03-21-14 08:52 PM
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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    Minority?
    Well, I don't subscribe to the excuses or doctrines of low expectations.
    When people see you don't expect better of them, that's exactly what they will offer.

    Hasn't that been the swan song of most of the BlackBerry hate around here?
    If they're not held accountable by the fans, why would they consider doing any better?
    It's only OK to hold BlackBerry accountable... Not any carrier or CSR, or any other company in fact, correct?
    You don't actually put a large corporation on the same level as some teenager, do you? I work in management. I attempt to raise everyone's level of quality as high as I can, but you have to understand that people are different. Some people are just trying to feed their kids. There are different socioeconomic groups. There are various generational differences. Everyone is not you or me.

    I think we're getting off topic though. Lol.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-16-14 07:38 PM
  2. STV0726's Avatar
    No, they hurt the carriers too. Even Chen recently mentioned that he hopes to release a product in the future that the carriers can make a profit on again. If you can't figure out what that means, it means that even he is acknowledging that the carriers lost money on BB in the recent past (BB10 in particular). They lost money holding stock they couldn't sell for a long time, on phones they had to discount in order to sell, on all the requests for service they had to honor, and all of the returns/exchanges they had to provide. I can tell you as a former retailer myself, returns are a BIG money loser for the retailer. They also hurt the salesmen, as their commissions get charged back.

    No one who has worked in sales/retailing would be surprised by how the carriers and salespeople are treating BB. Disappointed, maybe, but not surprised. BB has left the carriers virtually abandoned for a year already, with no marketing, no support, no training, no product launches (the Z30 launch in Malaysia certainly didn't count), and with a product that customers didn't want and/or returned in far greater numbers than any other brand. Until a week ago, anyone not on CrackBerry was still on 10.1, and that's more than a year after the launch of BB10! Not exactly the best experience, right? Especially when most of them knew nothing about converting/sideloading apps, and were left with nothing but what was available on BB World.

    So, don't be in denial about how BB has hurt the carriers or the salespeople. Both have had to pay for a lot of BB's mistakes and poor execution. That sucks for BB (and everyone, really), but it's the truth.
    Doesn't excuse TMO's preposterous moves.

    -STV on Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2228 TMO US
    03-16-14 07:42 PM
  3. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    You don't actually put a large corporation on the same level as some teenager, do you? I work in management. I attempt to raise everyone's level of quality as high as I can, but you have to understand that people are different. Some people are just trying to feed their kids. There are different socioeconomic groups. There are various generational differences. Everyone is not you or me.

    I think we're getting off topic though. Lol.
    You may want to review your own management skills then...
    Who would hire or retain someone that is just trying to "feed their family" and not add any value to the company in which they worked.
    If you continue to employ such people, after demonstrating that they are only bodies in a company polo shirt, you are insufficient.

    Interviews 101: Be clear as to what you can offer the company in return for an opportunity.

    I also agree this was off topic. Nothing new.
    I expressed that from your first post about a company's refusal to open new products for your perusal.
    xBURK and Skyforever like this.
    03-16-14 07:46 PM
  4. xBURK's Avatar
    I happened to be in the Eaton Center yesterday. (A massive mall with about 20 cell phone stores and kiosks in downtown Toronto)

    I walked into a Rogers Outlet Store with my two year daughter in my arms. I was not looking for anything. I'm always interested in BlackBerry product placement so I just popped in for the heck if it. As I'm letting my daughter hold a Z10, a sales rep walks up to me. The first thing he says is "can I interest you in a Samsung today?" I politely said, "no thanks, I have two Z10's that I love already ." He then responds with "You'd rather have a Samsung". Just as I was in the middle of saying, "no thanks, I'm fine with BlackBerry etc..." he turns around and walks away without a word. I stood there for a second and thought what a complete a$$. I'm glad I mentioned this it to his manager. He definitely took it as a serious bone head move and hopefully he won't treat others the same way.
    On a side note, it was nice to see the manager had a Z30 in his hand. I asked him how he liked it and he explained he couldn't get through a day without it.


    Powered by BlackBerry
    Skyforever and 46Nico40 like this.
    03-16-14 07:56 PM
  5. TgeekB's Avatar
    You may want to review your own management skills then...
    Who would hire or retain someone that is just trying to "feed their family" and not add any value to the company in which they worked.
    If you continue to employ such people, after demonstrating that they are only bodies in a company polo shirt, you are insufficient.

    Interviews 101: Be clear as to what you can offer the company in return for an opportunity.

