03-14-17 04:44 AM
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  1. ray689's Avatar
    Interesting POVs one sees on this site.

    Apple has always cooperated with lawful warrants. Apple contended the FBI request in the San Bernardino case was not lawful so refused using a number of legal arguments. That is the right of anyone, with the understanding that such an issue may then be escalated up the judicial chain. Had the FBI done so and had it gotten up to SCOTUS and ruled against Apple as being indeed lawful, then Apple has to comply or face contempt.

    As for breaking into the phones, the technique used was one that encryption experts were saying all along would likely be the best way.
    So what part of the request was unlawful exactly? And they actually were going too take it to the courts then the FBI ended up dropping it since they were able to get into the phone without Apple's help.
    Last edited by ray689; 12-26-16 at 10:32 PM.
    12-26-16 09:00 PM
  2. YesAndNo's Avatar
    BB10 is top security period.

    Posted via CB10
    12-26-16 10:57 PM
  3. FF22's Avatar
    Well, Apple was not willing to help the FBI break into a phone or provide the tools. BB has supposedly aided law enforcement. Which phone is more secure? For what purpose? Who is "law enforcement?"

    edited to add: whoops seems like this may have been discussed further in the thread but I replied before reading that far.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-26-16 11:41 PM
  4. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    How is it possible that Apple is more secure than BlackBerry? Someone that I know that works in IT said this to me, but I didn't bother probe and ask him the reasons why. I know he has more experience working in IT than I do, working in a totally unrelated field, but what he says is probably based on some reasonable grounds. So how is it possible then? I always believed BlackBerry to be the gold standard when it came to security?

    Posted via CB10
    For Assurance re: Mobile Device Security I suggest you look at International Security Certifications: eg FIPS 140-2, CPA/CAPS, NATO Restricted, as opposed to any individual's opinion.

    When organisations such as 1st world governments & NATO start using non-BlackBerry products for Official-Sensitive (and higher) Mobile Messaging then you can assume that these non-Blackberry products are as secure as BlackBerry (no guarantee that they are more secure). These organisations have been hoping for an alternative to BlackBerry for years (eg they don't want all their eggs in one basket, especially if they thought that this basket was probably going out of business...) yet they are still BlackBerry users for anything sensitive (eg messaging that is more sensitive than "the coffee machine has been fixed" or "the car park is closed on Tuesday for building work").

    The above is a gross simplification of Mobile Device Security (multiple types of products are used in the mobile messaging ecosystem/chain, weakest link in the chain, etc), but hopefully a good starter-for-ten...

    BTW - I have always believed that the very public FBI/Apple protestations re: iOS security were at least 90% made up.... (Fret: thanks for the edit of this sentence!)

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by BigAl_BB9900; 12-27-16 at 05:07 AM. Reason: typos etc
    12-27-16 04:24 AM
  5. Zeratul57's Avatar
    PURE BS. IT people hate anything to do with the hardware of a computer. A printer even more! IT people don't like to go onsite. IT people want to warm a comfortable chair and do as little as possible!

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    12-27-16 07:46 AM
  6. anon(5597702)'s Avatar
    How is it possible that Apple is more secure than BlackBerry? Someone that I know that works in IT said this to me, but I didn't bother probe and ask him the reasons why. I know he has more experience working in IT than I do, working in a totally unrelated field, but what he says is probably based on some reasonable grounds. So how is it possible then? I always believed BlackBerry to be the gold standard when it came to security?

    Posted via CB10
    Is this IT specialist more of a website administrator?
    12-27-16 07:55 AM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    Well, Apple was not willing to help the FBI break into a phone or provide the tools. BB has supposedly aided law enforcement. Which phone is more secure? For what purpose? Who is "law enforcement?"

    edited to add: whoops seems like this may have been discussed further in the thread but I replied before reading that far.
    Apple has helped law enforcement many times and it's all documented.
    12-27-16 08:16 AM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BB10 is top security period.

    Posted via CB10
    BB10 is dead.... There are no new devices and the ones there are won't be for sale much longer, so at this point most all IT departments have got to move on to a viable device roadmap for replacements and upgrades.

    But do they stick with BlackBerry and their move to Android and generic Chinese made devices that may or may not be released by carriers? Or do they go with a solution that is a known factor?

