03-04-14 06:57 PM
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  1. cbvinh's Avatar
    I don't see why people in the US don't just:

    Buy their phones online
    Upgrade online
    Buy the phone separately, use a SIM-only contract?

    Here in the UK SIM only contracts and pay as you go (prepaid) are fairly popular, and SIM only contracts actually have really good deals. We have this one carrier, 3, �20 a month, 12 month contract ($35/month) - 2000 mins, 5000 3-to-3 mins, unlimited texts and all-you-can-eat data no fair usage policy, tethering allowed.
    Of the four major carriers in the U.S., Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile, only T-Mobile offers contracts where you can bring your own phone and pay a service fee that /doesn't/ include a subsidy for a phone upgrade. For example, if I bring my own phone to Verizon, I will pay the same service fee that I would if I had signed a contract and gotten a subsidized phone. In concrete numbers, it would be $70/month, for example, whether I bring my own phone or sign a contract that gives me a subsidized phone every two years. Between the two choices, most people would just sign the contract and get a new, subsidized phone every two years.

    On T-Mobile, there are no subsidized phones. You start with a base plan, $50/month, then if you want a phone, they'll tack on $X/month for 24 months. After 24 months, the phone is yours and you only pay the base price of $50/month instead of the $50+X/month. This is more like in the U.K.

    I went to the Apple store once and I'm like what's so great about an iPhone? The dude was weird, gay American accent in the UK(not saying American accents are gay but he had the gay American accent) and started smiling at me and was all like "Because it's an iPhone, what's there not to love". He was extremely expressive and his argument was backed up by all 10 of his gestures but none of his "facts".

    Never mind, Apple doesn't have gestures, might as well change that last line
    Are you not religious? Sometimes something is true because you have faith that it is true.
    anon(4185604) likes this.
    02-25-14 10:00 PM
  2. anontoday's Avatar
    Honesty I can not,for the life of me understand how consumers walk into a corporate store and walk out without what they went in for. I hear all the horror stories. We ARE the consumer, they work for us. You have not only the advertisement, but trade in your hand as well? There would be absolutely no way in he** I would leave without what it was I wanted. That's bate-n-switch, false advertising and a number of other illegal practices. Call it what you will it's just plain wrong and illegal.
    I've been on contract with att for a good while now. When we lived in Phoenix cell reception was never an issue. I moved from Phoenix to a small town up north and cell reception was horrid. I came aware if a little thing called a Microcell. I called ATT and was told it would cost me 200 cash. I said nope, they said yes,. About an hour later I found the AT&T corporate site. Shot off an email to (asked not to reveal) Mr bla bla. The next morning (not even 12 hours) I received a phone call and the Microcell was being shipped next day. It all boils down to how much work you are willing to put in to get what you want. If your add says you get 200 off by goodness get your 200 off. If you have to drive 2 hours one way to get it ; gas up the car baby daddy's go on a road trip. Stop taking no as if it were etched in cement. Take a bigger hammer. I would even believe if the police were called, they would see the point as well. Tmo is ahhh heck I can't even begin there

    Posted via CB10
    Completely agree!

    Noticed though the age of many forum members, quite a few in their 20's and not all, but a majority I'd say don't have the self confidence, life experiences or knowledge to go up against deceptive biz practices. They take no or can't do for an answer. Fact is.. if you can fulfill your half of the deal the company advertised, the company is legally obligated to fulfill their half. Period.

    Posted via CB10 Q10
    02-25-14 11:30 PM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    I don't see why people in the US don't just:

    Buy their phones online
    Upgrade online
    Buy the phone separately, use a SIM-only contract?

    Here in the UK SIM only contracts and pay as you go (prepaid) are fairly popular


    Up until very recently, it was against the law for people in the USA to unlock a phone without the permission of the carrier they bought it from. Most phones here are sold as locked to a specific carrier.

    The market here is very different. The vast majority of mobile phones are sold by wireless carriers.

