1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    And what I said is blackberry is NOT reliant on android for anything. Blackberry CAN make Android apps function. But Android /Linux cannot run BB10 OS.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    Android doesn't run BB10 because it doesn't need to.
    BB10 runs Android because there wouldn't even be the sad app situation we have right now, without the Android runtime.

    I am also completely unimpressed by VM and emulators, since I use them for quite some time now.
    I even use Parallels on my Mac, right now.
    Therefore I do not consider the runtime to be great or something awesome. It's a necessity for BlackBerry, because the native ecosystem is a complete and utter joke.

    BlackBerry is fully reliant on the Android runtime (and therefore Google, through the extension "Android") for an ecosystem.
    You can live in denial, and pretend to believe that this isn't the case, but the most important apps for consumers and businesses, won't be found in BBW.

    If Google decides to change something major with Android, the runtime and therefore the current ecosystem BB has, will disappear overnight.
    Thus, the reliance is even more pronounced.

    The funniest thing however, is that you talk about app permissions, but didn't realise that you can't use them for the apps that at least give us an appearance of an ecosystem (the Android ones).
    Since BlackBerry is the source of the runtime, there is no reason I can think of, why it wouldn't incorporate granular app restrictions.
    Ever heard of xPrivacy and xPosed?

    Well, that's how every (rooted) Android phone gains access to granular app permissions. There's no reason why BlackBerry didn't implement something similar, since they have every root access to the Runtime they want.

    http://www.androidpit.com/manage-per...-with-xprivacy

    "Full control over your apps

    XPrivacy is very easy to use once youve got it on your device. The home page lists all the apps that you can make changes to. The checkboxes to the right of the app will allow you to enable/disable constraints against a certain app. Once enabled, you can click on the pencil icon on the left to pull down a list of all the permissions you can enable/disable. For example: If you disable your Facebook app from being able to access your contacts, XPrivacy will instead provide a list with empty or incorrect data."

    (emphasis: FAKE DATA. You can tell your phone to send bogus data to the apps. Which doesn't break apps, since they still get the info they need. It's just completely wrong, but granular per app. I could tell Facebook that I am currently in Kenia, while giving Maps my real location, and the game who wants to access my contacts will get an empty list, while WhatsApp would only get fake contacts. When a bored Android dev can do that in his free time, in 2013 already, I expect a company like BlackBerry to incorporate that into their runtime. If not, I have to wonder how secure, and also privacy minded, BlackBerry truly is. Especially because their ecosystem is basically all Android by now. )
    03-22-15 01:01 PM
  2. fishlove73's Avatar
    People who buy BBs go into it with knowledge about the lack of apps/ ecosystem... it's the reason they buy em. Well, I can speak to everyone but it's was one of the reasons I bought mine. I can talk, text, Web, social (if I wanna be social) handle docs on Blend, play with photos ( because google makes you download a 3rd party camera app if you don't want to use theirs) and I don't have to risk hard bricking to increase my privacy. The APKS that I do have..no special permissions and they run smooth like butter. If a thief gets ahold of a droid...plug into PC..they have everything. Try plugging my BlackBerry in...it wipes securely before you even get a chance. BBM...naturally scrambled, snap chat like timer built in, nothing special to add or consume resources and again..I didn't have to root it, it just simply works that way. If I got pulled over and for some reason the police wanted into my phone(not that I do anything wrong)...they can't get into my phone, but they can get into yours, just plug into PC and bypass passwords.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-22-15 01:38 PM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    People who buy BBs go into it with knowledge about the lack of apps/ ecosystem... it's the reason they buy em. Well, I can speak to everyone but it's was one of the reasons I bought mine. I can talk, text, Web, social (if I wanna be social) handle docs on Blend, play with photos ( because google makes you download a 3rd party camera app if you don't want to use theirs) and I don't have to risk hard bricking to increase my privacy. The APKS that I do have..no special permissions and they run smooth like butter. If a thief gets ahold of a droid...plug into PC..they have everything. Try plugging my BlackBerry in...it wipes securely before you even get a chance. BBM...naturally scrambled, snap chat like timer built in, nothing special to add or consume resources and again..I didn't have to root it, it just simply works that way. If I got pulled over and for some reason the police wanted into my phone(not that I do anything wrong)...they can't get into my phone, but they can get into yours, just plug into PC and bypass passwords.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    Nice Story...
    Lots of factually false statements though, either because you lack the necessary knowledge or because you have an agenda.
    Still not sure about that. Especially because you never reply directly to any of the points made, but go off on something completely unrelated like the BBM scrambling...

