06-25-12 09:56 AM
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  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    When you throw a stone into a pond, there will surely be ripples created by the impact. Yesterday, Microsoft threw a big stone into the mobile computing pond by announcing Surface.

    Surface looks like a well-designed and slick product(s). But, I believe that Surface demonstrates how uncertain the future is for Microsoft, Apple and everyone else. Microsoft is now a PC maker, something that it has never been in its history. Balmer made an attempt to show that MS has always designed hardware. Yeah, but so what. It is one thing to design a mouse or a keyboard. Building PCs is something different.

    Why is this a big deal? MS became what it is by selling its OS to OEMs like Dell and HP. Those OEMs built the boxes and sold WinTel PCs. It was a partnership.

    Now, PC OEMs are competitors to Microsoft, not partners. This will create a lot of nervous OEMs. Those guys will be looking for a Plan B. I don't care how MS spins this, but it is a major sea change in the way business has been done over the last 30 years.

    HP kind of had it right when it bought Palm. It knew then that it could not rely on MS. Management changes screwed up HPs original plans and killed WebOs, but I think HP will now see its mistake. HP and other OEMs will see that they cannot put all of their eggs in the basket that is Microsoft.

    This is where RIM should see an opportunity. RIM's BB10 could be seen by the OEMs as a basket that they want to put their eggs in. Obviously there are other options like Android, but Google seems to be moving in the direction of doing things itself, as evidenced by next week's rumored announcement of the Nexus 7 tablet.

    Here's the thing, if I was in Thorsten Hein's shoes, I'd be on the phone this morning with the CEOs of HP, Dell, and every other major PC OEM. Invite them to Waterloo to check out BB10. RIM should consider moving out of the tablet space and let PC OEMs have their way with it. Maybe RIM should just partner with a single PC OEM and let the others scramble for their own Plan Bs.

    We just witnessed a big change in the market. Changes create opportunities. RIM should do its best to capitalize on this change.
    willie44 likes this.
    06-19-12 06:21 AM
  2. JasW's Avatar
    RIM is not going to start making an OS for PCs. And as for HP et al. adopting BB10 for tabs or whatever -- you are talking WebOS redux, at least in their eyes per the conventional wisdom likening RIM to Palm. Once bitten, twice shy.
    06-19-12 06:32 AM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM is at least 5 years from having an OS that could compete with Windows 7 on the desktop/Enterprise front, heck Apple's Mac OSX barely competes in that space, so really why would PC OEM's abandon Microsoft?

    Microsoft would be foolish to cut ties with other players, what this announcement does is tells Players like Dell, HP, Gateway, that they should stay out of the tablet space, Desktops/servers/ Notebooks they should remain focused on what they currently do, and possibly look for hardware partnerships to build other technology gadgets as assemblers more than designers.

    Microsoft NEEDS to get controls on their hardware for mobile, clearly relying on partners hasn't worked well as of late.
    But this is far from a time for RIM to reach out to even more unknown markets and over extend the reach of BB10.

    RIM's BB10 focus needs to be
    - Unification of the Mobile phone, and tablet experience. Making the integration between the 2 devices second to non!
    - Integration with the transportation sector, QNX Auto and BB10 need to be very friendly people get attached to their cars like they do their phones, if you play those relationships together you can build stronger brand loyalty

    RIM does not need to get into the low margin PC game, that is a shrinking market, not a growing one, they'd be better served in trying to secure MS Office on the phone/tablet space to help Microsoft keep a hold of document formats, than try and fight Microsoft in the hardware OE loyalty fight
    06-19-12 06:42 AM
  4. lawguyman's Avatar
    RIM is not going to start making an OS for PCs. And as for HP et al. adopting BB10 for tabs or whatever -- you are talking WebOS redux, at least in their eyes per the conventional wisdom likening RIM to Palm. Once bitten, twice shy.
    You are generalizing. WebOs failed because HP had a management change and decided to go in a different direction and decided not to invest the billions into the platform that it would have taken to build it.

    It did not have to happen this way.

    Even HP (with new management) might see the benefits of having a partner in a platform.
    06-19-12 06:45 AM
  5. paranoiad's Avatar
    it's a nice idea but i want first see BB10!
    06-19-12 06:49 AM
  6. lawguyman's Avatar
    RIM is at least 5 years from having an OS that could compete with Windows 7 on the desktop/Enterprise front, heck Apple's Mac OSX barely competes in that space, so really why would PC OEM's abandon Microsoft?