    I also agree this was off topic. Nothing new.
    I expressed that from your first post about a company's refusal to open new products for your perusal.
    Trust me, my management skills are quite good. Part of it is understanding employees and pulling the best out of them. I'm not saying settling, I hope I didn't send the wrong impression, but expecting the same from everyone is not realistic. Thanks for the "lesson" though. I'm moving on.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    extisis likes this.
    03-16-14 08:03 PM
  6. raino's Avatar
    Would you spend hundreds on a camera you cannot try? Not me.
    Where did you try your Nexus 5?
    MADBRADNYC likes this.
    03-16-14 08:08 PM
  7. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Trust me, my management skills are quite good. Part of it is understanding employees and pulling the best out of them. I'm not saying settling, I hope I didn't send the wrong impression, but expecting the same from everyone is not realistic. Thanks for the "lesson" though. I'm moving on.
    Yep. You did....
    That last sentence is most warranted.
    Thanks!
    03-16-14 08:09 PM
  8. TgeekB's Avatar
    Where did you try your Nexus 5?
    A friend had one.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-16-14 08:15 PM
  9. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Where did you try your Nexus 5?
    See.The real question will never be answered.
    He never tried his own. Only a friend's.
    How would he know before hand if the one he personally received was in proper operating order?
    03-16-14 08:24 PM
  10. TgeekB's Avatar
    See.The real question will never be answered.
    He never tried his own. Only a friend's.
    How would he know before hand if the one he personally received was in proper operating order?
    Necessary? One minute you praise me and the next pick an argument. And you're a management guru? Lol.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-16-14 08:27 PM
  11. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Necessary? One minute you praise me and the next pick an argument. And you're a management guru? Lol.
    I'm pointing out your inconsistencies and low expectations of people that should want to show professionalism.
    It only hurts when it's true................
    03-16-14 08:28 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    I'm pointing out your inconsistencies and low expectations of people that should want to show professionalism.
    It only hurts when it's true................
    Your perceptions are incorrect and would make your supposed management skills useless. If you can't read people you can't lead. Next.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    03-16-14 08:30 PM
  13. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Your perceptions are incorrect and would make your supposed management skills useless. If you can't read people you can't lead. Next.
    Well, I read this from you...
    I'm moving on.
    I'm not seeing that either. You're fake....
    Talking about someone's management skills after what you posted here.....
    God Bless.
    03-16-14 08:33 PM
  14. collinc93's Avatar
    Which makes them just like any other retailer in any other business. Are you telling me you wouldn't do the same if you owned a carrier store? You'd push a poor-selling product over putting food on your family's table?

    If you take your emotions out of it and look at it objectively, what the carriers are doing makes perfect sense from a retailer's perspective.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    ....nonsense your job is to be an informed sales rep....push all you want but dont blatantly lie and spread misinformation. You are simply making excuse...I never...my word !!!
    Skyforever likes this.
    03-16-14 08:49 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    I bet these same people complain when their order is wrong in a restaurant though..............
    Or, do they just accept the plate that's put in front of them, even if they didn't ask for it???
    Amazing....
    If I went to a restaurant and I ordered the least popular dish, one that many others had sent back to the kitchen, I would hope a good waiter would talk me out of it. It would be in his best interest, and mine if I didn't really know what I was getting into. I'd even tip higher for that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    03-16-14 10:36 PM
  16. raino's Avatar
    If I went to a restaurant and I ordered the least popular dish, one that many others had sent back to the kitchen, I would hope a good waiter would talk me out of it. It would be in his best interest, and mine if I didn't really know what I was getting into. I'd even tip higher for that.
    But what if, despite the server telling you about how bad the dish is, the dish was quite popular on, say, the restaurant's website and if you knew the server may have other motives for suggesting other dishes? How would you tip him then?
    03-16-14 11:03 PM
  17. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    If I went to a restaurant and I ordered the least popular dish, one that many others had sent back to the kitchen, I would hope a good waiter would talk me out of it. It would be in his best interest, and mine if I didn't really know what I was getting into. I'd even tip higher for that.
    I don't care if it was the least "popular" dish. I don't order for the popularity.
    I don't care how many others sent theirs back. That's their decision. Which has no bearing on me.
    I want what I want. I'm a grown man and don't need a recommendation unless I ask for one.
    I don't have to be hand held through life for the "popular" things.

    Now, if he told me that dish was known to have salmonella poisoning issues, that's another story.
    The equivalent of that kind of detriment has not been proved about BlackBerry devices.
    Only people's personal opinions. Nothing concrete about them being bad devices.
    I happen to love my BlackBerry devices throughout the years. Others do as well.

    When I ask for it, get it. Period.
    wasabiGT and Skyforever like this.
    03-16-14 11:26 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    But what if, despite the server telling you about how bad the dish is, the dish was quite popular on, say, the restaurant's website and if you knew the server may have other motives for suggesting other dishes? How would you tip him then?
    Well, if I knew it was an acquired taste, let's say, that a certain group of people really enjoyed, I'd maybe insist on trying it.

    But again, I think most people don't do that level of research, or are irrationally brand loyal, and maybe need some good advice. I'm brand loyal in some other things, like cars, (but definitely not phones), and I know I could use good advice sometimes. I consider that part of what I pay for with salespeople.

    On the popularity issue, I get that people like to be different. But for most ordinary users, I think if you're signing up for a 2-year contract you just want the phone to work with whatever new service or new app you want to use next.

    You don't know what new thing you will want to do with your phone in 2015 or 2016. I think salesperson are correct to point out that if you just want a phone which every other service and company and bank and so on supports properly, then the mainstream choices are the best, most rational, bet.

