03-16-16 08:02 AM
1,792 ... 2122232425 ...
tools
  1. m1kr0's Avatar
    One other issue to be raised: Do "Google based" Android users install apps from other sources, for example Amazon? I have installed apps on my Nexus from sources outside Play store because it was not available (does not happen often since the Store has hundreds of thousands of apps). I know you take your chances and you get warned that it is unsafe but that's up to the end user to take their chances. Question is, is that wrong to do that, or illegal?
    11-16-13 04:11 PM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    BB's defence would be the same as those companies that made video recorders and cassette tape recorders... Those devices have a legitimate purpose, namely recording yourself and your family's escapades. The fact that the overwhelming use people made of those devices was to infringe copyright isn't the manufacturers fault and nobody ever successfully sued a VCR maker AFAIK because users copied movies using VCRs.

    Similarly, BB will claim that direct loading of apk's is to make Devs life easier when loading their own Apps, which is what they said about side loading too. And that's true, but will amount to close to 0% of the use people will put this facility to.

    So, BB have no reason to fear the lawyers, but it doesn't make what they're doing right.
    Makes sense.
    11-16-13 04:11 PM
  3. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    One other issue to be raised: Do "Google based" Android users install apps from other sources, for example Amazon? I have installed apps on my Nexus from sources outside Play store because it was not available (does not happen often since the Store has hundreds of thousands of apps). I know you take your chances and you get warned that it is unsafe but that's up to the end user to take their chances. Question is, is that wrong to do that, or illegal?
    I believe that if the app developer or his/her agent makes it available, then it's all good.

    It is possible to attach your Nexus device to the Amazon App store without breaking any TOS. Your are also allowed to sideload apps from, say, XDA by developers too (at your risk).

    So my belief is that you're good. Where it gets murky for me is when apps are hosted without the permission of developers. That's a no-no for me.
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 11-16-13 at 09:43 PM.
    11-16-13 04:16 PM
  4. Tehedra's Avatar
    I think a lot are missing the point of legality or not, BlackBerry is legally running an Android Runtime. Android is open source, it is licensed as an Open Source license. They run that run time in it's own thread, which keeps it seperate from the QNX core, which keeps things safe. They do not have an Android App Store but it is legal, and there are many Android OS implementations out there that run the same way, to allow the installation of APK files. They are not responsible for how users will use this technology, much like I could use my Apple computer to download music or movies illegally. Yes the computer can play the files, and yes it could be used for illegal purposes. But there are many legal purposes.

    Applications do not NEED to be in a Market Place, some developers choose to provide the APK files only on their website. Some put them on both their own websites and in Market Places. Google Play and other Market Places actually provide APK download links for FREE applications through their website. There are API's available to access Android Apps for Virtualized Android machines on apple computers and windows computers.

    The point is, it is not illegal to provide the ability to install apk files directly into their Android OS. If they were not running BB10, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If this was say an HTC Android Phone that had no Market Place, and they just allowed the installation of APK files. No one would question it, because they think oh it's Android so its fine.

    But BB10 is running Android, it is not emulating Android which is different.

    Great work BlackBerry, I hope we see more and more advances on this and I do hope that eventually we will see Google Play merged into BBWorld with a way of determing which apps are from BlackBerry and which are Android. I still prefer Native Apps, but the more Apps the better.

    Others are also forgetting, that we might see more of these Apps hit BBWorld now that the Runtime is more open. We might see Netflix say hey! The porting works better now. So might Instagram.

    Cheers,
    Tehedra
    11-16-13 04:19 PM
  5. bekkay's Avatar
    BB's defence would be the same as those companies that made video recorders and cassette tape recorders... Those devices have a legitimate purpose, namely recording yourself and your family's escapades. The fact that the overwhelming use people made of those devices was to infringe copyright isn't the manufacturers fault and nobody ever successfully sued a VCR maker AFAIK because users copied movies using VCRs.

    Similarly, BB will claim that direct loading of apk's is to make Devs life easier when loading their own Apps, which is what they said about side loading too. And that's true, but will amount to close to 0% of the use people will put this facility to.

    So, BB have no reason to fear the lawyers, but it doesn't make what they're doing right.
    That's correct. All these people saying that BB10 devices are somehow Android devices and it's OK to use APKs may and most likely are wrong.

