02-14-13 09:59 AM
27 12
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  1. jackal0022's Avatar
    Hi everyone

    I'm at a loss - my employer in the last few days before the big launch is on the verge of eliminating the blackberry option (and we are a Canadian company!)

    I've tried to convince those around me that now is not the time to do this - I've appealed to our national pride, the securrity of blackberry and that from what I've ascertained most employees would prefer to use bb

    The main argument I have encounted is that since we have moved to Google this is the most cost effective option.

    I need a good solid argument from all facets to make one last ditch effort - anything that would make a great case....
    Last edited by jackal0022; 01-23-13 at 12:57 PM. Reason: spelling
    01-23-13 12:51 PM
  2. jackal0022's Avatar
    And I just realized I have just realized I have misspelt argument several times (I'm sooooooo mad!)
    bbmtna likes this.
    01-23-13 12:53 PM
  3. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    There will not be an iron clad argument....

    The trouble is, RIM took to long, for whatever the reason, to bring their new OS to market.

    No matter how good the OS is, its positions like your company and many others that will make RIM's climb back into a solid market share very long and very difficult.
    drum likes this.
    01-23-13 01:06 PM
  4. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    There will not be an iron clad argument....

    The trouble is, RIM took to long, for whatever the reason, to bring their new OS to market.

    No matter how good the OS is, its positions like your company and many others that will make RIM's climb back into a solid market share very long and very difficult.
    Maybe it's just me, but I really don't care how long RIM took to get BB10 out... "too long" who makes up this comment??? I want BB10 and its not a big problem to me about how long it took. Especially since there's only a week to go....

    The wait is almost over.
    01-23-13 01:10 PM
  5. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    Maybe it's just me, but I really don't care how long RIM took to get BB10 out... "too long" who makes up this comment??? I want BB10 and its not a big problem to me about how long it took. Especially since there's only a week to go....

    The wait is almost over.

    My statement was not meant to be argumentative.....

    If RIM skyrockets back to number 1 in smartphone marketshare, then no, they did not take too long. Otherwise, yes.... they dilly dallied for too long. And that's okay for a die hard BlackBerry fan to say.

    The fact is, when BlackBerry was THE phone to have, people started buying them "because they were the phone to have", not because they performed hours of research as to what their best option was.

    Those people are now buying iPhones.

    We die hards would just about sit around forever and wait for whatever RIM decided to do. The BlackBerry faithful.... or CrackBerries....

    As far as business practices go, revamping their OS to keep up with the competition was delayed to a point to where BlackBerry's are now viewed by most as old clunky useless business phones.

    There are people here who would defend their choice of phone as the best choice, the single best phone ever, what have you.. They're entitled to do so.

    My own company of over 10,000 employees is considering taking BlackBerry off of the approved phone list, leaving me with an iPhone when my 9930 gives up the ghost (never I hope). The more companies that choose to do this solidify the argument that RIM sat on it hands for too long. I'm not talking about Thor, I'm talking about the last three or four years of RIM, with little or none of the innovation that put them on the map, from a business practice perspective.

    A good business plan, BB10 should have been in R&D when the Storm was taken to market.
    ubizmo, kevinnugent and Drew808 like this.
    01-23-13 01:29 PM
  6. BaconMunch's Avatar
    BYOD: If You Think You're Saving Money, Think Again - CIO.com

    Month-to-month service costs + overages (remember droid/iOS devices consume more data and a lot of this heavy data is for personal use)
    undone likes this.
    01-23-13 01:53 PM
  7. jrohland's Avatar
    Let's say Spacely's Sprockets manufactures gizmos and a critical machine to make those gizmos is a widget stamper. The manufacturer of the Q-N-X widget stamper has announced the brand new model that uses the the well tested Q-N-X controller. The VP of purchasing ignores the pending announcement and orders a bunch of Dample widget stampers with a 7 year old controller. What will the president of Spacely's Sprockets thing of the VP of purchasing when she finds out a major competitor is 20% more productive because they are using the new Q-N-X widget stamper?
    01-23-13 01:58 PM
  8. SparkyBC's Avatar
    I suppose your company thinks android is a secure mobile platform too right?

    It's only going to take one major breach for companies to dummy up. Android has already been penetrated more than once. iOS is no better and have been breached many times.

