03-13-14 06:02 PM
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  1. axeman1000's Avatar
    I don't know what the second part has to do particularly with the US.

    However, BlackBerry sales seem to be bad in the US and carriers see that. That's probably why they do not focus on pushing new software releases quickly - they view it as an irrelevant market.

    What I don't understand ist why the don't help BlackBerry to push forward as it would be beneficial for carriers to keep the mobile world diverse.

    BlackBerry seems to be almost frowned upon with some folks.

    Posted via CB10
    Would the US stores like the rest of the world to say that the US economy sucks so bad right now that they shouldn't do free trade anymore? That's a lame excuse.

    Potential customers are all the same, customers and money. They are crazy for taking the time to get it out and **** off their customers!!!!!!

    No more excuses. Release it and stop trying to corrupt blackberry.

    P.S. The economy line was the first thing to pop into my head to use as a analogy, not at shot at Americans lol.

    Hate solves nothing, Respect gains everything!
    02-18-14 07:32 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Great post Troy, I do have one question maybe you can answer, is a carrier in any way obligated to release updates? I know we expect them to, but you should buy a device for what it does now right? Not what you think it may become in the future, as long as the device functions as intended on said network, I really don't think they would be required to do anything. The reason I'm asking is I have seen a couple of post where people are threatening to take legal action, would they have a leg to stand on?
    That's an excellent question, and I admit I don't know the answer. I strongly suspect that OS updates are assumed, because phones have been getting OS updates OTA since at least the early-mid 2000s, long before smartphones were the norm. I remember getting them on a couple of feature phones that I bought just after that particular model was released. It was rare to ever get more than one update, but occasionally there would be a big change at the carrier that would require an OS update to be compatible with new or changed services. I definitely got an update on my Moto E815 and on my RAZR, and I remember my business partner getting one on his Samsung flip phone as well.

    Again, I'm not privy, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the contracts between the carriers and the manufacturers cover all aspects of the update process. Do those contracts require the carriers to send out updates? I suspect that they don't, but given that many updates (and the ones with the highest priority for testing/approval) are to fix problems that directly affect the carriers, the process normally gives the carriers enough motivation to push them out. Thus, I suspect the contracts are mostly about what the manufacturers are required to do in order to qualify an update for admission into the testing process, meaning, they are more to protect the carrier than the manufacturer, since it's the carrier that stands to lose more if an update breaks people's phones - remember, in the US, the CARRIERS are the front-line of support, not the manufacturers.

    Unless there WAS a contract clause that required the carriers to push out updates within a certain period of time, assuming testing didn't uncover serious bugs, then there's really no basis for a lawsuit. There are certainly no laws that I'm aware of that would require the carriers to push updates, so it would be strictly based on what the contracts say, and the carriers have FAR more leverage for those contracts, because they own the networks and they provide the support services, so they take most of the risk.
    JeepBB and rusty502 like this.
    02-18-14 07:59 PM
  3. BBRYed's Avatar
    02-18-14 09:22 PM
  4. BBRYed's Avatar
    Im thinking this is going to stir things up but it has to be said and I hope we can all be constructive about it.

    Why is it that the US carriers still havent pushed 10.2.1.537/1925 when 90 percent of the world already have?

    Why haven't android apps which work perfect with 10.2.1 android runtime been made available on BlackBerry world directly from the developers?

    Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=886525

    Poetry in Motion
    02-18-14 09:22 PM
  5. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Why would it be beneficial for the carriers to have a third or fourth platform? I'd think after you support two and shield yourself from an individual platform getting two much leverage any additional platform you support just wastes resources, unless there's a good public demand for it. How is helping blackberry going to increase their bottom line? I bet Microsoft pays carriers to support WP.
    Carriers do want a 3rd ecosystem. They have always heavily supported BB10 as well as Windows Phone.

    It's simply that fans refuse to appreciate support they were given and would rather scapegoat marketing rather than admit Blackberry produced an uncompelling product sold at an outrageous price.