    Microsoft would be foolish to cut ties with other players, what this announcement does is tells Players like Dell, HP, Gateway, that they should stay out of the tablet space, Desktops/servers/ Notebooks they should remain focused on what they currently do, and possibly look for hardware partnerships to build other technology gadgets as assemblers more than designers.

    Microsoft NEEDS to get controls on their hardware for mobile, clearly relying on partners hasn't worked well as of late.
    But this is far from a time for RIM to reach out to even more unknown markets and over extend the reach of BB10.

    RIM's BB10 focus needs to be
    - Unification of the Mobile phone, and tablet experience. Making the integration between the 2 devices second to non!
    - Integration with the transportation sector, QNX Auto and BB10 need to be very friendly people get attached to their cars like they do their phones, if you play those relationships together you can build stronger brand loyalty

    RIM does not need to get into the low margin PC game, that is a shrinking market, not a growing one, they'd be better served in trying to secure MS Office on the phone/tablet space to help Microsoft keep a hold of document formats, than try and fight Microsoft in the hardware OE loyalty fight
    I don't disagree with al ot of what you write. I am not suggesting that BB10 get put on Desktop PCs. The only one who makes money in that game is MS. OEMs have terrible margins. HP was considering selling its PC business for this reason.

    I am talking about mobile computing.

    Why can't BB10 compete with Windows RT? Both are brand new platforms. RT is not backward compatible. Both face the same challenges.

    RIM has to try to capitalize on the disruption that MS's move has created.
    06-19-12 06:54 AM
  7. lawguyman's Avatar
    They already have a partner. Start building Microsoft tablets. Safe bet and will integrate well with their laptops/desktops.
    They will build MS tablets but they will realize that they cannot rely on MS as they have in the past. The game has changed. MS is now their competitor.
    06-19-12 06:57 AM
  8. lawguyman's Avatar
    Because with Windows RT you can have a phone, tablet, desktop, laptop and your XBox all working together nice and neat. Most people already have the laptop, desktop and XBox covered.

    Enter RIM. A phone which is struggling, a tablet that failed, no desktop/laptop OS and no gaming system.

    Which of the two would be the safest bet?
    Not true. Windows Mobile is not compatible with Windows 8 which is not compatible with Windows RT. None of these things are compatible with Xbox, for whatever that is worth.

    MS is throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall and hoping something sticks. It has so little faith in its OEM partners that it has decided it is necessary to get into the hardware game.

    This shows that there is an opportunity for RIM.
    06-19-12 07:18 AM
  9. lawguyman's Avatar
    Zero opportunity for RIM which is why you won't see anything like that happening.

    When your laptop or desktop fries you buy a new W8 one when it's out. Then you're in the new ecosystem, you might want a tablet and phone next to match. And oooh, lookie, shiny XBox app to check your scores, buddies and chat.

    Very much all integrated.
    Just like MS wanted us to buy Zunes or Kin or how MS did not want to eat billions when almost all of the original XBox 360s had the RROD problem. Not all plans are successful And MS does not have a great track record in manufacturing.

    RIM should try to take advantage of the opportunity this move creates.
    06-19-12 07:30 AM
  10. kyleheney's Avatar
    I'm really surprised Microsoft doesn't see the opportunity with RIM. QNX is a huge piece of RIM's puzzle and MS should want that piece. If Windows 8 is successful (in PCs and this new tablet), the next logical step for MS would be to try to bring it to the automobile. Other than Sync, what has MS really done in this sector? By partnering with RIM, MS could more easily integrate their devices with automobiles, gain a much larger portion of the mobile phone market, and give RIM users access to all the Windows 8 goodness (Office, etc).
    06-19-12 07:33 AM
  11. lawguyman's Avatar
    What does Zune have to do with your laptop, desktop, phone, tablet and XBox all having perfect synergy with each other? Zune was a desperate attempt to combat iPods.

    RIM is not going to do anything. Microsoft is. And Apple will continue their efforts to integrate iOS more and more into Mac OS X. Google won't do much either as long as everything can still use their services.

    Yes. Zune was a desperate attempt to compete with iPod. Metro/Windows 8/Windows Phone/Windows RT is similarly a desperate attempt to compete with Apple.

