[TgeekB]

Good luck with that. I left android because I had no choice on the 18 google apps I had no choice in installing and that rung in the background junking up the OS. plus they are updates that hit randomly and frequently. the only g-app I used, occassionaly, was the maps and even there I pretty much switched to Here.

Very happy with my Classic and LTE nexus 7 running CM...

Updates are a bad thing?

[JeepBB]

There is a market for BB10, it just requires some patience and it is smaller than most on crackberry understand, but it is still a viable market.

There is no viable market for BB10. If there were, BB would not have needed to release an Android phone. If that's the foundation of your argument, it falls down... right there.

standard specs hardware wide, GSM, direct to consumers, choice of OS....slab + pkb...perhaps slightly more for the BB10 for support reasons. I personally would pay slightly more for a BB10 device over and android, provided they get the price right ($299-399 USD...maybe a standard $349 for android phones...they need to keep it in the $315 per device range for earnings)

BB already sell direct to consumers: shopblackberry.

BB's "share" of the revenue is $315 when they sell phones at $600+. I doubt BB can even build a competitive phone for $299, but assuming they could, their share wouldn't be enough to make it worthwhile. Much as I'm sure you are sincere, you are in a tiny, tiny minority. The "world", as I've said, is not interested in selling the Apple/Android phones they have now so they can instead buy a BB phone. BB cannot sustain hardware for you and the rest of that tiny number of people.

[anon(1723145)]

I left android because I had no choice on the 18 google apps I had no choice in installing and that rung in the background junking up the OS.

Yeah, all those permanent Google apps on Android bug the crap out of me too.



ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.858

[hoytbowhunter]

But throughout those months the people in the store tried their best to dissuade people from buying them, even in Toronto.
If you tried to get a BB10 device or a PlayBook, they looked at you as if you were from another planet.
When I asked them to show me a tablet or phone that could livestream BBC World News live in HD in Toronto and hot swap the simcard like I was doing in front of them on my Playbook and Z10 in February 2013, they shut up.
No IoS device was a better media player in February 2013 than the playBook and Z10. Ipads and and iphones could not play flash nor youtube videos...and users thought it was acceptable.

That's crazy because where I'm from they tried to sell me the Priv before anything else. They said the Priv was a great device and when I ask the worker how he knew it was a good device, he pulled out the BlackBerry Priv. They have them for work phones at Att here in Oklahoma.

Posted via the CrackBerry App on my BlackBerry Priv �

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Apple has always bought their chips and displays from elsewhere because they are not semiconductor or display manufacturers. Samsung is. For that reason, it is cheaper for Samsung to make phones.
Samsung's problem is that they cannot design the chips and the software as well as Apple does...

Samsung also can't ask and get a premium for their devices for more than a few months, before the next shiny Android device comes to market by one of the other OEMS. In the Android world what is considered a flagship today will be midgrade in 8 months. Something that I guess Chen didn't want to consider while he talks of new midgrade devices.

[OnTheFence001]

There is no viable market for BB10. If there were, BB would not have needed to release an Android phone. If that's the foundation of your argument, it falls down... right there.

First, I appreciate your comments- seen you and that panda avatar on a number of posts Ive found interesting.

It's a nascent market for sure, and, as you indicate, it's a "tiny number of people." Why is it tho that new non-google-android and ios competitors are cropping up? Ive lurked here long enough to know that my comments, via a forum, can be viewed as na�ve, but there is a market for something non-google, non-ios, but as you point out, possibly not BB10. I like my classic as a smart, feature phone (rather than just a smart phone). It's a feature phone with better email integration, some apps, hot spot, wi fi calling, carrier unlocked....the flexibility I want. I bought a classic off swappa a few months back (I think you may have provided some useful comment on that decision)...best phone Ive had. Just got the wife a z10 just to have integrated video calling.

As many have lamented here, the me-too android game, while necessary (I agree) should not displace bb10...I know it's not easy to maintain 2 os'.

Right now, Im just saying break even. Standardize hardware, spec, choice of os. Maybe just a couple of carriers, at&t and t-mo, focus internationally...how many phones is the break even point?

You also have to admit, that however small, BB does have a market and with no BB10, they could very well be ceding that market (most likely to Microsoft).

They would have to reshuffle, stay lean (even more lean) and at some point, double down. Mazda rotary engine.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

First, I appreciate your comments- seen you and that panda avatar on a number of posts Ive found interesting.

