Things the iPhone can't do this holiday with the family

Originally Posted by TGR1

That's the thing, I didn't see any of the locals using their phones to pay. It was credit cards all the way. Granted I wasn't standing there carefully counting (not going to risk getting booted out as a weirdo by the only place that took my US credit card!) so while a nice feature to have, it doesn't seem to be that important to most phone users. I should also note that Asia has always been very progressive about doing things monetary via phone but the iPhone is very popular in Korea and Japan despite no NFC. This suggests alternatives to NFC are successful, possibly. I should ask my cousin how payment by phone works there.

In one one of the Asia Pacific contries ( Indonesia?) I believe BBM has already been e-commerce enabled for money transfers. May be primarily for consumer for consumer transactions, not sure if it works in a retail environment or not, but it is another alternative to NFC.

Apple is way late to the game for mobile commerce outside of the USA, and will fail if they try to bring to the market a proprietary solution that does not leverage existing global infrastructure standards. Same for Google Wallet. And if the US financial institutions go a different direction, 300 million americans won't be enough to change standards vs. 1 billion plus consumers in the EU, Asia Pacific and other countries that are already well down another path...

Originally Posted by TGR1

Forget iPhone users, it's more of a problem for American credit card users at large. I have not yet found a CC provider willing to provide a chip card. It was a huge pain for me in the Netherlands during a business trip, and the reason why Starbucks got most of my business (one of the very few places that allowed non-chip cards although foo on them for not allowing payment through their app)

Also, could a phone be used in place of CC at all these units? All the places had a slide-in slot for the chip card. I didn't see anyone tap a card or use a phone.

One of the few places in the UK that allow contactless payment is McDonald's and only if you have a CC from BarclayCard.
Tap to pay isn't that widespread in the UK; have yet to see someone paying with their phone.

Originally Posted by TGR1

Forget iPhone users, it's more of a problem for American credit card users at large. I have not yet found a CC provider willing to provide a chip card. It was a huge pain for me in the Netherlands during a business trip, and the reason why Starbucks got most of my business (one of the very few places that allowed non-chip cards although foo on them for not allowing payment through their app)

Also, could a phone be used in place of CC at all these units? All the places had a slide-in slot for the chip card. I didn't see anyone tap a card or use a phone.

Can't say for sure, but generally most chip accepting machines also allow tap to pay. Your problem would be that even if the store accepted NFC payments, your carrier & your bank would also need to allow it. The US is just so far behind when it comes to banking. I remember being in the US in the 90's and having issues because lots of places didn't even have interac. This meant I had to be sure to carry $ around with me wherever I went.



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Originally Posted by BBPandy

Can't say for sure, but generally most chip accepting machines also allow tap to pay. Your problem would be that even if the store accepted NFC payments, your carrier & your bank would also need to allow it. The US is just so far behind when it comes to banking. I remember being in the US in the 90's and having issues because lots of places didn't even have interac. This meant I had to be sure to carry $ around with me wherever I went.



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I was told that some of the issues also involved reluctance to license the tech (hardware? Software?) Don't know if it's true but it may that without a strong consumer demand there isn't pressure for the vendors to cough up such fees. I wonder if that is also why those special SIMs are not common.

It's odd though why the US is so slow to push through chip cards given the insanely high level of credit card fraud.

Originally Posted by bp3dots

Hey now, I never said it was cheap, just that it was possible!

Heh. Yeah, hats off to Apple: they invent proprietary hardware, give it a fancy name, and add a 20% markup for the privilege. :)

Gotta respect it, even if I don't like it.

Originally Posted by FFR

No, however blackberry does not offer an Hdmi to micro Hdmi adapter/cable either.

Your right there BlackBerry doesn't but it's a standard hdmi connection. None of the oh, sorry you have to buy a cable that costs an additional 79.99 from apple. BlackBerry devices are actually serviced when they break down. But apple just chucks defective devices in the trash. And yet were stuck paying the eco recycle fees on all these products (electronics in general). It should be the manufactors paying this. There the ones filling up the landfills with their cheap junk!

IROC-Z10 But Mostly She Rocks Me!

Originally Posted by Sheaner19

Your right there BlackBerry doesn't but it's a standard hdmi connection. None of the oh, sorry you have to buy a cable that costs an additional 79.99 from apple. BlackBerry devices are actually serviced when they break down. But apple just chucks defective devices in the trash. And yet were stuck paying the eco recycle fees on all these products (electronics in general). It should be the manufactors paying this. There the ones filling up the landfills with their cheap junk!

IROC-Z10 But Mostly She Rocks Me!

