03-14-14 11:00 PM
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  1. brucep1's Avatar
    Well based on your other statement of failed product, so approximately 500,000 of a reachable market of 3billion users, would be upset, a ratio smaller than the ratio of users unhappy with the loss of the scroll wheel to those who embraced the trackball

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Not just 500,000, but all the tech blogs and news stations would experience the same perception. RIM's reputation is currently seen as an aged failing company that can't adapt to new market standards. At least here in the states. I'm not sure creating more unhappy customers would be a solution.
    10-12-11 08:53 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Question: If RIM can't manage a simple tablet launch properly, nor release upgrades to either phones nor tablets on anything even resembling a proper schedule...

    How on EARTH do you imagine that they're able to launch AND manage something as complicated as a whole retail chain, especially without any prior experience?

    I mean, jeez... Imagine their stores... Some of them would probably open with no inventory, while another store would open with nothing but BB Torch in stock. Some of them would have one guy to man all the registers, while they'd have two or three people for each register in other stores. Heck, some of them would probably have the whole roof collapse on the store within a couple of weeks of opening. Nope, it wouldn't be pretty...
    Well I would hope they hire a manager with experience to launch this, and not do it half a ssed,
    They are really good at distribution usually. It seems it is software delivery they need help with

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 09:11 AM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Not just 500,000, but all the tech blogs and news stations would experience the same perception. RIM's reputation is currently seen as an aged failing company that can't adapt to new market standards. At least here in the states. I'm not sure creating more unhappy customers would be a solution.
    I think Tech Journalists, will be negative on RIM no matter what they do until they see a growth pattern like Apple or Android, RIM is still treated like the big dog and everyone roots for the underdog, Apple somehow keeps underdog status and market leader status, it is mindboggling!

    I also think many will see RIM creating a retail channel (if they do a good press release) as an attempt to be more Apple like, and everyone wants them to be more Apple like for some reason

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 09:16 AM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Not just 500,000, but all the tech blogs and news stations would experience the same perception. RIM's reputation is currently seen as an aged failing company that can't adapt to new market standards. At least here in the states. I'm not sure creating more unhappy customers would be a solution.
    Sorry for quoting twice
    I hate the way the edit renders on a blackberry

    As for More unhappy customers. I think a retail space would cause less unhappy customers as you put local people on the front lines handling issues, you add training classes into the retail space and you educate your customer base,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 09:27 AM
  5. swervable's Avatar
    What I see them needing is a few things.

    Marketing marketing marketing marketing!

    Outside this type of information sharing on sites like this, how much real world marketing do you see for the New Blackberries and the playbook? But you turn on the TV and you see several commercials during prime time for either the iPad or any of the android devices. It's sad really.

    As for the BBX phones the need to make 3 models.
    1-all touch mini playbook type phone
    2-Qwerty A Bold/curve type
    3-qwerty slide out phone.

    And what they need to do with them is make them available for all carriers! No more carrier exclusive models.

    And did I mention Marketing?
    10-12-11 09:54 AM
  6. johnenglish's Avatar
    RIM had a retail store back in 2007. It was around for about a year and then it closed down.

    Apple is successful becuase they sell a lifestyle. RIM just sells mobile phones, tablets, and accessories. Apple has successfully positioned themselves as a company that enriches your life. They offer a whole range of solutions that integrate with each other via iTunes and iCloud. They have solutions for home computing, mobile computing, mobile communication, home entertainment, personal entertainment, and mobile entertainment. That's why Apple is successful with its retail stores.
    10-12-11 10:39 AM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM had a retail store back in 2007. It was around for about a year and then it closed down.