    Apple might not be the most secure in some ways (FBI could hack it), but in other ways (form factor, updates, future) it is much more secure than sticking with BlackBerry and the unknown.
    12-27-16 09:38 AM
  9. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    PURE BS. IT people hate anything to do with the hardware of a computer. A printer even more! IT people don't like to go onsite. IT people want to warm a comfortable chair and do as little as possible!

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    You've perfectly described the IT guy at my company
    12-27-16 09:44 AM
  10. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    PURE BS. IT people hate anything to do with the hardware of a computer. A printer even more! IT people don't like to go onsite. IT people want to warm a comfortable chair and do as little as possible!

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    There is more than a grain of truth to this.
    12-27-16 10:48 AM
  11. bbnrs's Avatar
    They beauty (?) of the assertion is nothing is questioned only accepted by the listener as the ultimate truth. This is is relevant to the IT person as well as national politics.
    12-27-16 11:15 AM
  12. Gayle Lynn's Avatar
    I was and loved to get out of office, visit, get fresh air and fresh perspective. Too much over simplifying and putting ppl into preconceived boxes.

    Too much kool-aide kids. Whether Apple fan boys or others come across as cult of us vs them.

    Wasn't the 5c unlike case anyway and was not users personal phone but work and most data can be gleaned from cell tower locations and metadata.

    Also icloud is not secure even today.
    12-27-16 01:10 PM
  13. hec666's Avatar
    PURE BS. IT people hate anything to do with the hardware of a computer. A printer even more! IT people don't like to go onsite. IT people want to warm a comfortable chair and do as little as possible!

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    I disagree on your statement that IT folks want do as little as possible. What I can tell you from experience as a Senior IT Engineer is that if your speaking with some one who is specialized in any of the many technology fields, they have paid their dues and have gotten to where they are by hard work and long hours, and want to focus on technology; not talk to an end user who doesn't understand what they are doing with the technology that has been implemented. In most case security is implemented to protect the business from risk that most of the time is caused by people who don't have a clue nor want to understand on how to use it as it was intended.
    And as to going on site well that is something that is seldom needed. And that is why any well implemented IT department should have on site folks to take care of any issue that cannot be dealt with remotely .

    Posted via CB10
    12-27-16 01:17 PM
  14. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Right. A bull**** publicity stunt (as it's documented that they consistently cooperate with law enforcement) which back fired when a 3rd party hacked the phones in a couple days.
    But I believe the POV from Apple was that if they gave away the key then NO APPLE device would have been secure to the masses. They would be like open books to anyone who knew anything about hacking. I think that for Apple to survive (and there are a LOT of American jobs on the line too don't forget), they should not be forced to give the key to the golden city away.

    And it is obvious that they found NOTHING on that San Bernadino Iphone 5C because if they did it would have been all over the news by now.

    I remember At the time right after the California incident I believe it was Conan, he had Steve Wozniak on as a guest and Steve mentioned that one time he wrote a code that he could have entered and it was so dangerous it could have destroyed the company if he wanted it to. He was "so afraid" of it that as soon as he wrote it, he destroyed it!

    That vid would be easy to find on Youtube....

    -sent from a beautiful Bold 9900
    12-27-16 02:01 PM
  15. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Right. A bull**** publicity stunt (as it's documented that they consistently cooperate with law enforcement) which back fired when a 3rd party hacked the phones in a couple days.
    Here is the interview and it is important what was said because all the phone records were also given from the phone company to the FBI and there were absolutely NO links to terrorism on that iPhone. So I think the FBI just wanted an excuse to have that back door key for everybody!

    12-27-16 02:10 PM
  16. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    But I believe the POV from Apple was that if they gave away the key then NO APPLE device would have been secure to the masses.
    They didn't even have a key. They would have needed to create a custom version of iOS to circumvent security features that are built-in to the existing version. With newer iPhones, they wouldn't even be able to do that without destroying the user data on the phone.
    TGR1 and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    12-27-16 02:21 PM
  17. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    They didn't even have a key. They would have needed to create a custom version of iOS to circumvent security features that are built-in to the existing version. With newer iPhones, they wouldn't even be able to do that without destroying the user data on the phone.
    Yeah Woz said they don't even have a key, that's right.