    So unless BBRY or any other authority explicitly says BB10 devices are Android devices (which will never happen) or app stores such as Amazon explicitly say it's OK to install their apps on Android and BB10, your opinions are just unconfirmed speculations. And as such, the status quo remains - BB10 devices are NOT Android devices.
    11-16-13 04:19 PM
  6. m1kr0's Avatar
    That's correct. All these people saying that BB10 devices are somehow Android devices and it's OK to use APKs may and most likely are wrong.

    So unless BBRY or any other authority explicitly says BB10 devices are Android devices (which will never happen) or app stores such as Amazon explicitly say it's OK to install their apps on Android and BB10, your opinions are just unconfirmed speculations. And as such, the status quo remains - BB10 devices are NOT Android devices.
    Yes, I agree. I would like to see the official BB and Amazon stance on this.
    11-16-13 04:25 PM
  7. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    I want mobile computing. The days of curated experiences are over.

    BB10 allows for full computing capabilities. We don't have a dumbed down os on a mobile device. People need to realize this. This includes having easy access to software, services and capabilities.
    We can return to the early/mid 2000's where Palm, Windows Mobile, and BlackBerry apps were downloaded from various un-currated and unverified sources all over the net

    Posted via CB10
    11-16-13 04:42 PM
  8. bobauckland's Avatar
    What's really depressing is we've gone from blind irrational fanboys prior to release saying BB10 was tremendously better than Android, more resource efficient, less fragmentation, and without all the DANGEROUS MALWARE THAT EXISTS ON EVERY ANDROID DEVICE, and how it would be absolute suicide for BlackBerry to actually make Android devices, to blind irrational fanboys now arguing how every BB10 device is, in fact, an Android device.
    I've never seen anything like it. And people call Apple users sheep.
    11-16-13 05:49 PM
  9. tickerguy's Avatar
    Plus, in support of your point, is Alec referring to the, uh, accidental leak or the official version?

    BBRY will never officially sign off on what it refers to as piracy.
    Uh, Alec didn't accidentally refer to a leak of anything. The "leak" was formally released to everyone, publicly, a few days later as the SDK and is available now as an official BlackBerry web download.

    You're just flat wrong here.
    11-16-13 05:56 PM
  10. bbq10l's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Thunderbuck;9556222]I'm not sure if BB will go so far as to include a link to the app stores, but certainly they could. I have no doubt that it will be common knowledge very quickly, even to the point where sales staff demonstrate it for customers.

    This is the height of BlackBerry delusion. You techies cannot even agree is this is legal. Sideloaded apps (and they still are) can blow a phones's warranty. You actually think salespeople are going to demonstrate this to paying customers? They would be fools if they did. If a salesperson did they to me, and I messed up my phone with one of those apps, I would demand a new phone or sue them. People on this forum are completely out of touch with reality. Salespeople will not demonstrate what BlackBerry won't even advertise officially!



    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    11-16-13 06:07 PM
  11. LuVJuGGs's Avatar
    the app gap is reduced but there seems to be a new problem...swiping to answer the phone apparently is not good
    11-16-13 06:09 PM
  12. bhrgvr's Avatar
    The android runtime is like a VM running on your phone, so Microsoft and Linux and all other iterations of UX don't complain , so why should google

    Posted via CB10
    11-16-13 06:18 PM
  13. canuckvoip's Avatar
    What's really depressing is we've gone from blind irrational fanboys prior to release saying BB10 was tremendously better than Android, more resource efficient, less fragmentation, and without all the DANGEROUS MALWARE THAT EXISTS ON EVERY ANDROID DEVICE, and how it would be absolute suicide for BlackBerry to actually make Android devices, to blind irrational fanboys now arguing how every BB10 device is, in fact, an Android device.
    I've never seen anything like it. And people call Apple users sheep.
    I see what has transpired as a feature as opposed to a Godsend. That's just me. Each Android app runs in its own sandbox if I'm not mistaken, so infection is either lessened or outright impossible (I think). Please cease dousing your hair with gasoline and striking a match will you? We all shall see what comes of it.
    bradu1 likes this.
    11-16-13 06:37 PM
  14. Jerry A's Avatar
    No, because they're not being run as BlackBerry apps.

    This argument applies under the ORIGINAL sideloading scheme, because apps had to be signed and repackaged before they could be installed, and ethically this couldn't be done without the publisher's consent. So, for instance, the repackaged .BAR files that the GoodEreader site offers technically are pirated.