    Microsoft has lost confidence in the OEM partnerships that made it successful and has decided that it needs to be more like Apple. My point is only that there is an opportunity for RIM to exploit OEM dissatisfaction.
    willie44 likes this.
    06-19-12 07:56 AM
  12. kyleheney's Avatar
    Why would it be a logical step with vehicles? If RIM had an ice cream shop would you think it logical to have Microsoft hand out ice cream with each phone purchase? There is zero logic and a lot of wishful thinking here.

    If Microsoft wants in on the auto industry they'll do it themselves.
    Tech in automobiles has been said to be the next big wave for mobile computing... QNX is already in tons of vehicles and runs the brains of a lot of cars already on the road today. Why not partner with someone who can not only help you in the phone business, but also in the auto business? Seems like a smart move for MS in my opinion.
    06-19-12 08:08 AM
  13. princesultan's Avatar
    the surface is the complete OPPOSITE of an opportunity for rim... it's a threat.

    let's all be honest with ourselves here, the playbook has failed miserably. you can say whatever you want about it being a "test" device for bb10 or whatever other explanation you may have, but truth be told they should really discontinue their efforts in the tablet market. i see no conceivable way that they can actually take away any market share from apple and now microsoft, two MAJOR players.

    am i saying the playbook is a bad product? no. in fact i own one and i love it, but this whole tablet effort on rim's part was put together extremely poorly.
    yanicmb, hispanola, CDM76 and 1 others like this.
    06-19-12 08:12 AM
  14. kyleheney's Avatar
    Microsoft needs the OEM's as much as they need Microsoft. There is zero reason to adopt something which has already proven a failure. The future lies in having as many devices using the same ecosystem.

    As it stands Microsoft could be the first to have full synergy between all their devices, even ahead of Apple who have only just slightly started down this path.
    Very true... why do we like the PlayBook so much? Well one reason is Bridge - - the seamless connection between our phone and our tablet. If MS can make a seamless transition between PC/tablet/phone then they'll get a lot of interest. Problem is, Windows Phone isn't very popular. I think MS is banking on Windows 8 on PCs to impress people enough that it convinces them to go out and get a tablet to take their PCs mobile. After doing this, they'll like Windows 8 more and more and eventually figure it makes sense to move to a Windows Phone. BB users are going the opposite way (phone - tablet - laptop?)... interesting to see how it all plays out.
    06-19-12 08:13 AM
  15. kyleheney's Avatar
    Because there is no reason to do it. If they want to do it they'll create their own version. Microsoft finally woke up and realized what Apple has been doing. Apple is moving into automobiles too. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to.understand the general public will adopt Apple before RIM.
    Even Apple in automobiles is using a QNX backbone... the reality is QNX is at the heart of a car's OS. If one BIG player owns that backbone, they could potentially control the auto tech industry and dictate which devices do what.

    RIM owns QNX.
    06-19-12 08:15 AM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar
    Microsoft needs the OEM's as much as they need Microsoft. There is zero reason to adopt something which has already proven a failure. The future lies in having as many devices using the same ecosystem.

    As it stands Microsoft could be the first to have full synergy between all their devices, even ahead of Apple who have only just slightly started down this path.
    I'm not sure what you see that I don't but Microsoft has at least four ecosystems, not one. Thus, no synergy.

    OEMs need to hedge against MS's move in order to protect themselves. They will do something. RIM should present itself as an option. This is one reason (you wrote that there were none).
    06-19-12 08:16 AM
  17. lawguyman's Avatar
    the surface is the complete OPPOSITE of an opportunity for rim... it's a threat.

    let's all be honest with ourselves here, the playbook has failed miserably. you can say whatever you want about it being a "test" device for bb10 or whatever other explanation you may have, but truth be told they should really discontinue their efforts in the tablet market. i see no conceivable way that they can actually take away any market share from apple and now microsoft, two MAJOR players.

    am i saying the playbook is a bad product? no. in fact i own one and i love it, but this whole tablet effort on rim's part was put together extremely poorly.
    First thing:. At this point, MS has exactly a 0% market share.

