[AtMostFear]

Hey guys, I posted this in Off-Topic Discussion, but it didn't get many respond, so I'm re-posting it here..

I just sold an unlocked Storm 2 by Verizon that I won from an auction site last 2 weeks. The problem is, I think the buyer might be trying to scam me by asking for a refund for product defect. (He had only 1 feedback on eBay before the transaction with me).

First, he complained that the green button (call button) on the phone doesn't work, he went to Verizon to activate the phone but Verizon peeps said no go as there's no simcard in it, and the imei/pin etc. details on the side of the box has been torn up.

I told him that I tested every single thing on the phone before I sent it to him (put in my sim card and made a call). There's no need for him to go to Verizon to activate it as it's already unlocked (unless he wants a phone line from Verizon). And I told him I have pictures of the box being in great shape when I send it to him.

He then replied the ON button doesn't work. He said that Verizon peeps couldn't activate the phone as they couldn't turn on the phone, but they also found out there's already two phone numbers saved in the phone. (Is there even any way to check the contact list without turning on the phone?)

What do you guys think is going on here? He paid me through Paypal and I already received the money in my bank. I'm just concerned if he might reverse charge it. I do have pictures of the box (with the phone details such as IMEI, pin etc) and also the phone. However, I do not have a video recording that the phone works. Is there any way I could request from RIM/Verizon or whoever to check if the PIN is currently being used?

p/s: On a side note, I sent it using UPS Ground insured for $400.

Here's a picture of the box details, can any of you guys point to me which one is the IMEI number? I want to try adding it to my BIS account and see if he's happily using the phone already..

farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4402318635_acf85946a5_b.jpg

[itsdollar]

They can't check the contacts or calls without turning on the phone. Sounds like a scam or someone that really didn't know what he was buying

[pilsbury]

Well, did you specify in your auction-no refunds or returns? If he wants to he can file a claim if you didnt specify. Also, if you dont refund his money he will most certainly leave you negative feedback. i would contact Ebay/PayPal and tell them whats going on and see what they say.

[kyroguy]

This will not help you now but this is exactly why you don't sell on ebay. Scammers have taken over the site and the only sellers that can survive are huge and can deal with the losses. They changed the feedback and dispute process and the sellers have absolutely no leverage now. You may end up eating this one. Never sell on ebay unless you are ready to just give the item away. Try craigslist (has its own bunch of scammers/spammers but it's free) or any other local sites in your area.

I know that wasn't helpful to you but maybe someone else with the same idea will stumble across this and it will save them the headache. Best of luck to the OP!

[snowindec9]

wow this sucks big time. that guy knows what he is doing. he is playing you so he doesn't have to pay the amount for the device you sold him. always better to stay away from selling items on ebay. i rarely even buy an item from ebay. thats how bad these scams can become.

[itsdollar]

EBAY is still a great site if you are careful. The sad thing as someone pointed out is they make it hard for the sellers because of all the scamming buyers. I buy a lot from there and have never had issues but I don't like selling on there because of incidents like these.

[my_handle]

Sounds like a scam but if it legitimately doesn't work he/she can appeal even with a no refund if you stated it worked perfectly. Happened to me. Won an iphone 2g, with cracked screen but replacment parts. I disputed cause only a screen not the lcd was included. It was missing the most expensive part and even though no refund was stated I still got one.

[AtMostFear]

Well, did you specify in your auction-no refunds or returns? If he wants to he can file a claim if you didnt specify. Also, if you dont refund his money he will most certainly leave you negative feedback. i would contact Ebay/PayPal and tell them whats going on and see what they say.

I mentioned no returns on my eBay post. A few hours ago he just made an eBay dispute asking for a full refund for product defect. He included every complains that he told me except the part where the side box is torn up and there's two phone numbers already present in the phone.

Let's see what happens..I just wish there's any way to check if the phone is currently being used by its IMEI or PIN..

EDIT: Any of you guys had experience requesting refunds from UPS?

[Ponderous]

I wouldn't give this guy a refund if you specified NO REFUNDS in your auction. Also, ask for the information about the VZW employee he spoke with. Get him to give you names and nail him down to where he was and when. He may balk at the idea of committing to a store.

Best place I've found to buy/sell phones is right here on ole' CB. It's free and safe and for the most part, you can quickly get a feel of the buyer/seller from their posts. I had a great experience here.

[JustinD2473#IM]

if he wants a refund, make him return the phone first and make sure it is still in the condition it was in when you sent it to him...

[chuckh0308]

SCAM!!!

Even if there were no SIM card, the phone doesn't need it to be activated.