    In this case, there are a number of 3rd party app stores that offer the APKs directly. In many cases, the app store is legitimate and has the publisher's explicit consent, and they market to users with devices that aren't allowed to use Google Play. Amazon's app store most certainly falls in this category. The big, game-changing difference with 10.2.1 is that these APKs can now be installed without modification, meaning that for all intents and purposes, BB10 is actually running Android. And not even some cheap old version of Android, either, but 4.2.2 Jelly Bean.

    There is no misrepresentation here. The Android runtime is a legitimate implementation (if it weren't Google would have made it clear LONG ago), and it has now been unlocked to the point where apps no longer require repackaging.
    Actually, Amazon's Appstore is a 1st-party store where the app dev/publisher has to submit to said store and abide by Amazon's Appstore TOS. This is also why Amazon doesn't have some of the big-name apps from GP - devs don't like their terms.

    The 3rd-party stores you keep mentioning are in grey market territory. They do no more than scrape the Google Play URL and serve it up.

    Google has no recourse with the Amazon app store. Google can and has shutdown 3rd-party stores in the past.

    Let's get this straight, because telling folks to rely on an app source that may not be around tomorrow isn't really the best answer.
    11-16-13 06:45 PM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Uh, Alec didn't accidentally refer to a leak of anything. The "leak" was formally released to everyone, publicly, a few days later as the SDK and is available now as an official BlackBerry web download.

    You're just flat wrong here.
    BTW, that post your refer to? Alec isn't quoted on the record.

    Officially, BBRY refers to sideloading as a form of piracy.

    There is NOTHING on record deviating from this that I know, and I'm very open to be proven wrong. I challenge you to ask him (you can pm him or tweet him).
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 11-16-13 at 08:03 PM.
    11-16-13 06:56 PM
  16. bradu1's Avatar
    Yup there were no app stores. Back in 2008. But this is 2013 and I expect that my tech would have advanced.

    It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of not wanting to be bothered to have to set a romantic date with a USB cord.
    Look, I'm coming in late to this thread, and I'm betting this has already been addressed, but just in case it hasn't, I didn't want to shuffle back through a lot of pages.

    Hey Qbnkelt, just wanted to show you something.


    So now that the App Gap is gone, whats the next complaint?-img_00000487.png

    No date with USB cord required. All ota from a real app store. From their app it requested I download, which I did. I can even buy apps.

    #IchooseBlackberry10 (BBM#25)
    11-16-13 07:12 PM
  17. alternator77's Avatar
    In response to the original title question say the app gap is solved. BlackBerry still sucks at marketing unlike Htc, samsung and others. If google play is available people will then logically compare features(specs) its no different than shopping for a home computer, TV, stereo,or any other piece of consumer electronics .
    And then the clincher and thats price. When you consider what we've seen from BlackBerry thus far they have failed to compete in all regards. Even if they get one thing right not fixing the other two issues will put them in same boat they're already in now.

    Jesse its time to cook.....
    11-16-13 07:20 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Uh, Alec didn't accidentally refer to a leak of anything. The "leak" was formally released to everyone, publicly, a few days later as the SDK and is available now as an official BlackBerry web download.

    You're just flat wrong here.
    Some more stuff for you to get a partial take on Alec's views about the blogpost you referenced earlier: https://twitter.com/asaunders/status/401399168897675264

    An interesting point: they fire people who leak software.

    Here's Alec's blog post (direct from him; no paraphrasing): Upping our game for Android support: Easily bring your Android app to BlackBerry World «BlackBerry Developer Blog

    Developers can download the new BlackBerry 10.2.1 release today.
    So, while I know that folks will insist that BBRY didn't explicitly say consumers can't download it, it seems clear that this process seems to be officially geared towards developers, and it seems that BBRY still denounces sideloading as piracy. Oh yeah, leaking stuff gets you fired (no, I couldn't type that with a straight face).
    bbq10l, JeepBB, richardat and 1 others like this.
    11-16-13 07:28 PM
  19. bradu1's Avatar
    In response to the original title question say the app gap is solved. BlackBerry still sucks at marketing unlike Htc, samsung and others. If google play is available people will then logically compare features(specs) its no different than shopping for a home computer, TV, stereo,or any other piece of consumer electronics .
    And then the clincher and thats price. When you consider what we've seen from BlackBerry thus far they have failed to compete in all regards. Even if they get one thing right not fixing the other two issues will put them in same boat they're already in now.

