11-14-16 01:54 PM
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  1. awindsr's Avatar
    Yeah, because what people are looking for is a complicated OS.
    Well if a feature rich, cleverly designed and thought out method of effective and efficient input and navigation with more than one way to achieve your goal is considered complicated, then you are who Apple is targeting with their simple and braindead approach.
    That's not a bad thing if most people are technology frightened, and hindered in that regard.
    I don't find any of the OS's out there difficult. Zero.

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-16 08:26 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I've previously read insider posts who've said that BB10 was originally intended to have a BBOS runtime (either in place of, or in addition to, Android). There were problems, and the BBOS RT never came... and, as you say, BB threw 80M BB users under the bus.

    I suspect BB would have been in a different reality if they'd been able to bring a significant number of those BBOS guys along. Though I doubt it would have changed the ending, merely postponed it, as BB10 still wouldn't have had the extensive App ecosystem that the world seemingly demands.
    Yeah I doubt a runtime to allow users to run their "old" BBOS apps would have made much of a difference.... I don't think it was the apps or investment into the BBOS ecosystem that held back users. It was the REASON they bought a BlackBerry to begin with..... BIS, and all the features it brought to early networks still in use in most of the developing world. Without BIS, a BlackBerry (BB10) was just another smartphone. Had much the same features as any other smartphone - data plans cost the same, battery life was the same (or worse), data usage was the same. But prices were higher (no sub $100 phones), and apps... well if you wanted them, they were there. Yes BB10 might have been "secure" or at least more securable with an EMM... but was that really THE reasons many bought a BlackBerry to began with?

    Maybe if that BBOS Runtime had included all the features of BIS.....
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-09-16 08:52 AM
  3. TGR1's Avatar
    I had an iphone 3G so I know what slow as molasses is. The last update made it completely unusable which they got a pass for while others were never given those same passes for much less.
    So did I. iOS 3.0 made the 3G horrible. Apple got slammed and they released subsequent versions and iOS 4 that made the phone quite usable again. I still have mine which I occasionally boot for nostalgia's sake. Can't do much with 1 hour battery . But oh, how I love how that phone feels in the hand. Still the best design ever.
    11-09-16 11:43 AM
  4. TGR1's Avatar
    Remember, that Apple went to every carrier but could only get AT&T, then not the major US carrier (23% market share), to carry the iPhone with a five year exclusive deal. That doesn't sound like they had money and economies of scale on their side - that belonged to Palm, Nokia, Microsoft, and BlackBerry and the other major carriers. BlackBerry had years to come up with something for its Verizon customers with the full support of the dominant US carriers.

    As far as Android is concerned, the HTC dream was launched only on T-Mobile in 2008 - hardly a power move by Google.
    Small correction: it was Cingular who Apple made the deal with and Cingular bought AT&T.
    11-09-16 11:47 AM
  5. donnation's Avatar
    Well if a feature rich, cleverly designed and thought out method of effective and efficient input and navigation with more than one way to achieve your goal is considered complicated, then you are who Apple is targeting with their simple and braindead approach.
    That's not a bad thing if most people are technology frightened, and hindered in that regard.
    I don't find any of the OS's out there difficult. Zero.

    Posted via CB10
    Wait, I'm confused. Some people in here's justification for why BB10 isn't used is because its complicated. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Its just a cop out like "Lack of marketing, media bashing, etc." I don't personally find it complicated and I don't think anyone who decided to use it would find it complicated. My point was that the poster who said that people used iOS because it wasn't complicated was being ridiculous because why would anyone want to use an OS that was complicated.

    So before you call someone a part of a simple and brain-dead marketing approach, make sure you understand what was said and why it was said.
    TgeekB, MikeX74, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    11-09-16 05:24 PM
  6. Alain_A's Avatar
    BB OS 10 had a big learning curve Into it. But was fun to dig for what was hidden
    Last edited by Alain_A; 11-10-16 at 03:02 AM.
    11-09-16 09:51 PM
  7. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    BBM OS 10 had a big learning curve Into it. But was fun to dig for what was hidden
    Go get a roll of nickels.
    11-09-16 10:34 PM
  8. Alain_A's Avatar
    Go get a roll of nickels.
    Why
    11-10-16 03:02 AM
  9. Jahmal A's Avatar
    BB OS 10 had a big learning curve Into it. But was fun to dig for what was hidden
    The main issue that a new user to BB10 is getting used to using swipes instead of buttons. Other than that, I don't see where there is any complications (unless trying to sideload).
    11-10-16 05:55 AM
  10. Jerry A's Avatar
    Yeah I doubt a runtime to allow users to run their "old" BBOS apps would have made much of a difference.... I don't think it was the apps or investment into the BBOS ecosystem that held back users. It was the REASON they bought a BlackBerry to begin with..... BIS, and all the features it brought to early networks still in use in most of the developing world. Without BIS, a BlackBerry (BB10) was just another smartphone. Had much the same features as any other smartphone - data plans cost the same, battery life was the same (or worse), data usage was the same. But prices were higher (no sub $100 phones), and apps... well if you wanted them, they were there. Yes BB10 might have been "secure" or at least more securable with an EMM... but was that really THE reasons many bought a BlackBerry to began with?

