07-12-11 12:18 AM
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  1. southlander's Avatar
    Would you expect good press for a company with aged products?
    Nope. I would not. I did not say they do not deserve some of the criticisms.
    07-11-11 07:22 PM
  2. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I disagree a bit with the comments about who was brilliant etc.. as a brilliant man (or two men) would have adapted to current demands.

    Initially RIM had an idea to move into the untapped pager/email market and capitalized on it. They weren't the first to harbor an idea to do it, however they were fast and moved quickly enough to tap it. There weren't too many (if any) players to compete with, so the move to do it wasn't that difficult, relatively speaking. In fact, if anybody recalls, there was a point in which RIM (despite huge demand) was reluctant to even incorporate phone capabilities to their Blackberry devices, as they were convinced pager and email services was where it was at, and thought incorporating a telephone into their devices was contrary to where they were trying to move mobile technology. From its inception, RIM has always been reluctant to adapt to consumer demand.

    The problem today is that mobile technology didn't move exactly in the same direction they had initially predicted, and there are a lot more formidable players in the game. The brains behind RIM were able to create and market a product to the (at the time) current technology and demands, however have time and time again demonstrated that they were reluctant and blind to future advances.

    It's a bit akin to the gladiators who dominated the arena, until the Caesar started throwing multiple tigers into the bout. Change your tactics, or die.
    Last edited by rmjones101; 07-11-11 at 07:28 PM.
    07-11-11 07:22 PM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    no you see, apple isn't having quarterly marketshare loss, investors leaving, revenue dropping, and developers leaving....i would say they're as far from neck and neck as you could possibly be.
    True that RIM has those issues. What always ticks me off though is when the sensationalist headlines do not match the numbers within. To say RIM is "drifting rapidly to the bottom of the heap" and then turn around and say they are #3 with ~ 25%, with Apple at ~27% and Android at 38% or whatever, seems a little mis-matched. Makes it sound like soon Sony Ericsson will leave them in the dust or that something silly like RIM going to 1% of the market would happen.

    And RIM holding on to a 42% share of the smartphone market was no more likely than Netscape keeping 90% of the browser market, or whatever.

    I just think it is unlikely RIM is "plunging to the bottom" with the new handsets that are coming and the promise of the Tablet OS. Usually things are neither as good or bad as the extremes. And I think for RIM it is somewhere in the middle.
    07-11-11 07:36 PM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    Apple's turn-around occurred when it pushed into new markets (music players, phones, tablets). Unfortunately, when it comes to identifying the next market to enter, Mike Laziridis is no Steve Jobs.
    True and almost no one else is. Yet there are many more successful companies in the world than there are brilliant visionary leaders.
    07-11-11 07:40 PM
  5. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    For any other business I'd agree, but this is Google, well known for tossing around money for fun, if you go back to when they released android, they made it clear it wasn't about money, but more about making sure apples draconian influence was limited, and that's word for word why android exists. They weren't ever trying to hit the lottery with android, just release a platform with more options for their customers. I think Google will hold tight for a year, rim won't be any better by then, and I'd wager you'll see rim acquired, by everyone who has a stake in androids future
    I disagree. Google was involved with Android long before Apple even introduced the iPhone. And I've never heard about Google making any decision that wasn't based on money. Apple's move into the mobile market may have encouraged an expeditious push by Google to move it forward, but that's about it.

