[The Big Picture]

Im thinking this is going to stir things up but it has to be said and I hope we can all be constructive about it.

Why is it that the US carriers still havent pushed 10.2.1.537/1925 when 90 percent of the world already have?

Why haven't android apps which work perfect with 10.2.1 android runtime been made available on BlackBerry world directly from the developers?

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[TheQuietRioter]

I wish I had an answer for you....the 10.2 update is a friggin' unicorn in the USA.

Posted via CB10

[SunshineStateFlyer]

I don't know what the second part has to do particularly with the US.

However, BlackBerry sales seem to be bad in the US and carriers see that. That's probably why they do not focus on pushing new software releases quickly - they view it as an irrelevant market.

What I don't understand ist why the don't help BlackBerry to push forward as it would be beneficial for carriers to keep the mobile world diverse.

BlackBerry seems to be almost frowned upon with some folks.

Posted via CB10

[SK122387]

BlackBerry has done all they can to entice developers of all kind to the platform. They've laid it all out for Android developers, making it as easy as possible.

While I'd think these developers would want to broaden their apps' user base, it seems like many just don't care, and have pretty much written BlackBerry off. What else do you want BlackBerry to do? There's nothing they haven't done. And now that BlackBerry is focusing mainly on enterprise, I definitely wouldn't hold my breath for some major push by BlackBerry to get major consumer oriented apps on the platform anymore.


Posted via CB10

[The Big Picture]

I don't know what the second part has to do particularly with the US.

However, BlackBerry sales seem to be bad in the US and carriers see that. That's probably why they do not focus on pushing new software releases quickly - they view it as an irrelevant market.

What I don't understand ist why the don't help BlackBerry to push forward as it would be beneficial for carriers to keep the mobile world diverse.

BlackBerry seems to be almost frowned upon with some folks.

Posted via CB10

Arent most developers based in america?

Do you know that facebook and twitter for BlackBerry 10 is developed by BlackBerry themselves in house with permission from those companies?

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[Jrox74]

I think you will see an change in the perception of Blackberry in the US in the near future. With all of the changes being made and the updated OS and the Z30 is getting noticed BlackBerry will once again get the respect it deserves. I'm an American working in HK & rocking 24-7 with my Z10 & 64GB Playbook.

[chopachain]

BB has dropped the ball again. They know the dire situation they are in America and with apps. But they fail to correct the situation. BB should give the carriers a ultimatum. If the update is not released by a certain date then BB should go over their heads. To me it seems as if the carriers are deliberately stalling.

If the developers are not complaining about Snap or Mobile1 then it makes no sense. I wonder if developer's know that BB10 devices can use android apps. Has BB emailed them? At least you would know when they are available in BBW they have been tested and work on all the devices. The android apps work fine on my Q and Z10 but cannot get one of them to work on my Z30.

[bakron1]

First of all, this is BOTH the carriers and BlackBerry's fault. Why we do not have the official 10.2.1.537 update here in the USA is beyond me.

The carriers here have all but given up on the BlackBerry brand here. Us dedicated users here feel like we have been isolated and are very concerned about future support?

I haven't heard one word from anyone up there in waterloo, telling us dedicated users here they are going to support us for the long haul.?????

I have installed the leak on my z10, but I know allot of folks here who are pissed off and are tired of getting a run around from both the carriers and BlackBerry when it comes to product support.

Sent from my BlackBerry z10 on 10.2.1.537

[BoldWorld]

When will BlackBerry come to their senses and avoid the US carriers. It is not our fault that the carriers could care less about BlackBerry, BlackBerry send us updates directly.

Posted via CB10

[The Big Picture]

When will BlackBerry come to their senses and avoid the US carriers. It is not our fault that the carriers could care less about BlackBerry, BlackBerry send us updates directly.

Posted via CB10

I feel the same way but it not smart to **** off the carriers especially the larger ones.

But they should find someway to by pass carriers for OS updates.