    Maybe if that BBOS Runtime had included all the features of BIS.....
    While I think many around here bought for BIS, I'm not sure that was the case for the average user.

    Knew lots of people who were happy to dump BBOS, get a more action packed phone and dump the $10/mo BIS surcharge.
    11-10-16 01:48 PM
  11. Alain_A's Avatar
    The main issue that a new user to BB10 is getting used to using swipes instead of buttons. Other than that, I don't see where there is any complications (unless trying to sideload).
    There was many hidden feature that needed to be discover
    11-10-16 02:16 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    While I think many around here bought for BIS, I'm not sure that was the case for the average user.

    Knew lots of people who were happy to dump BBOS, get a more action packed phone and dump the $10/mo BIS surcharge.
    The original reason to buy a BlackBerry (for me) was for it's great Battery life and Instant Email.... these were both a result of BIS and no one else having a solution... at least not until activesync came along. At that point, yeah the BlackBerry got old, and older, and older....

    But for those in what was "developing markets".... I thin the data compression and non SMS messaging was what made a BlackBerry the must have device.... again thank to BIS. But again, that has been greatly diminished as those networks have modernized and as other messaging apps came to the forefront.

    In the long.... BIS was not going to keep selling phones anyway.


    Now what some here want to talk about is security.... I think the number of people that bought strictly for the security, was pretty small. And most of them have learn that the security isn't what they taught it was. Corporate Security with management... great. Plan on BBM, Email and Phone... not so great.
    LuvULongTime and blackmass like this.
    11-10-16 02:41 PM
  13. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    There was many hidden feature that needed to be discover
    Its a mobile operating system user interface not a room escape game.
    TGR1, Cashgap, howarmat and 1 others like this.
    11-10-16 03:00 PM
  14. Yatezy's Avatar
    My only beef is with people who wish for alternative platforms to die because of stupid reasons like it's too complicated for most people as if everyone has the same needs. It has nothing to do with bb10 but with all the players (Palm, Nokia, and so on) who never really had a fair chance in the first place.

    But I'm the type who pulls for the underdogs.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but when Apple jumped into the phone market Nokia were the biggest phone company in the world. Nokia didn't just a have a fair chance, they were leaps and bounds ahead of Apple at that point. Blackberry were exactly the same.

    They are underdogs now but certainly not at that time. Apple were the underdogs, was you rooting for them then?
    Elephant_Canyon, TGR1 and JeepBB like this.
    11-12-16 02:42 PM
  15. matt4pack's Avatar
    Correct me if I'm wrong but when Apple jumped into the phone market Nokia were the biggest phone company in the world. Nokia didn't just a have a fair chance, they were leaps and bounds ahead of Apple at that point. Blackberry were exactly the same.

    They are underdogs now but certainly not at that time. Apple were the underdogs, was you rooting for them then?
    Nokia, Palm, HTC, and Blackberry were only in the phone business and none ever had a monopoly over each other. Apple wasn't an underdog they had far more money in the bank, a desktop os they could use, and a monopoly in the music player market. Same for Google, Samsung, and Microsoft so yes they were the underdog just as Sega had no chance once Microsoft wanted a piece of the video game market. Blackberry, HTC, and Nintendo are still kicking but they aren't on a level playing field.
    11-12-16 03:16 PM
  16. Yatezy's Avatar
    Nokia, Palm, HTC, and Blackberry were only in the phone business and none ever had a monopoly over each other. Apple wasn't an underdog they had far more money in the bank, a desktop os they could use, and a monopoly in the music player market. Same for Google, Samsung, and Microsoft so yes they were the underdog just as Sega had no chance once Microsoft wanted a piece of the video game market. Blackberry, HTC, and Nintendo are still kicking but they aren't on a level playing field.
    See the other posters replies. I can not put it better than what's already been said.

    If you wanna claim it's just because of Apples money might than go ahead but Microsoft should be number 2 based on the money theyve thrown away on it surely?
    11-12-16 07:31 PM
  17. matt4pack's Avatar
    See the other posters replies. I can not put it better than what's already been said.