    Just ask customers who's account we're racked up with purchases. Of course you rarely hear anything about apple on their forums because they are heavily moderated and never allow a post to tarnish their golden status as the saint.

    I know first and how apple deals with breaches your guilty and have to prove your innocent. The countdown is on till I can ditch my iPhone for work once an for all.
    01-23-13 02:00 PM
  9. Neely2005's Avatar
    Hi everyone

    I'm at a loss - my employer in the last few days before the big launch is on the verge of eliminating the blackberry option (and we are a Canadian company!)

    I've tried to convince those around me that now is not the time to do this - I've appealed to our national pride, the securrity of blackberry and that from what I've ascertained most employees would prefer to use bb

    The main argument I have encounted is that since we have moved to Google this is the most cost effective option.

    I need a good solid argument from all facets to make one last ditch effort - anything that would make a great case....
    Have your bosses read these 2 articles:

    RIM readies corporate users for new BlackBerry handsets - Technology & Science - CBC News

    BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 (BES 10) now available for download! | CrackBerry.com

    I think this quote should sell them on it:

    "RIM has been piloting BES 10 in many big enterprises, and the feedback has been extremely postive, as noted in the full press release below. The recently-announced trade-up program RIM recently announced is also important to highlight. Companies upgrading to BlackBerry 10 in 2013 will be able to trade in their current BES licenses for BES 10 ones at no charge."

    This really is the best of all worlds for them.
    01-23-13 03:17 PM
  10. southlander's Avatar
    If your company produces and carries sensitive information on handsets, security is a good argument. If not then at this point I am afraid there is no real "ironclad" argument you can make.

    If your company is Google centered then Android does fit the bill. (something I do not like about it, personally).
    01-23-13 03:22 PM
  11. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    My statement was not meant to be argumentative.....

    If RIM skyrockets back to number 1 in smartphone marketshare, then no, they did not take too long. Otherwise, yes.... they dilly dallied for too long. And that's okay for a die hard BlackBerry fan to say.

    The fact is, when BlackBerry was THE phone to have, people started buying them "because they were the phone to have", not because they performed hours of research as to what their best option was.

    Those people are now buying iPhones.

    We die hards would just about sit around forever and wait for whatever RIM decided to do. The BlackBerry faithful.... or CrackBerries....

    As far as business practices go, revamping their OS to keep up with the competition was delayed to a point to where BlackBerry's are now viewed by most as old clunky useless business phones.

    There are people here who would defend their choice of phone as the best choice, the single best phone ever, what have you.. They're entitled to do so.

    My own company of over 10,000 employees is considering taking BlackBerry off of the approved phone list, leaving me with an iPhone when my 9930 gives up the ghost (never I hope). The more companies that choose to do this solidify the argument that RIM sat on it hands for too long. I'm not talking about Thor, I'm talking about the last three or four years of RIM, with little or none of the innovation that put them on the map, from a business practice perspective.

    A good business plan, BB10 should have been in R&D when the Storm was taken to market.
    I'm not trying to be argumentative either, but I still don't get why a company would stop purchasing a platform "because RIM sat on its hands too long" or "delayed revamping the OS". Those sound like consumer reasons for leaving a platform, which are still kind of lame.

    I mean, I can get that people want better hardware or software or apps, but not that it took RIM too long or the OS wasn't revamped.... I can't understand who buys a phone platform on that basis.
    Last edited by TequilaAddict; 01-23-13 at 03:51 PM.
    01-23-13 03:39 PM
  12. darkehawke's Avatar
    I'm not trying to be argumentative either, but I still don't get why a company would stop purchasing a platform "because RIM sat on its hands too long" or "delayed revamping the OS". Those sound like consumer reasons for leaving a platform, which are still kind of lame.

    I mean, I can get that people want better hardware or software or apps, but not that it too RIM too long or the OS wasn't revamped.... I can't understand who buys a phone platform on that basis.
    despite popular belief, the vast majority of the market, enterprise and consumer, still dont have any idea of what is involved with BB10.
    01-23-13 03:41 PM
  13. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Hi everyone

    I'm at a loss - my employer in the last few days before the big launch is on the verge of eliminating the blackberry option (and we are a Canadian company!)

    I've tried to convince those around me that now is not the time to do this - I've appealed to our national pride, the securrity of blackberry and that from what I've ascertained most employees would prefer to use bb

    The main argument I have encounted is that since we have moved to Google this is the most cost effective option.

