11-14-16 01:54 PM
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  1. donnation's Avatar
    My Z10 had better battery life than my girlfriend's Samsung galaxy S3 and at least as good or better than her kid's iPhone 5. ( those were the phones of early 2013). I say had because while my z10 is alive and kicking and still used daily, the S3 and iPhone 5 are now bricks.

    Posted via CB10
    The Z10's battery life was trash. The iPhone 5 which was released a year earlier than the Z10 is still supported by Apple and is compatible with iOS 10, so if they are bricks they must have been self bricked.
    10-24-16 04:29 AM
  2. donnation's Avatar
    3D Touch is a big improvement of recent iPhones, but my understanding is you still have to navigate from the active app to the home screen, then into Settings and back to the app you're working in:

    1. Press home button to get home screen.
    2. 3d press Settings (if it's on the home screen and not inside a folder or on another screen)
    3. Select new WiFi network
    4. Double click home for task switcher
    5. Return to app.

    Am I missing something? Can you use 3D touch to avoid the Home screen and access WiFi settings from inside an active app?

    Posted via CB10
    No, but you can make the claim about any phone causing "cognitive load." I print a lot from my phone. In order to do that with BB10 I have to open up a separate printing app and print from there, as opposed to printing from wherever I am with the iPhone. That increases "cognitive load"

    My point being that while switching wifi networks might be something that you need to do often, it may not be something that most people need to do constantly like I guess you do. And even if they do the one or two seconds it takes them to do it isn't causing them a massive problem. Just like printing for me works with BB10, its built in better with iOS, but that doesn't mean the few extra seconds it takes me to print with BB10 wouldn't make me not want to use it because its wasting my time.
    TgeekB likes this.
    10-24-16 04:58 AM
  3. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Of course that's true. There is always a "switching cost" when one moves from one platform to another, but that's not really the issue in my opinion, because that's a one-time cost.

    The much more important issue is the number of STEPS required to complete frequent tasks, [....]

    For example, while I am typing this (on BB10), I'm experiencing intermittent connection issues over my main work WiFi and need to switch over from one network to another. The required steps in BB10 are

    1. Swipe up to home screen
    2. Swipe down for quick settings
    3. Click to select WiFi
    4. Select to select the new network
    5. Swipe up
    6. Click to return to original app

    [...]

    Posted via CB10
    Two-finger swipe down... saves another few steps... :-)
    (10.3.2)

      "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D  
    10-24-16 06:15 AM
  4. z10Jobe's Avatar
    The Z10's battery life was trash. The iPhone 5 which was released a year earlier than the Z10 is still supported by Apple and is compatible with iOS 10, so if they are bricks they must have been self bricked.
    I have been using my z10 as my daily driver for over 3 years, and have never carried extra batteries or a charger and haven't run out of charge yet. If the battery was as bad as you say it is, I would always be running into problems and therefore wouldn't be using it ( it is my work phone as well). It ain't a great battery, (the worst of all blackberries that I have owned) but it is managable (and swappable).

    Can't say the same about the Samsung S3 and iPhone 5 I mentioned ( which were the 2 big phones when the z10 came out). They are currently bricks cuz they stopped working. The z10, on the other hand, very durable.

    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 06:46 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No, but you can make the claim about any phone causing "cognitive load." I print a lot from my phone. In order to do that with BB10 I have to open up a separate printing app and print from there, as opposed to printing from wherever I am with the iPhone. That increases "cognitive load"

    My point being that while switching wifi networks might be something that you need to do often, it may not be something that most people need to do constantly like I guess you do. And even if they do the one or two seconds it takes them to do it isn't causing them a massive problem. Just like printing for me works with BB10, its built in better with iOS, but that doesn't mean the few extra seconds it takes me to print with BB10 wouldn't make me not want to use it because its wasting my time.
    If printing from your phone is a frequent activity, then your analysis is exactly right. It's a pain in BB10, and is much better on the iPhone. You seem to be saying that the difference is minor, and what I'm saying us that this stuff matters A LOT.

    Minimizing the friction, or to be technical, the "cognitive load" of users is the single most important element of human interface design. For people who rely on their phones to make them effective at work, the choice of a device can, to varying degrees, influence one's career trajectory.

