[rfalter]

And will it matter anymore regardless.....everyone is moving on, whether they like it or not...

RIM earnings preview: Bleak, disappointing, 'terrible' | Mobile - CNET News

[Pete6]

RIM is such an easy target for journalists today that if RIM were a minor, it would be child abuse.

Of COURSE RIM will be there for BB10 to be announced. However that product had better be pretty damn good if it is to stop the rot.

I am not complaining at the OP but I really wish that people would stop posting this stuff. I mean, you think we don't know what is happening.

Personally I would have given this particular journalist a lot more credit if he has analyzed the numbers AFTER they had been announed instead of spreading more doom and gloom based on no knowledge.

[jrohland]

You are joking right? The Press is lazy and make stuff up. We all know they lie and write fiction but somehow when it is a RIM story, people believe them.

[app_Developer]

You are joking right? The Press is lazy and make stuff up. We all know they lie and write fiction but somehow when it is a RIM story, people believe them.

So when you say that do you mean that you believe the numbers today and for the August quarter will be good?

[Saiga]

RIM is such an easy target for journalists today that if RIM were a minor, it would be child abuse.

Of COURSE RIM will be there for BB10 to be announced. However that product had better be pretty damn good if it is to stop the rot.

I am not complaining at the OP but I really wish that people would stop posting this stuff. I mean, you think we don;t know what is happening.

Personally I would have given this particular journalist a lot more credit if he has analyzed the numbers AFTER they had been announed instead of spreading more doom and gloom based on no knowledge.

That wont be enough. WebOS was pretty darn good but it couldn't save Palm. The Nokia lumia N900 is a very good phone. Universally loved by every reviewer I have seen review it. Yet it hasn't done anything to help Nokia.

RIM needs to change people's opinions of them. IF RIM can't do that; then when BB10 launches it will be business as usual. The media will say "this is the best BlackBerry ever, but it is still a BlackBerry. You should buy an iPhone or the latest Android". The normal everyday consumer will still think "blakcberies are slow". The carrier's will still shove the latest Android or iPhone in everyone's face and do everything in their power to prevent people venturing to the back of the store where they may see a tiny BlackBerry 10 presence. And the BlackBerry faithful will go buy one. Just like a lot of us did with BlackBerry 7 devices.

RIM faces a huge challenge. Consumers and carriers in America seem to be perfectly happy with there only being two options.

[mnhockeycoach99]

I'm tired of these posts/articles too. Seriously, what is with the media? RIM is struggling so lets continue to kick/stab them...

Regarding RIM surviving to BB10 release, do people not realize that the world is still buying RIM devices? Companies (like the one I work for) are refreshing their stock of old handsets (my company is moving from old Bold 9700s/9780s to 9900s/9930s). . Companies/governments may not be buying as many BlackBerrys but they still are buying them. Consumers are still buying them too (I just bought my wife a 9900 to replace her ailing 9800), especially overseas. While everyone thought RIM had terrible financial results last quarter, they actually made $400 million in net income... their net loss was a result of the non-cash accounting treatments (inventory and goodwill writedowns). Even if RIM's revenues aren't enough to cover expenses, they still have $2 BILLION dollars of cash on their balance sheet as a safety net to get through this transition period.



P.s. Peter Misek is a moron who doesn't know his a_shole from a hole in the ground. Anyone who takes his investment/financial advice might as well just light their money on fire and be done with it.

[menaknow]

That wont be enough. WebOS was pretty darn good but it couldn't save Palm.

WebOS was dead because of lack of support for HP. With second rate hardware and lack of upper management support it was to be expected. There was a good article earlier on the demise of WebOS or something. I would recommend it as a read as it was quite interesting.

The Nokia lumia N900 is a very good phone. Universally loved by every reviewer I have seen review it. Yet it hasn't done anything to help Nokia.

Nokia's N900 was at end of life for the OS. Nokia themselves announced it.

RIM needs to change people's opinions of them. IF RIM can't do that; then when BB10 launches it will be business as usual. The media will say "this is the best BlackBerry ever, but it is still a BlackBerry. You should buy an iPhone or the latest Android". The normal everyday consumer will still think "blakcberies are slow". The carrier's will still shove the latest Android or iPhone in everyone's face and do everything in their power to prevent people venturing to the back of the store where they may see a tiny BlackBerry 10 presence. And the BlackBerry faithful will go buy one. Just like a lot of us did with BlackBerry 7 devices.