    Even now, carriers garner no ill will against Blackberry. They are just making the rational business decision and writing off BB10 as a flop that won't likely sell in the foreseeable future.
    bbq10l, JeepBB, cwalt2166 and 2 others like this.
    02-18-14 09:31 PM
  6. bbq10l's Avatar
    CB users are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Didn't Chen assert that BlackBerry is a PROSUMER phone and that they are going back to their roots? All the fans on CB cheered. Now ya'll are complaining that your prosumer phone has no CONSUMER update. Why would it? Consumers don't buy it; stores say they have a high return rate, and there are few popular apps. Those of you pointing out the Fed Gov't use- news flash- the Feds don't care about consumer updates so android apps can "run android better than android." The gov't locks our phones down to the point really only calls and emails are the only usable feature. That is why my recent upgrade was to a Bold. The gov't doesn't appear to care much about BB10 or OS updates. And, they would NEVER allow a leaked OS. I can't even download apps from BlackBerry world on my Fed phone. It comes from IT with the apps I can use. So- why would carriers care about testing updates from BlackBerry and pushing them out? BlackBerry bowed out of the US consumer market, and no one should be surprised that they are not selling to consumers. Who is left to care but the vocal "prosumers" who claimed all along that apps aren't important -"just use the browser"? Bottom line- BlackBerry ditched the US consumers and did it publicly when they said they were going back to their "roots." That is why they don't advertise. Now, no consumers means no apps and maybe no updates. You can blame the carrier all you want, but why should they push a phone when the sales rep complain of high returns and testing new OS takes time for very few users. You wanted your superior "prosumer" phone- well, you got it. But you may not like what that means.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-14 09:34 PM
  7. rusty502's Avatar
    CB users are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Didn't Chen assert that BlackBerry is a PROSUMER phone and that they are going back to their roots? All the fans on CB cheered. Now ya'll are complaining that your prosumer phone has no CONSUMER update. Why would it? Consumers don't buy it; stores say they have a high return rate, and there are few popular apps. Those of you pointing out the Fed Gov't use- news flash- the Feds don't care about consumer updates so android apps can "run android better than android." The gov't locks our phones down to the point really only calls and emails are the only usable feature. That is why my recent upgrade was to a Bold. The gov't doesn't appear to care much about BB10 or OS updates. And, they would NEVER allow a leaked OS. I can't even download apps from BlackBerry world on my Fed phone. It comes from IT with the apps I can use. So- why would carriers care about testing updates from BlackBerry and pushing them out? BlackBerry bowed out of the US consumer market, and no one should be surprised that they are not selling to consumers. Who is left to care but the vocal "prosumers" who claimed all along that apps aren't important -"just use the browser"? Bottom line- BlackBerry ditched the US consumers and did it publicly when they said they were going back to their "roots." That is why they don't advertise. Now, no consumers means no apps and maybe no updates. You can blame the carrier all you want, but why should they push a phone when the sales rep complain of high returns and testing new OS takes time for very few users. You wanted your superior "prosumer" phone- well, you got it. But you may not like what that means.

    Posted via CB10
    As much as I hate it, you may have hit the nail on the head.
    02-18-14 10:31 PM
  8. The Big Picture's Avatar
    Err we're talking about the 10.2.1.537 software release that the rest of the world received and why US carriers havent pushed it yet. What this consumer update talk again?

    Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3
    02-18-14 10:56 PM
  9. collinc93's Avatar
    ah....everyone talking around the topic instead of addressing it....lots of words without meaning
    seascape likes this.
    02-18-14 11:39 PM
  10. p1800nut's Avatar
    I'm not talking about direct updates.

    I'm talking about the fact that BlackBerry knows Tmo US uses wifi calling... yet the OS since 10.2 conflicts with the feature... so they've delivered an unacceptable product to T mobile.

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    Source?
    02-19-14 12:32 AM
  11. Gykesdollars's Avatar
    ah....everyone talking around the topic instead of addressing it....lots of words without meaning
    CHECK MY EARLIER POST..... YOU READ MY MIND ACTUALLY

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.2141 "the iPhone NEMESIS"
    02-19-14 04:43 AM
  12. Gykesdollars's Avatar
    I think you are making a lot of sense here. Let the carriers know how you guys feel. The whole T-Mobile fiasco should teach us something.