How does apple do it? Sure carriers have to test on their network but the actual pushing can be done by BlackBerry themselves.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[app_Developer]

How does apple do it?

Apple insists on this when they sign agreements with carriers. BlackBerry didn't think to do this back when they had the leverage.

Carrier updates are definitely frustrating. To be fair though, US carriers have very few customers on BB10. Right now they have iOS7.1 and probably a few different variants of KitKat to test. Those are obviously going to take priority since those affect so many more users.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Skyforever]

BB has dropped the ball again. They know the dire situation they are in America and with apps. But they fail to correct the situation. BB should give the carriers a ultimatum. If the update is not released by a certain date then BB should go over their heads. To me it seems as if the carriers are deliberately stalling.

If the developers are not complaining about Snap or Mobile1 then it makes no sense. I wonder if developer's know that BB10 devices can use android apps. Has BB emailed them? At least you would know when they are available in BBW they have been tested and work on all the devices. The android apps work fine on my Q and Z10 but cannot get one of them to work on my Z30.

Sorry to hear about your experience. Have installed a couple of ASL apps using Snap on my Z30 (which I had purchased before), and I've had no problems whatsoever using these apps on my Z30.

[silvanus55]

US Carriers need to stop marketing BB as Buisness Phone only. What ever BB need to do to prevent that prevent that, then do it.

[BBUniq01]

The silence from BlackBerry is deafening.

Zed 10 with 1925 leak

[flacrack]

It costs money to support a new OS. If the subscriber base is not there, you really can't fault a carrier for not upgrading. Not that I wouldn't want to see an ATT upgrade, but can you imagine all these Z10 battery issues being directed at ATT customer service, rather than Crackberry? Here, most people take an initiative to fix issues or at least find out about them. When the masses have an issue, they hand it to customer service and say fix it! If there is no fix, there is major unhappiness for a consumer, which a carrier is loathe to encourage, even if this means no updated OS's.

[ubizmo]

Why is it that the US carriers still havent pushed 10.2.1.537/1925 when 90 percent of the world already have?

That one's easy. They don't care. BlackBerry represents such a small number of their users that they assign a low priority to BB10 update testing. It's just not worth it. And you have one carrier, T-Mobile, offering incentives to their subscribers to switch from BlackBerry devices to iPhones. At this point, US carriers would prefer for BlackBerry just to go away, and they're doing what they can to make that happen--with the possible exception of Verizon, and I'm not all that sure about them either.

Why haven't android apps which work perfect with 10.2.1 android runtime been made available on BlackBerry world directly from the developers?

Some apps worked perfectly on 10.0 but still weren't in BB World, so it's not a new question. The classic case is Audible, which worked flawlessly on 10.0. When you consider that the Audible apps on any platform are essentially just ways to get people to pay for Audible content, you'd think they'd have every reason to get the app onto as many devices as possible. This is their business model, after all. But the app still isn't in BB World, even though Kindle, the "sister" app from Amazon, is.

I can only conjecture that they don't want to incur the costs of having to support the app. I know they have no objection to people using it sideloaded, since I wrote and asked them about it directly.

Here's another case, at the other end of the spectrum. There's a wonderful Android/iOS app called "TunePal." It's very much a niche app, but for those of us who have a use for it, it's terrific. This app is for musicians who play Irish/Scottish/Breton/etc. traditional music. Like SoundHound, you can use it to record a sample and it'll identify the tune and show you the sheet music. This is great because Irish trad musicians can never remember the names of tunes, especially after the second pint. So you always have these conversations, "What was that tune you just played?" "Oh that was...hmm...dunno. Something about a condom." "What?" Then, TunePal to the rescue: It was "Condon's Frolics."

