanks for the good reply.

Yes, stock is often based on company health...but it's prone to big fluctuations,let alone little ones, based on market forces, "animal spirits' - seeming whims, and various manipulations, and trading strategies. Happens to everyone...Apple...BB...everyone. I don't think Chen has provided anything of substance YET (not to say he won't ever) that points to any better outlook - hey, he himself says we're in for a BAD ride for quite a while. So I doubt very much this stock bump is due to him except maybe - "hey, he cant' do worse than the last guys...and at the worst, he can probably liquidate the company well".

In any case, fair enough, we both agree rough state (vary in degree obviously), but you think they can still do it...I really disagree...but, time will tell, and I appreciate your honest opinion, and that's the thing...can at least totally see where you're coming from, even if I think you're way too optimistic!

I think the big thing with Chen is that he has a plan. He knows what th company needs to do, and how to do it. Like you stated. He also knows that they're in for a bumpy ride. This is how he has contributed something of substance to BlackBerry and continues to. Heinz didn't seem to have a plan. "Here is BB10. It's awesome. Let's make a lot of devices cause well sell a lot" didn't work for him or the company. The Foxconn deal Chen has made is an excellent move for the company. I'm not optimistic in a naive way. I'm not as hard core of a crackberry as a lot of people are. I'm just at home on an Android or windows as I am blackberry or apple. I just think there are many people that think because a company is going through a rough spot they are doomed. Again, Apple was in this exact spot some years back. And now look where they are.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

[bradu1]

A healthy conversation is what you make it. I disagreed with coldRooster but also agreed with him as well. So, you don't like Richards post? State your case and move on. Richard stated his and asked for opinions on it, it's how a discussion forum works. He didn't attack anyone, he didn't call you out by name, he didn't say anything disparaging about you and he made some VERY valid claims about how carriers handled BlackBerry and offered some suggestions for the betterment of the company as a whole.

If you don't like the conversation, control it by offering better input yourself. Even now, the conversation in this thread has changed and it had very little to with my presence, (forgive me Richard and coldRoooster, I'm using you as an example here). coldRooster thought Richards post was a troll but he now has actually agreed with some of what Richard has said.

Your issue isn't trolls, it's that you dunno how to engage without becoming enraged.

Attachment 250455

I'm not enraged. I'm happily sitting here watching zombies. Love zombies! But I had this post submitted by several people to my channel, so came to look. But my channel doesn't do this stuff anymore. Wish that little shrugging shoulders BBM emoticon worked in here.

Oh well, I don't have anything new to add to this conversation. I've had it entirely too many times in here over the past year. Have fun Bla1ze. I'm sure it will end well.

Posted via CB10

[coldRooster]

We just prefer they make phones and sell those as well lol

I most certainly do as well. But look at what apple has done. The apple TV. Your iPhone. Your ipad. Your imac. They all integrate together. BlackBerry could do that. Use QNX for house technology. Use it for cars like they are. Use it for everyday things that people have to interact with. Integrate BlackBerry phones with it and boom. Increased sales. *DISCLAIMER* this is a theory of course. and a tough one.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

[Bbnivende]

Maybe I should throw in the towel.

I see where WP8 is on the cusp of an interesting strategy.

Microsoft Reveals Windows Phone 8.1 Details | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

BB's Foxconn phone can not match this strategy.

[Bla1ze]

Maybe I should throw in the towel.

I see where WP8 is on the cusp of an interesting strategy.

Microsoft Reveals Windows Phone 8.1 Details | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

BB's Foxconn phone can not match this strategy.

Wait.. what? Run on existing Android hardware?

Edit: Oh.. nvm. Re-read it. They mean like Samsung can use the same design for the S5 and essentially make a WP device out of it as well. So two devices, two different OS', same design. Lower cost I suppose.

[mikeo007]

Wait.. what? Run on existing Android hardware?

I'm assuming they mean the hardware platforms that the manufacturers are using for their android devices. I don't think MS is going to let the end users install WP 8.1 on their old android phones.

