1. idssteve's Avatar
    This is a correct statement and a major reason why commercial products are around or above 70%. Evaporation can be a problem with enveloped virus, HOWEVER, since you cannot use denatured alcohol on sensitive electronics (or parts thereof), the purer alcohol has to be used. It will still kill or severely disable virus. Ideally a 80% Ethyl product for maximum kill (depending on virus type) would be great for a disinfectant but alas not great for electronics. As a plus, good old 99 ethyl can be drunk as well (ahh brings back memories, foggy memories, of days gone by in Chem 250 labs).
    Haha... Some ChemE guys at college used to mix gatorade powder & other stuff with everclear to some optimal PH for "tea" parties. Can't recall the PH. Potent stuff!! Lol. I still use "generic everclear" or 151 rum or 151 vodka in spray bottles for disinfect apples, cherries, etc that might've been sneezed on, etc, in a store. Also great to disinfect delivered pizza... Lol. Really like the flavors. Lol. Especially the 151 vodka that "accidentally" gets on pizza itself. Surprisingly complimentary. HeeHee.

    I'm hypothesizing that if an iso saturation boundary can be established in the crevices of PKB, it might, maybe, at least injure virus? Without undue device risk? Testing the hypothesis becomes the next challenge... Unless that's already tested somewhere?

    Google doesn't seem to know what I'm asking... Still refining... Lol.

    Disclaimer again... Keep high proof alcohol sprays from potential ignition sources!! Lol.
    01-24-21 07:29 PM
  2. brookie229's Avatar
    at least injure virus?
    Exactly - there is little attention (imo) to researching what it takes to sufficiently "injure" virus or reduce viral load in order to reduce the incidence or ameliorate the severity of disease. While 99% may not be ideal for the "kill", it will decrease the load to the point of being "good enough"

    We were famous for bringing orange juice to labs - sampling some ethyl, watching it float to the top and being careful to do a quick shake before injesting. Also the local bars probably noticed lots of orange juice orders among the poor uni chemistry student tables and wondered why on earth so many of them couldn't walk straight when they left.
    01-24-21 07:42 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    Exactly - there is little attention (imo) to researching what it takes to sufficiently "injure" virus or reduce viral load in order to reduce the incidence or ameliorate the severity of disease. While 99% may not be ideal for the "kill", it will decrease the load to the point of being "good enough"

    We were famous for bringing orange juice to labs - sampling some ethyl, watching it float to the top and being careful to do a quick shake before injesting. Also the local bars probably noticed lots of orange juice orders among the poor uni chemistry student tables and wondered why on earth so many of them couldn't walk straight when they left.
    Haha... Very familiar! Lol. One Grad student became convinced that tannins from oak barrels assisted aged Bourbon to break "double sulfur bonds" of phlegm, if I recall correctly. ?? To this day, I swear by a sip of a good bourbon when suffering respiratory congestion... Feels better at least... HeeHee

    I'll be putting some rough calcs to sanity check potential for establishing an isopropyl molar saturation boundary layer within PKB crevices... Nice to enjoy challenge in "retirement"... Lol. Will report...
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-24-21 08:00 PM
  4. chain13's Avatar
    Yes, like I said, some of us will think we see better "web based behind desk" ways... So long as tomorrow looks very much like yesterday. My industry is CUSTOM production. Frequently, but not always, involving very low volume. Even one off. Frequently demanding individually custom solutions, procedures, specific personnel talents, etc, etc. Not necessarily always compatible with the very common methods you describe that I "routinely" suggest, also. In fact, these few producers I'm discussing frequently under bid and out perform their "monster company" competitors mired in "macro" approaches. Their flexibility is a valuable asset that THEIR customers appreciate. These producers frequently produce and ship products before the bigger organizations even realize the RFQ has been released. Lol.

    Short enough? I even used both thumbs this time. Just for nostalgia. Lol.
    I know that, and I didn't mean to compare between my work spaces and yours. Every industries out there eventually face the same things, whether it's a big one or small one. And having individuals who can adapt into unfamiliar conditions is a big plus. For me, your use cases sound to be made up, just to justify the usability of your pkb phone lol..

    But whatever idk anyway
    01-27-21 01:07 AM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    I know that, and I didn't mean to compare between my work spaces and yours. Every industries out there eventually face the same things, whether it's a big one or small one. And having individuals who can adapt into unfamiliar conditions is a big plus. For me, your use cases sound to be made up, just to justify the usability of your pkb phone lol..

    But whatever idk anyway
    Well, the use case most certainly developed, hand in hand, around available tools. Without cell phones, other techniques would likely grow out of other available tools. If VKB had developed before PKB, I doubt anyone would've bothered inventing PKB devices just to generate the use case.