    Jesse its time to cook.....
    Why do you think many of us are hopeful of the new management? We know where the failures has been. You don't need to tell me again, that's for sure. However, one of these issues is obviously in the process of being fixed. With this ability to direct load APK's the missing apps are resolved. Next step on this side, is to make the runtime even smoother, and try to transition some developers to go native. Now look how long BB10 has been out. Look at the vast improvement here! From needing to be a tech geek to side load, to simply needing chrome and a usb cord, to now simply loading ota from a real app store. In less than a year. Awesome.

    Let's hope for equal improvements in the other areas!

    #IchooseBlackberry10 (BBM#25)
    11-16-13 07:31 PM
  20. bekkay's Avatar
    What's really depressing is we've gone from blind irrational fanboys prior to release saying BB10 was tremendously better than Android, more resource efficient, less fragmentation, and without all the DANGEROUS MALWARE THAT EXISTS ON EVERY ANDROID DEVICE, and how it would be absolute suicide for BlackBerry to actually make Android devices, to blind irrational fanboys now arguing how every BB10 device is, in fact, an Android device.
    I've never seen anything like it. And people call Apple users sheep.
    Wait for a 1080p screen on BB10. You will see the same people claiming that it's "unnecessary", "a resource hog", and "you can't tell the difference" saying how wonderful the new resolution is.
    h20work and bobauckland like this.
    11-16-13 07:36 PM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Actually, Amazon's Appstore is a 1st-party store where the app dev/publisher has to submit to said store and abide by Amazon's Appstore TOS. This is also why Amazon doesn't have some of the big-name apps from GP - devs don't like their terms.

    The 3rd-party stores you keep mentioning are in grey market territory. They do no more than scrape the Google Play URL and serve it up.

    Google has no recourse with the Amazon app store. Google can and has shutdown 3rd-party stores in the past.

    Let's get this straight, because telling folks to rely on an app source that may not be around tomorrow isn't really the best answer.
    If I'm mistaken in referring to the Amazon store as "3rd party" then I apologize for the inaccuracy.

    I was really using the term to refer to any legitimate online source of Android apps other than Google or the OEMs. Emphasis on the "legitimate".

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30
    11-16-13 07:38 PM
  22. rickke's Avatar
    I did not finish all the post. But I found people thought BBRY users will have to download android app from Google play store or some third party play stores and worried about the related legal issues. I do not think so.

    There was an interview couple of days ogo with the dev head of BBRY. That guy does not recommand users to download from third party play stores and mentioned BB world should be the only safe place to go. It is a very clear signal. From my understanding, BB world will start to accept android app after the 10.2.1 be released. So the developers only need to submit their android app to BB world again without any modification.
    11-16-13 08:52 PM
  23. Dominick079's Avatar
    I'm just happy that BlackBerry is doing their part to bring these apps to the BlackBerry 10 platform. I am personally happy with their app selection but many aren't.
    Last edited by Dominick079; 11-21-13 at 01:33 PM.
    11-16-13 09:06 PM
  24. playbookster's Avatar
    the app gap is reduced but there seems to be a new problem...swiping to answer the phone apparently is not good
    It's much better now, especially on the z30. Swiping all the way to the top of the screen to decline a call was silly

    Sent from my Z30
    11-16-13 09:40 PM
  25. playbookster's Avatar
    I did not finish all the post. But I found people thought BBRY users will have to download android app from Google play store or some third party play stores and worried about the related legal issues. I do not think so.

    There was an interview couple of days ogo with the dev head of BBRY. That guy does not recommand users to download from third party play stores and mentioned BB world should be the only safe place to go. It is a very clear signal. From my understanding, BB world will start to accept android app after the 10.2.1 be released. So the developers only need to submit their android app to BB world again without any modification.
    Yeah you're probably right

    Sent from my Z30
    11-16-13 09:41 PM
1,792 ... 2122232425 ...

Similar Threads

  1. APKs downloaded from Android App stores that are working great!
    By CrackBerry Kevin in forum More for your BlackBerry 10 Phone!
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 01-07-14, 09:21 PM
  2. ORBIT version 1.2 - the world in your pocket
    By Innovatology in forum BlackBerry 10 Apps
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-26-13, 01:13 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-25-13, 10:37 PM
  4. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-20-13, 01:46 PM
  5. Can the PB be a full screen for my phone?
    By antoscimento in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & Rumors
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-15-13, 06:21 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD