03-10-14 08:52 PM
130 12345 ...
tools
  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I use each of the main four, and I agree with PP; I don't necessarily buy into "better" overall as much as "different." I can probably discuss why one platform might appear to be a better fit for more people, but each has lovable aspects.

    BB10 has great navigation. There are some rough edges with regards to the overall product that are specific to my needs, but I'm picky, and I really concede the need to make concessions on each platform.
    pantlesspenguin and richardat like this.
    03-08-14 10:56 AM
  2. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    It's not that I'm new to Android as a system, I have a 2013 Nexus 7 running Android 4.4 and owned an Xperia T. Sure you could "abuse" the Android taskswitcher to somehow resemble the BB10 experience, but that doesn't really work, the user experience is still not the same. One part of this is the fact that in most Android launchers like the stock Vanilla UI the taskswitcher is a one column vertical list. Second part is that it gets way more cluttered than BB10, as any communications app as well as the settings [edit: the settings in BB10 also show up in the multitasking pane] will show up there. Third thing is, when in the taskswitcher on Android you can't swipe left to access something like the HUB and you can't swipe right from there to access your whole app drawer. Fourth part is that accessing the multitasking pane via an upswipe is far easier and convenient one handed (at least for my taste) than how it's solved in most Android phones. It feels faster and more natural.
    First part: Both the Android task switcher and BB10 show 4 apps per screen, with the option to see more when you scroll. BB10 shows as many as 8 and Android can show many more (however, I keep mine tidy anyway and rarely have more than 8 in there).

    Second part: I actually don't mind having my communication apps in that list so I can get to them quickly. Also, some communication apps also show as active frames on BB10, like BBM and WhatsApp. In fact I typically keep BBM up as an active frame when on BB10. Both methods can get cluttered quickly depending on how many apps you're entering and exiting, and both require the same two motions (a tap and swipe) only in reversed order to close out of them.

    Third part: You bring up very good points, which are quite true.

    Fourth part: I'm kind of confused about this, since on both it's a gesture from the bottom (swipe versus tap/long press, depending on the device). Granted, on BB10 you can swipe from anywhere on the bottom and on Android you are at the mercy of button placement. I'm fortunate enough to have a device where I can configure button placement so I can put each one in an order that's easy for my hands to access, but I know that's not always the case.

    Which brings up what is probably my greatest annoyance on Android. In the past all Android devices were pretty much the same in terms of functionality. Now they completely run the gamut, and switching devices can get very frustrating. It's hard to say "Android can/can't do_______" because now it depends on the device! As an example, there was a recent thread about how Android handles email attachments. It was said that you can't attach a file to an email reply. At the time my Xperia Z couldn't do that, but when I got my LG G2 I found that I could. On the flip side I liked how on my Xperia Z I could access the task switcher with a tap, but on my G2 it's a long press on the home button. It's a minor annoyance, but still relevant...because on the new G2 Pro (or whatever it's called) there's the option to put the multitasking button on the button dock! So there's an example of different functionalities by the same manufacturer.

    Anyway, I'm rambling. Too much coffee.
    03-08-14 12:51 PM
  3. Oscar_E's Avatar
    OK, what you have to do with your friend is make a productivity comparison such as.

    Email : how you receive, read, reply, compose, etc.

    Keyboard: typing speed, invoking characters, deleting, word prediction and auto correct, selecting text, etc.

    Notifications: how they arrive, how do you handle incoming notifications, how you reply,etc.

    Browser: open diferentes type of websites, compare speed, UI, open a flash base site, do they support flash player? Smoothness.

    Apps: which are available, how they perform, etc.

    Camera : camera app, camera sensor etc.

    Radio: how do they handle calling and signal etc.

    I suggest for you to fully understand and operate BlackBerry OS 10.2.1 so you can make a fair comparison.

    Cheers!

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-14 01:24 PM
  4. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    First part: Both the Android task switcher and BB10 show 4 apps per screen, with the option to see more when you scroll. BB10 shows as many as 8 and Android can show many more (however, I keep mine tidy anyway and rarely have more than 8 in there).

    Second part: I actually don't mind having my communication apps in that list so I can get to them quickly. Also, some communication apps also show as active frames on BB10, like BBM and WhatsApp. In fact I typically keep BBM up as an active frame when on BB10. Both methods can get cluttered quickly depending on how many apps you're entering and exiting, and both require the same two motions (a tap and swipe) only in reversed order to close out of them.

    Third part: You bring up very good points, which are quite true.

