07-04-12 04:10 AM
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  1. Foreverup's Avatar
    Sorry actually knew that just forgot to mention it in my post, Thanks Lak611

    But QNX does have majority of the market share for cars though I believe.
    07-03-12 12:51 PM
  2. Foreverup's Avatar
    I don't think you (or Mr. Heins) are thinking about how it will play out. The thing is that for all of those devices/systems to be accepted and adopted, they will HAVE TO also work with Android and iproducts, so being "native QNX" or whatever they will market it as is not going to be any real advantage to the average consumer. They are going to have to work on the other platforms or they will never be implemented. Do you think Master Card/Visa, Municipalities, Red Box, Movie theaters, mass transit stations or any other entity is going to accept a system that only works for RIM but not Android or istuff?
    Yeah but manufactures of those devices will pay to license an embedded OS for those devices. Just means more money for RIM
    07-03-12 12:53 PM
  3. hpjrt's Avatar
    Okay for all of the disgruntled posters, what did you want him to say? Really last week there was all this panic and gnashing of teeth with calls for Thor to come out and SAY something publicly. He has. Did you expect him to reverse what was announced in the earnings call?

    So you are disappointed. We all are. Big deal. Your being unhappy changes nothing. Either move on or wait and see.

    I for one will wait and see. My phone works fine. My PB is great. I'm in a position where it costs me nothing to wait. If you aren't in that happy position then you have some decisions to make.

    I, for one, was glad to see a public response both from Thor and from the VP who was interviewed on Canada AM this morning.
    CairnsRock likes this.
    07-03-12 12:59 PM
  4. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Yeah but manufactures of those devices will pay to license an embedded OS for those devices. Just means more money for RIM
    Its peanuts in the scheme of things and won't save RIM. If that is the best future he can plan for BB10 then it is even worse than imagined. Those OS's are not complicated and will be a commodity if they aren't already. They will want to build around the bigger OS's who can guarantee iCrap and Andriod compatibility.

    The other thing that frustrates me is that RIM seems to have no regard for how the business world view them. Us crackberry adicts aren't the only ones noticing the delays and excuses. Let's take you example. You are building a new parking meter or new credit card processing device. Are you really going to go to your boss and say that your OS is coming from RIM and they promise to deliver it on-time for your new project??? If you survive the laughter and rotten fruit tossed at you, you will and should be fired. They have spent a tremendous amount of goodwill and will pay for that in the long run too.
    07-03-12 01:02 PM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Sorry actually knew that just forgot to mention it in my post, Thanks Lak611

    But QNX does have majority of the market share for cars though I believe.
    I haven't found anything specifically related to cars, but it looks like Wind River is the leader in RTOS and embedded Linux. Wind River Recognized as Global Embedded Leader - Yahoo! Finance
    07-03-12 01:11 PM
  6. Foreverup's Avatar
    Its peanuts in the scheme of things and won't save RIM. If that is the best future he can plan for BB10 then it is even worse than imagined. Those OS's are not complicated and will be a commodity if they aren't already. They will want to build around the bigger OS's who can guarantee iCrap and Andriod compatibility.

    The other thing that frustrates me is that RIM seems to have no regard for how the business world view them. Us crackberry adicts aren't the only ones noticing the delays and excuses. Let's take you example. You are building a new parking meter or new credit card processing device. Are you really going to go to your boss and say that your OS is coming from RIM and they promise to deliver it on-time for your new project??? If you survive the laughter and rotten fruit tossed at you, you will and should be fired. They have spent a tremendous amount of goodwill and will pay for that in the long run too.
    I get the point your trying to make but maybe I wasn't very clear on mine. But your example would have nothing to do with RIM delaying BB10. I doubt the engineer that picked it to run Locomotives was laughed out of an office.

    QNX is already an available embedded OS all they do is sell the baseline kernel architecture. My point was any money RIM can make now and in future off of small "insignificant" with out number cell phones allows them money to work on bigger projects and more ambitious ones.
    07-03-12 01:11 PM
  7. johnenglish's Avatar
    As Steve Jobs used to say "Real artists ship."

    RIM can talk all they want but until they start shipping devices that deliver on everything they promised I will have my doubts.
    07-03-12 01:14 PM
  8. Foreverup's Avatar
    As Steve Jobs used to say "Real artists steal."