So I wrote to the developer to ask him about porting it to BB World, even though I don't currently own a BlackBerry. But I'd like to return, and this app is one I'd hate to give up. His answer was: I don't have a BlackBerry to test it on. I showed him where the BB10 simulator could be found, but he added that he's a college student, and busy, and it's a low volume app anyway, and he just didn't have time. It's a paid app, by the way, not adware.

I don't know if BlackBerry would give this guy a Z10. Maybe that would change his mind. But it may not be worth their while to pursue such a niche app anyway. I'd bet this app would work fine as is, but the developer clearly doesn't want to take on the potential support burden.

[co4nd]

I don't know what the second part has to do particularly with the US.

...

What I don't understand ist why the don't help BlackBerry to push forward as it would be beneficial for carriers to keep the mobile world diverse.

...

Posted via CB10

Why would it be beneficial for the carriers to have a third or fourth platform? I'd think after you support two and shield yourself from an individual platform getting two much leverage any additional platform you support just wastes resources, unless there's a good public demand for it. How is helping blackberry going to increase their bottom line? I bet Microsoft pays carriers to support WP.

[kbz1960]

US Carriers need to stop marketing BB as Buisness Phone only. What ever BB need to do to prevent that prevent that, then do it.

Isn't BBRY stating they are back to their roots which is business? So why would the carriers push or not push it as anything else?

It's all numbers. Do you test etc. for products that sell in the millions or concentrate on a product that sold hundreds? Not too difficult to figure out.

[jojo beaconsfield]

Market share isn't there,that's well know and discouraging.Wasn't the US last to get the new phones? So I guess you will be the last to get the updates.Sucks I know,having to wait so long ,but you have been there before ,right? Hang in there and be strong.

[Troy Tiscareno]

American carriers have ALWAYS, with EVERY platform, done carrier testing before releasing new firmware/OSs for their phones.

When Apple was about to launch the iPhone, they went to Verizon first, because they were the biggest carrier in the US. They nearly had a deal, but Apple was insisting on Apple-controlled OS updates, and Verizon didn't want to agree to that, so the deal fell apart. Thus, Apple went to their second choice: AT&T. At the time, even though they were the second-biggest carrier, AT&T was losing ground quickly, so they agreed to let Apple do direct OS updates. Once Apple had that agreement with AT&T and set that precedent, and then proved that the iPhone, even at the crazy-high price that it was initially offered at ($600 up-front ON CONTRACT, which is roughly equal to $1050 off-contract), would sell, Apple was able to secure the same right with other carriers. Even then, with AT&T growing at a huge pace with the iPhone after two years of sales, it took Verizon a long time to agree to Apple's demand for direct control of updates, but finally the pressure was too much and they gave in.

No other smartphone company has ever had that kind of leverage with the carriers, and hence no other smartphone company has the contractual ability do to direct updates to phones purchased through the carriers. Yes, Google Nexus phones purchased directly from Google (i.e., unlocked GSM phones) can be updated directly, but they are an obvious exception - the vast majority of people in the US buy their phones locked, on-contract, from their carrier. Another issue is that the US has 2 CDMA carriers, and unlike GSM phones available in most of the world, CDMA phones can't be provisioned on the network by simply inserting an active SIM. Until LTE phones were released, they didn't even HAVE a removable SIM, and so CDMA phones are locked to the carrier and the carrier, because they can, will only activate phones originally sold by that carrier. You can't just go buy some random phone and use it on Verizon or Sprint - they won't let you, even if that phone is technically compatible.

So, BB is no different from Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, Lenovo, Nokia, or any other Android or Windows Phone maker: they have to wait for the carrier to test and approve their updates before those updated will be released. WHY is this? Because, in the US, the primary support mechanism for smartphones is the CARRIER, not the smartphone company (with the exception of Apple, who has Apple Stores, one of the reasons AT&T agreed to let Apple have update control in the first place). A bad OS/firmware update can wreak havoc on potentially millions of phones all at once, inundating the carrier with support requests, and often forcing the carriers to exchange phones for customers, at a big financial loss to the carrier. In most of the world, the manufacturer is the primary support source, and phones are often purchased independently of carrier service (with GSM in most places, this is easy to do). That makes the US somewhat unique, with it's mix of GSM and CDMA carriers.

