[chain13]

lol... I'd be the last person to venture predictions about what "most" people might do. lol Few have considered ME "normal" since my second "retirement". if ever. lol.

I CAN say that I've worn out 3-4 X the number of KB's on my old Bold this past year than any previous "normal" year. Thanks greatly to covid realities like assisting some clients to re-purpose existing, and stand up new, production lines into producing products they'd never dreamed of a year ago.

Mostly from home and/or from "covid safe" motorhome/mobile service facility. Staged very near some plants. But also for communicating coordination with plant personnel while maintaining extreme "social distance" on noisy plant floors. A use case "made up" just for single thumbing 9900 while simultaneously operating and or tuning various machines with the other hand. Capabilities easily leveraged, when available. imo.

Also, tho, I've been typing manuscripts, assembling manuals and fielding much Q&A using 9900 as part of personnel training activities. Training naturally conducted "virtually" over more macro means, but supported greatly with Agent99's usefully "made up" skill sets. lol. Training that was once typically conducted in person, on site, in groups. pre covid, that is.

Few "normal" ppl even suspect, tho. So... lol

LOL yeah it sounds made up..
What, you typed your manuscript using your BOLD? ������

[chain13]

As things turned out, at least one, maybe two, PKB designs ultimately matured certain performance characteristics well enough to justify users generating a use case of their own around those characteristics. That happens with each step of human innovation. Someone invents, develops, or stumbles into, an innovative technique or tool. Then someone else finds or creates innovative ways to leverage the innovation. "Off label" uses the original innovator never envisioned. Chicken or egg? Lol.

it's my personal contention that Dakota (9900) designers painstakingly evolved their "innovation" around user feedback generated from within a given use case. An enterprise use case that was once more popularly expected. Then came byod glass and popular use cases then developed (made up?) around that innovation.

Wait.. What? PKB design ultimately matured... That happens with each step of human innovation.. As long as I could remember, invention of pkb were just some differences in sizes, sculpts, feels, etc etc. All the system of what we called "smartphone" back then������
I'm not trying to justify the glass. But since the first iphone came out with what they call "mac into a phone", it changes whole smartphone industry. With their vision to bring the desktop level apps into a phone, instead of made up, I would say it opens up more possibility for productivity, use case etc. It blurs the line between what enterprise and personal can do with a phone.

[idssteve]

LOL yeah it sounds made up..
What, you typed your manuscript using your BOLD? ��

YES! On my BOLD! Hard as it may be for YOU to believe, the only thing I type faster on is a desktop/laptop... And I rarely have a desktop/laptop as readily available as this BOLD is. I'm typing this over breakfast this instant. Right hand is fully occupied with operating a fork. The wife permits NO space for a desktop at mealtime. Lol. I have yet to look toward my Bold since starting this "manuscript"... Lol. Trust me, I'll keep THIS "manuscript" short. I DO have other things to do. Lol. Much of my posts in CB community have historically been "warm up" exercises over breakfast in preparation for a full day of typing. You guys get to endure my morning warm up. Lol.

(Just now peeked at handset... New message... Bold's custom vib & led already informed me who... Needed to read what... )

Sometimes I must wonder if you and I are speaking similar enough dialect? My use of "manuscript" is as "rough draft", original-concept-to-sentence composition (made up?), before proof, edit, and publication. Frequently, but not always, ultimately proofed, edited and published at a desktop. This "manuscript" for this post might not even get proofed before publishing. Lol.

Much of my "manuscript" generation has been, this past year since "retirement", instruction and training materials for some of the designs I've been responsible for. Some of those designs will likely outlive me. They've already outlived my career. My fourth career, actually. Lol. Client personnel, former coworkers, engineering colleagues, etc are best served to understand what AND why of those designs. Drawings and prints can't paint as complete of picture as a thousand words might. Lol. Frequently, details get recalled throughout a normal day that might get forgotten by the time I get to a desktop/laptop. That has NOT gotten better with age. Lol. Agent99 manages to be readily available for a great deal of my thought to thumb "manuscript" generation.
A skill set you might find useful someday?

[idssteve]

Wait.. What? PKB design ultimately matured... That happens with each step of human innovation.. As long as I could remember, invention of pkb were just some differences in sizes, sculpts, feels, etc etc. All the system of what we called "smartphone" back then��
I'm not trying to justify the glass. But since the first iphone came out with what they call "mac into a phone", it changes whole smartphone industry. With their vision to bring the desktop level apps into a phone, instead of made up, I would say it opens up more possibility for productivity, use case etc. It blurs the line between what enterprise and personal can do with a phone.

