06-25-12 11:21 AM
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  1. JTATL's Avatar
    We all have to start facing the fact that RIM has already faced; that they cant complete against Apple, Google and Microsoft. At the end of last quarter RIM had 2 billion on hand which isnt alot when you consider that the two tech giants mentioned keep 60 billion plus on hand each. 65% of RIM's revenue is handsets however it doesnt flow through to bottom line profits.

    BB10 or BBX or whatever it was to be will never be able to compete with ios 6, windows 8 and the next version of android. The playbook was an incomplete device and ultimately the most we can hope to get updated to is os 2.0. It unlikely that the bb10 with its cascade features would translate well to playbook anyways; its designed for one handed manipulation and like it or not the playbook requires two hands.

    Companies that cant compete go bankrupt, sell off divisions or are bought outright. Its just the way of commerce. BB rested on its laurels, didnt innovate and this is what happens when you fall out of fashion. BB was a business fashion, a business acessory; they should have stuck with the business market. This probably would have happened anyways as the lines that delineated a personal device from a business device are permanently blurred as companies have allow BYOD. Well in the end I enjoyed owning blackberries for the last 10 years however in a changing world ios 6 and android and now win 8 are the future and thats just the way it is. We dont have to like it but in the end it isnt personal its business.
    kingest_kong and nofiz like this.
    06-25-12 09:03 AM
  2. OniBerry's Avatar
    Post again after BB10 drops.

    Obviously not all companies that cannot compete go bankrupt (seriously?) Some are saved by new management, others receive large infusions of $$$, others manage to break out of or into their niche market, etc....

    Whats even more unlikely than Cascades not working on the PB, is you actually having any information that lends credibility to your post. Cascades is the UI framework for BB10, and not a feature (You may be thinking of Peek or something)
    06-25-12 09:11 AM
  3. JTATL's Avatar
    RIM has a responsibility to do what is best for its shareholders in the end not its handset owners. Stock was 33.00 last year now it's 9.00 -10.00. Thats a loss of 70% of market cap. Its now at a 52 week low of 9.40. Thats never a good omen for a company.

    http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/RIMM

    Didnt mention only bankruptcy as an option but I dont see any way that RIM can survive as a stand alone company. Mr. Market never lies and Mr. Market is universally betting against RIM. I suppose this will become clearer once quarterly earnings and guidance estimates are released for the coming year.

    I was thinking of peek you are correct which doesnt look like it would translate well to use on the Playbook.
    Last edited by JTATL; 06-25-12 at 09:24 AM.
    06-25-12 09:18 AM
  4. joski's Avatar
    I still don't get why everything has to be better than everything else. Why in the high holy mother of f**k can't these different devices co-exist?!

    This is getting pathetic. And all this speculation is getting to people's heads, leading them to believe they actually have an idea of what's going on. Well, f**king champster, ya don't. Sorry OP.
    06-25-12 09:26 AM
  5. ayekon's Avatar
    I think we'll all be surprised as to what BB10 can do...
    If RIM dies I will not be buying an Apple product...
    Nor will I carry around an Android...
    06-25-12 09:27 AM
  6. joski's Avatar
    Mr. Market never lies and Mr. Market is universally betting against RIM. I suppose this will become clearer once quarterly earnings and guidance estimates are released for the coming year.
    Mr. Market is a piece of dirty American garbage.
    Notatroll123 and 1magine like this.
    06-25-12 09:27 AM
  7. houshinto#IM's Avatar
    Sorry OP but the truth you subscribe to is your opinion. An opinion that the management at RIM currently does not share. Likewise it is not an opinion that many within the crackberry community share.

    But thanks for adding this thread to the countless others that share the same pessimistic theme for a title......groan.
    06-25-12 09:29 AM
  8. hpjrt's Avatar
    According to Dr. Phil, there is no "truth", merely perception. Unfortunately there are altogether too many uneducated perceptions being floated around here.
    maddie1128 and joski like this.
    06-25-12 09:29 AM
  9. BB10FTW's Avatar
    I still don't get why everything has to be better than everything else. Why in the high holy mother of f**k can't these different devices co-exist?!

    This is getting pathetic. And all this speculation is getting to people's heads, leading them to believe they actually have an idea of what's going on. Well, f**king champster, ya don't. Sorry OP.
    What he said
    06-25-12 09:29 AM
  10. adrenaline_x's Avatar
    I think its more likely that they find a parter (Oracle) and take the company private before its sold off or goes bankrupt.

    Rim isn't doing well in North America, But they are doing well or exceptionally well in the other parts of the world and growing so they aren't sinking like nokia or Palm/hp before them.. YET.
    06-25-12 09:32 AM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    Oh yet another opinion. Thanks for your opinion but I'll stick with my own.
    menaknow and mzceetee like this.
    06-25-12 09:39 AM
  12. JTATL's Avatar
    My opinion wasn't based on my device preference; I have always loved blackberry. However any analyst can tell that from a SWOT perspective RIM is in trouble.

    Strengths - waning
    Weakness - known to market
    Opportunities - not as numerous as expected
    Threats - Apple, Google, Microsoft

    That analysis is used to ascertain the viability of any business.
    06-25-12 09:39 AM
  13. bounce007's Avatar
    I won't "face the truth" until RIM has died, if it does. What would have happened if Apple had "faced the truth" a few years ago? They were in a similar predicament that RIM finds itself in, but they innovated and are now a huge success.

