1. brian_peterson's Avatar
    I have been around the BlackBerry community for a while. I develop Applications at work for Windows Mobile. I have access to any Smartphone I want to play with. Now without further ado the things RIM needs to do to keep in the game.

    For RIM to stay competitive they need to do 5 simple things:

    1) Fix their browser with a fast WebKit engine
    2) Add OpenGL ES
    3) Allow apps to install on the memory card
    4) Create a UI designer for developers so they can quickly develop apps
    5) Support for Exchange ActiveSync (BES, BPS won't cut it for small businesses they want a zero server software install, all other smart phones deliver this).

    Now for all those people who say "they need to chuck the whole OS" you need to just stop gassing. People keep saying "Java is so slow and old"... I got news for them all apps for Droid / Android are written in Java. So why are their more apps for Droid? UI Designer. Google understands that most developers suck at UI design, and it's very hard to visualize the JavaDocs into an actual working UI. Developers are good at hooking up the back-end and not pixel placing logic.

    Also, OpenGL ES can be easily added (there are Java open source implementations already). They don't need to re-invent the wheel. The Storm 1 and 2 hardware are screaming for this API (once they do that the 3D accelerator just sitting there will sing). They need to do this while allowing for Apps to be installed on the memory card (Large 3D games do us no good without storage). They also need to allow multiple sounds to play at once (kinda sad we can't do that yet). If they do this the games will start to flow. Believe me alot of game companies will do ports of all their 3D games quickly and throw them up on App world.

    Without high end 3D games they will struggle. Just like Apple did in the 90's and the PC gaming industry drove hardware and software innovation. Apple understands this mistake... Thus they support OpenGL ES.

    Now for ActiveSync... I think my bullet point is enough. Small business will not tolerate needing to install a server side piece of software when every other smartphone implements ActiveSync and gets them wireless email, calender and contacts. Yeah yeah not true push... But shut up it does not matter anymore. Large business will be interested in BES. Small business will just tell their employees to go iPhone, Symbian, Android, and Windows Mobile. RIM you need to loosen up a bit on the BES server obsession. It will kill you! This is the only one I am afraid RIM won't do. They don't do this... They won't be around much longer. Mark my words.

    Now for the Web Browser. This is the single biggest problem for RIM. Everyone at RIM gets this one. That's a good thing. I expect by summer they will have a WebKit browser that works really well, and maybe not as good as the iPhone, but it will be good enough to compete.

    If RIM does these 5 simple things they will keep on this amazing ride with consumers that started with the Pearl. Everyone underestimated RIM when the Pearl came out... Now look where they are!

    I own a Storm2 and it's a great device. The UI is quick and clean. It has nice transitions. It's stable. It is a great looking device (I can't say that for the Motorola Droid). I love the Storm2... I loved my Storm 1... I fully expect RIM to fix these things....

    But the Browser by far is their most dangerous sticking point. Opera Mini can only keep them going for so long!

    That's it! They will keep or grow their 52% (as of Aug 2009) market share in the US!

    RIM message me if you agree. If you want to hire me... I don't know about living in Canada... Hmmmmm..... Lol...!
    11-02-09 08:53 PM
  2. Storm2's Avatar
    I think they are working on 1, 2.

    3 is impossible for now, due to security issues. Think of why windows powered gps is so breakable.

    4, you can write web gadget now using any web ui designer. There is also plug-in for visual studio, that you can use to design apps UI using VS built in UI designer.

    5, this is also impossible, but RIM can open up the push API for open source BES server.
    11-02-09 08:57 PM
  3. mr.s4ndm4n's Avatar
    AGREED!

    10 char
    11-02-09 08:57 PM
  4. brian_peterson's Avatar
    All other devices allow for apps on the memory card or like Apple put it all on a massive memory card (apps and data).

    Also the Visual Studio designer sucks because it's creating VB-Like MDS apps and you can't create very custom looking UI's... The Web gadgets are a good step for gadgets... But not full-blown content rich apps. We need to use the full JAVA API...

    Also, I know people are obsessed with BES... But RIM needs to just give it up and give an option for small businesses. I know so many small businesses that like the BlackBerry idea but then in the end just get lazy and have people get a Windows Mobile, or iPhone. IT are inherently lazy (I know I have worked in IT) and won't install server software if they don't have to.
    11-02-09 09:02 PM
  5. Sooks's Avatar
    i think after dev con , you will be removing atleast 3/4 of thoes
    11-02-09 09:05 PM
  6. brian_peterson's Avatar
    I hope so!
    11-02-09 09:09 PM
  7. Storm2's Avatar
    All other devices allow for apps on the memory card or like Apple put it all on a massive memory card (apps and data).