Yes, imo, iPhone truly derived out of inspired innovation. RIM's Bold really was not so much "innovation" (note the quotes) as it was evolution. Bold, 9900 in particular, represents the ultimate product of quite a few years of hard won, trial and error, hands on feedback guided, evolution. A pretty complete inverse approach from Steve Job's inspired innovation. (Note, no quotes)

"Differences in sizes, sculpts, feels, etc etc." Were pretty maturely tested and refined into Bold. 9900 in particular. BBOS itself hearkened from a space where software's mission was to support hardware. Pretty much opposite of where Apple took things and Google followed. I included quote marks around RIM's "innovation" because the collection of evolutionary "innovations" really weren't revolutionary. Mostly evolutionary.

A key distinction Mike likely misunderstood when reading "The Innovator's Dilemma"... Lol. Mike was NO Steve Jobs! Which was why his BB10 "revolution" fell so flat. RIM's single strength was in its hard won real world hands on feedback guided experience. Experience Mike strategically abandoned by so thoroughly sequestering qnx/BB10 development from BBOS experience. Because of a silly book he'd MISread? Lol.

[the_boon]

LOL yeah it sounds made up..
What, you typed your manuscript using your BOLD?

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Who would bother typing this much volume on glass?

[idssteve]

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Who would bother typing this much volume on glass?

I've really been trying to keep posts brief... Truly an addiction... Some sort of addictive neural transmitter from thumb?? (Actually thumb nail) Lol.

All I can say to disbelieving "slab phreeks"... "It's a Blackberry thing! You wouldn't understand...". HeeHee...

[the_boon]

I've really been trying to keep posts brief... Truly an addiction... Some sort of addictive neural transmitter from thumb?? (Actually thumb nail) Lol.

All I can say to the disbelieving "slab phreeks"... "It's a Blackberry thing! You wouldn't understand...". HeeHee...

It's simple:

Buttons/switches/levers provide satisfaction when actuating.

Tapping a flat piece of glass doesn't.

[idssteve]

It's simple:

Buttons/switches/levers provide satisfaction when actuating.

Tapping a flat piece of glass doesn't.

Read about learning styles and some of this debate makes more sense. Some folks are tactile. Others visual. Etc, etc...

Vibratory feedback is also essential to MY learning style. Which is why I HATE shoulder rests on my violins. Simply looking at thumb typing on this Bold has sometimes induced a dizzying vertigo. Color me odd... Lol.


Human design is subject to production variation! !! Lol.

[manny2]

It's simple:

Buttons/switches/levers provide satisfaction when actuating.

Tapping a flat piece of glass doesn't.

That goes to show you how much people want their screen space, that is why only the slider can succeed going forward.

[idssteve]

That goes to show you how much people want their screen space, that is why only the slider can succeed going forward.

Been toying with a "gifted" Priv. Still too steep in learning curve to quantify performance numbers, yet. Still can't call it a single hander but innovate new techniques for it every day, it seems. Feels like there's potential within grasp... If I can just push thru that first harmonic critical at about 40wpm. A coworker did and chassis' dynamic response fell together surprisingly well at about 60wpm for her. There IS hope. Just more practice... And maybe a grasp aiding contraption?

Will say I can't imagine EVER retracting the keyboard. Maybe movies or something? Too bad its pkb shortcut & speed dial isn't better implemented, imo.

[bakron1]

I still switch between my Key2 and my iPhone 12 Pro. I still love a good PKB and I find myself still capable of typing on one proficiently.

I am hoping the Blackberry 5G device becomes a reality and I will buy one the day it’s released. Should be an interesting 2021. We need some new hardware and positive news after the last 10 months.

[manny2]

Also people dont want standout too much when it comes to phones, sure it attracts attention but people are conformist. A larger key phone may work but it would be.weirdly long putting people off even more than just a keyboard. The slider is weird as well but pretends to be normal in its closed format as a slab

[conite]

Also people dont want standout too much when it comes to phones, sure it attracts attention but people are conformist. A larger key phone may work but it would be.weirdly long putting people off even more than just a keyboard. The slider is weird as well but pretends to be normal in its closed format as a slab

As I've shown before, without bezels you can put a Priv-sized screen on a KEY-type device that is only 10mm taller than a KEY².