RIM faces a huge challenge. Consumers and carriers in America seem to be perfectly happy with there only being two options.

One of the issues is that the consumers of today are perfectly happy with being told what is good. I find it rare now that people do investigation themselves, what would work for them.

BB10 will be RIM's last hope to change the media's opinion, but it won't be easy.

Not to sound like a fan boy, but I am perfectly fine with my 9900 as it works well for me. I get my friends asking me though "Why don't you switch to device x", only to be perplex with the response, this is the most useful phone for me...

[Pete6]

I'm tired of these posts/articles too. Seriously, what is with the media? RIM is struggling so lets continue to kick/stab them...

Regarding RIM surviving to BB10 release, do people not realize that the world is still buying RIM devices? Companies (like the one I work for) are refreshing their stock of old handsets (my company is moving from old Bold 9700s/9780s to 9900s/9930s). . Companies/governments may not be buying as many BlackBerrys but they still are buying them. Consumers are still buying them too (I just bought my wife a 9900 to replace her ailing 9800), especially overseas. While everyone thought RIM had terrible financial results last quarter, they actually made $400 million in net income... their net loss was a result of the non-cash accounting treatments (inventory and goodwill writedowns). Even if RIM's revenues aren't enough to cover expenses, they still have $2 BILLION dollars of cash on their balance sheet as a safety net to get through this transition period.



P.s. Peter Misek is a moron who doesn't know his a_shole from a hole in the ground. Anyone who takes his investment/financial advice might as well just light their money on fire and be done with it.

I agree with all of the above 'cept I don't know Peter Misek.

The trouble is, unless we respond to these posts and to try and inject some common sense into these one-sided discussions, everyone will believe what these morons say in their articles. I wish people would not post them but, I already said that.

RIM has, as you say, $2M it has huge revenues fro its network business and still more from all the patents it holds.

It is far easier to write bad news than good. Just look at TV soap scripts for more proof.

[Saiga]

WebOS was dead because of lack of support for HP. With second rate hardware and lack of upper management support it was to be expected. There was a good article earlier on the demise of WebOS or something. I would recommend it as a read as it was quite interesting.

HP gave WebOS horrible support. But Palm made WebOS. WebOS didn't do anything to help save Palm. Not sure how HP's lack of support for an OS they had nothing to do with at the time would affect Palm.

Nokia's N900 was at end of life for the OS. Nokia themselves announced it.

The Nokia N900 is Windows. That OS isn't dead yet. No one is buying them but it is still alive.


One of the issues is that the consumers of today are perfectly happy with being told what is good. I find it rare now that people do investigation themselves, what would work for them.

BB10 will be RIM's last hope to change the media's opinion, but it won't be easy.

Not to sound like a fan boy, but I am perfectly fine with my 9900 as it works well for me. I get my friends asking me though "Why don't you switch to device x", only to be perplex with the response, this is the most useful phone for me...

I am also very happy with my 9930. I am overjoyed with it to be honest. I love everything about it. Actually the only ways it could be better in my opinion is if it had Bluetooth 4.0 and 4G LTE. If it had those two things it would be perfect in my book. I fully plan on having my 99 for a few more years and I am considering buying a second one when the price drops. The second one will be a spare for when my original wears out.

[kbz1960]

The nokia phone has the same problem bb OS7 phones have. No update to the new OS.

[Saiga]

The nokia phone has the same problem bb OS7 phones have. No update to the new OS.

Oh crap. I didn't realize that.

Sorry menaknow, I thought you may have been thinking about the Nokia N9

[Sith_Apprentice]

RIM has 2 billion in cash last report, and this is a good amount of cash for them. They will certainly make it until BB10 is released, the issue will be, at that time, will it be enough. The hardware will be there, as will the OS, but will the apps and the content? And even if all the pieces are in place, will the customers buy it.

[Pete6]

RIM has 2 billion in cash last report, and this is a good amount of cash for them. They will certainly make it until BB10 is released, the issue will be, at that time, will it be enough. The hardware will be there, as will the OS, but will the apps and the content? And even if all the pieces are in place, will the customers buy it.