It's a nascent market for sure, and, as you indicate, it's a "tiny number of people." Why is it tho that new non-google-android and ios competitors are cropping up? Ive lurked here long enough to know that my comments, via a forum, can be viewed as na�ve, but there is a market for something non-google, non-ios, but as you point out, possibly not BB10. I like my classic as a smart, feature phone (rather than just a smart phone). It's a feature phone with better email integration, some apps, hot spot, wi fi calling, carrier unlocked....the flexibility I want. I bought a classic off swappa a few months back (I think you may have provided some useful comment on that decision)...best phone Ive had. Just got the wife a z10 just to have integrated video calling.

As many have lamented here, the me-too android game, while necessary (I agree) should not displace android...I know it's not easy to maintain 2 os'.

Right now, Im just saying break even. Standardize hardware, spec, choice of os. Maybe just a couple of carriers, at&t and t-mo, focus internationally...how many phones is the break even point?

You also have to admit, that however small, BB does have a market and with no BB10, they could very well be ceding that market (most likely to Microsoft).

They would have to reshuffle, stay lean (even more lean) and at some point, double down. Mazda rotary engine.

What new "on-google-android and ios competitors are cropping up".... ? FireFox... history, Sailfish... almost history, Tizen... depends on how much Samsung is going to invest in it, won't see it in mainstream markets. Chiness have a couple... again won't see them in mainstream markets.

The thing is.. it's too late, Chen pulled the plug on BB10 more than a year ago now. Most of the people that worked on BB10 or it's apps are gone, some were moved to Android which will be the focus as long as there is a BlackBerry hardware division. To resurrect BB10 would be a major investment for Chen, forcing him to burn a big chunk of his reserves and probable getting himself fired by shareholders. As they would have no reason to expect a new BB10 device to sell any better than the past ones.

[bh7171]

Samsung also can't ask and get a premium for their devices for more than a few months, before the next shiny Android device comes to market by one of the other OEMS. In the Android world what is considered a flagship today will be midgrade in 8 months. Something that I guess Chen didn't want to consider while he talks of new midgrade devices.

And you don't think Apple is now in this same scenario? Why did Apple just cut production of the iPhone by 30 percent? (pssst it's because their not selling) Nobody can keep pace with the relentless release of "new and improved" mobile devices.

The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport

[MikeX74]

And you don't think Apple is now in this same scenario? Why did Apple just cut production of the iPhone by 30 percent? (pssst it's because their not selling) Nobody can keep pace with the relentless release of "new and improved" mobile devices.

The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport

It's easy to see an iPhone order cut and think that it means trouble(and it seems as though that it's the default reaction). One possible reason for it is because they know how many they expect to sell in the next quarter and have had their supply chain adjust production accordingly. Why make more phones than you need? Cook and Jeff Williams know how to manage their supply chain properly. All we know is that production was cut, and since I like to look beyond a headline, a question I have is, which iPhone models did they cut production of? They still make the 6 and 6+.Did they cut those? Was it the 5C when the SE came out? Was it the 5S? Was it a mix of different models? Only Apple knows.

On a side note, I find the constant refrain of "Apple is having problems, too" really quite fascinating. It's as if people have an emotional need for Apple to fare as poorly as BlackBerry does at the moment. Truthfully, if I were John Chen, I'd sell my soul to have Apple's "problems."

[OnTheFence001]

What new "on-google-android and ios competitors are cropping up".... ? FireFox... history, Sailfish... almost history, Tizen... depends on how much Samsung is going to invest in it, won't see it in mainstream markets. Chiness have a couple... again won't see them in mainstream markets.

The thing is.. it's too late, Chen pulled the plug on BB10 more than a year ago now. Most of the people that worked on BB10 or it's apps are gone, some were moved to Android which will be the focus as long as there is a BlackBerry hardware division. To resurrect BB10 would be a major investment for Chen, forcing him to burn a big chunk of his reserves and probable getting himself fired by shareholders. As they would have no reason to expect a new BB10 device to sell any better than the past ones.

It doesn't need resurrecting, it needs maintenance. Also note the EU antitrust action against google that is making the rounds on the news cycles today. Not that I agree with the Chen "anti-competitive" comment re apps a few months back, but the antitrust action I believe does cite the play store, in it's current form, as anticompetitive. Lots of correlation here with the 1990's FTC actions against ms and the bundling of software.