    Second thing:. Of course Surface is a threat. MS has tons of cash to spend and MS has to be in this market. But, RIM has competed in hostile environments and directly with Microsoft before. Competition is a fact of the marketplace. The point is that RIM should try to exploit the fears that OEMs will surely have in the wake of MS entering the PC market for the first time.
    06-19-12 08:21 AM
  18. kyleheney's Avatar
    Bridge is kinda pointless now with new wireless plans including a hotspots. Microsoft turned everything upside down.

    Nokia is probably celebrating today.
    Bridge is about convenience. If MS can make it convenient to have the same OS on my phone/tablet/laptop, then they'll really have something. If I have to go through several steps to turn something on and configure something every time I want them to "talk" to each other, then they'll be about as good as basic tethering. Bridge is way more convenient and useful.
    06-19-12 08:22 AM
  19. lawguyman's Avatar
    Bridge is kinda pointless now with new wireless plans including a hotspots. Microsoft turned everything upside down.

    Nokia is probably celebrating today.
    Or Nokia is thinking:. We bet our company on you and now we have to compete with you in the Tablet space?
    06-19-12 08:24 AM
  20. lawguyman's Avatar
    All this protecting themselves is something you only read about in two places. WebOScentral and here. It doesn't make sense to anyone else but users of WebOS and BB devices.

    It makes far more sense to embrace Microsoft. Oh and their pro tablet will run any windows application you can think of. As they themselves announced.

    I'm not talking about them running the exact same OS either. I'm talking about the most seamless experience which in order as it stands now would be Microsoft, Apple and Google.
    What is the battery life on the Pro tablet? MS did not say. How much will the Pro tablet cost? MS did not say. What is the advantage of the Pro tablet over an Ultrabook?

    MS has not engineered the perfect solution here. In factn t refuses to commit to any one thing even though all the options that it is making available are incompatible and confusing to consumers.

    I bet that people within HP are saying "I told you so" about their WebOs strategy.
    sf49ers likes this.
    06-19-12 08:31 AM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    I bet that people within HP are saying "I told you so" about their WebOs strategy.
    If only we had stuck at it and thrown a few more billion down the bottomless pit called WebOS!
    06-19-12 09:25 AM
  22. glamrlama's Avatar
    Surface looks interesting to me. I already have a desktop for heavy computing. I use a PB for mobile computing when it killed my laptop 6 months ago. Choice is good for consumers and I am device agnostic; fanboyism is a useless activity. I will certainly look more closely when my PB needs replacing. My first impressions are it's HUGE and does not seem to be the form factor I would be looking for; I have not tried the interface but have read mixed reviews; what is the pricing structure and what about OS upgrades?
    06-19-12 09:28 AM
  23. polytope's Avatar
    A 10" tablet is NOT portable. I'd rather carry a 11" MacBook Air plus a PlayBook or BB10 phone.
    06-19-12 09:35 AM
  24. marksthespot60's Avatar
    RIM is at least 5 years from having an OS that could compete with Windows 7 on the desktop/Enterprise front, heck Apple's Mac OSX barely competes in that space, so really why would PC OEM's abandon Microsoft?

    Microsoft would be foolish to cut ties with other players, what this announcement does is tells Players like Dell, HP, Gateway, that they should stay out of the tablet space, Desktops/servers/ Notebooks they should remain focused on what they currently do, and possibly look for hardware partnerships to build other technology gadgets as assemblers more than designers.

    Microsoft NEEDS to get controls on their hardware for mobile, clearly relying on partners hasn't worked well as of late.
    But this is far from a time for RIM to reach out to even more unknown markets and over extend the reach of BB10.

    RIM's BB10 focus needs to be
    - Unification of the Mobile phone, and tablet experience. Making the integration between the 2 devices second to non!
    - Integration with the transportation sector, QNX Auto and BB10 need to be very friendly people get attached to their cars like they do their phones, if you play those relationships together you can build stronger brand loyalty

    RIM does not need to get into the low margin PC game, that is a shrinking market, not a growing one, they'd be better served in trying to secure MS Office on the phone/tablet space to help Microsoft keep a hold of document formats, than try and fight Microsoft in the hardware OE loyalty fight

    In terms of a browser, they're at the top, today. How much more do average consumers do with their computers these days?
    06-19-12 09:36 AM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    Wait... people are advocating RIM takes on microsoft on the desktop?


    If that is the case, I move this forum start doing random drug-tests.
    06-19-12 09:39 AM
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