1. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    As someone who has had the pleasure and privilege of using all of the above operating systems i thought I would like to put my two cents in.

    First if you are an Apple hatter/Android or OS 10 please move on. This is not about any one system being better than the other, just the pluses and minuses. Less the screaming and ranting.

    I would like to point out the BlackBerry missed the boat when it did not push OS 10 right out of the gate as the do all and end all. The OS is very Applisc in feel and is very intuitive. That said even being left behind the OS still does most everything thrown at it. Is a testament to the fine engineering that went into it.

    One of the big things you notice when you come from either Apple or BlackBerry is how intuitive Android is not, things that are easy to find are tucked away. Or you must load another program to make it work. While this was acceptable in the earliest versions of the OS it is becoming old. I know people will say you need to live with the system and in time it gets better. Well yes and no, it is a trade off with BlackBerry because when you are used to a clean OS this is a step down. In the end while my daily driver is still my trusty Passport the day is coming when it will just be overwhelmed and when it happens it will be Apple for me, not because I hate Google or anything as stupid as that; just because I want it to work and work well. With relative ease and no need to piggy back other programs to make it work.
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-09-17 09:28 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I tend to see it as just another customization as opposed to being stuck with the lowest common denominator.

    For instance, Solid Explorer file manager makes BB10 file manager look amateur. Solid Explorer has access to many, many more cloud sources (which can then be password protected), FTP, WebDav, and more. It has themes, drag and drop, split screens, etc. OS integration is just as deep, and more so in many situations.

    Same can be said for browsers, media players/viewers, etc.

    Launchers are another way of completely changing many elements of the UI - leading to better workflow.

    Some people like taking a phone out of its box, and using its basic features straight up. I get that. Apple has mastered that. I just prefer to make the experience my own - I can get work done much faster that way.
    zdaddi likes this.
    07-09-17 10:00 AM
  3. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Apple's approach has always been the same. Impeccably designed and intuitively configured. Hardware and software integrated seamlessly. Android is more akin to a PC, and can tolerate almost endless variation. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages, but the Android approach will invariably be more messy and fractured. BB10 was trying for more of an Apple type of approach, and that is why it failed. No one in the last 30+ years or so has been able to beat Apple at its own game. Well, that coupled with the fact it was too little, too late from BlackBerry from the get go...
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-09-17 10:34 AM
  4. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I tend to see it as just another customization as opposed to being stuck with the lowest common denominator.

    For instance, Solid Explorer file manager makes BB10 file manager look amateur. Solid Explorer has access to many, many more cloud sources (which can then be password protected), FTP, WebDav, and more. It has themes, drag and drop, split screens, etc. OS integration is just as deep, and more so in many situations.

    Same can be said for browsers, media players/viewers, etc.

    Launchers are another way of completely changing many elements of the UI - leading to better workflow.

    Some people like taking a phone out of its box, and using its basic features straight up. I get that. Apple has mastered that. I just prefer to make the experience my own - I can get work done much faster that way.
    Your right I remember when Windows ME came out. Everyone panned it as a dog, but if you went into the OS and turned things off and deleted others it was a fast as ever. Problem is most people want it straight out of the box and this is were Android fails
    07-09-17 11:34 AM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    Apple's a master of innovating short learning curves. Nothing at all wrong with that. Unless you need customization to adapt specific needs... Hence the Android/PC comparisons. A place in the world for both strategies. IMO. Distrusting is not the same as "hate". Ethical integrity is a perfectly rational characteristic to consider when evaluating such intimate communications technology, IMO. In that regard, Apple has done a masterful job of perpetuating its image of integrity, at least. IMO.

    BB10 eventually matured toward an excellent "do all and end all" OS. The shame was that it was pushed "right out of the gate" to run the race of its life before it was even crawling. Had Q10 released with BB10.3.2 and a tool belt, I myself would still be using it, or a descendent. MY 9900 would be a fond but distant memory. How many millions of other legacy users might have also? Enough millions to have possibly "jumpstarted" BB10"s app ecosystem?? We'll never know.