Let me see if I understand: if my BlackBerry breaks down it gets shipped off somewhere to be repaired, and I have to do without it for days or weeks while it's gone, but if my iPhone breaks down, I take it to the Apple Store and they give me a brand new one, and you're saying Apple's the one that's not doing it right?

Originally Posted by TGR1

I was told that some of the issues also involved reluctance to license the tech (hardware? Software?) Don't know if it's true but it may that without a strong consumer demand there isn't pressure for the vendors to cough up such fees. I wonder if that is also why those special SIMs are not common.

It's odd though why the US is so slow to push through chip cards given the insanely high level of credit card fraud.

Your talking about the chip machines? In Canada they were cheaper then the old magnetic strip machines because the banks wanted all the vendors to switch ASAP. Less bank fraud = less $ that they have to pay out. So the banks were giving all sorts of incentives for vendors to upgrade

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Originally Posted by gogurt48

Let me see if I understand: if my BlackBerry breaks down it gets shipped off somewhere to be repaired, and I have to do without it for days or weeks while it's gone, but if my iPhone breaks down, I take it to the Apple Store and they give me a brand new one, and you're saying Apple's the one that's not doing it right?

Depends on your environmental outlook.

Apple chucks the old iPhone in the trash and gives you a new one. BlackBerry takes it in for repair.

So it becomes a question of priorities. Would you rather wait for your device to be repaired or immediately get a replacement? :)

Originally Posted by Gnomesane

Apple chucks the old iPhone in the trash and gives you a new one.

Is there proof of this? It seems bizarre in a world where even badly damaged Apple devices are worth something. Are you sure they don't repair the damaged device and sell it as refurbished/used or sell/strip the damaged units?

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Originally Posted by Gnomesane

Depends on your environmental outlook.

Apple chucks the old iPhone in the trash and gives you a new one. BlackBerry takes it in for repair.

Actually, I think Apple recycles them.

Apple and the Environment

Originally Posted by Gnomesane

So it becomes a question of priorities. Would you rather wait for your device to be repaired or immediately get a replacement? :)

I'd much rather immediately get a replacement.

Originally Posted by gogurt48

Actually, I think Apple recycles them.

Apple and the Environment

Nice link.

What's the name of the company that recycles the iPhones?

I clicked on the links and they sent me to non descriptive happy Apple web pages. Not to be a stick in the mud, but I'd prefer more detail.

Originally Posted by gogurt48

I'd much rather immediately get a replacement.

I salute your honesty. :)

Originally Posted by mornhavon

Is there proof of this? It seems bizarre in a world where even badly damaged Apple devices are worth something. Are you sure they don't repair the damaged device and sell it as refurbished/used or sell/strip the damaged units?

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No proof. I'm more curious of proof that Apple recycles.

Originally Posted by Gnomesane

Nice link.

What's the name of the company that recycles the iPhones?

According to Apple's FAQ page, a company called "PowerON Services" administers their recycling program, and a company called "Sims Recycling Solutions" actually does the recycling.

Interestingly, if you have an old computer you want to get rid of, even if it's not an Apple computer, Apple will recycle it for you at no charge. They'll even pay the shipping for you to send it to them.

Originally Posted by jrohland

Not many carriers are providing secure payment SIMs (I believe Rogers does) and none of the USA carriers do. The CC issuing institution has to provide software that works on your phone..

Sprint, AT&T and Verizon do offer these SIMs. They're just somewhat hard to get still because the retail phone shop people don't seem to know anything about them. You can get them by calling, though.

They are required for Isis and Google Wallet for the reasons you said (the secure element).


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Originally Posted by TGR1

Forget iPhone users, it's more of a problem for American credit card users at large. I have not yet found a CC provider willing to provide a chip card.

If you're looking for a US issuer that does chips, try Chase. They sent me a chip card at least a year ago (maybe two?) without me even having to ask for it.


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Originally Posted by gogurt48

According to Apple's FAQ page, a company called "PowerON Services" administers their recycling program, and a company called "Sims Recycling Solutions" actually does the recycling.

PowerON Services, Inc.

Global Leaders in IT and Electronics Reuse and Recycling | Sims Recycling Global

Originally Posted by gogurt48

According to Apple's FAQ page, a company called "PowerON Services" administers their recycling program, and a company called "Sims Recycling Solutions" actually does the recycling.

Interestingly, if you have an old computer you want to get rid of, even if it's not an Apple computer, Apple will recycle it for you at no charge. They'll even pay the shipping for you to send it to them.

Thanks. I actually have an old computer that I could recycle!

Maybe we should make this a public venture, and see how it plays out?

I'm game. I personally am curious either way. You? We could start a thread about it. I'm totally in! :)

Originally Posted by Gnomesane

Thanks. I actually have an old computer that I could recycle!