So, waiting for updates to be tested and approved is normal, and Apple shouldn't be compared to any other vendor because Apple was granted a contractual exception to the rule that no one else was in a position to demand and has support infrastructure that no other vendor has.

The other part, as several people have pointed out, is that testing updates takes time, money, and resources for the carriers, and so that testing is prioritized. It doesn't take a genius to look at BB's marketshare percentage to know that testing BB updates is a lower priority than testing updates for Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, or Nokia devices. Will BB eventually get their turn on the testing schedule? Most likely, yes, but they are a lower priority because the installed base is so small relative to other phones.

For the people who have said that BB should "issue an ultimatum" or "stop dealing with the carriers", you are clueless to how the cell phone business works, at least in the US. BB needs the carriers FAR, FAR more than the carriers need BB. The carriers could EASILY choose not to activate BB phones on their networks AT ALL, and while GSM customers could find ways around that, CDMA customers (Verizon and Sprint) would have no way to use a BB if they wanted to stay with their carrier. Plus, something like 97% of all smartphone sales in the US are made by carriers, so without the carriers, BB is all the way dead in the US. BB is in absolutely no position to be issuing ultimatums, and the very idea is ludicrous and laughable.

Those people who bought and own their own BB phone have alternatives to update their phone's OS, so there's no real reason to complain. Yes, it's true that those who were issued their phones by their employers, locked down with BES, can't do anything but wait for the carriers, but that's exactly what you have to do. Yes, it sucks, but that's the unfortunate reality, and nothing is really going to change that. BB isn't the only company whose phones are waiting for carriers to release phone updates - everyone but Apple is in the same boat, even if some are closer to the front of the line.

[The Big Picture]

American carriers have ALWAYS, with EVERY platform, done carrier testing before releasing new firmware/OSs for their phones.

When Apple was about to launch the iPhone, they went to Verizon first, because they were the biggest carrier in the US. They nearly had a deal, but Apple was insisting on Apple-controlled OS updates, and Verizon didn't want to agree to that, so the deal fell apart. Thus, Apple went to their second choice: AT&T. At the time, even though they were the second-biggest carrier, AT&T was losing ground quickly, so they agreed to let Apple do direct OS updates. Once Apple had that agreement with AT&T and set that precedent, and then proved that the iPhone, even at the crazy-high price that it was initially offered at ($600 up-front ON CONTRACT, which is roughly equal to $1050 off-contract), would sell, Apple was able to secure the same right with other carriers. Even then, with AT&T growing at a huge pace with the iPhone after two years of sales, it took Verizon a long time to agree to Apple's demand for direct control of updates, but finally the pressure was too much and they gave in.

No other smartphone company has ever had that kind of leverage with the carriers, and hence no other smartphone company has the contractual ability do to direct updates to phones purchased through the carriers. Yes, Google Nexus phones purchased directly from Google (i.e., unlocked GSM phones) can be updated directly, but they are an obvious exception - the vast majority of people in the US buy their phones locked, on-contract, from their carrier. Another issue is that the US has 2 CDMA carriers, and unlike GSM phones available in most of the world, CDMA phones can't be provisioned on the network by simply inserting an active SIM. Until LTE phones were released, they didn't even HAVE a removable SIM, and so CDMA phones are locked to the carrier and the carrier, because they can, will only activate phones originally sold by that carrier. You can't just go buy some random phone and use it on Verizon or Sprint - they won't let you, even if that phone is technically compatible.