    Which confuses me even more, because everyone with the slightest clue, knows that the consumer BBM is, in terms of encryption, one of the most unsecure messengers on the market.
    Scrambling is not encryption. Consumer BBM works without encryption...
    Therefore making things like iMessage or even Whatsapp, more secure by default.

    You also completely fail to understand my point with xPrivacy and xPosed.
    First of all, having a real risk of bricking your device because of well known root methods... Is basically impossible if you follow how to's. And even without those... Root is not a custom ROM AND BlackBerry obviously has the root access to their own Android runtime.

    Secondly, I still wonder why you can't understand the most simple thought I have formulated in my posts in here:
    If BlackBerry allows native apps to have editable app permissions, why not allow it with Android apps?
    Especially when Android is 90% of your ecosystem.

    Concerning "security" and what people can get off from your phone...
    1) Android and iOS phones are encrypted by default. BlackBerries are not.
    2) If your password is strong enough, getting personal information out of an encrypted phone, is basically unfeasable for everyone who isn't part of a 3 letter agency. No win for BB10 here.
    3) You can't just bypass encryption keys, just because it's an Android...

    I think that you lack some knowledge, which even I, as someone who doesn't understand a lot about coding (read as, I have no idea how to write a single line of code), has.

    Concerning your first point...
    So you actively sought a phone, that has the worst ecosystem and basically no apps, to then pay full price.
    And that's the point of a smartphone for you?
    The functions you describe, apart from Blend (and Blend is practically useless for me, just like Apple's continuity) are... Just slightly more sophisticated feature phone functions to be honest.
    You'd be just fine on a feature phone.

    What I don't understand though, is if you're serious when you say that the point of buying a BlackBerry, is to not have an ecosystem or apps.
    How can that be a positive differentiator... Like just.... WHAT????
    Enterprises need apps. Pro users need apps. Consumers need apps. BlackBerry needs apps (At least according to Chen and his rather amusing app neutrality letter).
    JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    03-22-15 05:54 PM
  4. fishlove73's Avatar
    I have all the Apps I need or want 95% of my Apps are Blackberry native. The other 5% don't require permissions. Do YOUR research on BBM and support what you say with links...everything I said about BBM is true. No apps are needed to wipe device, it just does it when too many attemps or the wrong info is imputed.
    Attachment 343113



    No...you have to add privacy and security to your phone. It is not built in like above.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    Aman1007 likes this.
    03-22-15 06:19 PM
  5. fishlove73's Avatar
    And no..Blackberry native Apps are the ones I NEED... and I don't have to give permissions to the dungeonmaster App develper in some third world country sacrificing info. Can these things be done on a droid... sure, I did it with every droid I purchased, some worked OK, some I Bricked but the fact remains that they had to be rooted to give me any kind of privacy. Which Apps do you look for that are not in BlackBerry world??? And more importantly which ones are available in Playstore that make you more " productive"?

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-22-15 06:28 PM
  6. vrud's Avatar
    Consumer BBM works without encryption...
    Therefore making things like iMessage or even Whatsapp, more secure by default.
    Not sure if users are aware but WhatsApp chat messages are easily stolen by other apps from your device. Encryption, scrambling and even device password don't help secure your private data. https://grahamcluley.com/2013/12/and...s-offers-sale/

    Your messenger might boast triple des security (or whatever is the most difficult to decrypt) but a small negligence in user interface can open a bigger hole. Note that hackers don't try to crack complex links, they usually aim at low hanging fruit.