    As things turned out, at least one, maybe two, PKB designs ultimately matured certain performance characteristics well enough to justify users generating a use case of their own around those characteristics. That happens with each step of human innovation. Someone invents, develops, or stumbles into, an innovative technique or tool. Then someone else finds or creates innovative ways to leverage the innovation. "Off label" uses the original innovator never envisioned. Chicken or egg? Lol.

    it's my personal contention that Dakota (9900) designers painstakingly evolved their "innovation" around user feedback generated from within a given use case. An enterprise use case that was once more popularly expected. Then came byod glass and popular use cases then developed (made up?) around that innovation.

    Dakota represents RIM's best evolutionary response to that challenge. Imo. A response fully intended to be best at what RIM was best at. A response still leveraged by a tiny few for its unique characteristics. Both good and not so. All part of the human "Tree of Knowledge" journey. Lol.

    I'm a $$ guy. If option B proves to generate most $, why option A? The number of others who prefer A is certainly rational to note. Real world field testing must prove out relevant variables in MY equation. At least until some variable beyond my influence degrades B enough.

    Degradation likely to forever alter my equation in a not distant enough future. Imo. Lol. Only a tiny few will even notice... But those few will adapt... Once relevant numbers light their path. Imo. Fwiw.
    01-27-21 07:45 AM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    Well, the use case most certainly developed, hand in hand, around available tools. Without cell phones, other techniques would likely grow out of other available tools. If VKB had developed before PKB, I doubt anyone would've bothered inventing PKB devices just to generate the use case.

    As things turned out, at least one, maybe two, PKB designs ultimately matured certain performance characteristics well enough to justify users generating a use case of their own around those characteristics. That happens with each step of human innovation. Someone invents, develops, or stumbles into, an innovative technique or tool. Then someone else finds or creates innovative ways to leverage the innovation. "Off label" uses the original innovator never envisioned. Chicken or egg? Lol.

    it's my personal contention that Dakota (9900) designers painstakingly evolved their "innovation" around user feedback generated from within a given use case. An enterprise use case that was once more popularly expected. Then came byod glass and popular use cases then developed (made up?) around that innovation.

    Dakota represents RIM's best evolutionary response to that challenge. Imo. A response fully intended to be best at what RIM was best at. A response still leveraged by a tiny few for its unique characteristics. Both good and not so. All part of the human "Tree of Knowledge" journey. Lol.

    I'm a $$ guy. If option B proves to generate most $, why option A? The number of others who prefer A is certainly rational to note. Real world field testing must prove out relevant variables in MY equation. At least until some variable beyond my influence degrades B enough.

    Degradation likely to forever alter my equation in a not distant enough future. Imo. Lol. Only a tiny few will even notice... But those few will adapt... Once relevant numbers light their path. Imo. Fwiw.
    You're wasting your time. He's just there making fun of anything PKB related.
    01-27-21 10:10 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I know that, and I didn't mean to compare between my work spaces and yours. Every industries out there eventually face the same things, whether it's a big one or small one. And having individuals who can adapt into unfamiliar conditions is a big plus. For me, your use cases sound to be made up, just to justify the usability of your pkb phone lol..

    But whatever idk anyway
    Instead of made up, I think we can all agree on extreme edge case.#hugs
    chain13 and idssteve like this.
    01-27-21 10:43 AM
  8. chain13's Avatar
    Instead of made up, I think we can all agree on extreme edge case.#hugs
    Agree. Single handedly typing while the other one handling a stick golf is sure an extreme edge use case, even for highly experienced executives.
    01-28-21 07:17 AM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    A couple competitors do golf. Their clients sometimes complain about response times. While getting on my wait list. Lol.

    THIS "executive" doesn't do golf. No time. All I'd think about is what needs getting done. Just my "extreme" 25/8 "personality type"... Lol.


    Edit: dear old gramps once advised... Find the thing you'd PAY to do, then find a way to leverage it into a paying profession... This old codger LOVEs what he does. I've surrounded myself with a like minded team who also loves what we do. Lol.

    Great book about a hero of mine, "Boss Ket", called "Professional Amateur"... Maybe call guys like me "professional hobbyists" ...?? Lol.

    Who knows, maybe some "professional hobbyist" somewhere might innovate an "extreme 25/8" handset for personality types and learning style like mine this year? ?? Lol. No breath holding here. Lol.
    Last edited by idssteve; 01-28-21 at 03:06 PM.
    01-28-21 02:24 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    BBK Electronics (Oppo, Realme, Vivo, OnePlus) just took over top spot in smartphone sales for 2020.