    BTW. This T-mobile thing did create quite a ruckus on Social media but has CNN, fox news or ANY members of the media reported it on broadcast TV?

    Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3
    The idea is to get the recipients (blackberry/US carriers) either "working" or at least "talking". CNN broadcast isnt necessary as it won't fetch the desired result for these angry "loyal customers" BUT blackberry/US carriers WILL!!

    IMO, the proper approach is to channel all questions, blames and frustrations to BLACKBERRY! They entered a deal with these carriers not the "loyal consumers!" They -Blackberry should come out and confront these carriers, not keeping mute while "the loyal consumers" fight their battle! I see this as sheer negligence in the part of blackberry!!

    Carriers are entitled to ONLY Push a less problematic OS when they deem it right. Besides, why go through the stress of testing and pushing an OS update when the target user base is few and stand the risk of being questioned should something go wrong afterwards? Think about it and see reasons with them.
    Last edited by Gykesdollars; 02-19-14 at 01:50 PM.
    lnichols likes this.
    02-19-14 04:48 AM
  13. bakron1's Avatar
    Finally!!! I hear someone at BlackBerry corporate speak up!!! Where have they been up to now????

    It took this issue of trying to steer customers to another brand to finally wake someone in waterloo up???? It shouldn't be the customer telling T Mobile about this, it should have been BlackBerry all along.

    Don't blame T Mobile for all of this folks, BlackBerry's advertising and promotion has been nonexistent here in the USA for a while now. Most folks I know, think BlackBerry is out of business.

    The damage has already been done here, T Mobile doesn't even carry the BlackBerry products in their stores anymore and try to find them on the T Mobile website?

    It's going to take some serious damage control and marketing to rebuild the brand here. So far based on what I have seen here in the USA the last six months, I an not impressed.

    Sent from my BlackBerry z10 on 10.2.1.537
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    02-19-14 05:30 AM
  14. jaydee5799's Avatar
    When will BlackBerry come to their senses and avoid the US carriers. It is not our fault that the carriers could care less about BlackBerry, BlackBerry send us updates directly.

    Posted via CB10
    THIS ^^^^^^^^^
    VZW refuses to support us BlackBerry users and treat us like smartphone users! They cater to iphone and Android. I can't call in for a question about my bill without having someone say oh i see you have an upgrade....how about a brand new iphone? If I could get updates from BB I would use official OSes. Until then...leaks for me only!
    02-19-14 06:41 AM
  15. sixpacker's Avatar
    Carriers are handling it in the worst possible way. First, by their actions it seems clear US carriers would be fine if their customer base completely dropped all BlackBerry devices. If we assume that is true, all the carriers need to do with an update is install it on each model they sell, make sure data, voice and SMS work and release it. If it goes well, they didn't spend more then 30 minutes on it. If it goes bad, they strongly encourage the customer with a problem get some other phone. If the customer insists, turn it over to BlackBerry and wash their hands of it.

    Given the very few BB10 customers US carriers have, even if such a tactic caused them to lose some small percentage of them, they would likely be happy to be rid of a few more BBs.
    You really have zero clue about carrier testing.
    They supply contract phones that run on their network.
    If an update screws the network or all BBRY's on the network the carrier will be held to account.
    They have to test many operating scenarios, including traffic handling, mobility, security etc.
    It's not trivial and frequently finds bugs that need fixing.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    JeepBB and kbz1960 like this.
    02-19-14 09:35 AM
  16. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Source?
    Source = BlackBerry support at T mobile.

    Further, it just makes sense. Why do you think NONE of the leaks have been able to get wifi calling to work.