    What I do know is that my brain can handle just about any OS. My hand is more limited. Hardware is far more important to my use case than OS. K1 is certainly in my future for its keyboard but Apple's SE looks most attractive for its relative compactness. IMO. I can foresee carrying both, once this 6 year old 9930 becomes unusable. LOL..
    07-09-17 11:44 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Your right I remember when Windows ME came out. Everyone panned it as a dog, but if you went into the OS and turned things off and deleted others it was a fast as ever. Problem is most people want it straight out of the box and this is were Android fails
    It's not a matter of failure - it's a matter of approach. To me it's a success.

    In my mind, Apple fails because it can't provide the customizations I require.

    To each his own.
    07-09-17 12:06 PM
  7. cribble2k's Avatar
    Problem is most people want it straight out of the box and this is were Android fails
    Have you used any modern Android device?

    As I and many others have said, all the phones come with all the Google software installed, right out of the box. Some OEM's bundle in their own software as well.

    One of the best features of Android is if you don't like the stock apps, you can find alternative options.
    07-09-17 10:36 PM
  8. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Have you used any modern Android device?

    As I and many others have said, all the phones come with all the Google software installed, right out of the box. Some OEM's bundle in their own software as well.

    One of the best features of Android is if you don't like the stock apps, you can find alternative options.
    Really modern?.........no computer back up....oh wait.......that's an app>.......I can go on and on, yes you can customize it more than Apple. But most people don't want to have to hunt and pick. I have used many different phones over the years and I'm sure more than most people. The Android system is fine but it is no longer the new kid or just maturing so your point is what?
    07-10-17 07:26 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    yes you can customize it more than Apple. But most people don't want to have to hunt and pick.
    With 88% of the smartphone market, people on Android either disagree with this, or have accepted the way it is.
    07-10-17 07:46 AM
  10. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    With 88% of the smartphone market, people on Android either disagree with this, or have accepted the way it is.
    Ahhh the old argument, everyone does it so it must be fine. It could have the whole market it does not mean it's good or better. Look no further than VHS. A inferior product compared to BetaMax. Google learned the lesson cheap always wins the day.

    I for one am tired or companies fielding software or devices and we become the beta testers. But hey that's the world we live it does not make it right or wrong. I'm just tired of it.

    One last thought, this whole debate can be center on experience (life). You see I remember when companies gave you real customer service. Not like today, were the customer is viewed more as an issue. There was a time a company would never field the garbage they do today, and if they did . It might be the end of the company. But today we want flash and free.....free.
    Last edited by thatguyusa; 07-10-17 at 08:07 AM.
    07-10-17 07:56 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Ahhh the old argument, everyone does it so it must be fine. It could have the whole market it does not mean it's good or better. Look no further than VHS. A inferior product compared to BetaMax. Google learned the lesson cheap always wins the day.

    I for one am tired or companies fielding software or devices and we become the beta testers. But hey that's the world we live it does not make it right or wrong. I'm just tired of it.
    It's your hypothesis, so the onus is on you to prove it, so to speak.

    I'm just tossing out a metric that doesn't exactly help your case, but I'm not trying to prove anything.
    07-10-17 08:05 AM
  12. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    It's your hypothesis, so the onus is on you to prove it, so to speak.

    I'm just tossing out a metric that doesn't exactly help your case, but I'm not trying to prove anything.
    Really you don't see it? You must be younger than I thought.

    Take any flight, go into any store.

    Buy any electronic product, while some are near perfect. Most get released with major issues.

    There was a time when flying any airline class and you had real service. Stores had service people. Devices did not have heat issues, screens that fall out and alike.

    Let me make my self clear, I do not view Android as bad, just nowhere as good as it should be at this stage of development. The problem is people don't demand better.
    07-10-17 08:16 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Really you don't see it? You must be younger than I thought.

    Take any flight, go into any store.

    Buy any electronic product, while some are near perfect. Most get released with major issues.
    I'm referring to the choice vs pre-installed discussion.
    07-10-17 08:17 AM
  14. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I'm referring to the choice vs pre-installed discussion.
    Ok I miss understood your point. I still think it boils down to I want it free......(apps) and OS.

    Can you see what would happen if you could buy the OS for your phone. I bet all OS systems would be 100 percent better..


    I would like to point out one thing. My company's Tech department is authorized to repair our phones. Blackberry/Apple/TCL. With TCL we have no phones but we have heavy equipment controls. When a friends screen on his new Keyone fell out he called me very upset. For most people 500 dollars is still a large sum of money. We contacted TCL received the go ahead and made the repair. While the people on the phone fromTCL are concerned. The company I feel should either recall the batches involved or extend the warranty for 6 months or so. But silence is never a good idea. Get on TV make a statement calm the markets and blogs.
    Last edited by thatguyusa; 07-10-17 at 08:41 AM.
    07-10-17 08:31 AM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I am not downplaying that TCL has a real problem with some of the K1 screens, it's likely fewer than 30 people who have been affected by the problem, and TCL has taken care of them. There is no danger (like, say, the Note 7 battery issue), and given that the K1 is out of stock, it seems they are already implementing a solution.

    Thus, there is nothing to be gained by making anymore of a statement then they already have.
    07-10-17 02:52 PM
  16. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I am not downplaying that TCL has a real problem with some of the K1 screens, it's likely fewer than 30 people who have been affected by the problem, and TCL has taken care of them. There is no danger (like, say, the Note 7 battery issue), and given that the K1 is out of stock, it seems they are already implementing a solution.

    Thus, there is nothing to be gained by making anymore of a statement then they already have.
    Look you just pop in and drop facts......REALLY...........LOL
    07-11-17 04:49 PM
  17. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    Look you just pop in and drop facts......REALLY...........LOL
    The made up variety you mean? Lol
    07-11-17 05:05 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Apple's a master of innovating short learning curves. Nothing at all wrong with that. Unless you need customization to adapt specific needs... Hence the Android/PC comparisons. A place in the world for both strategies. IMO. Distrusting is not the same as "hate". Ethical integrity is a perfectly rational characteristic to consider when evaluating such intimate communications technology, IMO. In that regard, Apple has done a masterful job of perpetuating its image of integrity, at least. IMO.

    BB10 eventually matured toward an excellent "do all and end all" OS. The shame was that it was pushed "right out of the gate" to run the race of its life before it was even crawling. Had Q10 released with BB10.3.2 and a tool belt, I myself would still be using it, or a descendent. MY 9900 would be a fond but distant memory. How many millions of other legacy users might have also? Enough millions to have possibly "jumpstarted" BB10"s app ecosystem?? We'll never know.

    What I do know is that my brain can handle just about any OS. My hand is more limited. Hardware is far more important to my use case than OS. K1 is certainly in my future for its keyboard but Apple's SE looks most attractive for its relative compactness. IMO. I can foresee carrying both, once this 6 year old 9930 becomes unusable. LOL..
    SE may not be with us much longer and the 7 is very close to the width of a 9930. The ordinary iPhone is not a large phone.

    It is too bad that you can not get the BlackBerry VKB on a Apple. My favourite keyboard is the Colbalt BlackBerry running on a Samsung.

    Having used Android and iOS, I feel that iOS offers an experience that is closer to BBOS- especially on some apps.

    Still if you need a PKB , the KEYone is the only game on town.
    07-13-17 01:33 PM
  19. Slash82's Avatar
    I still think that BlackBerry is the only company on that planet that has such talented people and again, again, again, again fails to deliver like no other!