[bakron1]

Also people dont want standout too much when it comes to phones, sure it attracts attention but people are conformist. A larger key phone may work but it would be.weirdly long putting people off even more than just a keyboard. The slider is weird as well but pretends to be normal in its closed format as a slab

I would disagree with not wanting to stand out, I think the younger crowd is looking for something that’s different and not what everyone is using.

I am hoping the Blackberry 5G is what the folks in that category are looking for, price pointing will be important for the success of any new product.

Hopefully we see something hit the market later this year, I am optimistic and I am hoping to see at least a design concept from OnwardMobility in the near future.

[chain13]

I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Who would bother typing this much volume on glass?

The rest of the world maybe.. LOL

[chain13]

I've really been trying to keep posts brief... Truly an addiction... Some sort of addictive neural transmitter from thumb?? (Actually thumb nail) Lol.

All I can say to disbelieving "slab phreeks"... "It's a Blackberry thing! You wouldn't understand...". HeeHee...

It's more like it's a fanboysm thing. And yeah I could understand that

[idssteve]

It's more like it's a fanboysm thing. And yeah I could understand that

Guess I'm too old to understand "fanboyism"...?? Is that a pejorative of some sort? ??

I consider enthusiasm to be a good thing. This IS a site for BlackBerry "users and abusers". Aka "enthusiasts"?? 90+% of BlackBerrys sold have been PKB.

Apple has its enthusiast base as well. I CERTAINLY understand the statement: "It's an Apple thing! I do NOT understand...". Lol.

BTW, I have a T shirt with: "it's a Jeep thing! You wouldn't understand...". Lol. Are Jeep enthusiasts "fanboyism"? ??

I LIKE my Jeep because it does some things I like! I LIKE my BOLD because it does some things I like! Sharing how and why we like our preferred choices is what enthusiasts do! If that's what "fanboyism" does, guilty as charged. ??

I'll bet there are quite a few like minded enthusiasts in various Apple and other slab oriented forums that you might find less objectionable? Lol.

[the_boon]

As I've shown before, without bezels you can put a Priv-sized screen on a KEY-type device that is only 10mm taller than a KEY².

Hmm, "only" 10mm taller is a full centimeter taller, a difference that I wouldn't call negligible.

I'm afraid it would end up looking like all those ridiculous fake KEY3 renders on YouTube with giant screens and no chin below the keyboard lol.

[the_boon]

The rest of the world maybe.. LOL

I believe most would give up after a few sentences and pull out their laptop...or tablet with PKB attachment.

[conite]

Hmm, "only" 10mm taller is a full centimeter taller, a difference that I wouldn't call negligible.

I'm afraid it would end up looking like all those ridiculous fake KEY3 renders on YouTube with giant screens and no chin below the keyboard lol.

Same height as a Samsung A71, Samsung S21+, or iPhone 12 Pro Max.

[the_boon]

Same height as a Samsung A71, Samsung S21+, or iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I just don't think a Priv sized screen (5.5") + the PKB can be achieved on a candybar form factor without:

1. Hindering typing balance because too tall

Or

2. Making the device huge overall, hindering one handed usability

[conite]

I just don't think a Priv sized screen (5.5") + the PKB can be achieved on a candybar form factor without:

1. Hindering typing balance because too tall

Or

2. Making the device huge overall, hindering one handed usability

Nah. 10mm wouldn't change a thing.

Not to mention that it's infinitely better than any other possible option.

[idssteve]

Hmm, "only" 10mm taller is a full centimeter taller, a difference that I wouldn't call negligible.

I'm afraid it would end up looking like all those ridiculous fake KEY3 renders on YouTube with giant screens and no chin below the keyboard lol.

These "modern" products of "size envy" already need clearance lights for air traffic safety... Lol. What's another 3/8"? Lol.

[conite]

These "modern" products of "size envy" already need clearance lights for air traffic safety... Lol. What's another 3/8"? Lol.

No point in being somewhere in the middle. Go full 16:9, or go small. Since small doesn't play well with Android, we are where we are. I don't think people would accept anything else in 2021.

[manny2]

No point in being somewhere in the middle. Go full 16:9, or go small. Since small doesn't play well with Android, we are where we are. I don't think people would accept anything else in 2021.

Also a 5.5 screen will probably not cut it, according to stats around 87percent of phones sold have bigger screens than 5.5, so safer bet is 6inch. Its worth a try. "The longest phone"
But at this point its about not alienating average person enough where they would dismiss your phone out of hand, especially of they see it in person. A small but not super small screen would achieve that.