    Fourth part: I'm kind of confused about this, since on both it's a gesture from the bottom (swipe versus tap/long press, depending on the device). Granted, on BB10 you can swipe from anywhere on the bottom and on Android you are at the mercy of button placement. I'm fortunate enough to have a device where I can configure button placement so I can put each one in an order that's easy for my hands to access, but I know that's not always the case.

    Which brings up what is probably my greatest annoyance on Android. In the past all Android devices were pretty much the same in terms of functionality. Now they completely run the gamut, and switching devices can get very frustrating. It's hard to say "Android can/can't do_______" because now it depends on the device! As an example, there was a recent thread about how Android handles email attachments. It was said that you can't attach a file to an email reply. At the time my Xperia Z couldn't do that, but when I got my LG G2 I found that I could. On the flip side I liked how on my Xperia Z I could access the task switcher with a tap, but on my G2 it's a long press on the home button. It's a minor annoyance, but still relevant...because on the new G2 Pro (or whatever it's called) there's the option to put the multitasking button on the button dock! So there's an example of different functionalities by the same manufacturer.

    Anyway, I'm rambling. Too much coffee.
    To the second part: In fact I barely ever have leave Active Frames open and I never have BBM or WhatsApp open, because usually I have all relevant chats sitting in the HUB. And even of I open a new chat, I usually use the compose option right from the HUB. Concerning the steps/motions to perform these tasks, let's say I need to use an app. I open it, use it and as soon as I'm done, I perform the upswipe and within the same thumb-motion I hit the little X to close the frame. It feels like one step. All one handed or course. Which is why I feel BB10 to be so fast.
    03-08-14 01:41 PM
  5. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    To the second part: In fact I barely ever have leave Active Frames open and I never have BBM or WhatsApp open, because usually I have all relevant chats sitting in the HUB. And even of I open a new chat, I usually use the compose option right from the HUB. Concerning the steps/motions to perform these tasks, let's say I need to use an app. I open it, use it and as soon as I'm done, I perform the upswipe and within the same thumb-motion I hit the little X to close the frame. It feels like one step. All one handed or course. Which is why I feel BB10 to be so fast.
    Yep, and it's the exact same two movements on Android only reversed. Say after I post this I want to close my browser. I press the multitasking button and swipe Chrome away. So it's press, swipe instead of swipe, press.

    ETA: If you want to get nitpickingly technical, if you want to close your most recently used app, your thumb/finger has less distance to travel when closing an app on Android since your most recent app appears at the bottom, and your most recent app on BB10 appears at the top left (unless that's changed since I've used BB10). Again though, that's being very nitpicking and isn't even that big of a deal.
    Last edited by pantlesspenguin; 03-08-14 at 02:44 PM.
    03-08-14 02:18 PM
  6. wincyUt's Avatar
    OK, what you have to do with your friend is make a productivity comparison such as.

    Email : how you receive, read, reply, compose, etc.

    Keyboard: typing speed, invoking characters, deleting, word prediction and auto correct, selecting text, etc.

    Notifications: how they arrive, how do you handle incoming notifications, how you reply,etc.

    Browser: open diferentes type of websites, compare speed, UI, open a flash base site, do they support flash player? Smoothness.

    Apps: which are available, how they perform, etc.

    Camera : camera app, camera sensor etc.

    Radio: how do they handle calling and signal etc.

    I suggest for you to fully understand and operate BlackBerry OS 10.2.1 so you can make a fair comparison.

    Cheers!

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks for your suggestions. But if you read or follow the dialogue between "--TommesJay--" and "Pantlesspenguin" you will understand that trying to explain to my "friend" is not as cut and dry.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-08-14 02:37 PM
  7. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Yep, and it's the exact same two movements on Android only reversed. Say after I post this I want to close my browser. I press the multitasking button and swipe Chrome away. So it's press, swipe instead of swipe, press.

    ETA: If you want to get nitpickingly technical, if you want to close your most recently used app, your thumb/finger has less distance to travel when closing an app on Android since your most recent app appears at the bottom, and your most recent app on BB10 appears at the top left (unless that's changed since I've used BB10). Again though, that's being very nitpicking and isn't even that big of a deal.
    Well at least when I had my Xperia T that was a big deal :-) Now you may ask "why?". Simply because when I held the Xperia T with my right hand, it was hard to access the multitasking button which was sitting in the bottom right corner. I had to rebalance the phone in my hand to avoid the risk of dropping it. And performing the swipe-to-close gesture within the multitasking pane was the exact same pain :-)

