1. Disparishun's Avatar
    Why wouldn't RIM announce a loyalty program that goes something like this: for the first six months after the BB10 release, an OS7 device can be traded in for the touchscreen BB10 device.

    This would massively improve upgrades to OS7, since so many of us or so many of our employers are waiting it out until the BB10 devices instead. At the same time, it would kickstart BB10 and, in particular, the L-series -- the harder sell, since so many of us are all about the keyboard -- with a user base that RIM and OS10 desperately need at start-up.

    The cost of giving away new touchscreen devices is nothing to sneeze out, I realize. But I am thinking that the cost of not doing so is higher. Especially when weighed against the rewards of: (1) kick-starting the OS10 user base; (2) creating a healthy sales sheet for the OS7 devices in the meantime; and (3) cementing users' loyalty -- including those who might otherwise buy the iPhone for Xmas, but are persuaded to stay (or convert) with the idea of a shiny, beautiful OS7 Bold device, without foregoing the OS10 revolution when it comes.

    Crazy or not?
    10-09-12 10:24 AM
  2. Masahiro's Avatar
    It is crazy. So I could just buy a Curve with OS7 for a few hundred bucks, and trade it in for a top-of-the-line BB10 phone...? Pinch me.
    10-09-12 10:39 AM
  3. amjass12's Avatar
    the thought of such an initiative make my mouth water (even though theres nothing to be eaten lol)... even though i know nothing about business... i have a feeling this will never ever happen... although apart from the cost of it.. your reasons are sound
    10-09-12 10:41 AM
  4. Roo Zilla's Avatar

    Crazy or not?
    Yes, because RIM doesn't need help losing more money, they're doing just fine on that front.
    oldtimeBBaddict likes this.
    10-09-12 10:45 AM
  5. amjass12's Avatar
    what i think is a better proposition is, those who recently purchased contracts with an 0s7 phone that are tied down with a 2year contracts are entitled to a free upgrade for an bb10 phone. Even now, while RIM and the vendor have nothing to do with a customers decision, i feel like i would be cheated if i got an os7 device not knowing that bb10 is coming out in a few months... so it would be a nice thing to do. and of course for who have had their contract os7 phone for ages but are not quite at their upgrade... it would be nice to recieve a fresh bb10 device early!
    10-09-12 10:46 AM
  6. black.rhino's Avatar
    I don't see how they can do that, as people would start snapping up used OS7 BB's on eBay, claiming they were BB loyals all along...
    I know some carriers have allowed early upgrades in the past for iPhones, maybe RIM can work something out there. Other than that, I don't expect to be given special treatment just because my phone will go obsolete in a few months. Every used android?
    10-09-12 11:39 AM
  7. Disparishun's Avatar
    The counter-factual is: how much would it cost them for already-not-so-great OS7 sales to slow down more and more, to bleed Xmas shoppers to other platforms, and to have anemic sales of the touchscreen device among those waiting for the keyboard OS10 device? Would that cost more than the OS7-to-OS10 device upgrades?

    If not a straight trade-in, should they at least create a discount program -- trade in your OS7 device, get X% off an OS10 L-series device? The math on what they would lose per unit through a straight trade is pretty obvious. But is the OS10 transition truly a bet-the-company phase? If so, is it worth investing money in that transition in this way? Or is the transition going to be so obviously successful, is the OS7 sales prognosis so good, and is it so self-evident that touchscreen BB10 devices will fly off the shelves, that all this would just be overkill?

    It is crazy. So I could just buy a Curve with OS7 for a few hundred bucks, and trade it in for a top-of-the-line BB10 phone...? Pinch me.
    An L-series, touchscreen BlackBerry, mind you -- the one that it is going to be the biggest leap for people to adopt, and where ramping up to a sizable installed base is going to be harfest. This is not the keyboard N-series or the top-of-the-line Aristo or whatever else appears later. It's the first-released model, whose take-up is going to be so important.

    Yes, because RIM doesn't need help losing more money, they're doing just fine on that front.
    I disagree, actually. On the PlayBooks, when they charged a per-unit price that kept each unit profitable, they suffered greatly. At lower prices, they flew off the shelves -- and began to create the kind of installed base that a new product needs to foster new apps and marketplace acceptance. Are you saying that, no matter what happens with OS7 sales and OS10 sales, RIM would be crazy to do anything that would cause them to lose money on individual units -- even if the result was anemic sales and a PR disaster that caused the company long-term harm?

    I know some carriers have allowed early upgrades in the past for iPhones, maybe RIM can work something out there. Other than that, I don't expect to be given special treatment just because my phone will go obsolete in a few months. Every used android?
    To be clear, this isn't about giving you special treatment because your phone will go obsolete in a few months. It's about investing in improved sales by giving people a reason to spend money on BB7 devices now, and to stay with the platform as it transitions to BB10. I just don't think that this is simply a run-of-the-mill transition like upgrading from one Android platform to another. The question is how much a successful transition is worth here. No idea how many OS7 devices are out there and would be likely to be traded in (for an L-series device or a discount on an L-series device) during the six-month (or whatever) window. But it's surely a quantifiable number.
    Last edited by Disparishun; 10-09-12 at 02:34 PM.
    10-09-12 02:22 PM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    While users who have stayed with BB through it all would love this deal... Loss Leaders are not effective with the currently loyal. Loss Leaders are only effective when trying to build new or recover lost customers.