Edit: damn your ninja edit :P

[early2bed]

One of the dynamics that isn't fully taken into consideration, here, is how long it takes for market perception to affect sales volume, especially in the enterprise sector. Even if large enterprise customers take into consideration what a new CEO is saying and doing, chances are that a decision was made and a process was started many months ago. Same goes for the carrier stores. There's a pretty good chance that the Titanic has already suffered the fatal hit and that what happens in the next two hours and forty minutes is a done deal.

Also, Chen, unlike any of his predecessors, isn't a phone guy. and neither are his recent management hires. That makes me think that they will be getting out of the hardware business ASAP. The recent spat with T-Mobile demonstrates that Blackberry has absolutely no pull with carriers anymore. There's no way you can slow down a sales decline without carrier partners.

[Bla1ze]

I'm assuming they mean the hardware platforms that the manufacturers are using for their android devices. I don't think MS is going to let the end users install WP 8.1 on their old android phones.

Edit: damn your ninja edit :P

Ya, that would have been crazy. Though thinking about it now, maybe not such a bad idea LOL. Imagine if you could take BB10 and load it onto 'any' device without purchasing a new device. Dual boot Android and BB10 but the BB10 side can also talk to the Android side, so instead of running an Android emulator, you could actually fully run Android or BB10. I'm just day dreaming now of course but that would be sort of different.

[mikeo007]

Ya, that would have been crazy. Though thinking about it now, maybe not such a bad idea LOL. Imagine if you could take BB10 and load it onto 'any' device without purchasing a new device. Dual boot Android and BB10 but the BB10 side can also talk to the Android side, so instead of running an Android emulator, you could actually fully run Android or BB10. I'm just day dreaming now of course but that would be sort of different.

It may not be as far off as we think. There are tablets now that dual boot W8 and Android. If Blackberry were to "pull a WebOS" with BB10, I could see it happening. Although I honestly don't see them opening the current source, not when QNX is gaining traction in other areas.

Still, if BB were to release a phone with a separate partition for a second OS, it could definitely make for an interesting phone.

[Bla1ze]

I most certainly do as well. But look at what apple has done. The apple TV. Your iPhone. Your ipad. Your imac. They all integrate together. BlackBerry could do that. Use QNX for house technology. Use it for cars like they are. Use it for everyday things that people have to interact with. Integrate BlackBerry phones with it and boom. Increased sales. *DISCLAIMER* this is a theory of course. and a tough one.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

That's what I find awkward about some of what BlackBerry says. They say they're big on integration and being everywhere a screen is available (or at least working towards that) but it's not actually happened yet. They have some stuff in place, HDMI, Miracast, WiFi Direct and it's great that I can do those things and they're based on open standards, it's not as shall we say easy as it should be.

They really need to get a handle on how all that works and talks to each other. Granted, it's a bit harder for them because they don't offer an Apple TV and the PlayBook is all but dead but still, there's no reason they couldn't come up with other ways. Why is there no dongle running QNX that I can cheaply purchase to connect to my non-miracast TV that allows me to mirror my content yet? (Think Chromecast)

It annoys because I know they could do it, it just seems that they don't want to do it because it's not really 'worth it' as of yet.

[anon6040766]

A healthy conversation is what you make it.

If you don't like the conversation, control it by offering better input yourself.

Attachment 250455

Just got to stop for a minute and say Bla1ze, you're the man. You always seem to step in and shed a different perspective or at least push things back on track. Play on playa...keep it up!

Posted via my BlackBerry Q10 or Z30 on VZW from Philly

[richardat]

I think the big thing with Chen is that he has a plan. He knows what th company needs to do, and how to do it.

Does he? Maybe. I certainly don't know what it is, and I don't think you do either. Put it this way, can you say out loud something specific like: Chen is going to sell/provide ________, his competition will be -__________. The products he will to use to do this are ________. This will sustain a company of size _____________. I can't! I could play some guessing games and fill in blanks...but it would only be a guess, I really have no idea....as far as I know, none of us do. He may well have a plan...but he hasn't said it.