    Apple is successful becuase they sell a lifestyle. RIM just sells mobile phones, tablets, and accessories. Apple has successfully positioned themselves as a company that enriches your life. They offer a whole range of solutions that integrate with each other via iTunes and iCloud. They have solutions for home computing, mobile computing, mobile communication, home entertainment, personal entertainment, and mobile entertainment. That's why Apple is successful with its retail stores.
    Do you have some links about the RIM location? Was it a RIM store or was it a branded associate store? Or a joint venture store? I'll admit I didn't follow RIM much pre2008 because I loved my WinMo phones, so I don't know if it did exsit, but I really can't see them having a single location owned and run by a division of RIM.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 10:53 AM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    What I see them needing is a few things.

    Marketing marketing marketing marketing!

    Outside this type of information sharing on sites like this, how much real world marketing do you see for the New Blackberries and the playbook? But you turn on the TV and you see several commercials during prime time for either the iPad or any of the android devices. It's sad really.

    As for the BBX phones the need to make 3 models.
    1-all touch mini playbook type phone
    2-Qwerty A Bold/curve type
    3-qwerty slide out phone.

    And what they need to do with them is make them available for all carriers! No more carrier exclusive models.

    And did I mention Marketing?
    It looks like RIM has done away with Carrier excusivity with OS7 devices,
    I greatly disagree with you 3 model approach, but that is an Entirely other thread for me to fight in, I'm in retail mode here hahaha

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 10:56 AM
  9. johnenglish's Avatar
    Do you have some links about the RIM location? Was it a RIM store or was it a branded associate store? Or a joint venture store? I'll admit I didn't follow RIM much pre2008 because I loved my WinMo phones, so I don't know if it did exsit, but I really can't see them having a single location owned and run by a division of RIM.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    BlackBerry retail store opens

    Basically RIM contracted out the retail stores to Wireless Giant. The idea was to open up the first one in Michigan and then, if successful, open them up nation wide with Wireless Giant running the stores under contract from RIM.
    10-12-11 12:33 PM
  10. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I'd say just open up a retail store around Times Square in NYC and Oxford street in London, and near the Eaton Centre in Toronto...etc...

    Who cares if they lose money on the store? It's all about the advertising and brand recognition anyway. Plus, RIM has enough products to fill a store anyway. It's not like Apple has that many products anyway.
    10-12-11 12:41 PM
  11. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    I just don't see the point of RIM opening their own stores.

    1: Their selection isn't wide enough. They can't be Apple stores, cause where are all the laptops, desktops, AppleTVs etc. etc. So basically they'd be competing with the dedicated cell-stores that have advantage of carrying more than one brand. And this is a market with pretty thin margins.
    Who would go to a RIM-store? Fanboys, that's who. And there aren't enough of those to support a whole retail chain.

    2: What would the purpose be? If it's because RIM is failing in the marketplace, then there are better and far more economical solutions. RIM isn't the only cellphone/tablet manhufacturer that is fighting against other manufacturers in Best Buys, etc. to get noticed and get sales. But other manufacturers are doing fine. Look at HTC, Samsung, etc. If RIM can't comptete with them on equal terms, the answer lies somewhere else than to take their toys and go home and open their own stores.
    10-12-11 12:44 PM
  12. jd914's Avatar
    a RIM retail store brings back memories of an old "Sctoch tape store" skit on Saturday Night Live where all they sold was Scotch Tape. Lets see, every other year RIM retail stores will offer to sell new devices?

    Apple retail Stores sell
    iPods
    iPad
    Apple TV
    Phone Accessories
    Software
    Desktop Computers
    Laptop Computers
    iPhone
    iPod
    Give tutorials
    Headphones
    Compact sound iPod systems
    Have a place where kids can explore computers
    the list goes on

    RIM can sell
    stagnant phone line
    a Playbook that didn't sell well
    Last edited by JD914; 10-12-11 at 01:02 PM.
    10-12-11 12:59 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    BlackBerry retail store opens

    Basically RIM contracted out the retail stores to Wireless Giant. The idea was to open up the first one in Michigan and then, if successful, open them up nation wide with Wireless Giant running the stores under contract from RIM.
    A contract store splitsd revenue makes it less profitable, also adds a layer of red tape for launching new products

    I'd agree this approach would be very flawed

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 01:22 PM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I just don't see the point of RIM opening their own stores.