The things that worry me about BB10's launch are :

- hardware problems
- OS bugs
- bits missing from the OS that people need
- the strangeness of it all
- missing apps
- RIM screws up the launch in some way

I am not in the slightst bit worrind about RIM getting to the launch date since it has a full piggy bank. I am worried that any of the above will allow the Apple oreineted press to bash RIM over their new product. RIM HAS to get this new product very nearly right fist time.

Mercedes-Benz AMG have a saying in their factory that translates from German as "Perfection is not good enough.", this where RIM's head has to be with BB10.

[app_Developer]

RIM has 2 billion in cash last report, and this is a good amount of cash for them. They will certainly make it until BB10 is released, the issue will be, at that time, will it be enough. The hardware will be there, as will the OS, but will the apps and the content? And even if all the pieces are in place, will the customers buy it.

You also have to consider that it will take 2-3 quarters, at least, after launch for BB10 sales to really establish themselves. Those will be 2-3 quarters of heavy marketing and sales spending (we hope!) as they try to seed that ecosystem. So that puts us out to summer of 2013 at least before BB10 has any real positive financial impact, even if it is "successful".

[dbmalloy]

RIM faces two challenges....

Lazy media.... who do not investigate anything and simply copy each others news story and put it out as fact ( weekend story of RIM splitting off hardware division comes to mind)... actual facts dor not seem to matter....It will get worse with the financial report due this afterniooon......

The other more important question... Does RIM actually know how to market BB10 in the current market.... Yes BB10 needs to be super fantastic.... however.... if you do not market it correctly it will not matter.... unfortuantely RIM has not shown great ideas via marketing any products.... the Playbook being a perfect example.....

RIM will indeed make it to launch... but after that who knows......

[Sith_Apprentice]

You also have to consider that it will take 2-3 quarters at least for BB10 sales to really establish themselves. Those will be 2-3 quarters of heavy marketing and sales expenditures as they try to establish that ecosystem. So that puts us out to summer of 2013 at least before BB10 has any real positive financial impact, even if it is "successful".

You are correct, but there are still sales coming in, in the mean time, and while they will definitely be eating into that 2B, they are still clean of debt. Initial sales will help offset advertising expenditures (especially if they can get the government approvals pushed through on the back of the current PB OS), and continuing to sell out of existing BB7 devices will also help. I am not, by any means, saying it will be an easy road. I am stating that RIM will make the BB10 launch, beyond. Without a BB10 success though, that wont last long.

[Sucroid]

One of the issues is that the consumers of today are perfectly happy with being told what is good. I find it rare now that people do investigation themselves, what would work for them.

Does that mean consumers are just as lazy as "journalists"?

[BoldPreza]

That wont be enough. WebOS was pretty darn good but it couldn't save Palm. The Nokia lumia N900 is a very good phone. Universally loved by every reviewer I have seen review it. Yet it hasn't done anything to help Nokia.

RIM needs to change people's opinions of them. IF RIM can't do that; then when BB10 launches it will be business as usual. The media will say "this is the best BlackBerry ever, but it is still a BlackBerry. You should buy an iPhone or the latest Android". The normal everyday consumer will still think "blakcberies are slow". The carrier's will still shove the latest Android or iPhone in everyone's face and do everything in their power to prevent people venturing to the back of the store where they may see a tiny BlackBerry 10 presence. And the BlackBerry faithful will go buy one. Just like a lot of us did with BlackBerry 7 devices.

RIM faces a huge challenge. Consumers and carriers in America seem to be perfectly happy with there only being two options.

The Palm comparison is definitely closer. But at the same time Palm had been in trouble for many years in terms of cash flow. RIM still has a healthy cash flow, well right up to the end of last year so they aren't launching BB 10 from the same place that Palm did the Pre.

The WebOS launch also launched really well for what it is and had they done a complete product instead of the cash strapped model that launched it would have been fine. The Pre had a pretty terrible keyboard, really cheap housing and basically the OS was great but it was held back by everything else included in the phone. I say this as I hold a Pre in my hand.

BB 10, I don't get the feeling that they are going to go for cheap. Also they have the fall back spot of business. They have a growing consumer base in international markets(Palm didn't have this), they have a pretty good cash hoard and they haven't messed up the marketing launch of this product yet either(Palm did that too, seriously, that woman was CREEPY!!!)