    I need a good solid argument from all facets to make one last ditch effort - anything that would make a great case....
    Is it possible to put IT policies on Android phones? (I really don't know, so if everyone else does, please forgive me)
    01-23-13 03:55 PM
  14. whitbags's Avatar
    Samsung GS3 is FIPS certified
    01-23-13 04:22 PM
  15. dd3's Avatar
    how about fact bb10 will run android apps as well as have full security and management/policy controls with balance for private data vs corporate data protection (so people can do BYOD securely) and they can have their own corporate app world to publish apps and manage software updates/deployments....company can have the best of all worlds....let the user have the device they choose and use BES10 to support all devices.
    01-23-13 04:30 PM
  16. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Samsung GS3 is FIPS certified
    GS3 or GS2?
    01-23-13 04:31 PM
  17. whitbags's Avatar
    GS3 or GS2?
    Both. I just mentioned the latter as it is the current flagship device.
    01-25-13 12:30 AM
  18. helis4life's Avatar
    All I can suggest is that these decisions in companies dont usually happen over night and that being said I would imagine the decision to move away from BB was made several months ago, Its probably already been factored in to this years budget forecasts. I think your just going to have to wait

    The companies that are about to jump ship to a new product or BYOD will still do so Id imagine. Its too late for them to rip up the brakes and change course. But if BB10 devices prove themselves in the market I think perhaps companies that once used BB might have another look
    01-25-13 12:50 AM
  19. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Is it possible to put IT policies on Android phones? (I really don't know, so if everyone else does, please forgive me)
    Yes, it is possible.
    01-25-13 03:16 AM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Both. I just mentioned the latter as it is the current flagship device.
    The SG3 has been certified too?
    01-25-13 03:57 AM
  21. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    I'm not trying to be argumentative either, but I still don't get why a company would stop purchasing a platform "because RIM sat on its hands too long" or "delayed revamping the OS". Those sound like consumer reasons for leaving a platform, which are still kind of lame.

    I mean, I can get that people want better hardware or software or apps, but not that it took RIM too long or the OS wasn't revamped.... I can't understand who buys a phone platform on that basis.

    Consumer and enterprise are not mutually exclusive. The enterprise market grew RIM from infancy to a point where the consumer market recognized and starting buying BlackBerry's as "the phone to have" instead of Palm and Windows CE. You didn't really see the BlackBerry in the consumer market until 7000 and 8000 series phones came out. That was a direct result of 6 or 7 years of growth serving the enterprise world. Enterprise put them on the map, but now what?

    RIM failed to adequately respond to the consumer market, and when the iPhone came out followed by Android, what little inroads RIM had in the consumer market were quickly eroded (and poor products like the Storm didn't help). Their continued lack of a strong response to the consumer field, over time, had a negative impact on the enterprise market for two reasons. The competition having conquered the consumer market started making in-roads in the enterprise world based on their success. Soon employees start requesting non-BlackBerry phones from their employers, and it grows from their. You can think of big giant companies as communist iron fisted do as I saw dictatorships, but ultimately they really do want satisfied employees if they want a competitive workforce.

    Treating Enterprise and Consumer as mutually exclusive is a falsehood. Think about the rise and fall of Nextel..... People do both, and don't want to carry two phones, so Enterprise and Consumer inherently overlap. If your company is going to pay for a phone, are you going to pay attention to one you hate and don't want to use.

    All kinds of industries have to appeal to both. The airlines, car rental companies, landscaping..... Think of Enterprise as recurring revenue. Meaning monthly cash flow (cover your overhead costs). Think of Consumer as pure profit (think of what people pay for Apple products)

    Here is an example. UPS is able to pay all their overhead costs with overnight shipping. Everything else is profit. While not exclusively, its mostly business sending things overnight, and Ebayer's or grandma and grandpas sending their grandchildren goodies on ground. While this is over simplified, it goes to show how strong companies are able to capitalize on both enterprise and consumer.

    I work in the security industry, and they are all but removing BlackBerry from the approved device list for us with phones. And if the biggest commercial security company believes they can secure an iPhone, I'm pretty sure its been secured. If that's the case, and everyone is requesting iPhones, that tells me RIM squandered its cash cow, and did not keep pace with its competition.