    -BBOS (until 7.x) beating a dead horse and telling people that apps won't be a thing
    - delaying OS10 almost 2 years
    - OS10 was just half backed (that's why the market never wanted it)
    - OS10 devices after Z10 & Q10 - let's not talk about it.
    - marketing & commitment - I have no words for that
    - now ruining their reputation as (secure) Android device phone "maker" with failing to execute their promises of "monthly security updates"
    - commitment to Priv & Dtek users...

    They have (had) talented people there - but their executives fail...

    So my point here is - it doesn't matter what OS BlackBerry is running...
    07-14-17 01:48 PM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Apple's a master of innovating short learning curves. Nothing at all wrong with that. Unless you need customization to adapt specific needs... Hence the Android/PC comparisons. A place in the world for both strategies. IMO. Distrusting is not the same as "hate". Ethical integrity is a perfectly rational characteristic to consider when evaluating such intimate communications technology, IMO. In that regard, Apple has done a masterful job of perpetuating its image of integrity, at least. IMO.

    BB10 eventually matured toward an excellent "do all and end all" OS. The shame was that it was pushed "right out of the gate" to run the race of its life before it was even crawling. Had Q10 released with BB10.3.2 and a tool belt, I myself would still be using it, or a descendent. MY 9900 would be a fond but distant memory. How many millions of other legacy users might have also? Enough millions to have possibly "jumpstarted" BB10"s app ecosystem?? We'll never know.

    What I do know is that my brain can handle just about any OS. My hand is more limited. Hardware is far more important to my use case than OS. K1 is certainly in my future for its keyboard but Apple's SE looks most attractive for its relative compactness. IMO. I can foresee carrying both, once this 6 year old 9930 becomes unusable. LOL..
    Apple has your back.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...-how-to-2017-6
    07-15-17 12:21 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    I've seen something similar on Android... still gets back to typing precision on smaller VKB. I'm finding the larger D60 VKB can provide almost acceptable precision... imo. Even then, cognitive and eye fatigue become factors when pushing for a long hard day. My profession employs far too many critical one off acronyms and nomenclature to ever type with "reckless abandon" and let "auto-anything" correct. I still can't imagine medical and legal professions tolerating "auto-correct" but, that's their domain, so...

    At least Apple has recognized the value of single handed function...
    07-15-17 11:17 AM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    As someone who has had the pleasure and privilege of using all of the above operating systems i thought I would like to put my two cents in.

    First if you are an Apple hatter/Android or OS 10 please move on. This is not about any one system being better than the other, just the pluses and minuses. Less the screaming and ranting.

    I would like to point out the BlackBerry missed the boat when it did not push OS 10 right out of the gate as the do all and end all. The OS is very Applisc in feel and is very intuitive. That said even being left behind the OS still does most everything thrown at it. Is a testament to the fine engineering that went into it.

    One of the big things you notice when you come from either Apple or BlackBerry is how intuitive Android is not, things that are easy to find are tucked away. Or you must load another program to make it work. While this was acceptable in the earliest versions of the OS it is becoming old. I know people will say you need to live with the system and in time it gets better. Well yes and no, it is a trade off with BlackBerry because when you are used to a clean OS this is a step down. In the end while my daily driver is still my trusty Passport the day is coming when it will just be overwhelmed and when it happens it will be Apple for me, not because I hate Google or anything as stupid as that; just because I want it to work and work well. With relative ease and no need to piggy back other programs to make it work.
    I have to agree with you. I too have used all the OS's, as have many here, and have settled on iOS because of how well it works and also the world class support. It is the closest to BB I feel. I'm using the SE and it competes with the big boys while being easy to carry. I hope they continue to make these types of devices in the future.
    07-15-17 06:45 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Apparently your next SE will be made in India.
    07-15-17 09:47 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    Apparently your next SE will be made in India.
    They just are opening the market more there. It doesn't mean they won't make more for North America (SE2?). Either way, this will last me the next couple years as it will be getting iOS11 and even the new AR software. All for $199.
    07-16-17 07:56 AM

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