02-17-13 08:35 PM
38 12
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  1. G-bone's Avatar
    This is positive news...and I am waiting for the 700 mhz bandwidth auction so that we can get good reception EVERYWHERE (or so the theory goes ).


    #BB10Believe
    02-16-13 02:27 PM
  2. joe.miller's Avatar
    Only iphones have a special tax (don't know why, but not surprising).
    Because Apple.
    02-16-13 03:00 PM
  3. bhrgvr's Avatar
    The CRTC has had proceedings all week long on the new Mobile Wireless Code they will be making law after Feb 22nd 2013 that will force all Canadian cell carriers to sell their devices unlocked, along with providing 1 and 2 year contracts, possibly making the 3 year contract illegal. Along with forcing the cell carriers to show all their hidden fees and change their wording so that people know exactly what they are getting into when signing up with them.

    They have had all the cell companies, one a time, in their sights this week while the CRTC looked at their products and services under a electron microscope asking them questions. They didn't leave any stone un-turned. I listened to it the proceedings from Wednesday on wards, and it was funny to say the least at hearing the BS answers the cell companies were giving the CRTC who acknowledge more than ones their answers were BS.

    So what do the device get locked? Well the cell companies believe that locking the devices cuts down on fraud. Yet someone from one of the consumer based agencies who spoke to the CRTC last week said that if someone stole your device they could take anywhere and have it unlocked so he didn't believe locking the device really cut down fraud. When Bell was asked about why the have their devices locked they said the same, to cut down on fraud, and he believe (this a BS answer) that if they didn't require their devices to be locked that they would be last on the list to receive the new hottest devices from the manufacture. When asked if they request the device to be locked or does the manufacture sell them to Bell locked, Bell said they request the device being locked.

    The CRTC, and I am not for this because the logistics involved, may separate the sale of the device from the contract, there have been many consumer groups and people who had asked the CRTC to look into this. I am not for it at as I work for an MSP and side the cell companies who say "what stops someone from switching to another carrier with their unlocked device which they are still paying us for and call us saying there is a problem with the device when there is actually a problem with their carriers network?", it would be too much hassle to manage this.

    I am looking forward to the unlocking, as paying $30+ to have my new device unlocked is steep.
    We always had our devices unlocked. Apart from that, the Indian carrier cannot charge any hidden fee... So for us the bill is fairly transparent... we can ask for a refund in the bill if we feel fleeced.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9860 using Tapatalk
    02-16-13 03:12 PM
  4. North-Face's Avatar

    I am looking forward to the unlocking, as paying $30+ to have my new device unlocked is steep.
    Wow..that is steep. When I unlocked mine for US travel I had freemyblackberry .com offer me a code for $3 in 10 minutes or free in 24 hrs. if willing to wait.
    02-16-13 03:16 PM
  5. Masahiro's Avatar
    The only way to truly have the Big Three come around and start treating their customers better is to open up our market to some true competition where they have to fight for consumer dollars. As a patriotic Canadian it pains me to say this but we need to open the door to U.S. and International Carriers to operate here in Canada. If AT & T, T-Mobile, Orange, O2, Vodafone et al were to come to our markets it would give the Big Three a wake up call they would have to listen to.
    The problem is, Canada is such a huge country, but with low population density. We can open up our market to American competitors, but would they even bother after considering the cost of setting up a huge network of towers, only to be able to serve a market that has only 10% of the population of the US? Instead, what you'll end up with is more carriers like Wind and Mobilicity that would rather set up smaller, more focused networks and charge a lot less. Of course we all know how much of an effect those smaller carriers have had on the Big Three thus far, although there are factors other than reception and cost.
    02-16-13 03:32 PM
  6. Xuan Calderon's Avatar
    Locked phones are just way of making sure you dont easily use another network, its nasty, obviously keeping you with them longer as some people dont even know about unlocking and dont ever think they can do it themselves. However unlocking was also originally it was designed only to be done by the network operators as they are the only ones that know the secret formulas that make the unique unlock codes.

    The evil plan being that once your contract was over you then realise that youre phone wouldn't work with another network and you would have to call and buy a code from them.

    So like anything on the planet, decades ago, clever people started and managed to crack these formulas and spend now spend their time cracking new models and they made these boxes and software that you connect the phone and works out the code you should use.