    RIM can talk all they want but until they start shipping devices that deliver on everything they promised I will have my doubts.

    fixed your quote

    your welcome
    07-03-12 01:19 PM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    Decided to get rid of this as I've cooled off and realized that we are still paying for the sins of the previous regime. Still not happy about delays and someone needs to tell Thor this is it, deliver or get out of the big chair.
    Last edited by lnichols; 07-06-12 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Cooled off
    guitarplayer likes this.
    07-03-12 01:25 PM
  10. sosumi11's Avatar
    I am the first to admit that RIM has missed on important trends in the smart-phone industry - especially in the consumer domain, focusing on its core value system for successful products and services.
    This is RIM's core problem. RIM still believes that the smartphone industry is the future. The smartphone industry died with the introduction of the iPhone and RIM still doesn't recognize that the smartphone industry is the pocket computer industry today.

    This excerpt from the article BlackBerry vs iPhone, written in May, 2008, summarizes the struggle that RIM will face. And it is just in 2010 that they realize it when they bought QNX.

    There are no signs that RIM has the engineering chops on either side of the ball hardware or software to compete with where the iPhone is now, let alone where its going to be. We know that Apple has an OS that can scale to take advantage of faster (and multi-core) processors, because OS X is doing that already. If a two-years-away 2010 iPhone might be like having a 2003 PowerBook G4 in your pocket, for RIMs sake a 2010 BlackBerry had better be something more than a BlackBerry with a brighter screen.
    Granted RIM has made strides to match the features of the iPhone, but they still don't grasp the bigger picture of where the industry has headed. Even Google's Android was created for the sole purpose of distributing Google search onto a pocket device.

    Microsoft and Apple are the only companies that have the power to deliver scale to the computer industry's next stage. They control 99% of the computers in the world.

    Posting this article is in no way meant to bash RIM, but is meant to illustrate that the smartphone industry was/is just a placeholder industry, in the same way a pocket calculator and typewriter were to a laptop. RIM simply did not see this evolution coming.

    It doesn't matter how easy and dependable a BB was to send emails and make a phone call. Phones and emails are just another app today.
    CairnsRock likes this.
    07-03-12 01:27 PM
  11. johnenglish's Avatar
    fixed your quote

    your welcome
    Actually, he never said that. It's been misattributed to him but was originally from T.S. Elliot. What Jobs did say though was "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

    In any case, has anyone ever read "The Mythical Man-Moth" by Fred Brooks? It's basic premise is that adding manpower to a late project only makes it later.
    07-03-12 01:30 PM
  12. zzbsb's Avatar
    From now on, with RIM, I'll believe it when I see it.
    07-03-12 01:38 PM
  13. Foreverup's Avatar
    From now on, with RIM, I'll believe it when I see it.
    You should of bought a playbook. I was already in that mode. Why i didn't getting excited by the N4BB post saying BB10 was coming in September and why I'm not really that bummed out by the delay.
    Last edited by Foreverup; 07-03-12 at 01:52 PM.
    07-03-12 01:43 PM
  14. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    I think everyone who gets teary-eyed over Thor's (or the marketing dept's) writeup should immediately purchase as many shares of RIMM as they can afford. Take out loans to do it! That'll show you support RIM!

    If you don't put your money where your mouths are, you're not really committed, IMHO.
    07-03-12 01:47 PM
  15. OMGitworks's Avatar
    I get the point your trying to make but maybe I wasn't very clear on mine. But your example would have nothing to do with RIM delaying BB10. I doubt the engineer that picked it to run Locomotives was laughed out of an office.

    QNX is already an available embedded OS all they do is sell the baseline kernel architecture. My point was any money RIM can make now and in future off of small "insignificant" with out number cell phones allows them money to work on bigger projects and more ambitious ones.
    Fair enough. I know QNX is out there in critical applications and probably makes some money. I just don't think RIM bough it to continue the business as is, but as a platform for BB10 and the (in)famous synergies it could bring. So far, give the PB launch (I do like my PB) and BB10 delays haven't been stellar. RIM has/had all this cash, why not pay to get it done on time. That lack or urgency is my true frustration and complaint.
    07-03-12 01:54 PM
  16. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Actually, he never said that. It's been misattributed to him but was originally from T.S. Elliot. What Jobs did say though was "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

    In any case, has anyone ever read "The Mythical Man-Moth" by Fred Brooks? It's basic premise is that adding manpower to a late project only makes it later.
    That is a great read. However its almost 40 years old and he has since acknowledged that it is possible, albeit somewhat difficult, to speed up development by adding more software engineers. Linux is seen as a great counter, real world argument against his theories which were built around development in the 70's for huge systems at IBM. I think his thesis is generally correct in that you certainly get the law of diminishing returns when you add each new engineer, but I do think that adding them helps. RIM should at least have tried, esp with $2B to work with and the future of the company at stake.
    07-03-12 02:03 PM
  17. Snowman888's Avatar
    What else is Thor going to say... the ship is sinking and get out while you can. The only thing we can do as consumers is read between the lines and see if RIMs actions match the CEO's comments.