The only concrete product he has mentioned is Jakarta - so that's legitimate point. Whether that can turn around BB10, or what the strategy is beyond Jakarta is really questionable. My guess is, Chen isn't sure either...but you have to do something...and as options go, I think it's one of the best of a sketchy bunch! I advocated for ultra cheap blowout BB10 phones a year ago, to take advantage of what was a healthier developing nations base back then, with the sole goal of getting user base, and selling where BB10 would be seen as way ahead of the curve, not a catch-up. I also worried that cheap android phones (and now wiphones) would make it tougher in the future.

Mind you, Chen has no obligation to share this with anyone.

Like you stated. He also knows that they're in for a bumpy ride. This is how he has contributed something of substance to BlackBerry and continues to. Heinz didn't seem to have a plan. "Here is BB10. It's awesome. Let's make a lot of devices cause well sell a lot" didn't work for him or the company. The Foxconn deal Chen has made is an excellent move for the company. I0

MMM.....OK. I think Heins did have a lot more to the plan than that...but that's another story. Um......basically at this level: let's make q10 and z10 and sell a lot VS let foxconn make Jakarta and sell a lot. Doesn't seem much different qualitatively as a plan, but I'm sure both had more to their plans.....yet I think both were faced extreme uncertainty and some realization that they were in a huge hole, and that options were quite limited for both.

If I were to speculate, Heins real plan was: release bb10, hope that a miracle happens and that BB faithful come back in droves, momentum builds and then we get apps BUT, alternately, hide problems as long as possible and look for buyout/partner etc.

I think Chen's plan is: release Jakarta hope a miracle happens and that BB faithful go to it in droves, momentum builds, and we get numbers from those countries, and try to find business strongholds to cling too.....mitigate bleeding as much as possible, shrink company, explore software/services, and look for buyout/partner etc.

[richardat]

I most certainly do as well. But look at what apple has done. The apple TV. Your iPhone. Your ipad. Your imac. They all integrate together. BlackBerry could do that. Use QNX for house technology. Use it for cars like they are. Use it for everyday things that people have to interact with. Integrate BlackBerry phones with it and boom. Increased sales. *DISCLAIMER* this is a theory of course. and a tough one.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

it's a good theory. The problem is, can BB execute this? Big problem....many problems, many players in the field....many deals.....many technologies....and some of them are giants. BB is stretched, and..
.well ...I doubt they have much pull at all, given their very public problems. Would have been easier for them back when they influence and leverage.

Honestly, I think that dream, is just way beyond them at this point. They'd go bankrupt long before getting a vision like that off the ground.

[rcs36]

Does he? Maybe. I certainly don't know what it is, and I don't think you do either. Put it this way, can you say out loud something specific like: Chen is going to sell/provide ________, his competition will be -__________. The products he will to use to do this are ________. This will sustain a company of size _____________. I can't! I could play some guessing games and fill in blanks...but it would only be a guess, I really have no idea....as far as I know, none of us do. He may well have a plan...but he hasn't said it.

The only concrete product he has mentioned is Jakarta - so that's legitimate point. Whether that can turn around BB10, or what the strategy is beyond Jakarta is really questionable. My guess is, Chen isn't sure either...but you have to do something...and as options go, I think it's one of the best of a sketchy bunch! I advocated for ultra cheap blowout BB10 phones a year ago, to take advantage of what was a healthier developing nations base back then, with the sole goal of getting user base, and selling where BB10 would be seen as way ahead of the curve, not a catch-up. I also worried that cheap android phones (and now wiphones) would make it tougher in the future.

Mind you, Chen has no obligation to share this with anyone.



MMM.....OK. I think Heins did have a lot more to the plan than that...but that's another story. Um......basically at this level: let's make q10 and z10 and sell a lot VS let foxconn make Jakarta and sell a lot. Doesn't seem much different qualitatively as a plan, but I'm sure both had more to their plans.....yet I think both were faced extreme uncertainty and some realization that they were in a huge hole, and that options were quite limited for both.

If I were to speculate, Heins real plan was: release bb10, hope that a miracle happens and that BB faithful come back in droves, momentum builds and then we get apps BUT, alternately, hide problems as long as possible and look for buyout/partner etc.