    RIM is trying to innovate. Let's see what happens.
    06-25-12 09:40 AM
  14. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    ....and it just never freakin stops.

    If there were a practical way to quarantine all these half-assed, never ending, and
    annoyingly repetitive premortems to one single thread I'd be the first person to vote
    for it.

    How many times / ways can you "RIM is dead" types say the same thing. Even more
    importantly: WHY?
    06-25-12 09:41 AM
  15. joski's Avatar
    My opinion wasn't based on my device preference; I have always loved blackberry. However any analyst can tell that from a SWOT perspective RIM is in trouble.

    Strengths - waning
    Weakness - known to market
    Opportunities - not as numerous as expected
    Threats - Apple, Google, Microsoft
    Your device preference doesn't matter in this case - only your inability to judge credible/non-credible information from already-questionable source such as an ANALCYST (thanks to whatever user coined that one).

    So you mean to tell me that the AMERICAN stock market has AMERICAN analysts who are acknowledging 3 AMERICAN COMPANIES are a threat to RIM? Craaaaaazytalk!
    bigbmc26 likes this.
    06-25-12 09:44 AM
  16. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Mr. Market never lies and Mr. Market is universally betting against RIM. I suppose this will become clearer once quarterly earnings and guidance estimates are released for the coming year
    Mr. Market was instrumental in financial scandals that have cost people billions. Mr. Market was instrumental in creating the 2008 financial crisis, and is well on its way toward another one that will make 2008 look like a broken piggy bank. Mr.Market is rife with short-sighted greed-driven criminality and corruption.

    Now, as you were saying about Mr. Market?
    bluetroll, kbz1960 and hpjrt like this.
    06-25-12 09:44 AM
  17. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    My opinion wasn't based on my device preference; I have always loved blackberry. However any analyst can tell that from a SWOT perspective RIM is in trouble.

    Strengths - waning
    Weakness - known to market
    Opportunities - not as numerous as expected
    Threats - Apple, Google, Microsoft
    There is another acronym that is apropos to your analysis: S W A G

    Simplistic
    Wild
    Assed
    Guess
    06-25-12 09:47 AM
  18. JTATL's Avatar
    Mr. Market was instrumental in financial scandals that have cost people billions. Mr. Market was instrumental in creating the 2008 financial crisis, and is well on its way toward another one that will make 2008 look like a broken piggy bank. Mr.Market is rife with short-sighted greed-driven criminality and corruption.

    Now, as you were saying about Mr. Market?
    All you said is of course true however investors dont care about that they care about making money in any market.

    I guess the question is this knowing what you know would you invest in RIM? Do you have enough confidence to invest in RIM at the current prce level or is there more downside risk?
    06-25-12 09:47 AM
  19. adrenaline_x's Avatar
    Yup. Rim is in a Dark time and may have been very slow to react, but it appears the New os address alot of the shortcomings that had turned off consumers.

    If you look back 4 years, you could have said thing about MS, Apple and Google in the market place.. But they carved out Huge market share by executing on their plans.. Analysts and alike tend forget things don't stay the same and Rim or someone else can come in and take a huge chunk of marketshare from Rim, Google, Apple and Microsoft.

    Google is growing its market share faster then Apple. Things can change quickly as consumer idea of COOL changes.. Apple used to be the must have device.. But Samsung and their Galaxy lines have changed that Not saying it will happen, but if BB10 surpasses the hype consumer can and will flock to it until the next cool thing comes along.
    06-25-12 09:47 AM
  20. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    ....and it just never freakin stops.

    If there were a practical way to quarantine all these half-assed, never ending, and
    annoyingly repetitive premortems to one single thread I'd be the first person to vote
    for it.

    How many times / ways can you "RIM is dead" types say the same thing. Even more
    importantly: WHY?
    Lol.
    Especially when the thread is called, "Time to face the truth"
    shaleem likes this.
    06-25-12 09:56 AM
  21. JTATL's Avatar
    RIM doesnt have a visionary founder anymore like Gates or Jobs to rely on; so its comparing apples to oranges.
    06-25-12 09:57 AM
  22. brucep1's Avatar
    Why does everything have to be in such absolutes and extremes?

    "You are going to have to face..."

    Why? Who cares? If BB10 is on the shelves in 5 months, great. If it's not there, so be it. I don't have to come to grips with anything.

    Whatever happens, decreased competition means a loss to EVERYONE. Do Apple lovers really want more 4s launches? Do Android fans want another device that loses it's value by 80% in a 6 month window?

    Competition breeds innovation. Root against it, and you root against the company you love as well.
    06-25-12 10:02 AM
  23. sleepngbear's Avatar


    You can't handle the truth.
    shaleem, hpjrt and bluetroll like this.
    06-25-12 10:04 AM
  24. gbwalsh's Avatar
    RIM doesnt have a visionary founder anymore like Gates or Jobs to rely on; so its comparing apples to oranges.

    And you are saying Apple still has Jobs?

    Mabye you should face the truth.
    shaleem and undone like this.
    06-25-12 10:05 AM
  25. JTATL's Avatar
    Again it wasnt the point. The point is those companies had guiding lights. But sadly RIM has become a small company now and neither has the marketing muscle or the fan base to weather the storm. The playbook for them created so much bad press that every tech writer pans any offering they come out with now.

    http://allthingsd.com/20110413/rim-b...aybook-review/
    06-25-12 10:08 AM
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