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-19-14 09:44 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Carriers are handling it in the worst possible way. First, by their actions it seems clear US carriers would be fine if their customer base completely dropped all BlackBerry devices. If we assume that is true, all the carriers need to do with an update is install it on each model they sell, make sure data, voice and SMS work and release it. If it goes well, they didn't spend more then 30 minutes on it. If it goes bad, they strongly encourage the customer with a problem get some other phone. If the customer insists, turn it over to BlackBerry and wash their hands of it.
    What you don't seem to be getting is that if the carriers do this (throw an update out there that breaks people's phones), then the CARRIERS have to pay to give the customer a replacement phone when the customer angrily storms into a carrier store. When the Z10 first shipped and had the reboot bug, it cost the carriers a ton of money to replace all of the phones that got returned, which was the beginning of the end of carrier support for BB. As a retailer, the LAST thing you ever want is a returned device, but BB generated a ton of them, and the carriers had to eat the cost. They aren't going to keep doing that and keep losing money - it's easier to just drop BB support altogether, because they get few returns of iOS and Android phones.

    Once again, this goes back to BB failing to EXECUTE properly, something BB has always had a problem doing. You can make all the excuses for them that you want, but it is BB who have put themselves in this position, not the carriers. If BB was making the carriers money, the carriers would be giving BB plenty of love, just like they used to back in the day.
    bbq10l, kbz1960, JeepBB and 2 others like this.
    02-19-14 11:45 AM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    THIS ^^^^^^^^^
    VZW refuses to support us BlackBerry users and treat us like smartphone users!
    If BB "avoids" the carriers and doesn't follow their rules, the carriers can choose to drop BB support entirely. And guess what? Verizon and Sprint, the CDMA carriers, by policy, do not provision phones that they don't sell, so if they decided not to sell current or future BB phones, then you can forget using a BB on those networks, EVER.

    BB needs the carriers FAR more than the carriers need BB, and if the carriers DO fully drop BB support, BB's hardware business will be DONE.
    JeepBB, rusty502 and ljfong like this.
    02-19-14 11:49 AM
  19. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    What you don't seem to be getting is that if the carriers do this (throw an update out there that breaks people's phones), then the CARRIERS have to pay to give the customer a replacement phone when the customer angrily storms into a carrier store. When the Z10 first shipped and had the reboot bug, it cost the carriers a ton of money to replace all of the phones that got returned, which was the beginning of the end of carrier support for BB. As a retailer, the LAST thing you ever want is a returned device, but BB generated a ton of them, and the carriers had to eat the cost. They aren't going to keep doing that and keep losing money - it's easier to just drop BB support altogether, because they get few returns of iOS and Android phones.

    Once again, this goes back to BB failing to EXECUTE properly, something BB has always had a problem doing. You can make all the excuses for them that you want, but it is BB who have put themselves in this position, not the carriers. If BB was making the carriers money, the carriers would be giving BB plenty of love, just like they used to back in the day.
    You are absolutely correct!!

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-19-14 11:51 AM
  20. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Finally!!! I hear someone at BlackBerry corporate speak up!!! Where have they been up to now????

    It took this issue of trying to steer customers to another brand to finally wake someone in waterloo up???? It shouldn't be the customer telling T Mobile about this, it should have been BlackBerry all along.

    Don't blame T Mobile for all of this folks, BlackBerry's advertising and promotion has been nonexistent here in the USA for a while now. Most folks I know, think BlackBerry is out of business.

    The damage has already been done here, T Mobile doesn't even carry the BlackBerry products in their stores anymore and try to find them on the T Mobile website?

    It's going to take some serious damage control and marketing to rebuild the brand here. So far based on what I have seen here in the USA the last six months, I an not impressed.

    Sent from my BlackBerry z10 on 10.2.1.537
    Ditto... so true... and sad...

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-19-14 11:52 AM
  21. Gykesdollars's Avatar
    What you don't seem to be getting is that if the carriers do this (throw an update out there that breaks people's phones), then the CARRIERS have to pay to give the customer a replacement phone when the customer angrily storms into a carrier store. When the Z10 first shipped and had the reboot bug, it cost the carriers a ton of money to replace all of the phones that got returned, which was the beginning of the end of carrier support for BB. As a retailer, the LAST thing you ever want is a returned device, but BB generated a ton of them, and the carriers had to eat the cost.