As to the OP, yea its only three months away, RIM isn't going to disappear in three months. Get bought out? Maybe, disappear? No.

[undone]

If BB's current fan base like the (new) phone there will be gobs of free advertising. Word of mouth means so much more then a bill board. They need to make there fan(boyz/girlz) in love with the damnable device. Putting the Crack back in the Berry so to speak.

You do that plus a sold marketing plan, you fix your image.

[FR33MAN]

When these tech journalists are speaking about RIM they speak with the US market share in mind.
They do not mention Asia, South America for exemple.
The difference between palm and rim is that actually rim had a lot of user that have tried their product from company and the actual user base. The experience was good or not but actually get the important point: email efficiency,very good connectivity (call quality, ...), good battery but an OS that is at the end of his life. And people had always a good "image" of rim as a first smartphone.
If they are able to market well the new OS that will be at minimum at the level of competitor I'm pretty sure a lot of people will come back in that area (north america especially). From all the other country around the world from people actually having a BB, these guys then will probably continue with bb10.
Because why are in North america people switching? Not enough app and an OS at the end.
From what we have seen so far: RIM pushing hard to get apps and a new OS.
I put my 2 cents that the next quarter will not be good as weel then it will depends on the release date of bb10 devices. This was my 2 cents

[Drayk]

OK.....I've read most of these posts and the theme is: The media is to blame.
RIM IS TO BLAME. This IS NOT an attempt to pile on.....

Personally, I'm frustrated. We have a little something here called marketing....advertising. FREAKIN USE IT!!!!
You don't need to give anything away. Say we've changed....we're new....get cocky and tell the consumer (in commercials) we're gonna take over the world. Show things that have already been released. That stuff TOTALLY breaks the "BB Mold" so show the consumer.....The people you need to convince are the people who don't know BB or the people who think a BB is still an 8300....For christ sakes.....get serious....please make the BB die-hards believe you really want this to work!!!!

[OniBerry]

The time to begin advertising was gone a few months back. Can't advertise vaporware (Like it or not, with a Q1 '13 push, that is what BB10 is right now to the media and the general consumers)

Maybe they can stave off death by licensing their OS out.

[rfalter]

I started this thread this morning, but waited to respond in general (not this quote below).....I read some of these responses and think people are living in Disneyland or such. IF the product did something that just about every Android and iPhone do not do, reason to live. People keep going that developers have to start being convinced to write apps for BB.....its not happening. Companies DO reach the end of their lifetime for various reasons....Nokia dying, Palm, who started an important section of the category. EVERYTHING is written for Apple and Google. I'd like to do some of my banking on my Torch 9810.....can't, no app for it, and don't tell me to use the browser, I need the info before I grow old. Forget 10, forget selling BB's in India. Forget security, because I have friends who work for major banks and brokerage houses that use iPhones without security issues. I've had BB's since there were BB's, and it saddens me what the egos of the powers that be did. They had plenty of time to play catch up, but didn't. Even the games stink. I don't have a smartphone for games, but MOST PEOPLE WANT THEM. The tail doesn't wag the dog, people are voting with their wallets, whether you think they are robots or not. They want cool phones. And today, the stock's trading was halted because it took such a hit. And it keeps taking the hit. Yes, they have billions, it can go away, trust me. Companies 100x bigger have failed, if you think RIMM is to big to fail, wake up.

RIM faces two challenges....

Lazy media.... who do not investigate anything and simply copy each others news story and put it out as fact ( weekend story of RIM splitting off hardware division comes to mind)... actual facts dor not seem to matter....It will get worse with the financial report due this afterniooon......

The other more important question... Does RIM actually know how to market BB10 in the current market.... Yes BB10 needs to be super fantastic.... however.... if you do not market it correctly it will not matter.... unfortuantely RIM has not shown great ideas via marketing any products.... the Playbook being a perfect example.....

RIM will indeed make it to launch... but after that who knows......

[madman0141]

I think the chances are good. I will leave only when there is no more BlackBerry.

[kennyliu]

The nokia phone has the same problem bb OS7 phones have. No update to the new OS.

There are a couple differences.

- WP8 will be able to run WP7 apps.

- There will be tons of apps for WP8 when it's released due to a huge developer support of the Windows ecosystem.