    1: Their selection isn't wide enough. They can't be Apple stores, cause where are all the laptops, desktops, AppleTVs etc. etc. So basically they'd be competing with the dedicated cell-stores that have advantage of carrying more than one brand. And this is a market with pretty thin margins.
    Who would go to a RIM-store? Fanboys, that's who. And there aren't enough of those to support a whole retail chain.
    People would go into a RIM store because they or their friends own RIM products, because Businesses have products of RIM's and need servicing, and yes fans,
    2: What would the purpose be? If it's because RIM is failing in the marketplace, then there are better and far more economical solutions. RIM isn't the only cellphone/tablet manhufacturer that is fighting against other manufacturers in Best Buys, etc. to get noticed and get sales. But other manufacturers are doing fine. Look at HTC, Samsung, etc. If RIM can't comptete with them on equal terms, the answer lies somewhere else than to take their toys and go home and open their own stores.
    My reason for thinking they should do it is partially laid out in this thread above.
    I think RIM needs to make themselves a Brand, they need to bring products and life style to market, bbm is a central point.

    RIM has a good product mix, that Could be expanded, also you give location for their sales staff to be based out of, since clearly their current territory managers are very poorly managed having just waterloo,

    When I am home from work tonight I'll write a far more detailed post than I have in the past as to my logic, my hopes, and how I would implement it had RIM said "Stephen we want you to build our retail business"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 01:29 PM
  15. johnenglish's Avatar
    I'd be interested to see that becuase I don't see how RIM could possible create something like the Apple store with their current product line up. It would be possible to create BlackBerry stores but something on a much smaller scale since they just sell phones, tablets and accessories. They're nothing like Apple which has created a lifestyle that people have bought into.
    10-12-11 02:13 PM
  16. theKHMERboy's Avatar
    I know where you are trying to get to but I don't think rim needs its own retail store but they do need to step up and make one super amazing phone that can add a few more features but also keep the same design that blackberry is known for.. Maybe make something similar to the torch 9800/9810 but thinner still having the lovely keyboard blackberry is known for but also include facetime and have more user friendly apps to play but make it powerful for the business use ppl

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 02:27 PM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Why I feel RIM could benefit from a retail chain.

    Higher Margin revenue from existing product lines, as well as a direct to consumer avenue for Peripherals, currently if RIM wants to push out a peripheral product they have to sell it to distribution first, then clearly they have to take the development hit as they sell at wholesale to the channel, with a direct to Consumer channel they can test out peripheral products and attempt to get some of the 3rd party Apple manufacturers have with attachments.
    Peripherals I would like to See RIM develop
    * BlueTooth Receipt printer / Label Maker (Similar to this + Receipts DYMO | LabelWriter Printers)
    * BlackBerry Presenter 2.0 with HDMI to work with the PlayBook
    * BlackBerry Picosized projector, something weighing in less than 1lb including battery,
    Being able to have trained sales staff, and a targeted strategy for each product launch from the retail channels and supporting website would see a greater ROI, if sales are substantial enough Distribution will be able to pick up the accessories,
    These Accessories give RIM a Product to advertise without undercutting distribution or discounting handsets.

    RIM need to rebuilt their Brand, They need to ad some life style like following, a simple way to start that, is merchandise, BlackBerry Branded T Shirts, Hats, Ties, Cuff Links,
    These can be used as Give away products, and retail products, a $12.99 T-shirt if RIM is buying from a direct manufacturer and silk screener in China would cost about $4 each landed in Canada, giving them fantastic margins as supplemental products and value added advertisements, These wouldn't take a large floor space area, 3-5 cotton T's, 2 Polo/Golf shirts, 2-3 Tie's and 4-5 hats, in addition to the display of accessory products, Similar to how a BMW showroom has complementary products.


