03-16-16 08:02 AM
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  1. playbookster's Avatar
    Can't install a leaked OS without a USB cable......

    Geeks United C00122408
    Oh well yeah, thought you guys were talking about apps which is what this thread was about.

    Sent from my Z30
    11-18-13 08:15 AM
  2. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Oh well yeah, thought you guys were talking about apps which is what this thread was about.

    Sent from my Z30
    Technically, it's related as you need a cable to load the leak and you need to load the latest leak to install apk's (until an official update).

    The app gap remains for the average customer who won't want to mess around just to get an app they want. They'll buy the platform that has the app's they want readily available.

    Geeks United C00122408
    paper_monkey likes this.
    11-18-13 08:19 AM
  3. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Blackberry would build those apps if they were allowed to.

    Posted from my 295ppi super amoled s stripe 720p Z30
    So are you concedeing that BlackBerry does not have permission for these apps? If so, then how is it magically ok for them to be using the app from a different platform? At the very least, they would have to completely rework the terms of the EULAs for the sundry app stores which would likely mean substantial changes to the contracts/agreements that the devs enter into for their apps.

    Are you trying to have a debate or are you being stubborn? If you are trying to have a debate then gather your thoughts and put forward a solid argument because from where I sit, it looks like you are just being stubborn and slightly changing your argument to fit the current rebuttle regardless of what that may say about your previous arguments. I'll give you the same advice I give my 4 year old.. this may work for a while in Kindergarten but once you get past about 6, this technique doesn't fool anyone.
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    11-18-13 08:20 AM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    Ive been downloading off the googleplay website and most do work. This is a leak, just a reminder. There are going to be glitches and bugs
    That is the PROBLEM with BlackBerry... we accept that there will be glitches and bugs. But most consumers today will not, and while Android and iPhone do have problems from time to time, they are both relatively mature OS that are stable and work very well.

    Even IF in a month from now we get a 10.2.1.xxx release that allows full Google Play intergration and the installation of most all apps and they funtiion perfectly.... all that says to consumers is that BlackBerry is now basically another Android OEM. I doubt that consumers will care, being that BlackBerry hardware is never going to compete (specs or pricing) with Samsung, HTC, Motorola (expect with the Z10 price and it's huge marked down).

    The only group this is going to help is Enterprise. It gives them the security (as long as they can control what APK are installed) and the ability to run industry specific applications.
    11-18-13 08:24 AM
  5. playbookster's Avatar
    So are you concedeing that BlackBerry does not have permission for these apps? If so, then how is it magically ok for them to be using the app from a different platform? At the very least, they would have to completely rework the terms of the EULAs for the sundry app stores which would likely mean substantial changes to the contracts/agreements that the devs enter into for their apps.

    Are you trying to have a debate or are you being stubborn? If you are trying to have a debate then gather your thoughts and put forward a solid argument because from where I sit, it looks like you are just being stubborn and slightly changing your argument to fit the current rebuttle regardless of what that may say about your previous arguments. I'll give you the same advice I give my 4 year old.. this may work for a while in Kindergarten but once you get past about 6, this technique doesn't fool anyone.
    I think you are going a tad too far. Netflix doesn't want to build an app for bb10 because they would have to manage another platform. Having an unmodified apk means they can manage their Netflix app on bb10 as an android, not bar file.

    Sent from my Z30
    11-18-13 08:24 AM
  6. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Pirate means stealing. Stealing means withholding money from someone. How am I pirating when I buy an app from the amazon appstore.?