    I work with some influential social media personalities, most of whom prefer iPhone precisely because iOS minimizes the friction involved in posting /sharing / replying to social media while they are out of the office.

    On the other hand, several of my colleagues who are attorneys swear by their physical keyboard devices because they spend most of their days writing heavily edited technical correspondence that they need to be letter-perfect, and the keyboard allows for more accurate writing, and, more importantly, much more precise navigation/selection of text during editing.

    In my opinion there are important differences between Android, iOS, and BB10, and people who really care about their productivity and effectiveness would do well to think carefully about which device is best at "getting out of their way" while they are working.


    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 07:00 AM
  6. tre10's Avatar
    My Z10 had better battery life than my girlfriend's Samsung galaxy S3 and at least as good or better than her kid's iPhone 5. ( those were the phones of early 2013). I say had because while my z10 is alive and kicking and still used daily, the S3 and iPhone 5 are now bricks.

    Posted via CB10
    Battery life is pretty Phone specific. My manager's Z10 gets amazing battery life to this day. When I had mine it needed to be charged by half day. I had cobalt's Google play services installed as well as a ton of Android apps so that may be the reason. My manager doesn't use many apps. She has an android tablet for that.
    10-24-16 11:22 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Of course that's true. There is always a "switching cost" when one moves from one platform to another, but that's not really the issue in my opinion, because that's a one-time cost.

    The much more important issue is the number of STEPS required to complete frequent tasks, even after learning the new platform, regardless of the time difference. My complaint with Apple's entire design philosophy, from a usability standpoint, is that they commonly sacrifice efficiency for simplicity. It's a great approach for the mass market and making money, but it's rarely the best approach for maximizing productivity for power users.

    The iPhone is a great device for many people, but there's no getting around the fact that it is less efficient than either a properly configured Android or BB10 phone when it comes to the range of tasks available within one or two steps from any given state.

    For example, while I am typing this (on BB10), I'm experiencing intermittent connection issues over my main work WiFi and need to switch over from one network to another. The required steps in BB10 are

    1. Swipe up to home screen
    2. Swipe down for quick settings
    3. Click to select WiFi
    4. Select to select the new network
    5. Swipe up
    6. Click to return to original app

    All of that can be completed with my thumb in 4 seconds without changing my grip on my phone, and more importantly, without breaking my concentration.

    Even with iOS10, switching between WiFi networks on my iPhone is markedly less efficient than BB10 was at launch in 2013:

    1. Press home to go to home screen
    2. Navigate to Settings app (which may or may not be on your first home screen)
    3. Select WiFi settings
    4. Select desired WiFi network
    5. Close settings (optional)
    6. Double click home or press/swipe from left to right to open task switcher
    7. Select original task

    This may look like the same number of tasks, but it involves more screens and more complex steps, which has a cognitive cost in terms of work flow.

    Apple has taken a step towards simplifying access to many settings via the swipe-up Control Center, but currently the only WiFi option available there is to toggle it on and off, and wait for a notification for whichever WiFi networks are available, NOT to switch between available networks, which pretty much makes it useless for the use case described.

    I am not trying to bash Apple, which has been the major innovator in handsets over the past decade. But the issues are much more complex than many posters around here acknowledge. It's not simply a matter of the initial learning curve and "what you're used to" when it comes to the objective assessment of cognitive load for the use of an OS interface.




    Posted via CB10
    When BB10 came out some 3rd party group rated iOS, Android , Windows and BB10. The looked strictly at the UI and how intuitive it was to use. Don't remember who won, but BB10 came in last. Granted this was done right after BB10 was launched, and the OS has improved in many ways. But with BB10 you are never sure if it's a BB10 gesture or and Android gesture that you need to make.

    Gestures were still new back then... I had people picking up my phone and not knowing what to do with it. I with a button or buttons... there is a starting place. Now today I think more have an idea about gestures... plus most phones today wake up when you pick them up.
    10-24-16 11:38 AM
  8. donnation's Avatar
    I have been using my z10 as my daily driver for over 3 years, and have never carried extra batteries or a charger and haven't run out of charge yet. If the battery was as bad as you say it is, I would always be running into problems and therefore wouldn't be using it ( it is my work phone as well). It ain't a great battery, (the worst of all blackberries that I have owned) but it is managable (and swappable).