    With Direct to Public Retail locations, RIM can expand it's online offering selling full retail phones online, like Apple does, and tablets in addition to their other products, they can give the option to pick up from Store or Ship, pick up from store is favourable as you get a consumer into a store with other products for impulse purchasing,


    Now The Brick and Mortar stores serve more than just a location to sell products,
    They provide a Dedicated location for RIM product training, regular training sessions for the public, and to Enterprise, without having to rely on the Carrier to provide training, and rely on their training programs to meet Manufacturer standards. The RIM product training seminars can also showcase accessories for specific applications.
    Having a centralized location gives a center point for regional advertising, and a home base for territory managers, and product support staff for carriers and other distribution locations, add value through the stores to Enterprise and Carriers,

    Something Else I have toyed with in my mind, that I don't think is actually out there yet is Direct download content from the retail location, in the US this would not be AS nice as it would be in Canada with restricted Home bandwidth and restricted mobile bandwidth, Imagine going into the RIM store with your PlayBook and docking it into a Kiosk and having HD content uploaded to it at fast speeds, that you get to take home, or downloading an Entire album in the store after sampling it through BBM Music,
    to give perspective I have 6GB of Mobile data and 90GB of Home data per month, which in Canada is in the upper percentile, so having someplace to come and download 4GB to 9GB of Video content at highspeed would be awesome, These Kiosks would have Video and Audio Content, with featured content like HMV does with CD’s watch a trailer download the TV show/Movie, Listen to a song, download it right there. Gives people reasons to go into the store.

    Having the Retail store I feel RIM would need to maintain the wide selection of handheld devices, having dedicated sales staff would allow for targeted marketing to Businesses, Selling “fleet Curves” to SMB’s selling Flip Phone Styles into the Construction Industries, pushing leaving the Bolds, torches, and Pearls as consumer phones and premium phones, or finding niche markets that they could target, The Apple model is about bringing people into the Store and providing customer service, the model I would support with RIM would be to find customers, their focus still needs to be Enterprise, and provide services to Enterprise, and add SMB focus, showing HOW RIM can help their business, with a retail presence in consumer populated areas you get the opportunity to have walk in traffic and show the products, you get to put BlackBerry Merchandise into consumers hands, and you get to show them how it helps them get things done, selling to SMB, to Large Business, and targeting specific product niches, RIM gets to not fight head to head against the marketing machine that is Apple, but provides services and advertisements that are geared to a mixed market,
    With the PlayBook they need to take it up a level, We’ll assume OS2.5 has all the Missing features, and that Developers are building EA games quality apps, they need to have a 7” PlayBook as that is the portable PlayBook, the 10” PlayBook as the “me to” product, and a 17” PlayBook, the 17” PlayBook is a desktop companion, it is in the office, you link it to your BlackBerry, you have your BT keyboard, it for all intents and purposes is a Laptop/desktop with full cloud access to Office365, and native document editing as well, I know I personally would carry a 17” PlayBook and a 7” PlayBook the 17” would be a replacement for my notebook on the road during the week, the 7” would be my pocket companion for board rooms, and presentations.

    I’d like to make note of BlackBerry Accessories Store - RIM CA for products RIM Already produces, with which they could expand on, and add BlackBerry’s and PlayBooks to the site, Also putting the site more in peoples faces having it involved in advertisements.
    toneytone likes this.
    10-12-11 08:21 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I know where you are trying to get to but I don't think rim needs its own retail store but they do need to step up and make one super amazing phone that can add a few more features but also keep the same design that blackberry is known for.. Maybe make something similar to the torch 9800/9810 but thinner still having the lovely keyboard blackberry is known for but also include facetime and have more user friendly apps to play but make it powerful for the business use ppl

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    If we go into hardware that RIM needs I could write a much longer post than the one I just did about the retail channel,

    RIM needs to make BlackBerry's fun and sleek and community driven with NFC they could do something like https://www.sifteo.com/ with BlackBerry's make them really multiplayer, lots of fun, I'm sure with open API's developers could make some productivity things based on this idea as well