    Posted from my 295ppi super amoled s stripe 720p Z30
    even if you paid for the app, if you are using it on a platform other than the one it was intended (and purchased) for then you are violating the terms of the playstore, generally of the EULA for the programme itself and the copyright law in many jurisdictions... Unless the agreements for the users and devs of the various app stores have been amended then whether you want to call it piracy (which from your narrow definition I'm assuming you don't) or something else, you are not using the apps in the manner they were intended and are violating a number of agreemtns and licences in doing so.
    Pete The Penguin and bekkay like this.
    11-18-13 08:25 AM
  7. playbookster's Avatar
    even if you paid for the app, if you are using it on a platform other than the one it was intended (and purchased) for then you are violating the terms of the playstore, generally of the EULA for the programme itself and the copyright law in many jurisdictions... Unless the agreements for the users and devs of the various app stores have been amended then whether you want to call it piracy (which from your narrow definition I'm assuming you don't) or something else, you are not using the apps in the manner they were intended and are violating a number of agreemtns and licences in doing so.
    Then why does the amazon app store even exist and why is it not taken down? How was amazon allowed to fork android and bypass the Google play store?

    Sent from my Z30
    11-18-13 08:32 AM
  8. paper_monkey's Avatar
    I think you are going a tad too far. Netflix doesn't want to build an app for bb10 because they would have to manage another platform. Having an unmodified apk means they can manage their Netflix app on bb10 as an android, not bar file.

    Sent from my Z30
    Then why can I not stream netflix through my browser? Netflix has agreements in place for the technology they use to deliver their service (for instance silverlight) they have terms and conditions on their ability to use that technology which they have to adhere to in their subsequent agreements. If the issue were as simple as not wanting to support additional platforms with additional formats then they could take they easy course of permitting 3rd party apps with the disclaimer that the 3rd party apps cannot be guaranteed to operate the way the native app does.

    At the very least, will you concede that this issue is more complicated than you seem to think it is? This is by no means a mass solution to the missing apps, and in the long run will likely lead to alianating app developers as they either receive poor feedback from people using their apps in a manner they weren't intended and/or take flack for not releasing a native app but applying a bandaid solution instead?
    bbq10l likes this.
    11-18-13 08:33 AM
  9. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Then why does the amazon app store even exist and why is it not taken down? How was amazon allowed to fork android and bypass the Google play store?

    Sent from my Z30
    By entering into the appropriate agreements. Just as we are not required to get all of our apps through BB Appworld, android users are not required to get their apps through the Play store. The content being provided on the amazon app store would be the result of contracts and licence agreements. I'm sure many devs appreciate the ability to have different distribution streams provided they are entering into them knowingly and with the appropriate protections in place.
    11-18-13 08:35 AM
  10. paper_monkey's Avatar
    My biggest complaint is that 90 percent of people that don't have BB10 devices at this moment, aren't going to know you can directly install APK files from the device now.
    and arguably, 95% of people that DO own BB10 devices still can't. I'm sure there are stats somewhere but realistically, how many BB10 users install OS leaks? if you don't have the leak installed you can't directly install APK files.
    bbq10l likes this.
    11-18-13 08:41 AM
  11. paper_monkey's Avatar
    +1000

    BINGO. You've nailed it. With 10.2.1.1055, APKs install without dodgy hacks. They just install and run. Note that part of this process involves acknowledging a lengthy disclaimer; this isn't some hole that BlackBerry accidentally left open, it's a new capability they deliberately implemented.

    I don't get why some are having such a hard time grasping this; it's an OPEN SOURCE OS. Any device is "allowed" to run it in the form that it is in BB10, because BlackBerry isn't trying to certify it for Google Services.



    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30
    And I don't get why so many of you refuse to accept the fact that ALL of this is predected on the fact that you have installed a leaked OS. A leaked OS that, arguably, might never see the light of day if BBRY can't get themselves on track and generate some actual revanue. Once the OS is released to the public as an official release, if it still has this functionality in it and all of the appropriate agreements have been signed then yes, this has the potential to be a game changer.. I'm still not convinced it is necesarily a game cahnger in a good way (for the long term viability of BBRY and BB10) but that's a post for a different thread.
    bbq10l likes this.
    11-18-13 10:00 AM
  12. omar_q10's Avatar
    I can go on and on about this, bringing in facts and links. But the truth is that considering that the application gap is closed through the use of android application instead of native BlackBerry applications is just simply a joke. If you like it or not until you have the missing applications available on blackberry world built nativity for BlackBerry 10 then the application gap will still be wide open.