    Wireless carriers also provide customer support on the product. Blackberry will not take a support call directly from an end-user, they require you to go through your carrier or reseller. ONLY IF the carrier or reseller has engaged with you in detail and cannot resolve the issue will Blackberry consider getting involved. Blackberry does not employ thousands of customer service reps whose only job is to field calls from customers who don't know how to turn on the phone.

    If you buy it from an online reseller, horror stories abound. Most of them provide little to no support. If something goes wrong, you are typically S.O.L., or at the very least going to be very inconvenienced and wait quite a while to get your issue addressed.
    anon(4185604) likes this.
    02-26-14 01:06 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Up until very recently, it was against the law for people in the USA to unlock a phone without the permission of the carrier they bought it from. Most phones here are sold as locked to a specific carrier.

    Yes - very, VERY recently.


    U.S. House passes bill to lift block on cellphone unlocking | CrackBerry.com
    02-26-14 11:08 AM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    (This post contains a table, which may not be properly viewable using the CB10 app)


    Non-Contracted prices of BlackBerry smartphones at major US carriers


    T-Mobile AT&T Verizon
    Z10 $456 $299 $299
    Q10 $528 $389 $399


    "Let me just add $160 to the retail price of this device so I can give you your '$200 discount' for that valuable trade-in, Ms. Customer..."
    02-26-14 11:15 AM
  6. sxchan's Avatar
    I think BB and Mr. Chen should be made aware of this, but really it should be T-Mobile that should be made aware of this, since they were the ones that came up with the deal. If they aren't going to honor what they advertise, then that could be considered bait and switch (since they were trying to get you to switch to an IOS or android) and you told them that you wanted a BB.

    Can you bring your phone # to another carrier? I mean, even though Verizon is still slacking on the update for the Q10 and Z30, I think the Q10 is $49.99 on a new 2 year contract and the Z30 is $99.99 on a new 2 year contract and the Z10 is free on the same contract deal.

    Thoughts of switching? If T-Mobile continues to do this to their BB customer base, then they will slowly start to leave for other carriers and they might see the affects.
    02-26-14 11:25 AM
  7. anontoday's Avatar
    (This post contains a table, which may not be properly viewable using the CB10 app)


    Non-Contracted prices of BlackBerry smartphones at major US carriers.....

    "Let me just add $160 to the retail price of this device so I can give you your '$200 discount' for that valuable trade-in, Ms. Customer..."
    I don't know about att, but my husband has verizon and I have tmo. Over last 12 years, I've gotten every phone for free, including my pearl, curve, and bold. My husband hasn't. And my monthly bill (same service, though his coverage is better, but I don't need same) is half the price of his. My current purchase of q10 was 528 -160...$368, and I have a refurbished z10 on the way for $38, with their new "without contract" pricing. Over the last 12 years, I'd say I've made out on tmo's phone deals, and can't complain about the monthly bill. Will I continue to purchase phones at their top prices? No, not now, because soon enough it won't be in my favor.

    Additionally, where else are you going to purchase new and if you don't like the phone or have some problem with it, you can send back no questions asked? Not everyone has the tolerance to deal with purchasing outside their carrier. Purchasing via carrier has become convenient, and you certainly can't purchase phone from verizon and use it on tmo. Perhaps you need add monthly plan rates to your chart, and then tmo phone pricing won't look so bad. Of course, purchasing from non carriers would most likely find you best pricing... however, as I mentioned, not everyone has the tolerance when things go bad. The 200 off isn't such a great deal on new equipment of course, but it's not bad if you can get 250 off refurbished, along with their policy to send it back if there's a problem.
    02-26-14 11:40 AM
  8. anontoday's Avatar
    I think BB and Mr. Chen should be made aware of this, but really it should be T-Mobile that should be made aware of this, since they were the ones that came up with the deal. If they aren't going to honor what they advertise, then that could be considered bait and switch (since they were trying to get you to switch to an IOS or android) and you told them that you wanted a BB.
    You'd have to wait until the end of the promotion to see if it's truly (legally) bait and switch or outright deceiptful marketing. Bait and switch can't be based on the email they sent out alone. Though it was a sleazy thing to do to BB, if it wasn't in tmo's contract with bb not to do it, the iphone email promotion directed at bb users was merely unethical. In the end, if consumers can't get what they were promised (and the backordered phones don't come in and tmo doesn't make good on that in some way related to bb phones), a class action attorney (another US phenomenon, lol) will be able to make a nice dollar.
    02-26-14 12:01 PM
  9. redtail34's Avatar
    (This post contains a table, which may not be properly viewable using the CB10 app)