    Can't say the same about the Samsung S3 and iPhone 5 I mentioned ( which were the 2 big phones when the z10 came out). They are currently bricks cuz they stopped working. The z10, on the other hand, very durable.

    Posted via CB10
    I think most would disagree with you on the Z10's battery life. But you've already proven my point. You said the iPhone 5 (which came out nearly a year before the Z10) had comparable battery life. The iPhone 5 was using a 1440mAh battery while the Z10 and 1800mAh battery. The fact that they are even comparable speaks to the fact that Blackberry 10 isn't optimized for smaller batteries and needs a massive battery in it like the Passport to keep it running, or a large battery and a dim screen like on the Z30.
    10-24-16 12:29 PM
  9. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I think most would disagree with you on the Z10's battery life. But you've already proven my point. You said the iPhone 5 (which came out nearly a year before the Z10) had comparable battery life. The iPhone 5 was using a 1440mAh battery while the Z10 and 1800mAh battery. The fact that they are even comparable speaks to the fact that Blackberry 10 isn't optimized for smaller batteries and needs a massive battery in it like the Passport to keep it running, or a large battery and a dim screen like on the Z30.
    I said that the z10 was at least as good or better than the iPhone 5. I think that the z10 was better, but I was being conservative in my assessment. The iPhone 5 has a smaller screen than the z10 and was released maybe 4 months prior to the z10, not a year. Don't forget about Apple's battery replacement program for said iphone.

    Posted via Z10 on original battery.




    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 12:47 PM
  10. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Battery life is pretty Phone specific. My manager's Z10 gets amazing battery life to this day. When I had mine it needed to be charged by half day. I had cobalt's Google play services installed as well as a ton of Android apps so that may be the reason. My manager doesn't use many apps. She has an android tablet for that.
    Well that may help explain why there is varying degrees of opinion on the z10. I have bought 3 z10s, (2 for my kids) with no battery complaints on any of them, while others post on here about terrible battery life. Maybe the swappable battery connection has something to do with it.

    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 01:07 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    My Z10 had better battery life than my girlfriend's Samsung galaxy S3 and at least as good or better than her kid's iPhone 5. ( those were the phones of early 2013). I say had because while my z10 is alive and kicking and still used daily, the S3 and iPhone 5 are now bricks.

    Posted via CB10
    My Z10, and this is only my personal account, had the worst battery life of any phone I have ever owned. To be fair, I got it on day 1 and I know the software improved over time. Things may have improved after I sold it.
    10-24-16 01:14 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think most would disagree with you on the Z10's battery life. But you've already proven my point. You said the iPhone 5 (which came out nearly a year before the Z10) had comparable battery life. The iPhone 5 was using a 1440mAh battery while the Z10 and 1800mAh battery. The fact that they are even comparable speaks to the fact that Blackberry 10 isn't optimized for smaller batteries and needs a massive battery in it like the Passport to keep it running, or a large battery and a dim screen like on the Z30.
    You'll never prove your point.... to him. I don't know how but every 1 in 1000 Z10 gets amazing battery life. While vast majority of us were switching out batteries half way through the day.

    The thing is we know that the Z10 and BB10 were FLOPS. They point of this thread was why was the iPhone a success.

    I don't remember the Apple battery replacement issue... but at least Apple owned up and fixed whatever the issue was. Did BlackBerry own up to the design flaw in the STORM and fix it? Did BlackBerry own up to the lack of updating the PlayBook.. offer any compensation? Did BlackBerry who was at one time known for battery life... provide Z10 users with one of the rechargeable battery packs for free? Did BlackBerry deliver even half of the Apps that were on the big board? BlackBerry is a use them and leave them type of company..... that's why they failed. Apple is very interested in meeting the needs of their users, and how those users view them long term..... thus they are successful.
    MikeX74 likes this.
    10-24-16 01:23 PM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    I'm more interested in how the battery defies the physical laws of the Universe given that they degrade over time and three years out...
    10-24-16 01:30 PM
  14. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    10-24-16 01:42 PM
  15. MikeX74's Avatar
    Relevance?
    10-24-16 02:41 PM
  16. donnation's Avatar
    I'm more interested in how the battery defies the physical laws of the Universe given that they degrade over time and three years out...
    Magic?
    cgk likes this.
    10-24-16 02:52 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    So you bend your phone too much and it's Apple's fault?