    Then came Samsung, Apple, Huawei , and Xiaomi.
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-29-21 12:17 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Also, some positive news for Nokia smartphones. At least they're heading in the right direction after a tough year+.
    01-29-21 03:10 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Duplicate
    01-29-21 03:10 PM
  13. manny2's Avatar
    Who knows, maybe some "professional hobbyist" somewhere might innovate an "extreme 25/8" handset for personality types and learning style like mine this year? ?? Lol. No breath holding here. Lol.
    A problem is most texting is social not business, which gives the advantage to vkb. Ie emoticons,
    Overall there will be a increase in demand for pkb due to covid from people working at home more, you think?
    It would also be safe to say the new cold war heating up will create more demand for made in america/mexico phones.
    01-29-21 08:36 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    A problem is most texting is social not business, which gives the advantage to vkb. Ie emoticons,
    Overall there will be a increase in demand for pkb due to covid from people working at home more, you think?
    It would also be safe to say the new cold war heating up will create more demand for made in america/mexico phones.


    lol... I'd be the last person to venture predictions about what "most" people might do. lol Few have considered ME "normal" since my second "retirement". if ever. lol.

    I CAN say that I've worn out 3-4 X the number of KB's on my old Bold this past year than any previous "normal" year. Thanks greatly to covid realities like assisting some clients to re-purpose existing, and stand up new, production lines into producing products they'd never dreamed of a year ago.

    Mostly from home and/or from "covid safe" motorhome/mobile service facility. Staged very near some plants. But also for communicating coordination with plant personnel while maintaining extreme "social distance" on noisy plant floors. A use case "made up" just for single thumbing 9900 while simultaneously operating and or tuning various machines with the other hand. Capabilities easily leveraged, when available. imo.

    Also, tho, I've been typing manuscripts, assembling manuals and fielding much Q&A using 9900 as part of personnel training activities. Training naturally conducted "virtually" over more macro means, but supported greatly with Agent99's usefully "made up" skill sets. lol. Training that was once typically conducted in person, on site, in groups. pre covid, that is.

    Few "normal" ppl even suspect, tho. So... lol
    01-29-21 10:20 PM
  15. chain13's Avatar
    Overall there will be a increase in demand for pkb due to covid from people working at home more, you think?
    People just use their notebook to get their paper works done from home, instead of using a tiny want to be computer device with pkb.
    Last edited by chain13; 01-30-21 at 07:53 PM.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-30-21 07:40 PM
  16. chain13's Avatar
    A couple competitors do golf. Their clients sometimes complain about response times. While getting on my wait list. Lol.

    THIS "executive" doesn't do golf. No time. All I'd think about is what needs getting done. Just my "extreme" 25/8 "personality type"... Lol.
    Hmm.. So, there is no golf in the steve world. Sad
    01-30-21 07:41 PM
  17. chain13's Avatar
    You're wasting your time. He's just there making fun of anything PKB related.
    Isn't that what we are all doing here boon? Wasting our time, pretending to be productive to justify some line of products