I think CM alone- and they way they are pressing forward- as enough evidence of "cropping up." One+ has found some portion of this non-android, non-ios market; they are, I think, viable. Blackphone is viable at some level. MS continues to throw $ as their mobile software- of course they have the $ to do this, but I don't think their money people would let them do it absent some market consideration. I am not sure the right combination of hardware/ software to reach viability (again, here it's just break even). I don't know that they can, but a priv with BB10 sales would be an interesting piece of evidence in this equation.

tizen has been brought to market- not with great fanfare, but, again, I am sure there were business considerations and the decision that at some level, Samsung can make it viable. I am not sure where that effort is at currently. This point is, admittedly, based on old data in the HDD between my ears.

I recently saw an unlocked s7 for $499. Hardware alone aint gonna do it for BB. Android with a few BB enhancements aint gonna work. Again, Ive been around here long enough to have seen all the "tides are shifting" expectations. I do see the tides shifting, but the difference is, I see the body of water as an inland lake, not the ocean.

[OnTheFence001]

Updates are a bad thing?

if I don't use the app and I don't have a choice on it being updated and it slows my phone down thereby degrading the experience, then yes, updates are a bad thing. I don't need an update to an app I don't use.

[johnny_bravo72]

if I don't use the app and I don't have a choice on it being updated and it slows my phone down thereby degrading the experience, then yes, updates are a bad thing. I don't need an update to an app I don't use.

If you don't need the app but can't uninstall it, just disable it. No more updates after that.

*C5303

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

if I don't use the app and I don't have a choice on it being updated and it slows my phone down thereby degrading the experience, then yes, updates are a bad thing. I don't need an update to an app I don't use.

Did you ever tried to disable those apps in Android? (would have loved that feature for BBM and Amazon App Store on BB10) Haven't noticed any of the disabled apps ever being updated... but it's only been a month. Have noticed that there "seems" to always be some app needing an update... I think in just a month of owning my Droid Turbo 2 I've upgraded FaceBook four times... But it does it without me needing to do anything most time.

I haven't had any issue with a rogue app slowing down or degrading my experience on Android, as I indicated I have disabled a number of Verizon, Motorola and even Google Apps... With my Z10 I had to be very careful about background apps, not using location services... anything that even sipped of my precious battery. But with this very efficient and well powered Droid... I've got all sorts of background process going and I still get two+ days on a charge.

[I will be back]

A refreshed Z30 will remain the cry of many but there you have it, again.

I'll stick to my Z30 till Surface Phone

[darkehawke]

if I don't use the app and I don't have a choice on it being updated and it slows my phone down thereby degrading the experience, then yes, updates are a bad thing. I don't need an update to an app I don't use.

Then dont update. It's simple

[Bbnivende]

It doesn't need resurrecting, it needs maintenance. Also note the EU antitrust action against google that is making the rounds on the news cycles today. Not that I agree with the Chen "anti-competitive" comment re apps a few months back, but the antitrust action I believe does cite the play store, in it's current form, as anticompetitive. Lots of correlation here with the 1990's FTC actions against ms and the bundling of software.

I think CM alone- and they way they are pressing forward- as enough evidence of "cropping up." One+ has found some portion of this non-android, non-ios market; they are, I think, viable. Blackphone is viable at some level. MS continues to throw $ as their mobile software- of course they have the $ to do this, but I don't think their money people would let them do it absent some market consideration. I am not sure the right combination of hardware/ software to reach viability (again, here it's just break even). I don't know that they can, but a priv with BB10 sales would be an interesting piece of evidence in this equation.

tizen has been brought to market- not with great fanfare, but, again, I am sure there were business considerations and the decision that at some level, Samsung can make it viable. I am not sure where that effort is at currently. This point is, admittedly, based on old data in the HDD between my ears.

I recently saw an unlocked s7 for $499. Hardware alone aint gonna do it for BB. Android with a few BB enhancements aint gonna work. Again, Ive been around here long enough to have seen all the "tides are shifting" expectations. I do see the tides shifting, but the difference is, I see the body of water as an inland lake, not the ocean.

Chen said he needed to sell 10 million BB10 devices a year to recover all of his divisional costs

[JulesDB]

There is no viable market for BB10. If there were, BB would not have needed to release an Android phone. If that's the foundation of your argument, it falls down... right there.

