[app_Developer]

Which is likelier to come first, the BB10 niche suddenly becoming profitable or Hell freezing over?

Or, if they had persisted with BB10, BlackBerry simply running out of money. I have them finishing in this order:

1.) running out of money (especially if they also advertised as heavily as some here want)
2.) hell freezing over
3.) BB10 becoming popular

[anon(8163415)]

Which is likelier to come first, the BB10 niche suddenly becoming profitable or Hell freezing over?

This is quite simple, Priv was obviously too expensive, that was a price error from the getgo which contributed to its poor sales. I won't include the mass Priv returns (Due to it having Android, which people did not want). Had the Priv been released with BB10, you automatically gain most if not all Z30 and a good chunk of Z10 owners as customers again. This company Would Have SOLD 10X more BB10 Priv. This is basic economics.

Instead Chen releases a complete Niche Device that nobody has heard of powered by an Un-efficient, foreign OS called Android. With a straight face, you really think Chen made the right decision with the Priv being released with Android?

[TgeekB]

This is quite simple, Priv was obviously too expensive, that was a price error from the getgo which contributed to its poor sales. I won't include the mass Priv returns (Due to it having Android, which people did not want). Had the Priv been released with BB10, you automatically gain most if not all Z30 and a good chunk of Z10 owners as customers again. This company Would Have SOLD 10X more BB10 Priv. This is basic economics.

Instead Chen releases a complete Niche Device that nobody has heard of powered by an Un-efficient, foreign OS called Android. With a straight face, you really think Chen made the right decision with the Priv being released with Android?

You've obviously had more beers than me tonight.

[anon(8163415)]

You've obviously had more beers than me tonight.

LOL

[thurask]

This is quite simple, Priv was obviously too expensive, that was a price error from the getgo which contributed to its poor sales. I won't include the mass Priv returns (Due to it having Android, which people did not want). Had the Priv been released with BB10, you automatically gain most if not all Z30 and a good chunk of Z10 owners as customers again. This company Would Have SOLD 10X more BB10 Priv. This is basic economics.

Instead Chen releases a complete Niche Device that nobody has heard of powered by an Un-efficient, foreign OS called Android. With a straight face, you really think Chen made the right decision with the Priv being released with Android?

That's not basic economics, that's wishful thinking. How many current Z10 and Z30 customers put together do you think there are? Enough to sustain the entire handset division? What about people who fondly reminisce about physical keyboards, what should they do? Odds are, you ask a BlackBerry refugee what they miss, it'll probably be the keyboard on their old Bold or Q10.

If the one change for the Priv was the OS (i.e. the exact same abysmal carrier launch at too high a price), the fact that it's running some moribund OS instead of Android (boo!) would make sales even lower, if such a thing was possible.

As for releasing a niche device: since attempting to hit the mainstream resulted in a billion dollar inventory write-off, awful reviews, high return rates and mass sackings, why not attempt something BlackBerry tried before and found some hint of success (i.e. sliders)?

With a straight face, I do think Chen made the right decision to ditch the raging dumpster fire that is BB10 and launch the Priv, although I do think his execution thereof was mediocre at best.

[nt300]

Or, if they had persisted with BB10, BlackBerry simply running out of money. I have them finishing in this order:

1.) running out of money (especially if they also advertised as heavily as some here want)
2.) hell freezing over
3.) BB10 becoming popular

Interesting comment, seeing how the Priv made BlackBerry a ton of cash. Oh wait? BlackBerry wouldn't be running out of money, they would have been selling enough BB10 phones to help keep revenue up. All it takes is the one smart phone BBRY customers asked for and a bit of Marketing. Instead John Chen does it backwards. Name one device John Chen came out with that sold well? Priv? no, Leap? no, Classic? no, Passport? no. Yet he continues his failed strategy with 2 more Android phones LOLOL

[anon(8163415)]

That's not basic economics, that's wishful thinking. How many current Z10 and Z30 customers put together do you think there are? Enough to sustain the entire handset division? What about people who fondly reminisce about physical keyboards, what should they do? Odds are, you ask a BlackBerry refugee what they miss, it'll probably be the keyboard on their old Bold or Q10.

If the one change for the Priv was the OS (i.e. the exact same abysmal carrier launch at too high a price), the fact that it's running some moribund OS instead of Android (boo!) would make sales even lower, if such a thing was possible.

As for releasing a niche device: since attempting to hit the mainstream resulted in a billion dollar inventory write-off, awful reviews, high return rates and mass sackings, why not attempt something BlackBerry tried before and found some hint of success (i.e. sliders)?

With a straight face, I do think Chen made the right decision to ditch the raging dumpster fire that is BB10 and launch the Priv, although I do think his execution thereof was mediocre at best.

I have to respectfully disagree. But we are entitled to our own opinions. Z10 and Z30 owners combined amount to approx: 8M, not including new customers to the platform.

Let me ask you one more question, had the Priv been sold at the proper price with a bit of marketing, how about this device giving the user the automatic option for BB10 or Android at will. Choose either one. Turn on your device and it asks you which OS to install. This way it caters to those that want BB10 and those that want to try out Android. You will quickly realize more would be opting for BB10 over its downgraded counterpart IMO.