    Simply put, the loyal aren't leaving. They'll still be there tomorrow. Any effort should be to entice former users back.

    Similar threads with this same concept pop up with every impending new device release. Wishful thinking. Ain't gonna happen.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    10-09-12 03:36 PM
  9. richardat's Avatar
    While users who have stayed with BB through it all would love this deal... Loss Leaders are not effective with the currently loyal. Loss Leaders are only effective when trying to build new or recover lost customers.

    Simply put, the loyal aren't leaving. They'll still be there tomorrow. Any effort should be to entice former users back.

    Similar threads with this same concept pop up with every impending new device release. Wishful thinking. Ain't gonna happen.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    I agree....frankly, in North America, nobody but diehards....and some budget shoppers will be buying a BB until BB10. I think predictions of marketshare going to essentially 0 in NA may yet come true, sad to say.

    However OP, I think you make some great points, and in slightly different circumstances, I think your proposal, while risky, would not at all be crazy, and potentially a great idea.
    10-09-12 05:15 PM
  10. ffejrobins30's Avatar
    How about a loyalty program for guys like me? I've been holding off on my upgrade for just over a year holding out for L-Series. Still using my trusty 9700 until it comes out. Now that's loyalty...
    10-09-12 07:22 PM
  11. moegumby's Avatar
    Wonder if I can trade in my year and a half old car for that new 13 mustang even up. Been loyal to Ford for years!!:-))

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930
    10-09-12 07:47 PM
  12. richardat's Avatar
    How about a loyalty program for guys like me? I've been holding off on my upgrade for just over a year holding out for L-Series. Still using my trusty 9700 until it comes out. Now that's loyalty...
    Absolutely nothing for you. You'll keep waiting and you'll LIKE IT. If you want one, you will say 'I like waiting Mr. Heins!", and you'll tell everyone that waiting is the best part of getting anything. When they are released you'll say "please may I have one Mr. Heins!", and I will consider it. However, I am not a heartless man. If you are truly loyal, you may participate in the new marketing program, for which you will receive a box of Playbooks (retail value of over 230$). To be eligible, you must paint each visible area of your skin with pure black paint for one month. When anyone asks you what you're doing, you will reply: I'm being BOLD! Our marketing department is expecting this to go over very well in the deep south.

    TH
    10-09-12 07:49 PM
  13. Roo Zilla's Avatar

    I disagree, actually. On the PlayBooks, when they charged a per-unit price that kept each unit profitable, they suffered greatly. At lower prices, they flew off the shelves -- and began to create the kind of installed base that a new product needs to foster new apps and marketplace acceptance. Are you saying that, no matter what happens with OS7 sales and OS10 sales, RIM would be crazy to do anything that would cause them to lose money on individual units -- even if the result was anemic sales and a PR disaster that caused the company long-term harm?
    So are you saying that sales of the PB is a rousing success? I think many would disagree. That writing down half a billion dollars was good for the company? I think again, many would disagree. That there exists a robust marketplace of apps for the PB? Again, many would disagree. At this point in their history, RIM would be crazy to do anything that would cause them to suffer any addition significant losses. They're fighting to survive. Don't think for a minute the losses are going to stop soon either, Heins himself has predicted additional quarters of significant losses, even after BB10 is realized.
    10-09-12 10:05 PM
  14. Disparishun's Avatar
    So are you saying that sales of the PB is a rousing success? I think many would disagree. That writing down half a billion dollars was good for the company? I think again, many would disagree. That there exists a robust marketplace of apps for the PB? Again, many would disagree.
    Huh? No, I am saying that by charging high prices to introduce a new product, the PlayBook suffered lousy sales, a huge writedown, and an anemic app situation. Only by charging low prices were they able to get them flying off the shelves. Which makes sense -- low prices bring curious customers.

    At this point in their history, RIM would be crazy to do anything that would cause them to suffer any addition significant losses. They're fighting to survive.
    Yes, obviously. The question is what imperils their survival more, and what will cause more significant losses -- subsidizing each unit en route to a large installed base that kickstarts the new product introduction, or charging a healthy mark-up but ending up with less-than-stellar sales of the L-series units which will kick off the BB10 era. I don't pretend to know the answer: I see one route as exchanging short-term losses for longer-term gains, and the other route as less risky short-term but with the risk of never getting to the long term.
    10-10-12 03:48 PM
  15. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Just want to point out folks that currently RIM has a trade up program. You get X-Amount based on model and condition.

    But for me its a cumbersome system and needs to tie directly into carriers so that when you do upgrade your phone, on top of any trade in offer the carrier has, you get your refund right then and there rather than waiting on RIM. That way you leave right away with your credit and the carrier is the one to make the claim to RIM.
    10-10-12 04:10 PM

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