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 10:03 AM
  13. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Sorry, wrong.

    Any developer who cares if people use their application or not (and on what) can enforce that requirement themselves.

    There are two simple and easily-available means to do so -- personally through their own infrastructure (e.g. by requiring registration before the app works, etc) and through the various app store payment and registration systems.

    The thing is that most app developers want the maximum number of people to use their application, and therefore they not only don't care if you load it somewhere else they want you to load it somewhere else.

    The tools have always existed for those app developers and applications that have a different point of view, for example, those who want to charge you for the app itself or limit the device(s) it runs on for some reason. I agree that circumventing those restrictions (e.g. by de-compiling an APK into .smali code and removing the check, then re-compiling and re-signing it) is piracy because you are circumventing an access device that the developer built into the application. That not only is piracy on an ethical level it is illegal under the DMCA and a handful of other statutes, at least in the US.

    But that's not at-issue here. What's at issue here is people doing what the app developer intends and wants, which is to use their application as often and as widely as possible.

    BTW I'm a software developer and network guy by trade, have built a national IP backbone, run a large regional Internet company and written software for corporations, government entities and myself for some 30 years. This ain't my first rodeo.
    So given your credentials, what do you do when you start getting negative reivews/comments/complaints from people who take an app you developed to run on an android device and use it on a different device and get a completely different UX than intended? Yes, if there is a process to go through (even if it's a relatively short easy one) that is different than the normal app instalation process then most people will understand what they are potentially getting into but what about people that have well meaning friends/family that do it for them or in this case (if the latest leak gos official) where they can do it easily themselves and then the app crashes or doesn't work the way you designed it to? Are you ok with the negative feedback from that and the porpensity for people to tell anyone who will listen what a bad experience they had with something when things go wrong?
    11-18-13 10:13 AM
  14. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Again, to your point, BBRY hasn't released this version yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It was leaked. BBRY says it's for developers only, and that it's not for piracy.

    BBRY is shifting blame. First, for its users illicitly using its "leaked" software, and for those users pirating apps.

    Is it actionable? Dunno. Don't know if it's worth it, either.
    Careful now Tre.. you're drifting dangerously close to the question of whether or not running a leaked OS is legit or piracy and given some of the response thus far in the thread, I would hazard to guess that most think running a leak is perfectly fine..
    11-18-13 10:47 AM
  15. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Come on are you serious? This sentence from the Amazon ToS as you've stated is so badly worded...

    Let me write out again what you stated "Apps can be used only on mobile devices that use the Android platform"

    Read it again. Does this mean that I'm ONLY able to use these apps on MOBILE devices so "official" Wifi Android tablets are not eligible? Or does it mean ONLY on the Android platform as opposed to the Windows or Apple platform in which these apk's won't work anyways.

    This statement is so vague with many interpretations that a decent lawyer out of law school could easily rip holes in it.

    Posted via CB10
    Depends on how the contract defines 'Mobile' and 'Device'

    Have you ever written contracts or legislation..? There is very little room left for error in this type of writing and in general, these are permissive documents so they will never tell you that you must run something, only that you can run it and what the limitations on your ability to run it is.
    11-18-13 11:03 AM
  16. canuckvoip's Avatar
    I posted it 2 times already...
    I know some people prefer to warp reality, but here we go again:

    Sideloading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "When referring to Android apps, "sideloading" typically means installing an application package in APK format onto an Android device. Such packages are usually downloaded from websites other than Google Play. Sideloading of apps is only possible if the user allowed "Unknown Sources" in their Security Settings.[1]"

    Posted via CB10
    And? The use of the word "typically" blows it for you. And it's freakin' Wikipedia.
    Yeesh...
    11-18-13 11:21 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    OK

    So I just tried to load Instagram on my Z.

    You cannot go directly to the Play Store to get Instagram. The options are 1mobile or sites like evozi do com.