    Non-Contracted prices of BlackBerry smartphones at major US carriers


    T-Mobile AT&T Verizon
    Z10 $456 $299 $299
    Q10 $528 $389 $399

    "Let me just add $160 to the retail price of this device so I can give you your '$200 discount' for that valuable trade-in, Ms. Customer..."
    I followed the sales person advice, "Look for one on ebay." The only difference is I'm not going with them. T-mobile's phone is more expensive but their plan is cheaper.
    02-26-14 12:08 PM
  10. cbvinh's Avatar
    Up until very recently, it was against the law for people in the USA to unlock a phone without the permission of the carrier they bought it from. Most phones here are sold as locked to a specific carrier.
    It was against the law in as much as it is illegal to circumvent copy protections. People could still buy unlocked phones, but there was no incentive to do so, when subsdized phones were offered and there were no discounts for bringing your own phone. Even after the contract period, when you owned your phone outright, unlocking a subsidized phone was still at the whim of the carrier. That made it difficult to just switch carriers and use a SIM only type plan.
    02-26-14 12:31 PM
  11. onvisa's Avatar
    I followed the sales person advice, "Look for one on ebay." The only difference is I'm not going with them. T-mobile's phone is more expensive but their plan is cheaper.
    I'm purchaser, I see these deals every day.
    This is a gimmick, your not SAVING NOTHING.
    What they are doing is charging you more for the phone and less on the plan, when you compare to another provider it works the same when you combine the phone and plan.But they will tell you they have a cheaper plan and that is the selling part.You go omg that's good plan, hook, line and sinker.
    When going to a Carrier you have to look at the whole picture and check what it will cost you for 12 months.
    02-26-14 01:02 PM
  12. redtail34's Avatar
    I'm purchaser, I see these deals every day.
    This is a gimmick, your not SAVING NOTHING.
    What they are doing is charging you more for the phone and less on the plan, when you compare to another provider it works the same when you combine the phone and plan.But they will tell you they have a cheaper plan and that is the selling part.You go omg that's good plan, hook, line and sinker.
    When going to a Carrier you have to look at the whole picture and check what it will cost you for 12 months.
    Yes, you're right. That's why I prefer prepaid.
    02-26-14 01:20 PM
  13. anontoday's Avatar
    I'm purchaser, I see these deals every day.
    This is a gimmick, your not SAVING NOTHING.
    What they are doing is charging you more for the phone and less on the plan, when you compare to another provider it works the same when you combine the phone and plan.But they will tell you they have a cheaper plan and that is the selling part.You go omg that's good plan, hook, line and sinker.
    When going to a Carrier you have to look at the whole picture and check what it will cost you for 12 months.
    Over the last 12 years or 12 months, however you want to tabulate it, I've saved hugely on tmo over my husband on verizon, plan and equipment taken into account. Now that tmo has switched to no contract and no more free phones, I won't save as much. Perhaps nothing and it'll be time to switch to a company with more coverage than tmo.

