1. Sulaco757's Avatar
    Many articles like this with the release of the Samsung S6. This NY Times author suggests that Samsung needs a clean operating system to set itself apart from the sea of Android. This is theoretically the only way Samsung can justify higher premium costs and compete with both Android cheap phones and Apple's premium controlled system.

    Perhaps Sammy has more to gain from BlackBerry and BB10 than we think? I've felt ever since using the BB10 user interface that it's premium software product. Granted I started at 10.2 and wasn't there with the launch of BlackBerry 10. But it's been by far my favorite stock mobile OS.

    I've used Apple, great product but you are locked into being their iSlave. Hungry for the upgrade every 18 months for all the wrong reasons.

    Android, as the NY Times points out is fragmented and bloated. Amazon tried a reskin but it feels castrated. They aren't the only ones.

    Haven't used Windows phone but it would be an option if BlackBerry disappeared.

    Maybe Samsung can hold their own with BlackBerry suites installed and preloaded rather than all the other bloatware? Especially on the KNOX product line.

    http://nyti.ms/1MAd4qs

    With Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge, Samsung Tries to Regain Its Footing

    Farhad Manjoo

    STATE OF THE ART

    Samsungs internal code name for its latest top-of-the-line smartphones, the Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge, is Project Zero, signaling what Samsung calls a return to fundamentals.

    The code name also suggests that Samsung finally seems to understand the many criticisms that have long been leveled at its phones: the plastic hardware looked cheap, the most promoted features were mostly useless and the software was too complicated.

    Samsung, according to Samsung, has realized the errors of it ways.

    The realization was born out of necessity. Samsungs market share and profits in the smartphone business have plummeted over the last year. The company, which is based in South Korea, is in the unenviable position of getting squeezed from the bottom by the affordable phones made by Chinese upstarts like Xiaomi and at the top by Apples powerhouse line of iPhones.

    The elegant new Galaxy phones, which went on sale in the United States last week, are aiming to pull Samsung out of that pickle. But while the phones are magnificent to look at, they are most likely not quite enough to fix what ails the company.

    Despite improved hardware, the S6 and S6 Edge still lack compelling software.

    Unlike Apple, Samsung has never managed to create a built-in suite of software and services to keep people hooked to its own phones. And there are few obvious ways for Samsung to address this glaring flaw.

    You can argue that theyre in phase one of fixing their software, which is getting rid of a lot of the junk, saidJan Dawson, an independent technology analyst whoanticipated Samsungs recent troubles. But we havent really seen phase two, which would be building its own stuff. We havent really seen much of that so far.

    The question of what Samsung can do to differentiate its phones is urgent. Samsung became the most popular smartphone maker in the world by producing alternatives to the iPhone at attractive prices, and byoutspending all of its rivals on marketing. More than any other company, Samsung developed phones with big screens, a surprising hit with consumers.

    But last year, Apple produced its own big phones. They were also a hit, and Samsungs spiral accelerated.

    The holidays were particularly brutal. Samsungs smartphone sales in the last quarter of 2014 declined from the year before, while the overall market grew, according to the research firm Gartner. By some estimates Apple claimedmore than 90 percent of the profitin the smartphone industry during the holidays.

    Samsung is still the largest smartphone maker in the world, but its share fell from about 31 percent to less than 25 percent between 2013 and 2014,Gartner reported. And in China, widely considered the big growth market for phones, Samsung was ranked fifth behind Xiaomi, Apple, Huawei and Lenovo during the last quarter,according to the research firm IDC.

    The new S6 and S6 Edge which are nearly identical to one another except that the Edges screen curves intriguingly, though mostly uselessly, on its left and right side are at least an answer to critics who say Samsungs devices look cheap.

    The S6 phones are made out of aluminum and glass rather than the plastic in Samsungs older phones. Both the S6 and S6 Edge strongly resemble Apples iPhone. The S6 in particular looks like Apples brother from another mother. Samsung has also co-opted many of the design ideas for which its fans have long criticized Apple. The new Galaxys no longer offer a removable battery, for example, or a slot for add-on storage cards, and unlike the Galaxy S5, the S6es arent waterproof.

    Samsung goes far in checking off every other hardware box: The S6 and S6 Edge are blazingly fast, their cameras are excellent, their fingerprint sensors work very well, and with an add-on charging pad they can be recharged wirelessly.