    Since I don't go to third party sites to load ANYTHING on ANY of my phones, I am not doing this.

    No, the app gap is nowhere close to being closed. You cannot go to the Play Store directly and I am going nowhere near 1mobile.


    Sent from whichever BBM carrying device I happen to grab, via Tapatalk
    11-18-13 11:30 AM
  18. coffee-turtle's Avatar
    Hi qbnkelt,

    There is the Amazon appstore:

    Install Amazon Appstore

    You go there and you will be presented with a link to their apk file directly.

    (I wonder if there is a google play .apk file itself?) - guessing not.
    Undbiter65 likes this.
    11-18-13 11:35 AM
  19. omar_q10's Avatar
    What do people from crackberry say about this?

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 11:35 AM
  20. coffee-turtle's Avatar
    11-18-13 11:39 AM
  21. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Then why does the amazon app store even exist and why is it not taken down? How was amazon allowed to fork android and bypass the Google play store?

    Sent from my Z30
    Amazon aren't members of the Open Handset Allience - their store has Android apps that are designed to run on Android (which the Kindle's OS is based on).

    If you're an Android app dev, you don't have to only submit your apps to Google. There are lots of alternative Android app stores.

    Geeks United C00122408
    11-18-13 11:47 AM
  22. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Hi qbnkelt,

    There is the Amazon appstore:

    Install Amazon Appstore

    You go there and you will be presented with a link to their apk file directly.

    (I wonder if there is a google play .apk file itself?) - guessing not.

    Thanks love. I can't do it on the network, requires wifi. I'm at work, so no wifi.
    11-18-13 11:52 AM
  23. xandermac's Avatar
    Also as long as:

    Developers don't block sideloadV2
    AppStores don't block sideloadV2
    The runtime stays updated
    Apps run perfectly as there will be ZERO support
    BBRY doesn't get a reputation for piracy
    BBRY doesn't get a reputation for insecurity & infection from (shady source) apps

    That's a lot of "As long as" most of which are out of BBRY hands and at the mercy of others. If consumers are explained this it'll be far too much uncertainty for most.

    Because it really makes no difference. As long as the app runs smooth, does not crash and does not lag, nobody except people who frequent this website gives a damn.
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    11-18-13 12:12 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    And? The use of the word "typically" blows it for you. And it's freakin' Wikipedia.
    Yeesh...
    We already made the assessment that for pretty much everything on the basic level, Wikipedia is enough.

    Because I find you funny and wonder why you don't search yourself for definitions that you seem to struggle with, I may help you out once again:
    http://phandroid.com/2013/07/20/andr...eloading-apps/

    http://www.itworld.com/answers/topic...d-it-bad-thing

    http://www.androidcentral.com/what-s...ding-android-z

    http://lifehacker.com/5943562/how-to...d-android-apps

    And now guess what?
    Yes!!!!
    The term sideloading applies to what PlayBookster and other users described in the entire thread.

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 12:12 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    And I don't get why so many of you refuse to accept the fact that ALL of this is predected on the fact that you have installed a leaked OS. A leaked OS that, arguably, might never see the light of day if BBRY can't get themselves on track and generate some actual revanue. Once the OS is released to the public as an official release, if it still has this functionality in it and all of the appropriate agreements have been signed then yes, this has the potential to be a game changer.. I'm still not convinced it is necesarily a game cahnger in a good way (for the long term viability of BBRY and BB10) but that's a post for a different thread.
    The very strong likelihood is that we will see an Android implementation in BB10 similar to the one in 10.2.1.1055. There is nothing illegal/immoral/unethical about it; they are running a freely available Open Source OS in a Virtual Machine. In fact, there was likely nothing stopping them from doing this as far back as the PlayBook days, but my own guess is that they wanted to give the BB10 developer community a little more breathing room.

    Sure, it is only available in the form of a leak now, but it's reasonably easy to guess that it's eventually coming for EVERYONE.
    missing_K-W and Undbiter65 like this.
    11-18-13 12:21 PM
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