    Similar to iCloud and celebrity pics leaks.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-22-15 07:02 PM
  7. fishlove73's Avatar
    1) Most Blackberry users are not running 90% Android apps...LOL.
    2) A lot of BlackBerry user's don't use the Android Apps that are not Cleared through Amazon or require permissions...we are kinda funny that way.
    3) There are no Android apps that are " must haves" for business... world and BES takes care of everything.
    4) The Android Apps that I do use....dont not get installed if they require permissions and not cleared by Amazon.
    So.. no, google doesn't touch my phone and I get everything done I used to when I had droids and Apples.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-22-15 07:18 PM
  8. gruv4u's Avatar
    You have an option. If you trust BlackBerry and the services they provide. You also take a chance on trusting how they use the information they collect.

    If you don't trust BlackBerry ...

    Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin 10.3.1.1581
    03-22-15 08:05 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You have an option. If you trust BlackBerry and the services they provide. You also take a chance on trusting how they use the information they collect.

    If you don't trust BlackBerry ...

    Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin 10.3.1.1581
    "Trusting" any corporate entity is an exercise in futility IMHO.

    To each his/her own.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-22-15 08:24 PM
  10. fishlove73's Avatar
    http://www.blackberryos.com/content/...ry-stand-6205/

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-22-15 10:06 PM
  11. clickitykeys's Avatar
    This discussion has gone to a strange place. Security and privacy are not the same.

    As someone who is extremely skeptical of privacy on Google, I would still admit that they are quite excellent when it comes to network and data security.

    Q10/10.3.1.821
    03-22-15 11:44 PM
  12. fishlove73's Avatar
    Yes they are.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-23-15 12:35 AM
  13. fishlove73's Avatar
    http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/544...-imessage.html

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-23-15 12:36 AM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Yes they are.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    No, they aren't.

    You invalidate a lot if otherwise salient points when you are unable to understand that maybe, just maybe you might be incorrect.

    Security and privacy are different concepts, and the fact that they are does not necessarily mean BB10 is any less awesome than you think it is.
    03-23-15 12:51 AM
  15. fishlove73's Avatar
    Like I said B4 you have a door on your house and it serves 2 purposes...security and privacy. Internet, Apps and devices it is no different.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-23-15 01:00 AM
  16. fishlove73's Avatar
    Some people might look at targeted Adds a privacy issue only... but when they have your info, already targeted you for that new pair of shoes you performed a generic Internet search for... they sell your info to someone else. And that someone else who bought it may not be as concerned about you as the previous data minning/ marketing firm. Next thing you know... spam, viruses and letters from the Nigerian Prince to help him get his money....then you risk losing money, time and ruined credit out of something that was "just a privacy issue" turn into a security issue.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-23-15 01:07 AM
  17. mornhavon's Avatar
    Some people might look at targeted Adds a privacy issue only... but when they have your info, already targeted you for that new pair of shoes you performed a generic Internet search for... they sell your info to someone else. And that someone else who bought it may not be as concerned about you as the previous data minning/ marketing firm. Next thing you know... spam, viruses and letters from the Nigerian Prince to help him get his money....then you risk losing money, time and ruined credit out of something that was "just a privacy issue" turn into a security issue.
    You do realize that Google serves the ad content to you directly, right? They sell indirect access to your eyeballs, they don't sell YOU. If you think they're giving the shoe company your name, address and a list of your search history... Yikes.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-23-15 05:02 AM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    Some people might look at targeted Adds a privacy issue only... but when they have your info, already targeted you for that new pair of shoes you performed a generic Internet search for... they sell your info to someone else. And that someone else who bought it may not be as concerned about you as the previous data minning/ marketing firm. Next thing you know... spam, viruses and letters from the Nigerian Prince to help him get his money....then you risk losing money, time and ruined credit out of something that was "just a privacy issue" turn into a security issue.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    You clearly don't understand how google ads work. They don't sell your data to anyone. If I want to have ads, Google doesn't give me any data at all. You give them some keywords for which your ads should appear. Sure, Google has good algorithms to determine which ad to target where, but at no point does your personal data go to advertising companies.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-23-15 05:30 AM
  19. Q90's Avatar
    Some people might look at targeted Adds a privacy issue only... but when they have your info, already targeted you for that new pair of shoes you performed a generic Internet search for... they sell your info to someone else. And that someone else who bought it may not be as concerned about you as the previous data minning/ marketing firm. Next thing you know... spam, viruses and letters from the Nigerian Prince to help him get his money....then you risk losing money, time and ruined credit out of something that was "just a privacy issue" turn into a security issue.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    Having targeted ads doesn't mean you automatically purchase them and amount is credited on your account, genius. It makes things easy for the customer. I doubt you've ever done online shopping.
    Next thing you know... spam, viruses and letters from the Nigerian Prince to help him get his money....then you risk losing money, time and ruined credit out of something that was "just a privacy issue" turn into a security issue.
    You have to be a some next-level-!d!ot to fall for nigerian prince stuff.