By the way, "Slider" that was the companies biggest mistake. Priv would have been better off being an all touch with respectful specs. By going with the Slider, you automatically cater to less then 1% versus 99% that prefer All Touch and 0.1% that prefer Physical Keyboard.

[terminatorx]

BB10 is the best mobile OS and best Platform ever created. Chen going Android is very wrong. Abandoning the best for such a useless Android platform is irresponsible on his part.

Makes you wonder what Mike Lazaridis thinks about all this. I would love to hear his take on what has become of BlackBerry today. Whatever this man means to people here, he did create the company and made it rise to the height it was at. I am sure he regrets some decisions and the way things turned out but I really can't see him approving of this move to Android. That's one book I would buy for sure if he ever wrote one.

I agree though that the Priv was and still is priced way too high. They priced themselves out of market. These other devices priced around 400 have a much better chance at selling more units. But I think they should devise a way to load BB10 as an option, on all of them including Priv. That would guarantee a lot more sales.

[TgeekB]

Slider. Huge mistake.

[nt300]

Having the option to load BB10 and Android on phones would be a win win for the diehard BB10 fan and those that don't mind giving Android a spin. That would save the hardware division for sure.

[terminatorx]

Having the option to load BB10 and Android on phones would be a win win for the diehard BB10 fan and those that don't mind giving Android a spin. That would save the hardware division for sure.

Agree. This would also be a breakthrough in the now ultra competitive smartphone industry. No other company has produced a mass scale device that allows two operating system options, so that would be quite the awesome feature!

[BigRob673]

I bet it will be a Storm and a Bold 9000 with an Android theme. Also a new tag line "That's all you need"


Classicly posted until I can update to the Priv

[Brandon Andrathy]

I have wondered why they don't do this!!!

[thurask]

By the way, "Slider" that was the companies biggest mistake. Priv would have been better off being an all touch with respectful specs. By going with the Slider, you automatically cater to less then 1% versus 99% that prefer All Touch and 0.1% that prefer Physical Keyboard.

By being a BlackBerry, it automatically caters to less than 0.3%, so don't expect a miraculous rebirth. And if all-touch BB10 phones were the magic ***** pill you think they are, you'd think the Z30 would have done something to stop the nosedive that the company took in 2013. To 99.7% of consumers, it doesn't matter if it's a full touch or not as long as it's a BlackBerry; the years of baggage from BBOS, plus the failed first impression of literally all of the BB10 device lineup means an uphill battle for any device they put out.

As for the Priv, it was supposed to be their last bullet: it addresses the main flaw with BB10 (apps), but its pricing and availability issues meant it had not much of a chance in the market. If it was more successful, then BlackBerry could gracefully transition their devices away from the "niche OS for weird people" phase they were in in 2014-15 to "Android but better", but alas. I've been told that the Rome and/or Hamburg is the absolute final farewell tour for BB as a device manufacturer; if that doesn't work, goodbye devices. Given the hand they've been dealt by Mike, Jim and Thorsten, I wouldn't bet on setting sales records.

The reception for pretty much any BlackBerry device in the past three years has been dismal outside of a handful of circlejerking Internet forums. BB10 native development's coffin is mostly nails at this point, with no SDK updates since 2014 and Facebook (among other major developers) leaving BB10 in the dust if they even showed up in the first place. 10.3.2 was just incremental patches and security features, nothing terribly consumer-facing. 10.3.3 is literally a security certification, a formality that is occupying the time of the post-layoff skeleton crew in charge of BB10. The OS is in no state to bank the company on. And Qualcomm knows this, which is why they're not bothering with device drivers for anything other than the 8960/8974 chips that are the bedrock of BB10 devices; that doesn't include the Priv. If you're convinced otherwise, go rant at the Qualcomm CEO to create updated device drivers for BB10, regardless the cost. This precludes porting BB10 to the Priv, since it would require much development work to support a new screen resolution, new chipset, sliding mechanism, etc. To get a finished product on the handful of developers remaining at BlackBerry requires time and money, both of which are in short supply.

And before you bring up "proper marketing", consider the Herculean effort it would take to make the 99.7% want to join the 0.3% in the BlackBerry camp. I remember that the Z10 had actual marketing, with that Super Bowl ad, that annoying Tame Impala ad on TV, heck, I even saw a "BB10 Experience" van show up to my university at one point. All that did was amplify its shortcomings even more, which explains the non-existent reception to the Z30 and anything following. Contrary to what you may think, you don't get second or third chances with the public. Again, since you're really confident that the sheeple want a high-end BB10 touch device, go try and sell them one, and then wonder why they could possibly want working, no-bull**** Facebook/Whatsapp/Instagram/Snapchat/home automation/Android Auto/smart watches/etc.

Now, calling the Priv a sales failure is being generous, but it shows that the problems with BlackBerry devices can't be fixed overnight. The high-end BB10 device the paste eater brigade is clamoring for will be the perfect union of specs that make BlackBerry think they can get away with charging too much (cf. Priv) and an OS that excites less than half of one percent of the market and firmly cemented BlackBerry in last place since 2013.