    Have to wonder how many sign up to that suit, aren't sporting an iPhone 7 right now. Might be an issue with the phone being more prone to bending, but that doesn't mean they won't buy another one.
    10-24-16 02:59 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    My Z10, and this is only my personal account, had the worst battery life of any phone I have ever owned. To be fair, I got it on day 1 and I know the software improved over time. Things may have improved after I sold it.
    The more important issue is recognition that battery life may be incredibly important or not at all important to any particular user depending on his/her typical use case.

    For two years I flew 10-15 legs a week, traveling to 8-10 cities per week. I regularly needed 16+ hours of very hard working time per day with no opportunities to recharge. Moreover, I did not want to carry any extra gear such as extra batteries. My most important function was email communication, to prepare for and follow up on my meetings in each city. In that environment, the only acceptable phone for me was a BBOS phone (my old BlackBerry 9700), which would NEVER run out of juice on me. No candy bar style phone would have gotten the job done.

    Nowadays, it's rare when I need a phone to last more than a couple of hours on battery, as I'm almost always at a place I can plug in (to an outlet, my laptop or my car), but I absolutely need to be able to see my screen in broad daylight on sunny days. My Z10 is great in that respect, and it's no trouble for me to carry the extra battery / charging kit for those occasions when I'm away from power for extended periods.

    So, while it's certainly useful to compare battery life between devices, it's always a balancing act, and what's important for one user might be meaningless to another.

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB and johnsliderbb like this.
    10-24-16 04:27 PM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    The more important issue is recognition that battery life may be incredibly important or not at all important to any particular user depending on his/her typical use case.

    For two years I flew 10-15 legs a week, traveling to 8-10 cities per week. I regularly needed 16+ hours of very hard working time per day with no opportunities to recharge. Moreover, I did not want to carry any extra gear such as extra batteries. My most important function was email communication, to prepare for and follow up on my meetings in each city. In that environment, the only acceptable phone for me was a BBOS phone (my old BlackBerry 9700), which would NEVER run out of juice on me. No candy bar style phone would have gotten the job done.

    Nowadays, it's rare when I need a phone to last more than a couple of hours on battery, as I'm almost always at a place I can plug in (to an outlet, my laptop or my car), but I absolutely need to be able to see my screen in broad daylight on sunny days. My Z10 is great in that respect, and it's no trouble for me to carry the extra battery / charging kit for those occasions when I'm away from power for extended periods.

    So, while it's certainly useful to compare battery life between devices, it's always a balancing act, and what's important for one user might be meaningless to another.

    Posted via CB10
    Great points and I couldn't agree more. Like you said, when battery life and email were the most important things, the BBOS devices couldn't be beat. Now, most people are looking for a balance. For that most devices these days, in my opinion, have decent enough battery life.
    10-24-16 04:37 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You'll never prove your point.... to him. I don't know how but every 1 in 1000 Z10 gets amazing battery life. While vast majority of us were switching out batteries half way through the day.

    The thing is we know that the Z10 and BB10 were FLOPS. They point of this thread was why was the iPhone a success.

    I don't remember the Apple battery replacement issue... but at least Apple owned up and fixed whatever the issue was. Did BlackBerry own up to the design flaw in the STORM and fix it? Did BlackBerry own up to the lack of updating the PlayBook.. offer any compensation? Did BlackBerry who was at one time known for battery life... provide Z10 users with one of the rechargeable battery packs for free? Did BlackBerry deliver even half of the Apps that were on the big board? BlackBerry is a use them and leave them type of company..... that's why they failed. Apple is very interested in meeting the needs of their users, and how those users view them long term..... thus they are successful.
    In the larger sense, Apple was successful because they saw the value of producing a smartphone for consumers. Blackberry had never been a consumer electronics company. Their market was business-to-business fleet sales, and then they lucked into their success with consumers who loved the idea of getting email on their phones.

