01-25-14 12:42 PM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    Wow, are you BlackBerry guys ever geeky, holy!!!! You must really like this in depth tech stuff

    Guilty as charged.
    The Big Picture likes this.
    12-08-13 08:06 AM
  2. walt63's Avatar
    I think people that argue against the security of BlackBerry are simply at a point of "what do I do?"

    They love the ecosystems of Android and Apple. They like that they feel cool to have something that so many others have. They are part of the cool club.

    But, they look at security and read these articles and are in a predicament of self satisfaction. They realized that they've give up the thing that matters the most in this digital age. They really want to be secure and have a device that governments rely on but don't want to give up the cool label.

    Look people. Choose what you want. Read the facts and move on. No need to troll around here arguing that BlackBerry isn't superior in security to its competitors. It simply is. BlackBerry will not compromise security for anything. That's why I have a BlackBerry. Even at a consumer level.

    Choose your phone and live with its pro and cons. Just make sure you know what you're giving up.
    12-08-13 08:44 AM
  3. Craigash's Avatar
    There's nothing secure about iPhone or Android

    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 10:32 AM
  4. Craigash's Avatar
    Maybe your calls and texts messages can be pulled through your Network Service Provider. Buts that's as far as it goes and that's due to the Network. Everything else on your BlackBerry is safe. That's what matters. And if BlackBerry became a Network Service Provider. Then Text messages and call would be as safe

    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 10:37 AM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    You don't get to pick and choose a couple of things and then pretend that that's all that matters. Sorry.
    .
    I think that argument goes both ways. Some BB fans (not you) are talking about BB as the anti-NSA solution, when in fact we all know that normal BlackBerry devices make phone calls and interface with cell networks exactly the same as other phones. When we talk about NSA tracking endpoints of calls for example , BB users are just as vulnerable to this as anyone else.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    bbq10l and bbhuh like this.
    12-08-13 10:46 AM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    Maybe your calls and texts messages can be pulled through your Network Service Provider. Buts that's as far as it goes and that's due to the Network. Everything else on your BlackBerry is safe. That's what matters. And if BlackBerry became a Network Service Provider. Then Text messages and call would be as safe

    Posted via CB10
    Also any emails you send to recipients who aren't on your own BES can be intercepted. Also any websites you touch outside of your own organization can be tracked.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    12-08-13 10:49 AM
  7. Jerale Hoard's Avatar
    BB10 phones that are not on BES10 are no more secure than any other phone.

    BB10 phones that are on BES10 have, potentially, several services that ARE more secure than other phones, but even then, phone calls, SMS/MMS, Web browsing, and other services are still no different than other phones.

    One of the most important aspects of security is understanding what is and isn't secure. Merely "having faith" is not security - security has real definitions and limitations, on every platform.
    Dude keep telling yourself that. From my understanding BlackBerry's are secure and is only more secure through network security which would be MDM which in this case is BES10. BlackBerry provides ECC and AES which makes the software on a technical standpoint, unhackable. Every other platform uses RSA encryption with Samsung using AES for its Knox. Technically BlackBerry's can't be hacked but through social networking phishing techniques such as Evil Twin Phishing, they can be breached which is why they provide MDM/BES10 for enterprise.

    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 11:34 AM
  8. Jerale Hoard's Avatar
    Dude keep telling yourself that. From my understanding BlackBerry's are secure and is only more secure through network security which would be MDM which in this case is BES10. BlackBerry provides ECC and AES which makes the software on a technical standpoint, unhackable. Every other platform uses RSA encryption with Samsung using AES for its Knox. Technically BlackBerry's can't be hacked but through social networking phishing techniques such as Evil Twin Phishing, they can be breached which is why they provide MDM/BES10 for enterprise.

    Posted via CB10


    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 11:36 AM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's a cellphone, it makes calls via mobile carriers.

    That has nothing to do with whether the platform is more secure and harder to exploit in a variety of ways compared to major competitors.
    The point is, a ton of BB users BELIEVE that their phone calls, texts, and non-BES emails are "more secure" on BBs than on other phones, when you and I know that's not the case.

    I'll grant you that Android has had more attacks, and has more vulnerabilities due, more than anything, to social engineering (getting USERS to AGREE to give access), but you also have to admit that one of the big reasons most attacks are on Android is because Android is the vast majority of the market! BB gets more security from OBSCURITY than from anything else right now (again, referring to consumer BB10 phones, not BES phones).