    As for the people of own RIM stock.. me being one of them... have you ever heard of a stop order?! Stop crying your shares have dwindled, you're responsible for that.
    07-03-12 02:28 PM
  18. cgk's Avatar
    Heins made a classic mistake this morning and needs better media training to stop him being caught out in future - you *never* repeat a negative question in your answer - if you are asked if your company is in a death spiral, your actual answer should not contain the words "death spiral" because that is actually a sneaky way for a reporter to deliver a headline along the lines of "RIM denies it is in a death spiral" which we are now seeing all the media repeating variations of...
    07-03-12 02:30 PM
  19. dandbj13's Avatar
    Heins made a classic mistake this morning and needs better media training to stop him being caught out in future - you *never* repeat a negative question in your answer - if you are asked if your company is in a death spiral, your actual answer should not contain the words "death spiral" because that is actually a sneaky way for a reporter to deliver a headline along the lines of "RIM denies it is in a death spiral" which we are now seeing all the media repeating variations of...
    I would agree if this was just a matter of tactics. But it is more than that, IMO. This is just what he really believes. If you recall when he took over the company, his first words were along the same lines that the company was basically OK and that no big changes were necessary. He reverts back to that original message when the chips are down. Everything is basically fine. I believed him when he said it the first time. I believe him now. That is, I believe that is what he believes. Everything else is just what he thinks he has to say.
    07-03-12 05:36 PM
  20. kill_9's Avatar
    From now on, with RIM, I'll believe it when I see it.
    As is the philosophy of UFO skeptics. Either way you cannot prove the non-existence of something si,ply because you have not seen it. Is Blackberry 10 even a real product at this point or a collection of staged applications running on a glorified emulator?
    07-03-12 06:39 PM
  21. OMGitworks's Avatar
    I would agree if this was just a matter of tactics. But it is more than that, IMO. This is just what he really believes. If you recall when he took over the company, his first words were along the same lines that the company was basically OK and that no big changes were necessary. He reverts back to that original message when the chips are down. Everything is basically fine. I believed him when he said it the first time. I believe him now. That is, I believe that is what he believes. Everything else is just what he thinks he has to say.
    If that is honestly what he believes, then he really needs to go. The status quo for RIM = death.
    07-03-12 07:02 PM
  22. anon(757282)'s Avatar
    The CEO interview gave a clear explanation of where they are going, and the fumdamental difference between a new platform that works across a wide range of systems...versus a new phone OS.

    This is real vision, and implementing at the cutting edge is not easy. So I am encouraged to see this vision, and while I hate delays, I now have a greater understanding of the challenge. I think will come out of this transition as an industry leader again.

    And please ignore the wags with nothing but negative to say. No plan is fast enough. No features are good enough. No one can be trusted except another negative critic. No communication is truthful, or gives enough detail. They spout no hope and voice criticism and sarcasm in response to any positive comments. Each with thousands of these negative posts; dedication.

    RIM has a very solid chance to succeed and thrive. And they appear very motivated to do so.
    07-03-12 10:14 PM
  23. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    I, for one, was glad to see a public response both from Thor and from the VP who was interviewed on Canada AM this morning.
    I would expect comments, but not the long sap stories I have read today. To me it all seems carefully crafted and not completely genuine. The responses read more like something you would pitch to your employees, not to the media--there was no need to stating lofty goals on how they want to change the world or how many neighbors love RIM. These letters should have been sent internally to RIM to motivate the crew, not to the rest of the media.

    I don't like it when CEOs and senior executives feel the need to over-explain their actions. Just doesn't sound professional, but hey, that's my gut feel.
    07-03-12 10:23 PM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Q: What does "putting things" together means ?
    Q: Why did you bought QNX instead of going Androd ?
    Q: What is your ecosystem vision ?

    T. Heins

    BlackBerry 10 will connect users not just to each other, but to the embedded systems that run constantly in the background of everyday life - from parking meters and car computers to credit card machines and ticket counters.


    Hey, Thorsten, thanks.
    Rick Constanzo

    This is not just a handset OS. There's a car component to this. There is an embedded component. This is a platform and we're putting the plumbing in place to connect to cars and OEM. You gotta get it right and it's hugely complex. We'll come out extremely strong next year a with a fully-baked product.


    I guess it's clear enough, now.
    The full monty; nothing else. I LOVE THAT.
    Hey, Rick, thanks.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 07-04-12 at 04:20 AM.
    07-04-12 04:10 AM
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