    Then, BB's mistake was to try to compete with Apple and the major electronics companies in a BYOD world. They would have been much better off harvesting the incredible revenue stream from BBOS and pivoting directly to mobility management and security software back in 2010-13.

    I absolutely love BB10, and still use it daily. For me the US design and work flow was far ahead of both iOS and Android, But it was never going to be more than a niche opportunity because Blackberry never really understood the consumer market and couldn't anticipate what consumers wanted to do on their phones.



    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 04:40 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Two-finger swipe down... saves another few steps... :-)
    (10.3.2)

      "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D  
    LOL. I had completely forgotten about that!

    1. Two finger swipe down for quick settings
    2. Click to select WiFi
    3. Select to select the new network
    4. Swipe up to return to original app

    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 04:45 PM
  22. z10Jobe's Avatar
    You'll never prove your point.... to him. I don't know how but every 1 in 1000 Z10 gets amazing battery life. While vast majority of us were switching out batteries half way through the day.

    The thing is we know that the Z10 and BB10 were FLOPS. They point of this thread was why was the iPhone a success.

    I don't remember the Apple battery replacement issue... but at least Apple owned up and fixed whatever the issue was. Did BlackBerry own up to the design flaw in the STORM and fix it? Did BlackBerry own up to the lack of updating the PlayBook.. offer any compensation? Did BlackBerry who was at one time known for battery life... provide Z10 users with one of the rechargeable battery packs for free? Did BlackBerry deliver even half of the Apps that were on the big board? BlackBerry is a use them and leave them type of company..... that's why they failed. Apple is very interested in meeting the needs of their users, and how those users view them long term..... thus they are successful.
    Umm.. I have bought 3 z10s. 2 are still used daily.
    No battery dead by noon issues that you speak of. Soo.. your 1 in a thousand to the power 3 is one in a billion. I really should buy lottery tickets.

    Do you actually use a z10 on BlackBerry 10.3? If not, please do not give 1/1000 stats.

    The z10 battery isn't great, clearly the worst of any BlackBerry, but it is swappable and was par for the course in the smartphone world of early 2013.

    Via z10.



    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 05:21 PM
  23. z10Jobe's Avatar
    LOL. I had completely forgotten about that!

    1. Two finger swipe down for quick settings
    2. Click to select WiFi
    3. Select to select the new network
    4. Swipe up to return to original app

    Posted via CB10
    Actually you can just tap the top of the screen from the home page. No need for that strenuous 2 finger swipe.

    Posted via CB10
    10-24-16 05:23 PM
  24. Nguyen1's Avatar
    Great points and I couldn't agree more. Like you said, when battery life and email were the most important things, the BBOS devices couldn't be beat. Now, most people are looking for a balance. For that most devices these days, in my opinion, have decent enough battery life.
    Bbos can't be beat for battery. My 9930 lasts me a WEEK before I recharge. Granted, I use it lightly but I do use it every day for at least an hour. No modern phone, absolutely ZERO of them, can compare.

    Plus, I can see the screen clearly in direct sunlight. On dim setting, even.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE
    10-24-16 05:26 PM
  25. donnation's Avatar
    I said that the z10 was at least as good or better than the iPhone 5. I think that the z10 was better, but I was being conservative in my assessment. The iPhone 5 has a smaller screen than the z10 and was released maybe 4 months prior to the z10, not a year. Don't forget about Apple's battery replacement program for said iphone.

    Posted via Z10 on original battery.




    Posted via CB10
    Lol oh right, 4 inches vs. 4.2 inches. Also, It was actually 6 months earlier than the Z10, but that's splitting hairs I guess. Yeah I forgot about the battery replacement program because it was a such a small percentage of phones. I'm glad BB stepped up for the random rebooting issue that the Z10 had... I get you somehow had amazing battery life with your Z10, but you're in the very small minority of people in here. And that's not even the point. The discussion was on how BB has optimized BB10 to get incredible batter life, and that's just not the case. For any phone they have released there has been a tradeoff to get decent battery life, if the phone in fact got decent battery life. If not they had to put a massive battery in the phone to make it last, which doesn't speak at all to BB10 being optimized.
    10-24-16 06:01 PM
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