Maybe we should make this a public venture, and see how it plays out?

I'm game. I personally am curious either way. You? We could start a thread about it. I'm totally in! :)

That's a great idea!

Originally Posted by gogurt48

Let me see if I understand: if my BlackBerry breaks down it gets shipped off somewhere to be repaired, and I have to do without it for days or weeks while it's gone, but if my iPhone breaks down, I take it to the Apple Store and they give me a brand new one, and you're saying Apple's the one that's not doing it right?

Not exactly. The "brand new" phone you get in exchange is a phone that broke down for another guy weeks ago and got refurbished. The broken down iPhone you bring to the Apple store to get it exchanged also gets repaired and refurbished and 4 weeks later another guy will get it as "brand new" in exchange for his broken iPhone.

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Originally Posted by gogurt48

According to Apple's FAQ page, a company called "PowerON Services" administers their recycling program, and a company called "Sims Recycling Solutions" actually does the recycling.

Interestingly, if you have an old computer you want to get rid of, even if it's not an Apple computer, Apple will recycle it for you at no charge. They'll even pay the shipping for you to send it to them.

What if I told you that things we call "trash" are a real, sustainable and worthwhile business for companies? It just depends on scale, processing, infrastructure and connections. It's just about resources. You'rd happy to get rid of the 'trash', Apple makes money with it. This isn't 'service' by any means.

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Originally Posted by --TommesJay--

What if I told you that things we call "trash" are a real, sustainable and worthwhile business for companies? It just depends on scale, processing, infrastructure and connections. It's just about resources. You'rd happy to get rid of the 'trash', Apple makes money with it. This isn't 'service' by any means.

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Ridicolous the ends people go to discredit something.

ser�vice (s�rvs)
n.
1.
a. Employment in duties or work for another, as for a government: has been in the company's service for 15 years.
b. A government branch or department and its employees: the diplomatic service.
2.
a. The armed forces of a nation: joined the service right after college.
b. A branch of the armed forces of a nation.
3. The performance of work or duties for a superior or as a servant: found the butler's service to be excellent.
4.
a. Work done for others as an occupation or business: has done service for us as a consultant.
b. An act or a variety of work done for others, especially for pay: offers a superior service to that of his competitors; provides full catering services.
5. A department or branch of a hospital staff that provides specified patient care: the anesthesiology service.
6. Installation, maintenance, or repairs provided or guaranteed by a dealer or manufacturer: a dealer with full parts and service.
7. A facility providing the public with the use of something, such as water or transportation.
8.
a. Assistance; help: was of great service to him during his illness.
b. An act of assistance or benefit; a favor: My friend did me a service in fixing the door.

Pick one that applies.

Originally Posted by sinsin07

Ridicolous the ends people go to discredit something.

ser�vice (s�rvs)
n.
1.
a. Employment in duties or work for another, as for a government: has been in the company's service for 15 years.
b. A government branch or department and its employees: the diplomatic service.
2.
a. The armed forces of a nation: joined the service right after college.
b. A branch of the armed forces of a nation.
3. The performance of work or duties for a superior or as a servant: found the butler's service to be excellent.
4.
a. Work done for others as an occupation or business: has done service for us as a consultant.
b. An act or a variety of work done for others, especially for pay: offers a superior service to that of his competitors; provides full catering services.
5. A department or branch of a hospital staff that provides specified patient care: the anesthesiology service.
6. Installation, maintenance, or repairs provided or guaranteed by a dealer or manufacturer: a dealer with full parts and service.
7. A facility providing the public with the use of something, such as water or transportation.
8.
a. Assistance; help: was of great service to him during his illness.
b. An act of assistance or benefit; a favor: My friend did me a service in fixing the door.

Pick one that applies.

No reason to be picky on this one. What I meant to say was that Apple taking your electronic trash for free isn't Apple just being gentle to customers (as gogurt48 made it sound), but it's Apple making money out of it. In my local home town here in Germany (30,000 citizens) we have a little waste disposal business. People can get rid of their special and bulky waste there for a few bucks, for example an old bedframe, a TV, computers and so on.

The guy is running this business beside his farm. He drives a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder, because he found his Porsche 911 was too slow.

Originally Posted by --TommesJay--

Not exactly. The "brand new" phone you get in exchange is a phone that broke down for another guy weeks ago and got refurbished. The broken down iPhone you bring to the Apple store to get it exchanged also gets repaired and refurbished and 4 weeks later another guy will get it as "brand new" in exchange for his broken iPhone.

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It's still a better method than Blackberry has.

Originally Posted by donnation

It's still a better method than Blackberry has.

Of course it is. I really find it genius even.