    So the networks lost a massive chunk of what they thought was going to be extra business for them at the end of your contract (good) and not only that they were ready to rip you off, charging easily $50/$100 to unlock. But all of this has changed as since the day you could walk into a independent store and get your phone unlocked which was decades ago.

    The tools are now easily available to buy by anyone who thinks they can make a quick buck offering unlocking online, and the truth is if you saw $30 for a code, your honestly looking in the wrong place, the unlocking market is strong but the prices have crashed with a decade of constant undercutting by knoobs , you can buy unlock code for $1 on ebay, I sell unlock codes for all blackberry models for only $4, I programmed the automated system myself that sends you a code in two minutes by email and if you want it cheaper than that I even do free codes if you promote us by uploading one of our videos to your youtube but the truth is setup a free version as sometimes I get kids who want to unlock there phones and dont have a way of paying, so why not I help out... yes the sad stories I got thru the chat system.

    It's only because its half automated I can do that price, if i get an error with some bad info I still send out a manual message of whats gone wrong and what to do next.

    Actually i tried to sell it for more but then visitors hesitated, so I had to change the price to something you would take a gamble on even if it didn't work out.

    So soon Canada will no longer need unlock codes another blow to independent service providers in todays economy doesnt help...
    Last edited by Xuan Calderon; 02-16-13 at 08:07 PM.
    02-16-13 07:40 PM
  7. Xuan Calderon's Avatar
    The problem is, Canada is such a huge country, but with low population density. We can open up our market to American competitors, but would they even bother after considering the cost of setting up a huge network of towers, only to be able to serve a market that has only 10% of the population of the US? Instead, what you'll end up with is more carriers like Wind and Mobilicity that would rather set up smaller, more focused networks and charge a lot less. Of course we all know how much of an effect those smaller carriers have had on the Big Three thus far, although there are factors other than reception and cost.
    The Wireless network industry needs a new model,

    a) every network hands over their airiels to one new neutral operator and take everyone's antennas and make them one connection point global network
    b) behind the scenes the networks make joint investments to build the network using the neutral operator that now runs for them and jointly puts funds from multiple networks into setting up access in new areas, its so logical, each network will pay a fraction to setup access to new zones and it will be more eco as individual wireless networks will not be required for each network.
    c) the future will be just about buying the tariff you want and everyone is connected to one "default" wireless connection.

    Already this is happening with networks merging access to their connections, in the UK T-mobile/Orange share their signals and the new EE joint 4G rollout.
    02-16-13 08:21 PM
  8. Andrew4life's Avatar
    The US takes a step backwards and makes unlocking phones illegal.
    Canada takes a step forward and makes unlocking phones madatory.

    Gotta love living in the greatest country in the world. Canada!
    rexxenex and CairnsRock like this.
    02-16-13 08:36 PM
  9. lorax1284's Avatar
    This sounds like pretty good news to me, but I highly doubt it will be in place by Feb 22 2013. If you check out the draft code available on CRTC's website (Read the Draft Code | Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission), it says the code would come in to force 6 months after publishing.
    My contract expires in September 2013, so this would be perfect timing.

    ...and don't believe for a second that the companies will jack the subsidized phone costs up to what they currently charge for 2 year contracts now: the 2 year price is like the price difference between the small popcorn at a movie theatre being 25 less than the one that's three times the size.... $5 for a bushel of popcorn is still a rip off, just less so than the small popcorn at $4.75.
    02-16-13 08:37 PM
  10. bk1022's Avatar
    I have been a customer of Telus for years. I have to say that although they still remind me of a big Canadian oligopoly, they are by far the best of the big three carriers bar none. I've been with them for 10 years and they actually make an effort when I've asked for the retentions department. I know people with Rogers and Bell who could probably go into their headquarters and self-immolate and no one would notice -- probably would sic a collections agency on the next of kin, lol.