    And with BB10 users installing sideloaded apps from Chinese app stores that have been modified (provably true when the same version of the app from the Play Store works differently), BB users could well be worse off than Android users who get their apps from the Play Store.
    bbq10l, Donvald and bbhuh like this.
    12-08-13 03:30 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The point is, a ton of BB users BELIEVE that their phone calls, texts, and non-BES emails are "more secure" on BBs than on other phones, when you and I know that's not the case.
    No they don't.
    But they know if they lose their device and had it PW protected & crypted that there's near to zero chance their info or user privileges got stolen. So many people store their passwords ... and they just don't understand that even a blog password virtually reveals all the others ...

    Last week a very close friend got his iP (pw protected) stolen. 1 single hour later, all his contacts with a bank name in the mail address recieved the same email with the (abstract) following :
    Dear Mxx yyy zzz,
    please proceed to the liquidation of all my accounts (liquid and titles) and transfer them to the account described bellow [with an account located in Middle East republic] ". OF COURSE, none of his bank proceeded, but he's dealing with strategic/confidential informations, in particular with bank employees ... oh, in fact, not employees ... Can you weight how disastrous it is for his reputation ?

    Of course, everything he had on iCloud was stolen, copied. Even his music was lost, gone.

    I told him about this kind of risks, and I'm glad he partially listened to me as all his "highly sensitive" data were on a disconnected hard drive.
    ... 1 hour later he was at my office to set his BlackBerry ... "It never happened in 10 years (when he was sporting a BB) and it happened only 6 months after I bought this iP". He learned: It's not only about what happens when you're online.

    It took him 5 or 6 full days to sort all the mess out. To advise each and every contact that they may receive solicitations that seem legit and coming from him but shouldn't be trusted unless these message have his new signature. This is a true drama for him and his career. He was ashamed.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-09-13 at 03:47 AM. Reason: fixing typos
    Omnitech, world saviour and ofutur like this.
    12-08-13 04:36 PM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    And with BB10 users installing sideloaded apps from Chinese app stores that have been modified (provably true when the same version of the app from the Play Store works differently), BB users could well be worse off than Android users who get their apps from the Play Store.
    Yes and no. These apps could use (abuse) the rights you gave them (contacts, shared files, media ...) but in no case compromise other apps nor the OS. More, these apps can't do anything if they are not running.
    Remove the app: problem gone.
    That's the "viral" aspect that is containerized (BES or not) and, so far I know it's unique.
    12-08-13 04:47 PM
  12. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I'll grant you that Android has had more attacks, and has more vulnerabilities due, more than anything, to social engineering (getting USERS to AGREE to give access), but you also have to admit that one of the big reasons most attacks are on Android is because Android is the vast majority of the market! BB gets more security from OBSCURITY than from anything else right now (again, referring to consumer BB10 phones, not BES phones).
    I believe you're not ignoring the fact that the first hacker that would only suggest he broke either hardware or protection on anything BlackBerry would become the most hunted (I mean hired & paid) security consultant ?

    Now, for the volume and the % of attacks, the scale effect you mention is perfectly correct. Funny enough is to note how this was "brilliant engineering" when talking about appl, back in the 80's and somehow "pure luck" in your text ...
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-08-13 04:52 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    I think that argument goes both ways. Some BB fans (not you) are talking about BB as the anti-NSA solution, when in fact we all know that normal BlackBerry devices make phone calls and interface with cell networks exactly the same as other phones. When we talk about NSA tracking endpoints of calls for example , BB users are just as vulnerable to this as anyone else.

    As you know I've never claimed that.

    But as I pointed out here previously I believe, we now know that the NSA strategy is multi-pronged, and when they can't get their hands on things via simple network snooping or PRISM sorts of intercepts, they take sneakier (and I would argue unethical as well as potentially illegal) approaches such as compromise of vendor's technology products, compromise of communications standards, compromise of user equipment via malware and other exploits, etc.

    If there are 12 ways that NSA can gain access to data you don't want them to have and we block 4 of those, I call that a benefit.

    Thanks to the good people at the IETF and elsewhere, we are working on the other 8.

    (Along those lines: SilentCircle has now abandoned NIST-sanctioned encryption protocols because their trust in them has been lost. AES encryption and SHA hash functions will no longer be the default in their products - though available to customers who still wish to use them - because they have no way of knowing if NSA has knowledge of a secret exploit or weakness in them.)
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-08-13 06:55 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    The point is, a ton of BB users BELIEVE that their phone calls, texts, and non-BES emails are "more secure" on BBs than on other phones, when you and I know that's not the case.

    Tons of people believe tons of dumb things, including Android users who don't think their platform is full of holes.

    That's not what this discussion is about.



    I'll grant you that Android has had more attacks, and has more vulnerabilities due, more than anything, to social engineering

    Here you are trying to put a deceptive spin on things again.

    Android has been a malware haven for many years now, BEFORE it became the most popular mobile platform. Do I need to roll out the stats on that now too? Or will you just keep cranking-out this self-serving spin anyway?