    Posted via CB10 Q10
    02-26-14 01:27 PM
  14. cbvinh's Avatar
    You'd have to wait until the end of the promotion to see if it's truly (legally) bait and switch or outright deceiptful marketing. Bait and switch can't be based on the email they sent out alone. Though it was a sleazy thing to do to BB, if it wasn't in tmo's contract with bb not to do it, the iphone email promotion directed at bb users was merely unethical. In the end, if consumers can't get what they were promised (and the backordered phones don't come in and tmo doesn't make good on that in some way related to bb phones), a class action attorney (another US phenomenon, lol) will be able to make a nice dollar.
    So far, it sure doesn't seem like a bait and switch, just too quick of a rollout. They've gone to the trouble of relisting the Q10 and Z10 on the website, which makes it feasible to do the trade-in online, without having to go to a store, though at a store, you can get the instant credit by turning in your phone immediately instead of waiting for the new phone, shipping the old via prepaid postage and waiting 2-3 billing cycles for the credit.
    02-26-14 01:37 PM
  15. cbvinh's Avatar
    (This post contains a table, which may not be properly viewable using the CB10 app)


    Non-Contracted prices of BlackBerry smartphones at major US carriers


    T-Mobile AT&T Verizon
    Z10 $456 $299 $299
    Q10 $528 $389 $399


    "Let me just add $160 to the retail price of this device so I can give you your '$200 discount' for that valuable trade-in, Ms. Customer..."
    Well, for BlackBerry's, it's $250 off, so Z10 is $206 and Q10 is $278. Even with only $200 off, the Z10 would be $256 and the Q10 would be only $328, cheaper than both AT&T and Verizon and the plan would be cheaper.
    02-26-14 01:49 PM
  16. onvisa's Avatar
    You have to remember all plans are in favor of the carriers.
    02-26-14 03:17 PM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    Well, for BlackBerry's, it's $250 off, so Z10 is $206 and Q10 is $278. Even with only $200 off, the Z10 would be $256 and the Q10 would be only $328, cheaper than both AT&T and Verizon and the plan would be cheaper.

    The $250 is only if you are an existing customer. For new customers, they don't get the extra $50.
    02-26-14 03:51 PM
  18. cbvinh's Avatar
    The $250 is only if you are an existing customer. For new customers, they don't get the extra $50.
    True. For a new customer, the savings is $43 for a Z10 or $61 for a Q10, compared to AT&T and Verizon prices. It's certainly not $200 off current retail prices of their competitors.
    02-26-14 04:16 PM
  19. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    I'm not sure if this is applicable along with this offer as there my be some restrictions, but I believe T-Mobile will also pay you ETFs if you switch from another carrier. So that would far exceed the extra $50.00 off, correct?
    02-26-14 04:19 PM
  20. cbvinh's Avatar
    I'm not sure if this is applicable along with this offer as there my be some restrictions, but I believe T-Mobile will also pay you ETFs if you switch from another carrier. So that would far exceed the extra $50.00 off, correct?
    Yes, they'll pay the ETF, up to $350/line, I believe, though if the ETF is lower, I don't believe the difference will go toward a new device.

    Non-T-Mobile customers: $200 off for trading in a BlackBerry and $350/line ETF
    T-Mobile customers: $250 off for trading in a BlackBerry, $200 for any other device
    02-26-14 06:43 PM
  21. 93Aero's Avatar
    Yesterday after speaking with TMO 611 I decided today to take both my 8310 and 8320 to trade in.
    I walked into the store and was immediately greeted by two sales people. With both my BlackBerry trade ins in hand I said Hi I'm here to take advantage of the BlackBerry trade in offer.

    The rep frowns and says Blackberry's are obsolete.
    At his response I was at a loss for words.
    Once regaining my composure with mouth agape, waiting for him to finish his well thoughtout profound statement.

    Seeing the bewildered look on my face he said come over here, we then walked to the computer terminal.
    He said what model did you want to get? I said another Q10 that I'm giving to a friend I already have two of my own.
    He said we don't carry any type BlackBerry anymore. I said actually you do just not in most stores.