I think Chen's plan is: release Jakarta hope a miracle happens and that BB faithful go to it in droves, momentum builds, and we get numbers from those countries, and try to find business strongholds to cling too.....mitigate bleeding as much as possible, shrink company, explore software/services, and look for buyout/partner etc.

But then again, that's just your opinion. Or guess..or whatever else you'd like to call it.

Until we see "a plan"...we won't know what it is. so speculate all you want, Richard...as far as I'm concerned, your thread has no value. Now, back to using my BlackBerry for more important s***

[coldRooster]

Does he? Maybe. I certainly don't know what it is, and I don't think you do either. Put it this way, can you say out loud something specific like: Chen is going to sell/provide ________, his competition will be -__________. The products he will to use to do this are ________. This will sustain a company of size _____________. I can't! I could play some guessing games and fill in blanks...but it would only be a guess, I really have no idea....as far as I know, none of us do. He may well have a plan...but he hasn't said it.

The only concrete product he has mentioned is Jakarta - so that's legitimate point. Whether that can turn around BB10, or what the strategy is beyond Jakarta is really questionable. My guess is, Chen isn't sure either...but you have to do something...and as options go, I think it's one of the best of a sketchy bunch! I advocated for ultra cheap blowout BB10 phones a year ago, to take advantage of what was a healthier developing nations base back then, with the sole goal of getting user base, and selling where BB10 would be seen as way ahead of the curve, not a catch-up. I also worried that cheap android phones (and now wiphones) would make it tougher in the future.

Mind you, Chen has no obligation to share this with anyone.



MMM.....OK. I think Heins did have a lot more to the plan than that...but that's another story. Um......basically at this level: let's make q10 and z10 and sell a lot VS let foxconn make Jakarta and sell a lot. Doesn't seem much different qualitatively as a plan, but I'm sure both had more to their plans.....yet I think both were faced extreme uncertainty and some realization that they were in a huge hole, and that options were quite limited for both.

If I were to speculate, Heins real plan was: release bb10, hope that a miracle happens and that BB faithful come back in droves, momentum builds and then we get apps BUT, alternately, hide problems as long as possible and look for buyout/partner etc.

I think Chen's plan is: release Jakarta hope a miracle happens and that BB faithful go to it in droves, momentum builds, and we get numbers from those countries, and try to find business strongholds to cling too.....mitigate bleeding as much as possible, shrink company, explore software/services, and look for buyout/partner etc.

Of course it's a guessing game. No CEO is going to come out and explain a business plan. You could use that for any company. They won't state what they plan to do specifically. It's bad for business. I agree with you on the cheaper phones.

And Foxconn was hired specifically to adjust output figures based on what they were doing. Foxconn is a great company for that. Heinz went off of what they expected and they put made a huge amount of bb10 phones that they had to write off because they guessed wrong. That's why Foxconn is there.

And I think BlackBerry real problem is that of marketing. There was none. And they marketed to the wrong people. I think you might be parallel to if not correct on Chen's plan. Although I would say the buyout is a last resort deal. I have stated multiple times, I hope they explore other ways of making money. But they do need to shrink their losses.



Posted via my beautiful Z10

[ghundiraj]

Lately....

richardat - an excellent post (I may not agree with some, most or all of it, but an excellent post nevertheless).
If this helps you get the answers you are looking for, it will be awesome.
I will put in some points (won't be brief, seeing as how no one is on this topic)

(A) - Sales people
You started with the salespeople (not that they were your targeted victims), and it's true that most, if not all, salespeople are 'sales' people. They need to move stock first, and I don't mean that helping a customer comes second. Put yourself in their shoes - a customer comes in - asks for an iPhone, you say "Have you tried the new BB10 phones?" - Customer thinks you're someone who is not
1) in sync with his/her needs/wants
2) aware of what is currently popular in the market.

Customer moves on - you lose a sale - your shop loses a customer. Once this trend repeats itself often enough, you realize its better to push the popular phone. NOW, when a customer comes in asking for a BB10, your default reaction is to guide them to what you think they really 'need'. Not your fault, it's an anomaly, deal with it.

As a salesperson who is dealing with 10s of customers (if not 100s) every day, I would rather give them whats easy than spend a lot of time, since I can cover more people in the same amount of time left to me.