    If you wanna claim it's just because of Apples money might than go ahead but Microsoft should be number 2 based on the money theyve thrown away on it surely?
    Microsoft didn't make it in the phone business because the top 2 were already Apple and Google. If the top 2 were anyone else they would have but whatever. Just worship the mega corporations.
    11-12-16 08:06 PM
  18. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Microsoft didn't make it in the phone business because the top 2 were already Apple and Google. If the top 2 were anyone else they would have but whatever. Just worship the mega corporations.
    Are you serious right now? Windows Mobile OS was around long before Apple and Android. Plus IIRC the first WP7 phones came out in 2010 (I remember looking at the HTC HD7). Symbian was still on top then, and iOS was probably still behind BlackBerry at that point. You don't get to rewrite history to cater to your agenda.
    11-13-16 09:45 AM
  19. donnation's Avatar
    Are you serious right now? Windows Mobile OS was around long before Apple and Android. Plus IIRC the first WP7 phones came out in 2010 (I remember looking at the HTC HD7). Symbian was still on top then, and iOS was probably still behind BlackBerry at that point. You don't get to rewrite history to cater to your agenda.
    Don't bother. He just changes his argument to whatever makes it seem like BB was cheated out of a chance because they were the "underdog," which couldn't be farther from the truth.
    11-13-16 10:14 AM
  20. Yatezy's Avatar
    Microsoft didn't make it in the phone business because the top 2 were already Apple and Google. If the top 2 were anyone else they would have but whatever. Just worship the mega corporations.
    See pantlesspenguin above.

    I was using touch screen devices that allowed app installations 2 years before the iPhone was released. Xda, you know the huge developer community for Android, is named after the Xda which is a Windows OS phone released originally in 2002. Windows had at least 5 years of a head start on Apple. And had all the desktop might and huge bank balance, also to had their own music players and own software suites that you are claiming gave Apple the advantage.

    And even then Nokia was still number one.

    Would you like salt with them grapes?
    pantlesspenguin and JeepBB like this.
    11-13-16 01:26 PM
  21. matt4pack's Avatar
    Are you serious right now? Windows Mobile OS was around long before Apple and Android. Plus IIRC the first WP7 phones came out in 2010 (I remember looking at the HTC HD7). Symbian was still on top then, and iOS was probably still behind BlackBerry at that point. You don't get to rewrite history to cater to your agenda.
    WP7 was not a modern OS. It was based on WindowsCE which was a legacy OS. They didn't move to the NT kernel in mobile until long after ios and android were already dominant.

    Having the supposed head start is what actually killed them as they had a legacy OS to support just like Palm, Blackberry, and Nokia. They didn't have a fresh start like Apple and Google. Man some of you guys are just ignorant of technology.
    Last edited by matt4pack; 11-13-16 at 02:05 PM.
    11-13-16 01:47 PM
  22. matt4pack's Avatar
    Don't bother. He just changes his argument to whatever makes it seem like BB was cheated out of a chance because they were the "underdog," which couldn't be farther from the truth.
    Whatever dude. All I said is it was never a level playing field. It doesn't matter that Palm, HTC, Nokia, and Blackberry were once the dominant players in mobile. They had legacy OS's to support and no money coming in from other businesses like Apple and Google. Also Blackberry was one of the last in mobile to outsource production out of the West.

    Some of you people have no critical thinking abilities. But keep loving the mega corps with hundreds of billions and who starting the outsourcing of everything to China. You see the result now.
    Last edited by matt4pack; 11-13-16 at 02:42 PM.
    11-13-16 02:02 PM
  23. Yatezy's Avatar
    WP7 was not a modern OS. It was based on WindowsCE which was a legacy OS. They didn't move to the NT kernel in mobile until long after ios and android were already dominant.

    Having the supposed head start is what actually killed them as they had a legacy OS to support just like Palm, Blackberry, and Nokia. They didn't have a fresh start like Apple and Google. Man some of you guys a just ignorant of technology acting like WP7 was a modern OS.
    That's what we have been saying. They came in with a fresh start and ideas.

    You are the one claiming they were bullying the little guys with pure money might. When in fact they were the little guys with zero phone experience and they succeeded because they had better ideas.

    The others didn't act fast enough and got left behind. Nothing to do with bullying. The little guys become the big guns and took over. They made the specialists look silly.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-13-16 02:07 PM
  24. matt4pack's Avatar
    That's what we have been saying. They came in with a fresh start and ideas.

    You are the one claiming they were bullying the little guys with pure money might. When in fact they were the little guys with zero phone experience and they succeeded because they had better ideas.

    The others didn't act fast enough and got left behind. Nothing to do with bullying. The little guys become the big guns and took over. They made the specialists look silly.
    And as I've said that's a whole lot easier when you don't have to worry about any legacy users and pretty much unlimited money to fund your new endeavor or as you call it fresh ideals. Sorry but Google and Apple were never the little guys unless you're going back to like 1999. They were already tech heavyweights by the the mid 2000's. They were both much larger and with many more resources and their hands in much more.
    11-13-16 02:15 PM
  25. Yatezy's Avatar
    And as I've said that's a whole lot easier when you don't have to worry about your legacy users and pretty much unlimited money to fund your new endeavor or as you call it fresh ideals. Sorry but Google and Apple were never the little guys. Maybe just in the phone business but they were already tech heavyweights. They were both much larger and with many more resources.
    No one has denied that they were tech heavyweights. Its just been refuted that they got successful because they had unlimited resources, that isnt the case. Microsoft had all the same attributes as Apple and probably even more money than them at the time but they didnt have the idea or execution.

    Apple is pretty much the reason today why we have a smartphone market like it currently is.
    11-13-16 02:23 PM
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