    But if the new phones are beautiful and functional, they are still something of a pain to use. The S6 and S6 Edge run Samsungs modified version of Googles Android operating system. Despite Samsungs engineers efforts to clean up the software, the phones interface is a hodgepodge of odd design decisions and overly complicated functions.

    The situation is made worse by the many companies competing for space on your phone. Open a new Galaxy and youll find a host of duplicative apps preloaded by Samsung, Google, your carrier and even Microsoft, an ostensible competitor of both Samsung and Google. The crush of apps would be funny if it werent so annoying. Why does a brand-new phone have two web browsers, two email apps, two app stores, a handful of music and video services and four different messaging apps?

    The new phones also do little to help Samsung compete with lower-priced alternatives in Asia.

    In the international market for phones, Samsungs Galaxys are relatively expensive. They sell for about the same price as Apples latest devices, $199 and up with a two-year contract, or more than $650 without a contract. But powerful phones made by low-priced Chinese sellers, like theOnePlus One,often sell for less than half the price of high-end Samsung and Apple devices.

    If you pay the premium price to Apple, you get a phone with a well-designed operating system, no overlapping preloaded apps, and a host of services that often work very well, like iMessage, Apple Pay and expanding compatibilities with Apples personal computers and devices like the Apple TV and, soon, the Apple Watch. You can criticize Applessticky ecosystemas a form of consumer lock-in, but Apple sure has built a luxurious prison, and customers are willing to pay extra for it.

    If you pay that premium to Samsung, you dont get a whole lot more than you can get on, say, a phone made by Xiaomi, OnePlus or any of a dozen smaller players.

    Samsung appears to understand the dilemma. Minhyouk Lee, the head of Samsungs mobile design team, said in an email that the companys new user experience flow is simpler and easier, with features and settings that are displayed in a more natural and intuitive way. Samsung has also been working on better services like Samsung Pay, a wireless payment service that will allow you to use your new Galaxy phones to pay for items at a wide range of stores more stores than can accept Apple Pay. But youll have to wait until this summer to use it, when it goes online in a software update.

    Still, Samsungs long history of subpar software might not inspire droves of customers to buy into its world. Whats more, since Samsungs phones are based on Googles operating system, customers are better off buying into that companys services because theyre usually better designed and will work on most other Android phones.

    The reality is that Samsung doesnt have anything thats better than Googles services in most categories, so from the consumers perspective its not clear that theres any benefit for Samsung to make its own stuff, Mr. Dawson said.

    Hence the catastrophic question for Samsung: If lots of other, cheaper, almost-as-good phones run Android, why pay extra for a Samsung?

    Email: farhad.manjoo@nytimes.com; Twitter:@fmanjoo

    With Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge, Samsung Tries to Regain Its Footing - NYTimes.com
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/02..._r=0&referrer=

     Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 
    04-02-15 08:15 PM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The one glitch in your extended theory: why would Samsung leave Android for a runtime-laden BB10?

    Samsung won't leave Android in one fell swoop. It would be gradual. BB10 does not offer that opportunity.

    I have no doubt Samsung would leave Android if it could. Problem is is that Samsung needs Android's goodies, and BB10 doesn't have a good track record.
    04-02-15 08:22 PM
  3. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    The one glitch in your extended theory: why would Samsung leave Android for a runtime-laden BB10?

    Samsung won't leave Android in one fell swoop. It would be gradual. BB10 does not offer that opportunity.

    I have no doubt Samsung would leave Android if it could. Problem is is that Samsung needs Android's goodies, and BB10 doesn't have a good track record.
    Well considering that BB10 already runs Android apps and also considering that Samsung sells almost three times as many phones as ios I'm pretty sure that the Android developers would get on board pretty Quick.

    Posted via CB10
    04-02-15 08:47 PM
  4. Sulaco757's Avatar
    True. I doubt Sammy could fully drop Android for BB10.

    But those BlackBerry Enterprise Suites (could come preloaded and free for a $800 device) could solve a lot of those problems. Samsung doesn't really have its own software, BlackBerry is emerging into a software company. Include the ability to load into a secure workspace that's free and clear of typical Android bloatware and clutter. My BlackBerry feels clean, organized and calm compared to my Android tablet. The android just has a bigger screen and more apps.

    I think the partnership there is more than just a lifeline to BlackBerry. I think Samsung is getting more than a "fixed" Knox out of this partnership.

     Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 
    John Villareal and thymaster like this.
    04-02-15 08:54 PM
  5. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    The one glitch in your extended theory: why would Samsung leave Android for a runtime-laden BB10?