(B) Public Perception
As someone who has absolutely no stock in the company, I think it's best I do not comment on the stock side of things. I do however think that if the stock rises, there is something good happening, and somewhere in there, all of it is coupled with everything else (Device Sales, Market Performance, Stock Price, AND Public Perception) Public perception is a serious issue. Let's remove the word BB from the phones. If an OS came out which had all the features that 10 currently has, and it was named just that - 10, it would do much much better than BB10 did. Why? Because it did not have the word BB in it. Over the past year, there have been at least 5-60 people who have asked to see my Z10, and wondered if it truly was a BlackBerry! Their perception was this way because of the abysmal marketing by RIM (then BBRY), and I don't blame them. I have, over the months, spoken to many of them and have converted some to BB10. So, in the end, you are right, they sucked at marketing it.

(C) Your current analysis
Ze OS
As someone who has been using the BB10 OS since it has launched, I am a part of the few million that you have mentioned (we're talking a few million WORLDWIDE). I am proud to say that am part of a group that was in this because of loyalty to a brand and stuck around because the OS is fabulous. If you didn't like what the OS had to offer, when it was launched, you must have gone over to another OS - good for you. If you still stuck around (maybe because buying an expensive Z10 set you back like it did me), you may have looked to other options of getting the "apps" on to your phone. Oh, don't get me wrong, these 'should' have been available, but if they weren't and I found a way, I TOOK IT!!! I have never side-loaded or apk-loaded any app that should have been paid (because I knew I wouldn't be able to pay for it). Also, since so many developers are connected with app stores, I am sure they are aware of what OSs their apps are being loaded on, if they ask publicly, I will uninstall the app (that's just me).

Ze Devices
First the Z10, then the Q10 andthe Q5, and then finally the Z30. When will it end? I am sure, there are a lot of people who have absolutely no love for any of these devices, and will find as many reasons for hating these devices, as I will for loving them (Well, maybe not the Q5 ). The devices serve a market (they do, trust me) or even a few million would not get sold. These buyers were not looking for a Z99 or a Q888 (although I was unhappy with the 16 GB device memory myself) but they were looking to experience the new BB OS.

Ze People
When Thorsten was here, he was praised as the saviour, someone who would wave a magic wand, he could do no wrong. And as you said, he got done what he had on his to-do list. Cut costs, roll out BB10. The CMO was the one of the people who messed up big time, BB10, when it released, was at a level that it could have kicked ***, but somehow it was never showcased. Carrier relations (dunno who handles that even today) was also something that should have been a prime focus. Even after the launch, things could have been done that were not. Agreed with you on these points.
Now with Chen, you say that the same thing is being repeated and I say NO! If you apply some common sense and logic, you will see that things are not being tackled like they were before. Will this new approach work? I don't know! Should I place it in the same shelf as Thorsten's efforts? I don't think so.
See, the approaches taken by both of them were different. Thorsten replaced 2 people and users were expecting a lot from him. Chen has replaced Thorsten and a lot many people from the old board are not there anymore.
I think the perspective you should take should be that of a cautious user (if you use the products, that is). There are changes, they are good, and they will take time.
I don't expect a miracle overnight, nor do I subscribe to the "Tiny Company" scenario that many are propagating here on the forums.

This too shall pass, the devices are still selling, the company is not, and we shall be victorious.
I congratulate you on bringing a view on these forums that many may not like (I haven't read your previous posts, so cannot comment on the bias many claim you have); but you have to understand something. You are on CrackBerry.com, whether you like it or not. There are people who really really love BlackBerry phones and the company, whether you like it or not. They were here when this started and will be here tomorrow and the day after as well.

Your opinion may be shared by a few, but it's a few, not the majority.
Live long and prosper (*looks for the spock emoticon*)


LP&HG

[rcsgolf]

I don't see ios or android going above and beyond with new innovations(when is my phone going to drive my car!) like you said about bb11...my bb10 device can doas much or more than either platform(better file manager, connect to my computer at work to edit files and save on both devices without a third party app, hdmi out(ios), screen sharing on bbm) to name a few of the many...don't get what the other phones have and I have tried them so I know!