The MEID and PIN are on the sticker under the battery. Not only that, but VZW doesn't need to read them to activate the phone. Their system will read the device through the network if it's turned on. Of course, if it doens't turn on, well it won't do any good to have the numbers anyway.

I don't believe the story about not turning on and then having two phone numbers in it. Does not compute...

Contact eBay and PayPal and explain what's going on. As someone else noted, make sure you get back the phone in same condition as shipped before giving any money back. Obviously make sure it's the same unit too and not some "replacement" that is dead and/or tampered with.

[es_bih]

Yes if you are careful eBay is good. PayPal is very flawed unfortunately. Do not sell to international buyers even in Canada however. Many scam stories. Myself I sold my 8900 brand new, the buyer claimed it wasn't in box, and the imbeciles at PayPal refunded him automatically. I'm left with 369 dollars in minus on PayPal and no 8900. Still trying to get everything in order. I learned to deal locally if selling something.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[PilotPhil81]

Sound like a scam to me. Give him some bad feedback.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

Instead of no refunds you should have posted "No Idiots" allowed to bid on this item. Stupid people shouldn't own a BB.

[Masahiro]

There's an "ON" button?

[anon4705193]

Just tell him if he wants to send it back for a refund you have to get it back in the EXACT condition it was sent to him in, and when you are 100% sure that it is YOUR device and all original packaging, you can discuss it. Sounds like something that PayPal would tell you if he files some kind of SNAD claim.

[miller7796]

Sound like a scam to me. Give him some bad feedback.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Unfortunately, eBay no longer allows you to leave negative feedback on a buyer. You can leave negative comments in a 'positive' feedback rating, but that's it.

I have started denying eBay bids of anybody with fewer than five feedbacks, I think there's even an option to have eBay do it for you automatically on people with less than three. Fortunately, I have never had any issues like this, other than a couple people who didn't want to pay.

[mofoahh]

i only use ebay for small lil things, nothing more then $50. If you have a higher feedback with good standing and no disputes. Paypal might favor you. BUT sometimes paypal can be a$$holes and favor the scammers.

[scorpiodsu]

It would be interesting if the person is trying to use an old Storm that's already beat up or has issues. Do you have any documentation that shows the serials or PIN number of the one you sold? It would be unfortunately if they are scamming you with a broken device they already owned and will possibly get one from you for free. When I sell stuff on ebay for over 200, I make it a requirement that only bidders with must have a certain amount of feedback left and a certain percentage. It costs a little more to add these things to the auction, but you have to think of it like insurance to protect yourself.

[F0nage]

If you said no refund and you checked the device and it worked, just tell the guy to get lost.

Sounds like BS to me.

[CharredPC]

I was a successful power seller on eBay, but left for this exact reason. I can't tell you how many times I sold a laptop only to have the buyer force a return through PayPal, and when I finally get the item it's been gutted / destroyed / replaced. eBay doesn't care. PayPal doesn't care. Bottom line, if a customer wants a return and a full refund, they're going to get it no matter what you say or how logical your argument. Also, saying "no refunds" doesn't mean a thing, trust me. You're still saying things like "item works great" or "in good condition." The buyer can still file for a refund stating "not as described," and it doesn't matter how many disclaimers you add in. They are only good for scaring away potential returns, but makes no difference once a PayPal dispute is filed.

Of course, as a buyer, the system works great as long as you do your homework and stay away from all the China auctions. But as more and more sellers realize how broken the system is, the foreign junk drop-shippers slowly take over. I realize this isn't good news for you, just telling it like it is. I learned the hard way and ended up walking away from PayPal with a $400+ negative balance, thanks to a rip-off buyer. I couldn't even leave him negative feedback to warn other sellers.

[AtMostFear]

What if I close my Paypal and bank account before he reverse charges it? I know it's not the right thing to do, but what choice do I have..

and say when I receive the phone back it's already broken/replaced/whatever, can I make UPS responsible for that instead? it was insured when I sent it in the first place.

from what you guys are saying, it looks like I'm fighting a losing battle. I just want to make sure I don't lose my money..

[srvac]

Closing a bank account could help but it is a hassle. You'd probably also have to close or change your backup credit card through PayPal as well.

Of course, if he were a real user, he would know that the contact list is easily replaced with his own list.

With a Storm 2, can you have specifically the green call button not work? Its part of the screen and there are four "push" sensors.

[mjbesen310]

dont fall for this SCAM OP.... be smarter then him... do not fall for this crap...

[Radius]

I left you a PM, there's a bit of advice in there. FYI for everyone, PayPal is pretty good about this and you can stipulate no refund without a return.

Also you can use the pics from eBay to verify to PayPal that what you got returned was or was not what you shipped.