    Samsung won't leave Android in one fell swoop. It would be gradual. BB10 does not offer that opportunity.

    I have no doubt Samsung would leave Android if it could. Problem is is that Samsung needs Android's goodies, and BB10 doesn't have a good track record.
    Maybe they can learn from BlackBerry how make an integrated functional OS. Instead of just a "hodgepodge" of duplicate individual apps.

    I've always said, their design process goes:
    Hey we should add feature A, add feature A.
    Hey we should add feature B, add feature B.
    Hey we should add feature C, add feature C.

    They don't put much weight on, "in view of feature A, we should add feature B to allow feature A to extend to AB."

    BB10, out of the box, is nicely integrated. Just feels like the thing, as a whole, was actually contemplated.

    So maybe BlackBerry can help them out with that.

    Posted via CB10
    04-02-15 08:54 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Well considering that BB10 already runs Android apps and also considering that Samsung sells almost three times as many phones as ios I'm pretty sure that the Android developers would get on board pretty Quick.

    Posted via CB10
    With regards to technology, I'm more of a Tiger Ninestein (always expect... the unexpected).

    Still, I'm relatively confident that no OEM would give up Android for a runtime.

    Keep in mind that Samsung already has two in-house OSes plus Windows Phone as options, and already don't interfere with OHA membership.
    twiggyrj and JeepBB like this.
    04-02-15 08:58 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    To clarify: I don't think Samsung "likes" Android anymore than what it can use it for. I also believe that Android's biggest attribute is its ecosystem. Unless another platform has that, Samsung isn't going anywhere.

    We've been talking about Samsung leaving Android for quite some time. Unless BB10 strips the runtime out, I doubt it'll happen.

    ... not that I'm opposed to Samsung BB10 hardware. Why not? It could give BB10 even more diversity.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-02-15 09:03 PM
  8. Ment's Avatar
    Well considering that BB10 already runs Android apps and also considering that Samsung sells almost three times as many phones as ios I'm pretty sure that the Android developers would get on board pretty Quick.

    Posted via CB10
    You keep on thinking who's the tail and whose the head in the Samsung/Google relationship. Samsung was all set to make an even more bloated magazine UI for Touchwiz before Google stepped in. Remember the talk of parts of Knox becoming part of Android for Work? Google thought about it and said 'nah we'll use our own solution and partner with other MDM/EMM' . MountainView would laugh if Samsung decided to go BB10 and without a license for Google apps and access to the Playstore. HTC and LG would throw a party, they'd finally be able to make a chunk of profits instead of the slivers they do now. Imagine the ads.

    Samsung is getting record orders for the S6 and Edge. They aren't going anywhere. Android via Google is a hangmans noose for anyone who gets in and wants to get out, there are no incremental steps.
    jmr1015 and JeepBB like this.
    04-02-15 09:09 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Samsung signed a 10-year cross-licensing agreement with Google last year, wedding them firmly to Android for another 9 years. Any dreams of Samsung buying BB10 before it dies is really a pipe dream - BB10 isn't gonna hold out that long, and I really doubt that BB10 is the droid that Samsung is looking for.
    Bbnivende and JeepBB like this.
    04-02-15 10:18 PM
  10. Soulstream's Avatar
    The problem with Samsung leaving Android for another OS is that consumers may be fooled or unaware to buy the first "new OS" Samsung thinking it's just the same as the old one in terms of ecosystem, but would be dissapointed really fast. Then the next iteration hits and not many would buy that (because of being "fooled" on the first generation).

    Say what you will about Android, but it being free and driving smartphone prices down for consumers (due to the competitive nature of the market) is a good thing (again, just for consumers). For BB, it's actually bad because they can't ask big prices for phones when an Android counterpart is cheaper and with a better ecosystem.
    04-03-15 02:59 AM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The one glitch in your extended theory: why would Samsung leave Android for a runtime-laden BB10?

    Samsung won't leave Android in one fell swoop. It would be gradual. BB10 does not offer that opportunity.

    I have no doubt Samsung would leave Android if it could. Problem is is that Samsung needs Android's goodies, and BB10 doesn't have a good track record.
    Dumb question here...
    With the soon to be useful Windows10 and the possibility of Intel finally making a mobile phone processor that finally isn't such a power sucking one (I talk about one with a X86 architecture), or battery tech making a major step forward....