    If, on the other hand, you have an emotional or other connection with BlackBerry, or you really want a keyboard, then you just ignore the salesperson and insist on a BlackBerry.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    03-16-14 11:39 PM
  19. Mangelhaft's Avatar
    I have started to wonder if all of the misinformation about BlackBerry is actually due to peoples' ignorance, or if it is a campaign of subterfuge by the other manufacturers...

    Just a thought.
    03-16-14 11:43 PM
  20. privateeyes's Avatar
    Yet AT&T does, so as long as they do, salespeople need to put their biases aside and ring up what they're being asked for.
    Exactly!

    Posted via CB10
    03-17-14 12:07 AM
  21. privateeyes's Avatar
    If I went to a restaurant and I ordered the least popular dish, one that many others had sent back to the kitchen, I would hope a good waiter would talk me out of it. It would be in his best interest, and mine if I didn't really know what I was getting into. I'd even tip higher for that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Well, if the customer likes the dish and it's what they want even if all patrons ordered same dish and sent it back that one customer should be allowed to have the dish he wants. Maybe, he/she is allergic to other dish or simply only wants and likes the dish others refused.

    Posted via CB10
    MADBRADNYC and Skyforever like this.
    03-17-14 12:11 AM
  22. raino's Avatar
    I have started to wonder if all of the misinformation about BlackBerry is actually due to peoples' ignorance, or if it is a campaign of subterfuge by the other manufacturers...

    Just a thought.
    I wouldn't put it past Samsung.
    03-17-14 12:13 AM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Well, if the customer likes the dish and it's what they want even if all patrons ordered same dish and sent it back that one customer should be allowed to have the dish he wants. Maybe, he/she is allergic to other dish or simply only wants and likes the dish others refused.

    Posted via CB10
    Or maybe the customer simply didn't know any better. I think of my hairdresser. She bought a WP7 device very early on because her brother is a huge Microsoft fanboy. She didn't know any better, and was pushed into a bad decision by a zealot. Of course she hated it because she wanted to use this app or that email service and none of it really worked well. She was jumping up and down excited when her contract was finally up for renewal, and loves her S4 because everything she wants just works now. That's what she needed from a phone.

    It would have been a very good idea if the salesperson had talked to her about the risks and substantial inconvenience of buying an alternative platform. Then if she was the MSFT zealot, she could still buy it, but if she really wasn't she'd have something to think about.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    03-17-14 12:20 AM
  24. privateeyes's Avatar
    Well, if I knew it was an acquired taste, let's say, that a certain group of people really enjoyed, I'd maybe insist on trying it.

    But again, I think most people don't do that level of research, or are irrationally brand loyal, and maybe need some good advice. I'm brand loyal in some other things, like cars, (but definitely not phones), and I know I could use good advice sometimes. I consider that part of what I pay for with salespeople.

    On the popularity issue, I get that people like to be different. But for most ordinary users, I think if you're signing up for a 2-year contract you just want the phone to work with whatever new service or new app you want to use next.

    You don't know what new thing you will want to do with your phone in 2015 or 2016. I think salesperson are correct to point out that if you just want a phone which every other service and company and bank and so on supports properly, then the mainstream choices are the best, most rational, bet.

    If, on the other hand, you have an emotional or other connection with BlackBerry, or you really want a keyboard, then you just ignore the salesperson and insist on a BlackBerry.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Well, I can speak for myself and I know what I want because I know what works for me and do my research as much as possible before attempting to purchase a product. Before some sales person with their bias views gives me their negative opinion on the product I want starts putting it down I would expect them to at least be up to date and know before trying to sway me away from what I want or worse talking trash about only because they are a follower. See the thing is in the world you have Followers and Leaders I always chose to lead not follow. I go with what works for me. Many have abandoned BlackBerry but guess what nit me it work for my needs. Like all platforms it may have it's flaws but tell me one that does not? Not all sales people might know about a specific product but someone in the store should and if they don't know anything about the product they (sales rep) should not start dictating on what works for the customer. More of a reason for the sales rep should not give negative input same for waiter in resturant. It may be an acquired taste or it can be a preference thing or maybe customer is allergic at the end does not matter what waiter wants customers to have or recommends or sales person prefers to sell you it comes down to what consumer likes and enjoy's.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by privateeyes; 03-19-14 at 09:18 AM.
    MADBRADNYC likes this.
    03-17-14 12:30 AM
  25. privateeyes's Avatar
    Or maybe the customer simply didn't know any better. I think of my hairdresser. She bought a WP7 device very early on because her brother is a huge Microsoft fanboy. She didn't know any better, and was pushed into a bad decision by a zealot. Of course she hated it because she wanted to use this app or that email service and none of it really worked well. She was jumping up and down excited when her contract was finally up for renewal, and loves her S4 because everything she wants just works now. That's what she needed from a phone.

    It would have been a very good idea if the salesperson had talked to her about the risks and substantial inconvenience of buying an alternative platform. Then if she was the MSFT zealot, she could still buy it, but if she really wasn't she'd have something to think about.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Once again I speak for myself and I believe most loyal BlackBerry consumers normally know more than sales rep because sales rep are only trying to push certain products.

    Posted via CB10
    03-17-14 12:32 AM
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