    Anyway, it should be mandatory that once you own your phone outright that the carrier be required to unlock your phone upon request and inform you of such a right unsolicited. The sticking point should only be what the penalties are if you break a contract early, and it looks like the CRTC is actually addressing this.
    02-16-13 10:43 PM
  11. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    Sometimes the locks make sense when the device is heavily subsidized in the hopes the customer will provide a payback by paying the high monthly usage rates, text fees, data fees and heavy penalties when caps are exceeded. A fair amount would be to charge an unlock fee that should be no more than the balance of the remaining value of the original subsidy. The cost should then be zero at the end of the contract.
    The problem is Bell and the other carriers don't pay the manufacture any money to have the devices locked before they are sold to Bell. Bell has made that very clear to the CRTC by telling this...but then have the gawl to tell the CRTC "well if we don't get the devices locked from the manufacture, then the manufacture will most likely be less interested in selling the devices to us..." the CRTC snapped back asking Bell to show them were that has been the case where a cell phone carrier wasn't privy to a new device because they asked for them unlocked.

    Locking is really just another form of control which the cell companies put on their customers, they want to control your device and service with them, not that they would lose the ability to turn your service off if they though you were abusing it. I just find the whole controlling your device thing rude and un-business like as you have already bought the device and legally own it when you sign up for the 3 year service so why should they be able to slap a lock on it IDK.

    Its like buying a car, if the manufactures where able to provide you with 3 years of service and sell you the car a lower price that you buy up front should they have full control of your car even though you own it? This is what cell companies in Canada are doing currently, and it needs to stop once and for all!!
    Last edited by smoothrunnings; 02-17-13 at 08:41 PM.
    02-17-13 08:08 PM
  12. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    The US takes a step backwards and makes unlocking phones illegal.
    Canada takes a step forward and makes unlocking phones madatory.

    Gotta love living in the greatest country in the world. Canada!
    Canada is moving forward and following Europe in their foot steps. We can't help it if the American's are living in the stone age!
    02-17-13 08:10 PM
  13. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    I have been a customer of Telus for years. I have to say that although they still remind me of a big Canadian oligopoly, they are by far the best of the big three carriers bar none. I've been with them for 10 years and they actually make an effort when I've asked for the retentions department. I know people with Rogers and Bell who could probably go into their headquarters and self-immolate and no one would notice -- probably would sic a collections agency on the next of kin, lol.

    Anyway, it should be mandatory that once you own your phone outright that the carrier be required to unlock your phone upon request and inform you of such a right unsolicited. The sticking point should only be what the penalties are if you break a contract early, and it looks like the CRTC is actually addressing this.
    Telus just kills me, they have this notion that Canadian's are dumb and they are GOD! Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound so harsh. But when Telus sat in front the CRTC last week they made themselves look so bad to the public's eye (for those who watched and listen to proceedings) that day that I can't understand how they make any money. They remind me how NCR use to be when they were HUGE!

    The lawyer for Telus, who was Telus big wig top brass lawyer thought he could walk in and throw his arms up in the air and the CRTC would bow to him. It was funny to listen him but very sad at the same time as the CRTC made and Telus look so bad that it was likely going to be his last day working for Telus. The guy thought he knew it all and one of the CRTC people asked him if he knew how an insurance company legally worked. Well the Telus lawyer majorly epic failed in his response which allowed the CRTC to drop a nuclear bomb on his head and then they opened fired on the rest of the information Telus provided them prior to them appearing in front of the CRTC.

    Now I know the this likely happens with all the carriers but one of the things Telus told the CRTC that when a customers 3 year contract is over with them its the customers responsibility to call them and let them know otherwise Telus continues to charge the customer the same price every month afterwards. Sounds very like someone has been possibly committing corporate fraud.

    I would also say after the war was over with Telus the remainder cell phone companies seeing what happen took a much lighter approach when speaking to the CRTC, acknowledging that they themselves could see where they need to make changes to improve things. Sure there was a little bit of fighting along the way but for the most part it was pretty mellow after the Telus battle.

    On different note a close friend of mine use to work for Telus selling their internet bandwidth to corporate clients, she worked there for 15 years working in the same sales department, some years she was 1st or 2nd highest in sales. When Cogeco and Cogent were selling 10, 100 and Ge service for almost half of what Telus was offering for Telus management was so naive that they refused to lower their prices to compete. She eventually had to leave Telus as her manager was abusing her, she would come home at night and cry in a corner of her house...how any company can do that to their employees I don't know, especially the ones who have been working with them for a long time, but I told her she should have sued them...

    I will never use Telus as a provider!
    02-17-13 08:35 PM
38 12

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