    What would stop Samsung to make Windows10 phones (full OS, not WP), that are able to use WP apps and W10 programs?
    (we are talking premium prices here ofc)

    I mean, call me crazy, but I had that idea because of something else...
    The author of the article is correct. Samsung's smartphone division cannot justify their premium prices for much longer. And to be honest I see a bit of desperation on Samsung's part, making their new S6 basically like an iPhone and thus omitting features like removable batteries or SD card slots, that have been Android strength since Donut.

    Apple will very probably be one of few premium manufacturers, who can demand the premium because of the halo effects their products create, because of the high quality apps and the ecosystem overall.
    They also control their own product and can do whatever THEY want with the software.
    This is simply impossible for Android manufacturers to do.

    So yeah, Samsung is far more diversified than Apple. Windows in the default OS in the Enterprise.
    Just imagine (I know that it's far too easy sounding. It's just a theory) what it would mean for Android, if you can sell that to masses. It's actually even funnier, because Windows is able to run Android runtimes.

    Anyhow, because Samsung also produces Notebooks/tablets/TVs, there would be some huge synergy between their product lines.
    The problem of Samsung being unable to make meaningful changes to the UI or code still stands, but I would fathom that Microsoft's new leadership would be willing to listen, if the biggest smartphone manufacturer in the world talks to them.

    This would basically kill Android in most "Western" (if the price is premium, but still right) markets over some years, instantly kill enterprise deployment, when it comes down to high-end phones and would reduce Android to an OS for emerging markets and the base of the pyramid.

    Apple and Microsoft both have the luxury of making software for the PC and the smartphone. This is a synergy far far far great than whatever Google is able to provide in the next few years.
    Apple however can provide the same level of synergy.
    So, if Samsung stays with Android, while other manufacturers try the Windows route, they will then lose to Apple and whoever went with Windows.

    In my scenario, this implies that Samsung actually should be interested in becoming the first manufacturer who sells Windows10 phones, because they are still so big, that they can out price (cheaper), out market, and also out pay (for labour or materials) every competitor.
    Apple would never adopt Windows, so Samsung would have no need to worry about Apple.

    Ofc, this completely negates any chance for BB10 and ofc this sounds too easy.
    It also implies that Samsung would not use their own exynos processors and profit from their in house knowledge, as well as some cost savings.
    Maybe Samsung should buy AMD and work on ultra mobile X86 processors?

    Any feedback, apart from including a TLDR?
    04-03-15 03:29 AM
  12. Ment's Avatar
    I'm sure Samsung will make a Windows 10 phone at some point, they have a long history with Winphone, I remember my Omnia i910 and they still make the Ative Winphone 8 series for Verizon and and Sprint. It doesn't solve Samsungs problem tho they would just be switching Google apps for MS apps and would still be in a market where hardware is a commodity.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-03-15 03:53 AM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'm sure Samsung will make a Windows 10 phone at some point, they have a long history with Winphone, I remember my Omnia i910 and they still make the Samsung Ative Winphone 8 series for Verizon and and Sprint. It doesn't solve Samsungs problem tho they would just be switching Google apps for MS apps.
    Yeah, I mentioned that, but Samsung will never be able to solve that problem.
    They are a hardware manufacturer, not an OS coding giant.
    And now, with some 2.4 billion smartphones around, it would be too late for that.

    I see it more of a case of Samsung needing to decide if they want to gamble on Google or on MS.
    04-03-15 03:56 AM
  14. Ment's Avatar
    Yeah, I mentioned that, but Samsung will never be able to solve that problem.
    They are a hardware manufacturer, not an OS coding giant.
    And now, with some 2.4 billion smartphones around, it would be too late for that.

    I see it more of a case of Samsung needing to decide if they want to gamble on Google or on MS.
    It doesn't have to be either or. Samsung is big enough and needs to diversify as much as it can. If Google falls a certain percentage and Windows gain then Samsung will still make the hardware. It will also continue to make agreements with partners in new areas such as enterprise security and BB. Samsung is well on its way to become the default Android partner for enterprise, there isn't really any other Android OEM with their reach with history in the regulated space. Is HTC/LG/other going to have their phones certified for use in DOD networks?
    04-03-15 04:10 AM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It doesn't have to be either or. Samsung is big enough and needs to diversify as much as it can. If Google falls a certain percentage and Windows gain then Samsung will still make the hardware. It will also continue to make agreements with partners in new areas such as enterprise security and BB. Samsung is well on its way to become the default Android partner for enterprise, there isn't really any other Android OEM with their reach with history in the regulated space. Is HTC/LG/other going to have their phones certified for use in DOD networks?
    Mars, I tend to agree with this pov. Android will remain its focus, but Samsung is never bashful when it comes to playing around in a new sandboxes.
    04-03-15 07:14 AM
  16. THBW's Avatar
    True. I doubt Sammy could fully drop Android for BB10.