    I think you haven't used gmail and android yet, otherwise you'd know that gmail automatically filters spam, and puts your 'promotion/ads related mails'(from amazon, ebay, etc.) into a different section, and never gives you a notification about those. Only important mails are what you get notified about. Unlike that of blackberry's, which used to notify me for every single mail!
    User data collection by Blackberry-gmail_desktopview-660x151.png

    ... before you even get a chance. BBM...naturally scrambled, snap chat like timer built in, nothing special to add or consume resources and again..I didn't have to root it, it just simply works that way. If I got pulled over and for some reason the police wanted into my phone(not that I do anything wrong)...they can't get into my phone, but they can get into yours, just plug into PC and bypass passwords.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    nope.
    Is this what people in here believe?
    03-23-15 08:00 AM
  20. Madhuchandran's Avatar
    Adversity bring BlackBerry acquainted with strange bed fellows!

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-15 08:12 AM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar

    nope.
    Is this what people in here believe?
    Sweet heavens, no.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-23-15 08:20 AM
  22. JeepBB's Avatar
    nope.
    Is this what people in here believe?
    Nope, some of us make sure our tin-foil hats are on tight. It mostly stops the paranoia and allows us to keep a firm hold on reality.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-23-15 08:32 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    1) Most Blackberry users are not running 90% Android apps...LOL.
    2) A lot of BlackBerry user's don't use the Android Apps that are not Cleared through Amazon or require permissions...we are kinda funny that way.
    3) There are no Android apps that are " must haves" for business... world and BES takes care of everything.
    4) The Android Apps that I do use....dont not get installed if they require permissions and not cleared by Amazon.
    So.. no, google doesn't touch my phone and I get everything done I used to when I had droids and Apples.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    1) I wouldn't be sure of that. The most wanted apps are on Amazon and Snap, not on BBW.
    But mostly... HUGE reading comprehension failure on your part. I said that 90% of BlackBerry's ECOSYSTEM is completely reliant on Android. And this is factually pretty accurate (we could probably discuss if its 90 or 95), because all of the connected devices are Apple and Android compliant, but surely not BlackBerry.
    BlackBerry has BES in terms of ecosystem and that's pretty much it.

    2) In how far should your anecdotal knowledge bo considered, when we know that 99/100 of the most popular Android apps need at least one strange permission? There is no difference on BlackBerry.
    And what if Amazon cleared the app? What does it change? (nothing, obviously).