    Finally, someone understands me!

    QUESTION IS: why should carriers pay for BB's shortcomings???
    In the event of a bricked phone as a result of OS upgrade pushed by carriers, these carrier stores will be stormed by the same "loyal customers" as though they were Blackberry Customer Care Centers.

    Permit me ask, are there BB customer care centers in the US, any??? What measures has BB as a company, put in place to address hardware/software issues of their devices??


    I REPEAT, THE PROBLEM IS WITH EVERY CRACKBERRIAN IN THE US! DIRECT YOUR CONCERNS TO BLACKBERRY NOT YOUR CARRIER... CARRIERS ARE RUNNING THEIR OWN BUSINESSES NOT BLACKBERRY'S AND AS SUCH ARE ENTITLED TO PROMOTE ANY DEVICE/PLATFORM THAT BRINGS IN MORE PROFIT!

    Posted via Tecno_n9 Pad using the Android CrackBerry App!
    Last edited by Gykesdollars; 02-19-14 at 04:40 PM.
    bbq10l likes this.
    02-19-14 01:48 PM
  22. Mo Cat's Avatar
    My guess why the US carriers haven't pushed it yet, is two-fold. 1) NSA is still working on your update 1st
    2) A lot of US consumers turned their back on BB, now they get punished in return. Now seriously, think you will get it before the end of February or I do hope so. Update began around the 28th January, I believe and I got the update on Valentine's day, the 14th, so 5 days ago. I was getting impatient so I fully understand yours. Hope it will arrive soon.
    02-19-14 03:29 PM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Carrier testing in the US normally takes about 5-6 weeks, regardless of platform, IF they start testing a release as soon as it was released to the carriers (not always the case, and probably not the case with BB), and IF no serious bugs are found. If you remember, there was a bug found in 10.1, and so 10.1 wasn't released by some carriers until that bug was fixed with the 10.1 MR (maintenance release) and THAT version past testing.

    I wouldn't even be looking for the 10.2.1 rollout until at least 8 weeks after the release-to-carrier date, and if bugs are found, it could be quite a bit longer than that.
    02-19-14 06:59 PM
  24. ljfong's Avatar
    What you don't seem to be getting is that if the carriers do this (throw an update out there that breaks people's phones), then the CARRIERS have to pay to give the customer a replacement phone when the customer angrily storms into a carrier store. When the Z10 first shipped and had the reboot bug, it cost the carriers a ton of money to replace all of the phones that got returned, which was the beginning of the end of carrier support for BB. As a retailer, the LAST thing you ever want is a returned device, but BB generated a ton of them, and the carriers had to eat the cost. They aren't going to keep doing that and keep losing money - it's easier to just drop BB support altogether, because they get few returns of iOS and Android phones.

    Once again, this goes back to BB failing to EXECUTE properly, something BB has always had a problem doing. You can make all the excuses for them that you want, but it is BB who have put themselves in this position, not the carriers. If BB was making the carriers money, the carriers would be giving BB plenty of love, just like they used to back in the day.
    An insightful post as usual that nails the issue. For all we know, AT&T could be testing 10.2.1 and found significant problems with certain configurations of their network and BlackBerry as usual is being slow. Any information from AT&T be that on online chat or twitter is pretty much unreliable, as you only get to talk to peons, not the people who really matter and make decision.
    02-19-14 07:42 PM
  25. Chris Muriel's Avatar
    I already run the excellent Tunepal app mentioned on page 1 of this thread - on an Android flashed HP Touchpad tablet.
    My Blackberry Q10 with the new "Android friendly" 10.2.1 OS and Snap installed finds Tunepal in Google Playstore , attempts to download it but then comes up with an install fail message :-(
    I installed a separate Android (free) app via Google Playustore to check functionality and that runs fine.

    Chris Muriel, Manchester UK
    02-23-14 10:22 AM
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