    RIM could really make a sexy flip phone, slim like the razor was but full featured like the style, or a Portrait slider with a slimmer body, like you said, maybe slightly wider screen, with a nested keyboard, they need the phone for many markets, not 1 phone to rule them all
    10-12-11 08:34 PM
  19. Laura Knotek's Avatar


    I’d like to make note of BlackBerry Accessories Store - RIM CA for products RIM Already produces, with which they could expand on, and add BlackBerry’s and PlayBooks to the site, Also putting the site more in peoples faces having it involved in advertisements.
    Unfortunately, I cannot see how RIM could make any money on a retail store. I would not even consider buying anything from that site.

    For instance, why pay $134.99 for the Bluetooth headset, when other online stores have the same thing as cheap as $39.99?
    10-12-11 08:40 PM
  20. olblueyez's Avatar
    Kinda like the Android stores right? Who do you think pays for that? Corporate Executives? Better leadership, product development, product support, and distribution will do just fine thanks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-12-11 08:45 PM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Unfortunately, I cannot see how RIM could make any money on a retail store. I would not even consider buying anything from that site.

    For instance, why pay $134.99 for the Bluetooth headset, when other online stores have the same thing as cheap as $39.99?


    See ONLINE I can't see Buying much from the RIM website, a few items maybe, but certainly not that headset but retail is a different story

    BestBuy Sells the same $119.99

    And Truthfully I have always purchased my Bluetooth headsets from Brick and mortar not from Online because when I need one, I need it now, same with MicroSD cards, and usually my first case on my phone, I know I pay 30-40% more, but the time savings is worth it, People do this in every market every day. that is why RETAIL RIM could work better than Online RIM.
    10-12-11 08:55 PM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Kinda like the Android stores right? Who do you think pays for that? Corporate Executives? Better leadership, product development, product support, and distribution will do just fine thanks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Android stores?


    I completely agree that RIM needs better leadership, product development cycles, Product support,

    I am not arguing against that, if Anything I am arguing RIM could use this route for better distribution, and better product support,

    and hopefully use it for better feedback from the consumers to realize what products they want and develop more appropriately
    10-12-11 08:58 PM
  23. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    See ONLINE I can't see Buying much from the RIM website, a few items maybe, but certainly not that headset but retail is a different story

    BestBuy Sells the same $119.99

    And Truthfully I have always purchased my Bluetooth headsets from Brick and mortar not from Online because when I need one, I need it now, same with MicroSD cards, and usually my first case on my phone, I know I pay 30-40% more, but the time savings is worth it, People do this in every market every day. that is why RETAIL RIM could work better than Online RIM.
    Actually, if my Bluetooth broke, I would probably just buy some cheap model at Walmart to use now, and then order a better one online at a cheaper price than in the brick and mortar store.
    10-12-11 08:59 PM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Actually, if my Bluetooth broke, I would probably just buy some cheap model at Walmart to use now, and then order a better one online at a cheaper price than in the brick and mortar store.
    Not worth the time to me.
    $150 for a headset, of which I can purchase 1 a year and write it off to my taxes without a blink,
    Coordinating when the product will arrive with when I will be home, PLUS the poor call quality or battery life on the junk one while I wait for the new one, logging 2-3 hours per day on the phone.

    and I am a LOW phone user compared so some I work with, (as I make it up in email)
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-12-11 09:02 PM
  25. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Not worth the time to me.
    $150 for a headset, of which I can purchase 1 a year and write it off to my taxes without a blink,
    Coordinating when the product will arrive with when I will be home, PLUS the poor call quality or battery life on the junk one while I wait for the new one, logging 2-3 hours per day on the phone.

    and I am a LOW phone user compared so some I work with, (as I make it up in email)
    That makes perfect sense for someone who travels extensively. A person who works at one site or in one town would not have that issue.

    I always had packages shipped to work not home. The shipping and receiving department would sign for them and deliver them to my desk.
    10-12-11 10:48 PM
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