    So you buy apps who do not demand extra permissions?
    Did you know that:

    "It is important to note that all Android apps inherently have internet access and thus no longer ask for that. Some of these flashlight apps use that permission to serve advertising but lack the permissions necessary to track things like your call logs, text messages, or location."

    What about:
    "Earlier this month, a test conducted by the Leviathan Security Group showed that even "no-permissions" Android apps can access potentially sensitive data on your phone -- and transmit that data elsewhere via your phone's Web browser.

    Specifically, Paul Brodeur of Leviathan created a test app that requested no permissions and installed it on some Android devices. He was able to scan the phone's memory card (SD card) and display a list of all non-hidden files on it.

    "While it's possible to fetch the contents of all those files, I'll leave it to someone else to decide what files should be grabbed and which are going to be boring," he wrote."
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/23/tech/m...on-droid-apps/

    No, you probably had no idea, because you don't seem to be informed or to even try to inform yourself.
    Your comments are honestly so clueless....

    3) My company, 3 others I know of personally, and an endless amount of other enterprises internationally disagree with you.
    Mine and the other 3 I mentioned, stopped to support BlackBerry phones in our enterprise, because they did not fulfil our app and ecosystem needs.
    BES is an MDM solution, not an app store. BES doesn't take care of anything, when you need a specified app for that. BES is a security solution, has nothing to do with the needs for specific enterprise apps.
    You think that there are no must have apps for businesses, who have employed Android phones? Are you living under a rock?

    So yeah, I get far more done with my work provided Android phone, than I did with my BB10 device.
    Simply because I can finally use the productivity apps we couldn't access before, because of BB10.
    Ever heard of enterprise app stores?
    What about specific custom coded Android apps for a business? It's not like you'll find those in Google Play.

    I have all the Apps I need or want 95% of my Apps are Blackberry native. The other 5% don't require permissions. Do YOUR research on BBM and support what you say with links...everything I said about BBM is true. No apps are needed to wipe device, it just does it when too many attemps or the wrong info is imputed.
    Attachment 343113



    No...you have to add privacy and security to your phone. It is not built in like above.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    What do I have to prove? That scrambling is far worse than real encryption?
    That the consumer BBM doesn't use encryption?
    That BlackBerry shares consumer BBM conversations with law enforcement?

    Just because what you said is true concerning BBM (scrambling), doesn't mean that it's secure or that other things like "in-build" security are better, when you're not on a BES.

    Try to understand english:
    Androids and iOS devices are now encrypted by default. BlackBerries are not. So, for a consumer not on BES, an iOS and Android is more secure out of the box.

    Your screenshot?
    Apart from the smart card option, I don't see the difference between this and the other platforms.
    So what does it prove?

    BlackBerry doesn't have in-built privacy. Did you receive the memo of their terms of use?
    They share your data just as much.

    Also an Android app who doesn't ask for permissions, still has automatically access to a few other things.

    But overall, I'll just stop here.
    It's clear as day, that you have no idea what you are talking about. It might be lacking knowledge, bad reading comprehension or wilful ignorance.
    Whatever it is, the result is the same:
    Your posts are full of completely misunderstood details, and fanboyism to a degree where I'd wish to be in an iSheep forum, because even they have kept a better sense for reality, than some of our black sheep.
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 03-23-15 at 10:45 AM.
    03-23-15 10:30 AM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    My wife gets it offered almost daily on her Moto G (1st gen), and she refuses to update, because it's probably gonna wreck the phone experience...
    My parents have Moto G (2nd Gen - but they have the same SoC and memory) phones and the only "negative" for them was that the unlock screen changed and it took them a couple of days to get used to it. Lollipop runs quite snappy on their phones.
    03-23-15 11:06 AM
  25. fishlove73's Avatar
    Not me...I don't have anything "google" in any of my systems.

    му ηєω мιηι ℓαρтσρ...αкα ραѕѕρσят!!!
    03-23-15 12:06 PM
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