[RubberChicken76]

. If BB had a god marketing team, things may be very different right now. Staying silent wont help them sell devices.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Every company I've been in gets into this debate when a product doesn't sell. Engineering blames marketing for bad campaigns and not doing enough to promote the product. Marketing blames engineering for buggy, undifferentiated, incomplete or late product. Sales blames engineering and marketing for the things that the two blame each other about for why they can't sell. Marketing and engineering blame sales for not being creative, going door to door etc.

In the end, they're all responsible in one way or another.

[avt123]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Every company I've been in gets into this debate when a product doesn't sell. Engineering blames marketing for bad campaigns and not doing enough to promote the product. Marketing blames engineering for buggy, undifferentiated, incomplete or late product. Sales blames engineering and marketing for the things that the two blame each other about for why they can't sell. Marketing and engineering blame sales for not being creative, going door to door etc.

In the end, they're all responsible in one way or another.

Yes, they are all responsible in the end. I believe that as well. But, if you know ANYTHING about BB, they have ALWAYS had an awful marketing team and some of the worst advertisements/commercials compared to every other smartphone manufacturer (the whole "tools not toys" campaign. That made people think BBs were nothing more than devices to communicate on. Who wants to buy that when they can get another phone that they can communicate on, and have access to everything else a modern smartphone can do? Answer: Only BB diehards) IMO the best BB commercials were the ones done by Verizon.

The point is, barely anyone knows BB10 exists, and there are many that do that just think it's probably the same BB they had in 2008. Engineers and sales are not the ones to really blame for this, unless their sales devision handles the marketing and all the advertisements.

Word of mouth use to work beautifully for BB before the iPhone came out. Once Apple stepped in, everyone else started stepping their advertising game up besides BB. This has not changed yet and is only going to make this worse.

[OniBerry]

Paid trolls? Maybe they are just ex BB users with bad experiences. Or other users that just think the devices look like crap.

When iOS, WP or Android devices get rated really high and great reviews, the trolls come out to play as well. BlackBerry is in the gutter right now. People have been kicking them for a while. Maybe it is more evident because BB and it's userbase is smaller, and BB barely posts "great news". BBOS devices outselling their flagship line is not "great news". Selling 5,000 devices to government employees is nothing anything cares about besides fanboys on this site. iOS and Android dominate the market. That means so do it's users. That also means more trolls to offer.

I do not think BB is being singled out. Did the media make BB wait so long to convert to a modern OS? Did the media make BlackBerry slowly adapt to the iPhones release? Are the trolls causing people to not buy BlackBerry devices that are not advertised at all or have any airtime period? Was BB forced to make the Z30 and exclusive on Verizon? Is it the trolls fault that no one knows BBs can access and use Android apps? Is it the trolls fault that some carriers have put BB10 on the back burner, most likely because the devices are selling like crap compared to the rest of their lineup?

I think the answer is No. Trolls do damage, but not like this. This company did it to itself. Just like Palm. If BB had a god marketing team, things may be very different right now. Staying silent wont help them sell devices.

Logic? In a tin foil conspiracy thread?

[bakron1]

First of all, this is a two way street here folks. So don't start putting all the blame on Verizon. Blackberry hasn't supported the carriers here in the USA like they should have been doing.

You can't blame the carriers for not wanting a product that does not sell because of the lack of advertising,marketing and customer service.

Before you can expect the product to start selling again, you have to promote it and assure the customer you are going to be here for the long haul.

Based on what I have seen here in the USA the last 6 months!!! They have a long way to go.


Sent from using CB Forum App

[Wiki Cydia]

Yes, they are all responsible in the end. I believe that as well. But, if you know ANYTHING about BB, they have ALWAYS had an awful marketing team and some of the worst advertisements/commercials compared to every other smartphone manufacturer (the whole "tools not toys" campaign. That made people think BBs were nothing more than devices to communicate on. Who wants to buy that when they can get another phone that they can communicate on, and have access to everything else a modern smartphone can do? Answer: Only BB diehards) IMO the best BB commercials were the ones done by Verizon.

The point is, barely anyone knows BB10 exists, and there are many that do that just think it's probably the same BB they had in 2008. Engineers and sales are not the ones to really blame for this, unless their sales devision handles the marketing and all the advertisements.

Word of mouth use to work beautifully for BB before the iPhone came out. Once Apple stepped in, everyone else started stepping their advertising game up besides BB. This has not changed yet and is only going to make this worse.

I think the issue is that BBRY has always aimed for enterprise customers, and has done a fine job of bringing them in. When the smartphone market was 90% enterprise, BBRY had a ton of success, even without marketing. But then the market changed, and BBRY struggled to adapt. They did fine against the iPhone (the peak quarter for BBRY unit sales was December 2010 - February 2011, three and a half years after the iPhone launch), but then Android began to do well and BBRY's consumer fortunes turned. BBRY still has more control over enterprise than anyone, but enterprise's role in the market is clearly not what it used to be.

[RubberChicken76]

But, if you know ANYTHING about BB, they have ALWAYS had an awful marketing team

Actually, I know a lot of people there past and present that have worked in marketing. Smart people too, but it boiled down to a couple of giant problems vs. "everyone in marketing at BlackBerry being incompetent", the popular rhetoric here.

- First, there wasn't a 'central' marketing organization before Frank Boulbin. Under Mike and Jim, each of them had parts of marketing and no common CMO to run things with a common set of objectives and budgets. Mike owned the brand and Jim owned the enterprise marketing. Factor in regional marketing, different marketing VPs, competing budgets, objectives and the like. And well, you get a crazy, incohesive mishmash.

2. Second, comes a comes a lack of marketing leadership at the top. Mike is an engineer and Jim is a sales/bus dev guy, yet both are leading these teams and - overruling them. Look at all the PlayBook commercials talking about Flash and multitasking. that's all Mike talking like an engineer, not a marketing person. :-)

3. It becomes difficult to have a marketing launch plan when some of the rug gets pulled out from under you. Frank did unify the marketing org, but obviously there were concerns about his strategic direction, which is definitely not popular here :-) . I also got the sense though - that his initial plans were scuttled by a delayed US launch, the Q10 launching further out than the Z10 than expected, reduced spending during what would have been later phases of the plan.

IMO the best BB commercials were the ones done by Verizon.

I like theirs a lot. I also thought the BlackBerry team could come up with some nuggets too (see ) but did you ever see it anywhere except on the web?

The point is, barely anyone knows BB10 exists,

I don't think awareness of BB10's existence is the problem. ;-) I'd think it's among the following:

- a perceived lack of unique differentiation vs competitors (an engineering problem)
- an app gap (a bus dev/developer relations problem)
- perceived quality issues (an engineering problem)
- Perceived viability issues (a leadership problem)
- Availability of product (A sales problem and marketing problem)
- Understanding of how the new BlackBerry OS is different from the old (a marketing problem)

[Perfectibilist]

Sales reps are usually knowledgeable when it comes to iPhones. Reason being a infant can use a iPhone.

White on White Q10 Baby!

[Bla1ze]

Another tired re/conspiracy post laid to rest.