    But those BlackBerry Enterprise Suites (could come preloaded and free for a $800 device) could solve a lot of those problems. Samsung doesn't really have its own software, BlackBerry is emerging into a software company. Include the ability to load into a secure workspace that's free and clear of typical Android bloatware and clutter. My BlackBerry feels clean, organized and calm compared to my Android tablet. The android just has a bigger screen and more apps.

    I think the partnership there is more than just a lifeline to BlackBerry. I think Samsung is getting more than a "fixed" Knox out of this partnership.

     Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 
    Agreed. I think it would be suicide for Samsung to leave Android but one can't deny that the Samsung / BlackBerry relationship is getting more interesting. Step-by-step.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-15 07:50 AM
  17. twiggyrj's Avatar
    Agreed. I think it would be suicide for Samsung to leave Android but one can't deny that the Samsung / BlackBerry relationship is getting more interesting. Step-by-step.

    Posted via CB10

    Though BB10 is at the bottom of any kind of OS choice for their mobile hardware they have their Tizen and they have been making Windows Phone devices for the last 5+ years. I think Microsoft is a more likely partnership especially with Samsung preinstalling Microsoft apps and services on their android devices.
    04-03-15 08:17 AM
  18. JosevuN3's Avatar
    Haven't used Windows phone but it would be an option if BlackBerry disappeared.
    Just try it.
    I never look back after use L1520 (coming from z30)
    04-03-15 08:26 AM
  19. birdman_38's Avatar
    Samsung needs a clean operating system to set itself apart from the sea of Android.
    They already have one. It's called "Tizen".
    04-03-15 08:40 AM
  20. fishlove73's Avatar
    Glitch #2....samsung makes chipsets for Apple, Blackberry and quite a few more phones....they really don't need to be set apart.

    ρō┬Єđ bұ mұ Ů ρÚρōЯ┬.
    05-23-15 07:48 PM
  21. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    What a thread... :-)

    Keep those interesting speculations going, really enjoy my spectator role here...

      Passposted while waiting for the Z-lider....  
    05-24-15 04:00 AM
  22. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    They already have one. It's called "Tizen".
    Exactly, its in their smart watches, and the Samsung Z1 which is apparently doing well in India.
    They wouldn't have much to gain if they took BB10.

    All they need to do is ink a deal with Google to supply apps like YouTube, G Search, Google Maps, GMail, Google Now and Chrome, for Tizen OS, as Apple did for iOS.

    Tizen is still under development, Samsung are taking it slow and keeping their options open, as they did when Symbian and Windows Mobile were ruling as iOS and Android came in, Samsung at that time were the 2nd largest mobile phone maker, with Nokia at #1. Samsung kept their options open, they had WM flagships, Symbian flagships and all whilest also developing Android handsets, as well as making feature phones based on their own Java driven system.
    Its the same situation at the moment, Android is their main OS, but they dabble in Windows Phone, while they also develop their own Tizen OS and implement it here and there, I wouldn't be surprised if they have Firefox OS and Ubuntu phones being developed for testing purposes.

    If anything, BB10 needs Samsung. Samsung are huge, when one area makes a loss, another covers for it be it the Display, SoC/Memory unit, Camera, TV etc etc..., saying Samsung needs or will need BB is actually quite laughable to be honest thats like saying BMW will need SAAB. Hilarious.
    05-24-15 05:33 AM
  23. thymaster's Avatar
    Nothing last forever, the tides will change eventually. Samsung will be no exception. No matter how powerful they are right now, they could be the next big Sony failure. They are in the battle of their life with these new Chinese uprising. Either they do something drastically different altogether or soon to face downward spiral just like BlackBerry. Apple and Google shouldn't feel safe either, when the next big thing hits, boom, none of these companies will know what hit them. Look at Microsoft, the once monopoly is struggling to gain back marketshare and is now on a downward pattern. All of a sudden they are spending a lot of money to gain market dominance but at what cost. Only time will tell.
    05-24-15 01:00 PM

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