In short, let it go.

[thurask]

Makes you wonder what Mike Lazaridis thinks about all this. I would love to hear his take on what has become of BlackBerry today. Whatever this man means to people here, he did create the company and made it rise to the height it was at. I am sure he regrets some decisions and the way things turned out but I really can't see him approving of this move to Android.

Mike Lazaridis is part of why they moved to Android in the first place.

[Bbnivende]

I am running many of the BlackBerry PRIV apps on a Samsung and I like them. If BlackBerry was willing to spend the money they might be able to inject a good measure of the BlackBerry experience into Android. They need to keep on adding the look and feel of using a Blackberry. I think it is possible but I question BlackBerry's commitment.

I am looking forward to trying out their newly announced phones.

[IEatBlackBerries]

People will get a refreshed Z30...................... it'll just run Android.

Wouldn't surprise me LOL.

[bh7171]

That's not basic economics, that's wishful thinking. How many current Z10 and Z30 customers put together do you think there are? Enough to sustain the entire handset division? What about people who fondly reminisce about physical keyboards, what should they do? Odds are, you ask a BlackBerry refugee what they miss, it'll probably be the keyboard on their old Bold or Q10.

If the one change for the Priv was the OS (i.e. the exact same abysmal carrier launch at too high a price), the fact that it's running some moribund OS instead of Android (boo!) would make sales even lower, if such a thing was possible.

As for releasing a niche device: since attempting to hit the mainstream resulted in a billion dollar inventory write-off, awful reviews, high return rates and mass sackings, why not attempt something BlackBerry tried before and found some hint of success (i.e. sliders)?

With a straight face, I do think Chen made the right decision to ditch the raging dumpster fire that is BB10 and launch the Priv, although I do think his execution thereof was mediocre at best.

Do you really like Android over BlackBerry 10?

The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport

[IEatBlackBerries]

Do you really like Android over BlackBerry 10?

The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport

I absolutely do. I think the launch of Android by BlackBerry was mediocre at best but it's a huge improvement over BB10. I do wish BlackBerry would have brought all of BB10's features and main applications over to Android, the execution of Android by BlackBerry would have been loads better.

I originally used a BlackBerry (my first device was a Pearl Flip) before moving to Android. I then came back to BlackBerry where I have been since 2011. After moving back to Android, it becomes apparent how basic and simple BB10 is. It's not very advanced, I would call it no frills.

While I wish Android by BlackBerry would allow me to root or install custom add-ons requiring root, I'm not complaining that much. Android is a step up from BB10 because it has all the applications I want to use, widgets and also time-saving features. I heavily use Google Now and I also like getting notifications from all my apps without the app developer having to integrate it into the HUB (which pretty much needs to happen on BB10).

Don't get me wrong, I love BB10 features like file manager, timeshift, changing music tracks using volume rockers etc. But Android by BlackBerry is just a better execution of a mobile operating system. It's more advanced and developed. It shows too.

[thurask]

Do you really like Android over BlackBerry 10?

The White Knight-BlackBerry Passport

Now that I've used it, yes.

[JeepBB]

Slider. Huge mistake.

Much as I personally like the slider format, I tend to agree. It's a niche format that doesn't appeal to the majority.

I suspect Chen was kind of forced into it. The slider was considered the best option available - a full screen touch would have been lost in a sea of similar Android phones from established vendors, while a 'Classic' format would have been dismissed as same ol, same ol.

A slider was probably judged as the best compromise format.

[cgk]

Much as I personally like the slider format, I tend to agree. It's a niche format that doesn't appeal to the majority.

Slider is niche or is a *keyboard* niche? And a slider keyboard is a niche within a niche?

[JeepBB]

Slider is niche or is a *keyboard* niche? And a slider keyboard is a niche within a niche?

Either way, neither niche is large. The PKB niche might be slightly larger... maybe even into double-figures!

I fear for the future of BB's Android experiment. Now that Knox has stolen BB's "secured Android" feature, all that they have is the PKB and the Hub-lite to differentiate them from other Android phones... And both of those USP's appeal to tiny niches. I can't see a future Vienna (or whatever it's called this week) offering any wider appeal, and it'll be the sales disaster the Priv clearly is.

BB won't save Hardware by making phones for the 0.2%.

[ToniCipriani]

Hub-lite

The one in Marsmallow? Nah. More like Hub Mini Mega Micro Max.

I still like it better than the stupid BB10 one. It doesn't remind me every 5 minutes I'm connected to Blend.

[deadcowboy]

Looks like more Passports were sold on the launch day of the Passport online than Priv's were sold so far through all carriers.
At least yesterday's BerryFlow said so.

Even in this last quarter, when everybody knew BB10 was EOL, more BB10 phones were sold than Priv's. The ASP at 315 dollars was the same as in the previous quarter.

Are you serious? Crazy. BlackBerry should have kept BB10 but sold a BlackBerry suite on iOS and Android.

Posted via CB10