    My prediction... Android will continue to rise for another year, (or two tops) but beyond that will depend on what happens in the mobile industry as pertains to patent law (personally I predict patent law as pertains to IP will be completely revamped with new regulation within the next couple years with a lot of chaos ensuing). RIM will also rise higher again with a strong push after a year or two, but the method of doing so very reliant on the success or failure of incorporating QNX and higher end devices coupled with encouraging developer support. Personally, I think RIM will find themselves on the brink of a merger or selling before it happens. But who knows :shrug:
    07-11-11 07:42 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    google won't be pulling the plug on android, and you can bring up lawsuits all you want, but so far all of these bullying lawsuits seem to be going exactly nowhere, htc only agreed to pay microsoft, they were never ordered to
    Do you not think that HTC had a team of lawyers look at what Microsoft was going to sue them over for infringements before deciding to willing pay Microsoft? Of course they did and the lawyers told them to make an agreement because if you don't we will likely get sued and lose! Plain and simple. No company willingly pays another a $15 fee per phone unless they are clearly using a license/patent that isn't their own. So now you have a free OS, that costs $15 per handset to a company who has nothing to do with the OS, and has a competing OS. And that's just the first infringement someone is bringing up. OpenSource is great except when the clowns coding it blatantly copy intellectual property from non-OpenSource companies. I think Samsung is going to lose to Apple too because they try to make the Android OS and the hardware look just like Apples. These companies teamed up to keep patents away from Google for a reason. And if the great, free OS becomes to costly for the companies building the phones running it, it will die and be replaced by something with a true license!
    07-11-11 07:45 PM
  7. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Do you not think that HTC had a team of lawyers look at what Microsoft was going to sue them over for infringements before deciding to willing pay Microsoft? Of course they did and the lawyers told them to make an agreement because if you don't we will likely get sued and lose! Plain and simple. No company willingly pays another a $15 fee per phone unless they are clearly using a license/patent that isn't their own. So now you have a free OS, that costs $15 per handset to a company who has nothing to do with the OS, and has a competing OS. And that's just the first infringement someone is bringing up. OpenSource is great except when the clowns coding it blatantly copy intellectual property from non-OpenSource companies. I think Samsung is going to lose to Apple too because they try to make the Android OS and the hardware look just like Apples. These companies teamed up to keep patents away from Google for a reason. And if the great, free OS becomes to costly for the companies building the phones running it, it will die and be replaced by something with a true license!
    Actually it's $5 a handset. But too... HTC just appropriated new patents that will in most likelihood result in HTC turning around and receiving more in royalties from Microsoft and DirectX than Microsoft does from HTC Android handsets.

    And if you look at Microsoft's track record of trying to attack opensource projects, they lose more often than not. In fact, most often, Microsoft tries to emulate opensource projects in an attempt to push their own proprietary services, and wind up losing the battle. Microsoft is not the powerhouse they were 10-15 years ago.
    Last edited by rmjones101; 07-11-11 at 07:56 PM.
    07-11-11 07:53 PM
  8. Economist101's Avatar
    Nope. I would not. I did not say they do not deserve some of the criticisms.
    My point is that you don't (or at least shouldn't) get credit for weathering "bad press" if the bad press is your own fault. It's like the guy that kills his parents but asks for a lenient sentence because he's an orphan.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-11-11 08:19 PM
  9. flyersfan76's Avatar
    Unreal. RIM is NOT just in the Smartphone business. It is unreal that the media and wall street "experts" don't see that.

    Oh wait Wall Street increased gas prices and even they have no idea who the largest oil company in the world is. It isn't BP or Exxon Mobil.
    07-11-11 09:33 PM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    Actually it's $5 a handset. But too... HTC just appropriated new patents that will in most likelihood result in HTC turning around and receiving more in royalties from Microsoft and DirectX than Microsoft does from HTC Android handsets.

    And if you look at Microsoft's track record of trying to attack opensource projects, they lose more often than not. In fact, most often, Microsoft tries to emulate opensource projects in an attempt to push their own proprietary services, and wind up losing the battle. Microsoft is not the powerhouse they were 10-15 years ago.
    Yep it's samsung they are going after the $15 million on. Microsoft isn't what they were, and I'm no fan of their past or present tactics, but they do have a lot of IP. But I still think that Microsoft is just the beginning and all the other smartphone OS companies are going to sue away to pick Android apart piece by piece.
    07-11-11 09:40 PM
  11. jlspeed29's Avatar
    truth hurts...all we can do is wait and see what they say in their earnings release...
    07-12-11 12:18 AM
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