    I told him that I was told by the rep on 611 that once you verified my trade in, the phone would be mailed, he then said we don't do that you have to do that, he then said something to the effect that 'what they do on the phone is not how it works in the store'.


    He made a call to veriffy what I was saying was accurate, looked at the phone and said he could accept it even though it's on AT&T

    I then handed him the tmobile branded model.
    Once he was off the phone, I asked what makes you say BlackBerry's are obsolete when they still have new models coming out especially when you didn't know what model I wanted?

    He just stood there staring as his face started to take on this weird tick where his cheek and eye started to twitch.

    I said oh ok no comment I guess.

    He then says since you seem to know more than me I can get someone else to help you and walks off.

    I then stand there patiently watching 3 out of 7 reps after hearing the exchange not even come over to help or offer assistance.
    There were to reps at the very next terminal comparing there progress in a game on their phones, both heard everything and didn't offer assistance.
    Finally someone came from the back who was aware of the trade in promotion and was even aware of the reason the trade in came about.

    To make a long story short, I decided take my chances and try and find a store that has one in stock before the promo is over. Only because I didn't want to wait
    I was offered all other devices in the store which is understandable I know they want to make a sale.
    But I had never been made to feel so uneasy about my choice of a brand of product.

    It was like I was being penalised for this reps ignorance.

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 03:23 PM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    I walked into the store and was immediately greeted by two sales people. With both my BlackBerry trade ins in hand I said Hi I'm here to take advantage of the BlackBerry trade in offer.

    The rep frowns and says Blackberry's are obsolete.
    At his response I was at a loss for words.
    Once regaining my composure with mouth agape, waiting for him to finish his well thoughtout profound statement. [...]


    He said we don't carry any type BlackBerry anymore. I said actually you do just not in most stores. [...]

    Once he was off the phone, I asked what makes you say BlackBerry's are obsolete when they still have new models coming out especially when you didn't know what model I wanted?

    He just stood there staring as his face started to take on this weird tick where his cheek and eye started to twitch.

    I said oh ok no comment I guess.

    He then says since you seem to know more than me I can get someone else to help you and walks off.

    And no one else bothered to try to help you.

    These stories are way WAY too common.

    And based on my own experience, they do not surprise me at all. I have seen exactly this sort of behaviour countless times myself.

    I love the part about his cheek and eye twitching. Common physical manifestation of someone caught lying.

    Sigh.
    02-27-14 06:18 PM
  23. anon(4185604)'s Avatar
    And no one else bothered to try to help you.

    These stories are way WAY too common.

    And based on my own experience, they do not surprise me at all. I have seen exactly this sort of behaviour countless times myself.

    I love the part about his cheek and eye twitching. Common physical manifestation of someone caught lying.

    Sigh.
    We need to record this and get it on YouTube, then make sure that the CEO's of these effing carriers know what's going on.

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 06:42 PM
  24. 93Aero's Avatar
    No one helped from 2:43pm the time I wrote on my hand till 2:57pm till someone came from the back.

    It was actually longer than 14 minutes, that's just the time I started to document my wait.
    I made it a point to keep notes after the guy said since I seemed to know more than he did, he would get someone else to help me. That was totally uncalled for.
    Two reps like I said were comparing their progress on some game they were playing on their phones at the register.
    In total there were 8 employees at this location. 7 on the floor and 1 more came from the back.
    And the store inside the mall is small so everyone heard the conversation without us even talking loud.

    After calling 6 stores in Md/DC none happen to have a Q10 in stock, so I'll have to let it be ordered.
    I was so caught off guard by this rep that I'd forgotten about the expedited shipping.


    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 06:43 PM
  25. 93Aero's Avatar
    We need to record this and get it on YouTube, then make sure that the CEO's of these effing carriers know what's going on.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed, I've been trying to put it out of my head earlier. But later I'll find out the GM of that store and let them know.

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 06:45 PM
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