    Problem of this is: you need the individual Android manufacture to do soooooo much right with both hardware and software to get to the same experience a BB10 device delivers. So let's take an LG G2 Pro. That phone may solve that certain problem, but it will very well have other issues concerning my "experience taste". For example it's too big so that I can't conveniently reach the notification center anymore when using the phone with one hand :-)....
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-08-14 03:10 PM
  8. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Well at least when I had my Xperia T that was a big deal :-) Now you may ask "why?". Simply because when I held the Xperia T with my right hand, it was hard to access the multitasking button which was sitting in the bottom right corner. I had to rebalance the phone in my hand to avoid the risk of dropping it. And performing the swipe-to-close gesture within the multitasking pane was the exact same pain :-)

    Problem of this is: you need the individual Android manufacture to do soooooo much right with both hardware and software to get to the same experience a BB10 device delivers. So let's take an LG G2 Pro. That phone may solve that certain problem, but it will very well have other issues concerning my "experience taste". For example it's too big so that I can't conveniently reach the notification center anymore when using the phone with one hand :-)....
    Yes!! Exactly. On my G2 it's a long press on the home button and I have mine configured from left to right: back, home, menu, memo shortcut. So, when I exit apps with my phone in my right hand it is indeed different from someone doing the same thing in the same hand with a device with the multitasking button on the far right.

    It just goes to show that between manufacturer differences and personal preferences (including our differing preferences when using active frames on BB10) it really does come down to finding the best tool for one's own individual needs. One can hardly say that someone else's own needs/preferences are wrong, after all!
    03-08-14 04:09 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    This article is sort of on point .

    This is BlackBerry's four-pillar device strategy | CrackBerry.com


    “One of the challenges for BlackBerry is how you commercialize productivity features that are core to the usage of these BlackBerry users around the world, but very difficult messages to shout across. "
    03-08-14 04:33 PM
  10. Sally Mack's Avatar
    Someone told me yesterday that "BlackBerry Experience" is just a figment of our imaginations because all smartphones are basically the same, especially these days. He basically said all phones can multitask, have gestures, productivity capabilities and numerous other similar features.
    This really got me thinking, does he really have a point?
    Your friend either has no clue, or can't be bothered to pay attention to detail. Either way he's off. Using an ios device vs bb10 vs android (or even an HTC vs samsung) offers a differentiated experience. The core features (such as multitasking, or gestures) are there as prerequisites, but how all of these interact, and the actions one must take to achieve their desired goal are different.

    Personally, most often within 2 mins of touching a galaxy device I find myself frustrated and bored at the same time.
    marknick likes this.
    03-08-14 04:41 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The Android or iOS experience is like driving a hired (rented) car. You know how to use it and learn all you need after a short time. Using a BlackBerry is like owning your own car. It becomes part of you.
    LOL.
    richardat and jakie55 like this.
    03-08-14 06:22 PM
  12. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    The Android or iOS experience is like driving a hired (rented) car. You know how to use it and learn all you need after a short time. Using a BlackBerry is like owning your own car. It becomes part of you.
    This isn't creepy at all.
    richardat likes this.
    03-08-14 06:26 PM
  13. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    The Android or iOS experience is like driving a hired (rented) car. You know how to use it and learn all you need after a short time. Using a BlackBerry is like owning your own car. It becomes part of you.
    Heh, this probably isn't the best analogy. I know 4 people who have bought new cars after renting a different model and seeing what they were missing out on.
    richardat likes this.
    03-08-14 06:40 PM
  14. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Heh, this probably isn't the best analogy. I know 4 people who have bought new cars after renting a different model and seeing what they were missing out on.
    Good point, Plus lots of people owned Saabs, Plymouths, Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs, but none of those are options anymore after those companies disappeared.
    03-08-14 06:46 PM
  15. SmellWhole's Avatar
    To the second part: In fact I barely ever have leave Active Frames open and I never have BBM or WhatsApp open, because usually I have all relevant chats sitting in the HUB. And even of I open a new chat, I usually use the compose option right from the HUB. Concerning the steps/motions to perform these tasks, let's say I need to use an app. I open it, use it and as soon as I'm done, I perform the upswipe and within the same thumb-motion I hit the little X to close the frame. It feels like one step. All one handed or course. Which is why I feel BB10 to be so fast.
    With BB10, multitasking isn't just a convenience option that sits in a nirvana between opened apps. Multitasking in BB10 is your homescreen and the center of the OS.And it's exactly why I don't understand Active Frames as widgets and why I don't want to pin them. Going home on BB10 shows me exactly what I'm doing right now and what's on my "desk".
    And this is really the experience I enjoy on BBOS also. I operate out of Messages which is pegged to my right convenience key. No matter what I happen to be doing, when a notification sounds, vibrates, or blinks, with a click of the convenience key, there's the message (as fast as a swipe), be it an email, BBM, text, or YIM/GoogleTalk: in an instant. I can even compose any of these from Messages ("C" for compose or menu/BlackBerry key>"compose other" for any of the others). Then I long press my BlackBerry/menu key to invoke the app switcher and scroll over to whatever it was I was doing before the notification came in.