BlackBerry has to release an Android phone because now it's tied hand and feet to Google that was once it's competitor, that it's regolating what to do...

A BlackBerry10 device could sell more that those miserabile Priv's figures but who'd buy a BB10 Phone without Android Runtime?

Posted via CB10

[silversmith75]

BB10 is done whether you want to believe it or not. Do you know how many people, over the last few years, have moved on to Android? More than you wish to know.

And just a word of advice, using words like crapdroid makes you sound like you're in grade school.

They moved on cause there was no option to upgrade and stay

#luvmybb10os

[silversmith75]

BlackBerry has to release an Android phone because now it's tied hand and feet to Google that was once it's competitor, that it's regolating what to do...

A BlackBerry10 device could sell more that those miserabile Priv's figures but who'd buy a BB10 Phone without Android Runtime?

Posted via CB10

Agreed if they had released a priv with bb10 I think it would have sold better than the android ver. But it would have needed a updated run time. If they could have figured away to get play store on the devise would have been even better

#luvmybb10os

[darkehawke]

They moved on cause there was no option to upgrade and stay

#luvmybb10os

I moved because of the lack of options for BB10 granted, but i would have moved on eventually anyway because the bugs in BB10 drove me crazy

[OnTheFence001]

Did you ever tried to disable those apps in Android? (would have loved that feature for BBM and Amazon App Store on BB10) Haven't noticed any of the disabled apps ever being updated... but it's only been a month. Have noticed that there "seems" to always be some app needing an update... I think in just a month of owning my Droid Turbo 2 I've upgraded FaceBook four times... But it does it without me needing to do anything most time.

I haven't had any issue with a rogue app slowing down or degrading my experience on Android, as I indicated I have disabled a number of Verizon, Motorola and even Google Apps... With my Z10 I had to be very careful about background apps, not using location services... anything that even sipped of my precious battery. But with this very efficient and well powered Droid... I've got all sorts of background process going and I still get two+ days on a charge.

it updates because you are always signed in with your google account. the minute you unsnych that account, no updates. Im sure you are aware.

Yeah I guess I coulda disabled them...I really dont use any google apps though. sure I dont have to update them, but then I have this huge list of updates. Also they (google) I think link these together somehow in some instances...not sure. meaning, you have to update those you dont use to use the ones you do use. I think hangouts did this, but again, I didnt use it. just annoying...some of this comes with my perspective that google is just a big ad company, but to each their own.

[OnTheFence001]

Chen said he needed to sell 10 million BB10 devices a year to recover all of his divisional costs

as much as I like my classic and dont want google android, I dont see this happening. 3-5 million tops. If there's no way given that realistic # of units, I suppose BB10 will die.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

it updates because you are always signed in with your google account. the minute you unsnych that account, no updates. Im sure you are aware.

Yeah I guess I coulda disabled them...I really dont use any google apps though. sure I dont have to update them, but then I have this huge list of updates. Also they (google) I think link these together somehow in some instances...not sure. meaning, you have to update those you dont use to use the ones you do use. I think hangouts did this, but again, I didnt use it. just annoying...some of this comes with my perspective that google is just a big ad company, but to each their own.

Yes you are always signed into your Google Account, much like you are always signed into you BBID.

But you do have the ability to go into the settings and "opt out" or unsync a number of Google features that you may feel you don't need or don't trust. On my Droid there is a heading for Google under settings that has lots of things to turn off. And under accounts you can also go to your Google Account and turn off a number of "synced" App data. Chrome has it's own settings.. or you can use another browser.

Then all you have to do is disable the apps you don't want.... I disabled most all of the communications apps... Gmail, Hangouts, Messaging, Calendar, Contacts (BlackBerry Manager installs it's own versions). But yes if you leave Hangouts running... it's going to need access to Contacts, Gmail and Calendar as these apps are associated with one another...

My perspective.... there aren't a whole lot of options.

[eshropshire]

Also: drop Passport's price to 300$ and it'll do better than crapdroid Priv.

Here in Italy it costs 440�, talking about prices!!!!

Posted via CB10

At $300 there is no point in BlackBerry selling Passports. This is the problem no one wants to pay enough for BB10 phones. All I have heard for the past 2.5 years is people saying they will buy when the phones get discounted. One of the reasons BB has one of the lowest ASP for their phones.

[indian_dude]

Make blackberry z30 to android, were the blackberry written in bottom should be three buttons

Posted via CB10