    Also the Visual Studio designer sucks because it's creating VB-Like MDS apps and you can't create very custom looking UI's... The Web gadgets are a good step for gadgets... But not full-blown content rich apps. We need to use the full JAVA API...

    Also, I know people are obsessed with BES... But RIM needs to just give it up and give an option for small businesses. I know so many small businesses that like the BlackBerry idea but then in the end just get lazy and have people get a Windows Mobile, or iPhone. IT are inherently lazy (I know I have worked in IT) and won't install server software if they don't have too.
    That's why Apple has Jailbreak... and some what like 80% pirate sw running on their phones, which is probably why it is so popular.
    I agree the VS plug-in sucks, I just wanted to point out the option you have. I think a UI designer is likely to come, but I think web gadget with powerful internal APIs will be the best approach.
    Well, ActiveSync is only exchange... I don't even want to go there and debate on why or why not. I saw your other post on this one already. An open BES will be the best comprise from my point of view.
    11-02-09 09:15 PM
  8. Ponderous's Avatar
    Well said Brian. +100 karma. Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-02-09 09:23 PM
  9. Mtkalimey's Avatar
    The only problem with BES is that it needs it's own server or at least a virtualized server.
    The cost of the BB software amounts to $100 per phone implemented.
    In the real world this is quite expensive for a small company to start up, especially when you add in the cost of hardware and IT time to implement this. The last quote my company got was about $3500.00 to put 4 phones on a BES. That was using the Blackberry Professional Software. This is partly due to the fact that BES uses SQL and with Windows Small Business Server, the SQL is only 2 databases and in our case we would have needed a third.
    I am a BB user and have no inclination to change so I use BIS. But as the economy improves I hope to get the company to implement a BES.
    11-02-09 09:34 PM
  10. brian_peterson's Avatar
    Lol Ponderous I just wanted to get down in writing what I felt RIM needed to do. I am tired of people saying chuck the whole thing out or Java is slow... I think there are a few very pointed things RIM can do to position themselves well.

    We also forget in North America RIM is the standard bearer. Alot of people get stuck in thinking Apple is the leader. You can argue they are the leader in innovation (although you will have arguments from me and others). But the facts are the facts RIM is on top... So to continue to be the market leader they need to move! It's hard to stay on top forever...

    I know the numbers frost Apple users.
    11-02-09 09:39 PM
  11. o0stryxs0o's Avatar
    Finally someone who knows the truth! RIM is the forerunner, everyone else is trying to play catch up, but some are getting close to straight passing Rim. They have to get on their game quick! I think they are stepping up they just need to get all their ducks in a row here!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 02:49 AM
  12. dchawk81's Avatar
    I'm not a tech so this is likely a stupid question but wouldn't the elimination of BIS kill the push services and therefore eliminate the reason people choose BB in the first place?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 03:02 AM
  13. o0stryxs0o's Avatar
    I'm not a tech so this is likely a stupid question but wouldn't the elimination of BIS kill the push services and therefore eliminate the reason people choose BB in the first place?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    He was referring to BES. They need to incorporate active sync he's right they need to loosen up a bit on that. They don't have a choice its convenient for small business who don't want to shell out the money for more of a system just to run BES on. Its not real push like he said , but they were going to go with a not true push system anyway. Also they have the coice of switching over to BES if they get to the point that they need it. Rim doesn't have a ton of options here. I will say they also do need to update their email viewing system its outdated and needs to change I think its next on the chopping block though because they just changed texting to something beautiful! Threaded Texting FTW!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 03:10 AM
  14. dchawk81's Avatar
    Oh he was saying eliminate BES as we know it. Thanks for clearing that up. I don't have any experience with BES so I don't know any of the pros and cons.

    I agree with most of the other points. Html view in email is bad and we need folders. The browser doesn't bother me display-wise because it is indeed a small screen BUT even this WAP forum takes longer to load than it should.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 03:23 AM
  15. Pete6's Avatar
    The only thing oi disagree with is puTting apps on the Media Card. A better way would be to increase internal memory a lot. This would still allow RIM to keep the high security they have today and to also limit the total size of installed apps. This would keep the phone's performance reasonable.

    When installing large apps, there is no reason why data and resource files should not be stored on the Media Card just not the app.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 03:58 AM
  16. cavingjan's Avatar
    Anything that compromises security will be a no go. Installing apps to the card can cause that. We've seen that already on WinMob and PalmOS.