    Article from 2010-07:
    Android malware steals info from one million phone owners | Naked Security

    Quoting:



    Although there's much criticism that Apple has received for the way it controls the iPhone environment, it's clear that the only malware attacks we've seen to date on that platform (such as Duh and the infamous rickrolling Ikee worms) have affected users who have chosen to jailbreak their iPhones and escape the relative safety of the AppStore.

    Yes, malware has previously emerged for jailbroken iPhones, but the malicious applications have not made it onto users' devices via Apple's highly guarded AppStore.


    12-08-13 07:07 PM
  15. R Field's Avatar
    Omnitech don't even waste your time facts and proof mean nothing to him. See : his opinion thread on "BlackBerry hardware cancelation"

    BlackBerry Z10 (Z30 inbound) | 10.2.1.1055 | C0006E212
    12-08-13 11:39 PM
  16. propeller10's Avatar
    The funny thing is both Troy and Omnitech are talking about two different things. Neither are actually wrong. Troy is talking about the security of phone calls/messages while Omnitech is talking about security of the platform itself. This has to be the misunderstanding of the month here on crackberry.
    12-08-13 11:45 PM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    The funny thing is both Troy and Omnitech are talking about two different things. Neither are actually wrong. Troy is talking about the security of phone calls/messages while Omnitech is talking about security of the platform itself. This has to be the misunderstanding of the month here on crackberry.

    No, he's backtracking heavily after making the following ridiculous sweeping assertion as the very first sentence he posted ITT:


    BB10 phones that are not on BES10 are no more secure than any other phone.

    Then he keeps trying to essentially claim that because, like any cellphone, your phone calls can be monitored, that means that the ENTIRE PLATFORM is no different in a security sense than any other platform.

    Purely ridiculous nonsense.
    12-09-13 12:13 AM
  18. pcuser's Avatar
    The issue reminds me of how the NYPD went out its way last September to promote the upgrading to iOS7 - because of its "new security features" - of iPhones. You can follow the link here, or google the news and refresh your memory. I guess U.S. authorities, such as their president, their president's smartphone security advisers, and New York's Finest, do tell a lot.

    I am glad I always have the built-in BlackBerry Protect to rely on for security and confidence through the years.
    12-09-13 12:31 AM
  19. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Omnitech is bar none the most technical person I've come across on CB in a long time. Doesn't make a statement without linking to some sort of proof. If I would've ever went to college, that's the kind of guy I would want on a debate team.

    Posted from BitPusher's Q10
    12-09-13 01:55 AM
  20. ronfc's Avatar
    Thank you, Omnitech for all the informations you've shared. One day, people will realize the importance of security and when that day comes, all those using different platforms, those who come here to talk BS about the platform we love will come running back to BlackBerry.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    12-09-13 03:37 AM
  21. R Field's Avatar
    http://ca.blackberry.com/content/dam...rity-Works.pdf

    From their own security documents.

    BlackBerry Z10 (Z30 inbound) | 10.2.1.1055 | C0006E212
    Attached Thumbnails TCSM: Is the BlackBerry really more secure than the iPhone?-img_20132027.png  
    12-09-13 10:23 AM
  22. Jerale Hoard's Avatar
    I would advise everyone on BB10 to download this document for proof of BlackBerry's basic and network security features to share with others who care for their privacy.

    http://ca.blackberry.com/content/dam...rity-Works.pdf

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-09-13 12:18 PM
  23. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Oh, BTW, you may have pretty soon acces to BES features ... THEN there will be no more comparison than black or white . But I'm sure there will be someone still arguing ... (popcorn ready).

    http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...-cloud-882492/
    R Field likes this.
    12-09-13 03:42 PM
  24. ofutur's Avatar
    Oh, BTW, you may have pretty soon acces to BES features ... THEN there will be no more comparison than black or white . But I'm sure there will be someone still arguing ... (popcorn ready).

    http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...-cloud-882492/
    Or straight from BlackBerry themselves...
    Cloud Mobility Management from BlackBerry
    Superfly_FR and flyingsolid like this.
    12-09-13 04:01 PM
  25. The Big Picture's Avatar
    No, he's backtracking heavily after making the following ridiculous sweeping assertion as the very first sentence he posted ITT:





    Then he keeps trying to essentially claim that because, like any cellphone, your phone calls can be monitored, that means that the ENTIRE PLATFORM is no different in a security sense than any other platform.

    Purely ridiculous nonsense.
    Thank you for taking us to school sir. Your contributions have been very informative and the fact that you attach your sources gives your arguments more credibility.

    Z30, Q10, Z10, iP5, SGS3
    12-09-13 06:38 PM
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