    Kidding...
    01-30-21 07:55 PM
  18. manny2's Avatar
    People just use their notebook to get their paper works done, instead of using a tiny want to be computer device with pkb.
    Your right, but there probably has been an uptick of text phone communication for business use, not everyone is at the laptop all the time.
    The blurring of work and home would also have made people want a pkb more. Although perhaps by this time people need to be reminded pkb is more acurate.
    01-30-21 07:59 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Your right, but there probably has been an uptick of text phone communication for business use, not everyone is at the laptop all the time.
    The blurring of work and home would also have made people want a pkb more. Although perhaps by this time people need to be reminded pkb is more acurate.
    Not in the slightest. My vendors have increased the use of Slack, Zoom, Google Meetings and other platforms. I used to rely more on RingCentral being available dually from my desk and on mobile. That’s my largest vendor and they’ve given me a new laptop with ringDNA as integrated VoIP managed solution. The app even allows me texting capability and SalesForce integration but only from laptop. The PKB laptop is where the pandemic has pushed things.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-30-21 08:35 PM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    Hmm.. So, there is no golf in the steve world. Sad
    Not in recent decades. Not so much since first "retirement", at least. Just can't do golf justice while my mind & heart is with all of the things I REALLY love to do. Working at a job you don't really love is what's sad.
    01-30-21 08:51 PM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    Not in the slightest. My vendors have increased the use of Slack, Zoom, Google Meetings and other platforms. I used to rely more on RingCentral being available dually from my desk and on mobile. That’s my largest vendor and they’ve given me a new laptop with ringDNA as integrated VoIP managed solution. The app even allows me texting capability and SalesForce integration but only from laptop. The PKB laptop is where the pandemic has pushed things.
    My Toughbook laptop has seen drastically increased use this past year. Mostly displacing my "giants". "Quick response" compact PKB has at least trippled hand time, for me, tho. Even at home. Often in left hand while CAD station/desktop/laptop mouse commands right hand. Amazing how much left thumb can produce over meal time... even at home...
    01-30-21 09:07 PM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    The blurring of work and home would also have made people want a pkb more. Although perhaps by this time people need to be reminded pkb is more acurate.
    I hardly see that. Most people I've seen rely more on group conference solution for meeting and coordination. So many ISPs here also provide some kind of "work from home" package solutions for corporate and education. Other than that, most works rely even more on the network. In my workplace specifically, most officers who do their job from home, need more direct access to company's internal databases (for files, legals etc) through vpn, online office for collaboration, and more.
    Last edited by chain13; 01-31-21 at 06:00 AM.
    01-31-21 05:49 AM
  23. manny2's Avatar
    I hardly see that. Most people I've seen rely more on group conference solution for meeting and coordination. So many ISPs here also provide some kind of "work from home" package solutions for corporate and education. Other than that, most works rely even more on the network. In my workplace specifically, most officers who do their job from home, need more direct access to company's internal databases (for files, legals etc) through vpn, online office for collaboration, and more.
    What I'm saying is that phones are being used more for business purposes than in the past. Before people went to work and got to their computer and talked face to face, not using their phones at all. Now they go to their computer at home but are eager to get off it any chance they can, the phone providing that capability as it allows them to stay in touch with their laptop/workplace. This would naturally make them appreciate greater accuracy of phone pkb and if they knew about it also the speed key for quick app switching. (i guess) Some workplaces going office free would have relied on laptop but also the phone, when previously the phone was not used for business in the office. Yeah could be wrong but seems logical. I don't know whether OM can capitalize on this given the difficulty of advertising the advantages.
    chain13 likes this.
    01-31-21 06:38 AM
  24. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    With all that’s happened in 2020 and the COVID situation, a lot of folks have been affected both physically, mentally and financially.

    Most all of the major electronic trade shows where cancelled in 2020 and even though it’s been a very tough year, the major manufacturers are still have to develop some new products to generate revenue.

    I thought I would start a thread to see what might be coming down the pike from big tech in 2021 and get folks talking, let’s put this COVID stuff behind us get back to some sense of normalcy.
    Lots and lots of these...


    01-31-21 09:17 AM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    Even "locked down" at HOME, devoting my whole body posture to maintaining "simple" contact & updates gets tiresome. As with in the office, I STILL get away from the desk at every excuse. To go get coffee, dig thru hard copy & prints, break time, mealtime, empty waste basket, etc, etc..

    Except now, from home, I'm not visiting coworkers in neighboring cubicles, seeing projects first hand in fab shop, planning meetings, turn over meetings, etc, etc... Much of that now happens over "virtual" means but also, in my case at least, old fashioned voice and text has been filling in much of the personal involvement void.

    Like physical meetings, I find "virtual meetings" a mixed bag. Some things really need "body language" for complete communications. Other things really don't benefit much, if any, from visual body language cues. Sometimes proving a callosal waste of time. Some folks are ok wasting an entire 5 minutes pulling everyone and every thing together for a 5 minute conference, etc. I do mind. I can get a LOT done in 5 un-distracted minutes. Minutes are precious to ancient old fossilized "short timers" like me. Lol.

    Especially when a high proportion of said meetings, physical and virtual, is spent saying "I'll send you that data...". Many, many times a simple group sms exchange proves MOST proficient for getting most relevant, and most precise, real time data where it really needs to go. Not suitable for some privacy concerned clients but where suitable, even more hard to beat under covid conditions. In MY "extreme" experience, at least. Lol.

    At home, ready availability of desktop/laptop relegates my slab giants to their charging stations on desk, mostly.

    Yet, I STILL like to get household things done, like making coffee, taking trash out, shoveling snow, mowing, trimming trees, changing oil in vehicles, splitting wood, fixing roofing, etc, etc,... I STILL like to maintain real time availability while roaming about home place.

    Compact 9900 proves best suited for that function for me. No quicker response than a compact handset sized so that it's already comfortably in hand. If I need something larger, 65" CAD station is already booted within 100' away... Little need for giant slab misery, for ME. Others' mileage vary, naturally.
    Last edited by idssteve; 01-31-21 at 11:10 AM.
    01-31-21 10:50 AM
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