    I remember all the panic over the Touch ID fingerprint scanner on the 5S, people thought Apple would sell or give everyone's fingerprints to the FBI and Apple had to calm people down and reassure them that the print does not leave the device, it only goes as far as the chip inside it. Apple never sees it, similar to the info for using Apple Pay.

    Edit:I remember hearing on the news that the FBI hired about 10 hackers to finally break the passcode on that iPhone 5C and they were paid quite well. But it wasn't that easy. But nor do I think backdoors should be given if it puts EVERYONES security at risk. Don't forget other countries like China and Russia would LOVE to have access and every government worker that uses an iPhone would lose sensitive data as well.
    12-27-16 02:40 PM
  18. chain13's Avatar
    Secure is not about the phone only. It's about networks that connect all of your services to your phone/devices. Phone/device is only about local security of the operating system itself. Having capability to take superuser access of the phone actually is a big plus, so you can get access deeper into /system in your OS.
    12-27-16 08:32 PM
  19. TGR1's Avatar
    So what part of the request was unlawful exactly? And they actually were going too take it to the courts then the FBI ended up dropping it since they were able to get into the phone without Apple's help.
    That the ancient and very encompassing All Writs Act was not applicable, that writing a custom iOS version would take x FTE and y $ and thus qualifies as an unreasonable burden. Others items as well that I cannot recall off the top of my head but ultimately Apple didn't want to write in a back door which is what Comey wanted. The Apple response was very detailed and generally regarded as a sound piece of legal work.

    ETA: an example why, even with the best of intentions and promises to keep access tightly controlled, back doors are pesky things

    Bungling Microsoft singlehandedly proves that golden backdoor keys are a terrible idea ? The Register
    12-28-16 03:30 AM
  20. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I think your IT specialist is totally wrong.

    iOS users and Android users are basically carrying devices with a large number of security holes, while BB10 has still not been powned.

    I don't care if holes are patched next week or next year, I just don't want them in the first place.
    And it seems that only BlackBerry is able to deliver that quality. Period.

    If we just focus on all historical CVSS scores above 9, then it looks like this for iOS

    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...2a91b50a05740a


    and Android


    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...7afc8985e3dc01


    while BB10 with any CVSS score is like this:

    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...kberry-Os.html




    Posted via CB10
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    12-29-16 02:44 AM
  21. Invictus0's Avatar
    I don't care if holes are patched next week or next year, I just don't want them in the first place.
    And it seems that only BlackBerry is able to deliver that quality. Period.
    The BB10 CVE Details link you posted contradicts this.

    It also doesn't list any Android runtime exploits either (like Stagefright).
    12-29-16 10:48 AM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    I think your IT specialist is totally wrong.

    iOS users and Android users are basically carrying devices with a large number of security holes, while BB10 has still not been powned.
    Wow.. I'm scared..

    Although, 2 years and I have never gotten someone hijacked any services I'm using in my android phone.
    Last edited by chain13; 12-29-16 at 11:27 AM.
    12-29-16 10:57 AM
  23. cribble2k's Avatar
    I think your IT specialist is totally wrong.

    iOS users and Android users are basically carrying devices with a large number of security holes, while BB10 has still not been powned.

    I don't care if holes are patched next week or next year, I just don't want them in the first place.
    And it seems that only BlackBerry is able to deliver that quality. Period.

    If we just focus on all historical CVSS scores above 9, then it looks like this for iOS

    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...2a91b50a05740a


    and Android


    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...7afc8985e3dc01


    while BB10 with any CVSS score is like this:

    http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabil...kberry-Os.html




    Posted via CB10
    As I said before, how many security holes would be found in BB10 if people actually used it? 🤔

    You know, if there was an active development community, and millions of users, how many flaws would of been found?

    I'll stay with Google Android.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-29-16 12:55 PM
  24. z10Jobe's Avatar
    As I said before, how many security holes would be found in BB10 if people actually used it? 🤔

    You know, if there was an active development community, and millions of users, how many flaws would of been found?

    I'll stay with Google Android.
    Zero and zero.

    Posted via CB10
    12-29-16 01:18 PM
  25. anon(5597702)'s Avatar
    Zero and zero.

    Posted via CB10
    Everything has security holes. BlackBerry is not exempt from that.

    Posted via CB10
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-29-16 01:48 PM
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