    As for opening stuff, leaving it open versus closing it or whatever, it's not even really a concern on BBOS. I know I don't have to open or close BBM, because it's always open. Same with stuff like Yahoo Messenger and Google Talk; once I open it, it pretty much stays open without me having to even be aware of it; I have no icons on my home screen, because they're all "minimized." Sure I can scroll to BBM or these other messengers with the app switcher, but I can also open a new chat on any of them from within Messages or just by typing the contact's name into Universal Search if I happen to be on the home screen. What I love is I can leave the BBOS BlackBerry on any screen -- it makes no difference how I leave it -- and pretty much get to wherever I need to go a bunch of different ways, whichever way is most convenient/logical in any given moment. It seems BB10 is pretty much the same. If I was on a Q10, I'd probably operate like you from the hub with no need to open or close BBM, and I'd probably leave stuff I need to leave in Active Frames like Skype (unless that's already gone headless, too).

    (^All of this is for me is a huge part of the "BlackBerry Experience.")
    03-08-14 07:33 PM
  16. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    I think the hub plays a huge role in the "blackberry" experience.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    03-08-14 08:26 PM
  17. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    The "BlackBerry experience" for me is the tight integration and reliability of Voice, Email, Text, BBM, Calendar, and Contacts. This is something that is somewhat fragmented in the "Android experience".
    03-08-14 08:54 PM
  18. wincyUt's Avatar
    This article is sort of on point .

    This is BlackBerry's four-pillar device strategy | CrackBerry.com


    “One of the challenges for BlackBerry is how you commercialize productivity features that are core to the usage of these BlackBerry users around the world, but very difficult messages to shout across. "
    The article only glosses over what "BlackBerry experiences" are and your last paragraph in quotes is not very encouraging either. BlackBerry has been around for sometime, so one would expect that they should be articulating what the BlackBerry experiences are in very clear and concise manner to the public at large. In other words BlackBerry should be effectively marketing what makes its phones/devices uniquely different from the competition.
    03-08-14 09:37 PM
  19. aha's Avatar
    The correct answer to the question in the title is: YES!
    03-08-14 09:44 PM
  20. beantownwindsorite's Avatar
    The experience is different from ios and android. It's unique enough to be called another experience

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-14 09:59 PM
  21. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    ETA: If you want to get nitpickingly technical, if you want to close your most recently used app, your thumb/finger has less distance to travel when closing an app on Android since your most recent app appears at the bottom, and your most recent app on BB10 appears at the top left (unless that's changed since I've used BB10). Again though, that's being very nitpicking and isn't even that big of a deal.
    You might have just brought up an idea of a nice little customization feature of having the ability to change the order of Active Frames. It's more likely I will close or re-open the most recent app so it makes sense for that frame to be close to the bottom of the screen.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-08-14 10:02 PM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The article only glosses over what "BlackBerry experiences" are and your last paragraph in quotes is not very encouraging either. BlackBerry has been around for sometime, so one would expect that they should be articulating what the BlackBerry experiences are in very clear and concise manner to the public at large. In other words BlackBerry should be effectively marketing what makes its phones/devices uniquely different from the competition.
    Yes that is the essential problem. Most of the advantages of BB10 are not so exciting that the OS sells itself. I look forward to the Q20 as such a device and OS.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    03-08-14 10:26 PM
  23. sudisudi123's Avatar
    BlackBerry experience is nothing but expectations from limitations, generated from a user friendly experience.

    Posted via Writer's BlackBerry, Q10
    03-09-14 01:05 AM
  24. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    This article is sort of on point .

    This is BlackBerry's four-pillar device strategy | CrackBerry.com


    "��One of the challenges for BlackBerry is how you commercialize productivity features... "
    That bold quote really made me sort of angry. "Commercializing productivity" didn't work for BlackBerry the last 5 years but they still try. Considering market segmentation it makes sense from a professional standpoint, but well, I don't think this will ever pan out. It's a niche so tiny that even most people you would count to this target group don't care about a BlackBerry experience as long as they don't have a fancy device and certain apps.
    03-09-14 03:00 AM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    On recent history, the four device plan is "phone one goes in that landfill, phone two goes over there in that landfill..."
    03-09-14 05:41 AM
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