    Doesn't mean that hearts and minds cannot be changed, but BlackBerry 10 is in my book 1.5 to 2 years late hitting market. They should have been in R&D 4 to 5 years ago.
    01-25-13 12:35 PM
  22. SixStringMadness's Avatar
    Samsung GS3 is FIPS certified

    FIPS what? there are multiple certifications
    01-25-13 12:44 PM
  23. lorax1284's Avatar
    I'm at a loss - my employer in the last few days before the big launch is on the verge of eliminating the blackberry option (and we are a Canadian company!)
    I'm not sure I understand: you have the option to choose BB or iOS or Android device, and have the device and / or service paid for by your employer, and your employer is disallowing RIM brand devices now?

    I've tried to convince those around me that now is not the time to do this - I've appealed to our national pride, the security of blackberry and that from what I've ascertained most employees would prefer to use bb
    I guess it doesn't matter, but is that BB10 or BB7 or just "a RIM product"?

    The main argument I have encounted is that since we have moved to Google this is the most cost effective option.
    I'm not sure what "Moved to Google" means. Your corporate email is now "@gmail.com" email addresses? Whatever it means, I don't believe it is more cost effective unless you can get zero dollar devices or lower rate plans or shorter lock-in terms, and / or there are platform-specific apps needed to run your business, things that Android gives you that RIM / BB does not.

    I need a good solid argument from all facets to make one last ditch effort - anything that would make a great case....
    Sounds like whomever made this decision is a bit of a "fandroid"... how do they imagine there will be cost savings with Android devices? There's nothing inherently superior to, say, GMail on an Android vs. GMail on an iOS device, and GMail on a highly HTML5-compliant browser like that of BB10 devices... so is the "savings" supposed to come from ditching an internal email server and the management of that overhead in favour of "@gmail.com" email addresses? And is there some kind of presumed "well, our email is google, and Android is by google, so it's bound to be cheaper and better, isn't it?" assumptive "reasoning" going on?

    How 'committed' is he / she to disallowing BB devices? I don't know what to say to people who have made up their mind in this manner based on rather weak data. Candidly and not disrespectfully, are you angling to "shame" them into relenting by blowing holes in their decision points, or making such a convincing argument that an otherwise firm decision should be overturned in favour of reconsidering allowing BB10 devices?

    I think you might upset your boss by doing this, if they're willing to make a decision on such lightweight benefits... if they lose face, you might just lose some favour with them.
    01-25-13 12:57 PM
  24. westcoastit's Avatar
    I'm not sure what "Moved to Google" means. Your corporate email is now "@gmail.com" email addresses? Whatever it means, I don't believe it is more cost effective unless you can get zero dollar devices or lower rate plans or shorter lock-in terms, and / or there are platform-specific apps needed to run your business, things that Android gives you that RIM / BB does not.
    Google Apps for Business provides a hosted email solution that use your own domain name. Instead of ActiveSync they use GoogleSync which is pretty much the same thing as far as features go -- you can set a few basic policies like password length and strength, time-to-lock, and remotely wipe devices. In order to do this with BB phones (current generation) you require a BES server as no BB phones support ActiveSync.
    01-25-13 01:24 PM
  25. jackal0022's Avatar
    Thanks for your questions and answers - you are on the right track

    we have BBs now but they are phasing them out - as I understand it the BES server is dismantled (if that makes sense) - our phones are paid for by our employer - the only choice presented to us thus far is android when we refresh our phones

    You hit the nail on the head with the assumption of the server - its simply to be rid of the management of it as I understand it - we use google apps for business (as westcoastit surmised) and so we have our own domain name)

    The fandroid reference is apt - the decision was made in isolation and the CEO is willing to explore this option, as are others in senior management - my intent is really for the following reasons:

    1) the vast majority of our staff prefer bb
    2) security is essential for our business
    3) Canadian pride

    In terms of it being a firm decision it would appear that there is still opportunity for discussion as many staff are waiting to see what the department decides - the executive is open to us continuing to use BB but there seems to be a sense of cost savings - however it would appear the costs for the plans of android devices are more expensive...

    Here are a couple questions still outstanding....

    Is the BES necessary for BB10 - can a company at least pilot without?
    I believe that the new enterprise solution is not backwards compatible - is that correct?
    Is the cost for the enterprise solution by phone or is it a range?

    Thanks for your help thus far
    01-31-13 10:14 AM
27 12

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