    You as the app builder should be able to install some of your support files (textures, large databases, etc) to the card. Just realize the performance hit you will take for doing so. You will have to account for slow Class 2 cards. I remember on the PalmOS, we would cache the data in memory and then delete it when you closed out of the app. Unfortunately it was a long start period. But was needed to keep consistent, speedy apps.
    11-03-09 07:14 AM
  17. ekyle125's Avatar
    The only thing oi disagree with is puTting apps on the Media Card. A better way would be to increase internal memory a lot. This would still allow RIM to keep the high security they have today and to also limit the total size of installed apps. This would keep the phone's performance reasonable.

    When installing large apps, there is no reason why data and resource files should not be stored on the Media Card just not the app.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    it looks like the newer models like the S2 and the Tour have A LOT more available memory for apps. I am looking forward to my next upgrade so I can up that spec a bit.
    11-03-09 07:21 AM
  18. Radius's Avatar
    Apps should never go on the memory card, that just opens up all kinds of security issues.

    And thi sis not a gaming platform, get a DS or PSP. I really don't want to see a rash of battery draining games out anytime soon. There's really no point.

    As for application development, it's already easy if you have the proper tools. Go buy a copy of MSVC Pro, it's only a few hundred, and you've got yourself a fully functional professional environment. It's all I use theses days.
    11-03-09 09:25 AM
  19. Pete6's Avatar
    Unlike a PC which has a hard disk (or something) for static storage and live memory to run thnigs from and asa scratchpad (swap file), the Blackbery only has Device Memory. The OS architcture is fundamentally different at this point. COnsequently it would seem that the more Device Memory you put in, the more the CPU gets loded as it tries to manage it all. This is, of course, before you actually run anything.

    Lots of memory would seem, at first, a desirable goal but the more you put in, the more work the CPU has to do (the exact reverse of a PC which see memory as fast storage and the disk as slow). All memory may be looked at as being similar to a long piece of string with knots in it that is pulled upwards to its full length. The CPU scampers up and down the knots (adresses) and reads or writes accordingly.

    On a BlackBerry, the same thing happens BUT, here we have all the installed programs stored as well so the poor CPU has to skip chunks (knots and adresses) while it looks for the address it needs next.

    The more memory in this crcumstance, the more jumping around the CPU has to do in order to find the next needed address.

    This is a much simplified picture but you get the idea.

    If hpwever you write your app so as to keep only a small executable part in memory and then keep the data, resource, sound and graphics files on the memory card (slow memory compared to Device Memory) then you unload the COU a bit but slow down the phone whille the phone CPU access the slow Media Card.

    A major drawback of all SD cards (microSDs included) are that they are only 4 bit access. A single typed character (a byte) is 8 bits. Thus for each byte needed, the phone has to get it in two hits. Sloooow.

    It would seem that we are doomed to a bounded device for some time.
    11-03-09 10:30 AM
  20. Radius's Avatar
    Unlike a PC which has a hard disk (or something) for static storage and live memory to run thnigs from and asa scratchpad (swap file), the Blackbery only has Device Memory. The OS architcture is fundamentally different at this point. COnsequently it would seem that the more Device Memory you put in, the more the CPU gets loded as it tries to manage it all. This is, of course, before you actually run anything.

    Lots of memory would seem, at first, a desirable goal but the more you put in, the more work the CPU has to do (the exact reverse of a PC which see memory as fast storage and the disk as slow). All memory may be looked at as being similar to a long piece of string with knots in it that is pulled upwards to its full length. The CPU scampers up and down the knots (adresses) and reads or writes accordingly.

    On a BlackBerry, the same thing happens BUT, here we have all the installed programs stored as well so the poor CPU has to skip chunks (knots and adresses) while it looks for the address it needs next.

    The more memory in this crcumstance, the more jumping around the CPU has to do in order to find the next needed address.

    This is a much simplified picture but you get the idea.

    If hpwever you write your app so as to keep only a small executable part in memory and then keep the data, resource, sound and graphics files on the memory card (slow memory compared to Device Memory) then you unload the COU a bit but slow down the phone whille the phone CPU access the slow Media Card.

    A major drawback of all SD cards (microSDs included) are that they are only 4 bit access. A single typed character (a byte) is 8 bits. Thus for each byte needed, the phone has to get it in two hits. Sloooow.

    It would seem that we are doomed to a bounded device for some time.
    And the unfortunate part of NAND memory like is used in the BB internal storage for apps is it's actually 12 bits, not 8. That adds some processing overhead as they need that for error checking.

    Also your string analogy is correct to a point, but access time is not really restricted at all. It's exactly the same on the PC except there is a mix of internal and external accesses. Internal to on dye CPU RAM and external to the NAND memory.

    Internal to RAM is faster than even PC access times, it always is for on board memory. As for accessing the external memory, reads are slower but not by much. Memory isn't actually linear from a CPU point of view. Accessing element 0, and then moving to element 1 is exactly the same speed as reading element 0 and then reading element 1000.