So, BB is no different from Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, Lenovo, Nokia, or any other Android or Windows Phone maker: they have to wait for the carrier to test and approve their updates before those updated will be released. WHY is this? Because, in the US, the primary support mechanism for smartphones is the CARRIER, not the smartphone company (with the exception of Apple, who has Apple Stores, one of the reasons AT&T agreed to let Apple have update control in the first place). A bad OS/firmware update can wreak havoc on potentially millions of phones all at once, inundating the carrier with support requests, and often forcing the carriers to exchange phones for customers, at a big financial loss to the carrier. In most of the world, the manufacturer is the primary support source, and phones are often purchased independently of carrier service (with GSM in most places, this is easy to do). That makes the US somewhat unique, with it's mix of GSM and CDMA carriers.

So, waiting for updates to be tested and approved is normal, and Apple shouldn't be compared to any other vendor because Apple was granted a contractual exception to the rule that no one else was in a position to demand and has support infrastructure that no other vendor has.

The other part, as several people have pointed out, is that testing updates takes time, money, and resources for the carriers, and so that testing is prioritized. It doesn't take a genius to look at BB's marketshare percentage to know that testing BB updates is a lower priority than testing updates for Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, or Nokia devices. Will BB eventually get their turn on the testing schedule? Most likely, yes, but they are a lower priority because the installed base is so small relative to other phones.

For the people who have said that BB should "issue an ultimatum" or "stop dealing with the carriers", you are clueless to how the cell phone business works, at least in the US. BB needs the carriers FAR, FAR more than the carriers need BB. The carriers could EASILY choose not to activate BB phones on their networks AT ALL, and while GSM customers could find ways around that, CDMA customers (Verizon and Sprint) would have no way to use a BB if they wanted to stay with their carrier. Plus, something like 97% of all smartphone sales in the US are made by carriers, so without the carriers, BB is all the way dead in the US. BB is in absolutely no position to be issuing ultimatums, and the very idea is ludicrous and laughable.

Those people who bought and own their own BB phone have alternatives to update their phone's OS, so there's no real reason to complain. Yes, it's true that those who were issued their phones by their employers, locked down with BES, can't do anything but wait for the carriers, but that's exactly what you have to do. Yes, it sucks, but that's the unfortunate reality, and nothing is really going to change that. BB isn't the only company whose phones are waiting for carriers to release phone updates - everyone but Apple is in the same boat, even if some are closer to the front of the line.

Good point about google nexus's being able to update directly.

Its a good seller but nothing compared to samsung shipments. But yet they can update directly? I think its because its google and google has leverage.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2141, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[Troy Tiscareno]

Good point about google nexus's being able to update directly.

Its a good seller but nothing compared to samsung shipments. But yet they can update directly? I think its because its google and google has leverage.

And, yet, even Google didn't have the leverage to sell CDMA versions of the Galaxy Nexus directly from their store, nor to update the OS on those phones directly, even though they did so on the GSM versions that they sold directly. Verizon and Spring GNex owners had all the same complaints that BB owners have made in this thread, and many made the same out-of-touch suggestions of "Google bypassing the carriers" or "issuing an ultimatum".

So, again, the Nexus shouldn't be the standard used for comparison. It is an exception, and a very specific one.

[crackberry_geek]

It is BlackBerry that clearly gave up on the US market... not the other way around.

In the US:
Zero marketing!
Almost zero product availability!
Launching in Jakarta? Come on...really?

Most people in the US don't even know about the Z10 and Z30. Even if they did, they wouldn't know where to buy one.

BlackBerry has no one to blame but themselves.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

[geraldryan]

I am not surprised anything the yanks do to protect their markets, Concorde was prevented from flying into the USA for ages thanks to the whinging of protective groups within their society so there is nothing new with their behaviour with the Blackberry company.!!

[newcollector]

There really is nothing to test. I am on AT&T and BlackBerry knows how to build software for the carrier. I am now running the newest 10.2.1. Prior to this I have been running the 1925, and before that the 1055 leaks. They all work fine. Testing is just company speak for "control". Going forward BlackBerry needs to get a contract for direct updates.

Posted via CB10 via my Z10