    Every time an address is read the data and address buses are toggled and the chip enable is flipped and the read pin is asserted. We then get the data.

    So the point anyhow is that there is going to be an allocation table, so the BB won't be scanning all of memory for one app or file. It will read the address and be there in an instant. All faster than a PC as the PC has to scan a slow as heck hard drive whereas the BB gets solid state speeds and the access times that come with that.

    I know, long winded, but I hope people can get a bit out of it if I over explain it.
    11-03-09 10:41 AM
  21. bmjones17's Avatar
    Actually on the storm 2 or maybe just the 328 software you have the option to save any app from blackberry world on the card by archiving it. In other words if you want to keep some apps on your phone that you don't use alot, but on occasion you need it, it will archive it on the card for a rainy day.

    I think the most horrid thing on the blackberry is that you can't go to your computer and sync the phone with a damn gmail yahoo hotmail or what ever web based email account you have. It's SAD!!!! With a capitol finger. I guarantee most people that have tried a Berry and hated it was because they couldn't get their contacts synced with outlook and there emails. I despise outlook

    One last thing, let's all remember that this is a phone. Most blackberry users are using these phones for business features not games. Browser definitely needs to catch up. But i and I believe most Crackberrians don't really care about the the games issue as much as being able to use the apps we want.

    I
    Last edited by bmjones17; 11-04-09 at 11:47 PM.
    11-04-09 11:38 PM
  22. dchawk81's Avatar
    A major drawback of all SD cards (microSDs included) are that they are only 4 bit access. A single typed character (a byte) is 8 bits. Thus for each byte needed, the phone has to get it in two hits. Sloooow.
    That doesn't make sense. If they're truly slow, why can my camera write to an SD card at a rate of over 8MB per second? My camera is actually the weak link in this scenario. There are faster cameras now writing to the same cards at higher rates of speed.

    Also, if SD cards are that slow, why are they being used as SSDs in laptops and other data-intensive devices?

    If you're right about it being a 4bit process, then the lack of speed HAS to be the fault of the phone, not the card.
    Last edited by dchawk81; 11-04-09 at 11:49 PM.
    11-04-09 11:43 PM
  23. BewitchedWitch21's Avatar
    I am an avid BB fan; absolutely love BB and have for a long time. I actually got to use the Droid for awhile today. That phone is absolutely incredible. I honestly can say it really had me seriously debating switching; it just ran so smoothly and was easy to use and a really fun device to use.

    I think BB's are great for many reasons, but for being such a "leader" in the industry, it seems like in certain areas, BB's just fall flat on their face.
    11-05-09 12:52 AM
  24. nobius's Avatar
    I hate having to reboot after every minor app update. It's also rediculous that it takes 2-3x as long to reboot my BlackBerry as it does to reboot my Mac.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 01:11 AM
  25. bbconvert's Avatar
    Activesync support is crucial imo. Below are 2 excerpts from an article dated 11/6/09 that states why it is so important:

    "I'd prefer all our users be on a Windows Mobile device because it integrates the best with Exchange," Schafer says. "But at the same time I would much rather have an employee go out get an iPhone than a BlackBerry because an iPhone uses ActiveSync and therefore costs us nothing, and a BlackBerry costs us money."

    "RIM requires that you pay for a license for the BlackBerry servers," says Steven Schafer, Director of Network Services at Global Crossing. "You pay a license for every BlackBerry user that you have connected, and then you also pay for support and maintenance for the servers and users."

    Read more: Why I'm Using Exchange 2010 to Say Bye-Bye BlackBerry

    I work for a global company (180,000+ employees) who has the same policy as the company in the above excerpt for some of the same reasons. Since upgrading to Exchange 2007 recently they have blocked access to corporate email via BIS because it is a violation of corporate policy (you have to provide username/pword to third party). So anyone with a Blackberry is now SOL. They are also "encouraging" all employees to buy an iphone or winmo device if they would like to have access to corporate email from their phones. Personally, I love my Blackberry, but the Droid looks like it will meet my needs of accessing corporate email from my phone. I'm strongly considering picking up a Droid in the near future.

    I've tried both NotifySync and Astrasync and didn't really like either (lack of html email support, separate email client, etc...). Though I suppose that could change with future releases, but still, activesync support on an iphone or even the new Droid is free so why should someone pay for a 3rd party app to enable activesync support?

    I agree with the OP. If RIM doesn't address issues like these they'll start to lose the business market over time. That's just my opinion. I could certainly be wrong though.
    11-07-09 10:26 PM
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