03-16-16 08:02 AM
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  1. anon(3732391)'s Avatar
    I like that!

    IN THEORY! That leaves it wide open for complaining!
    11-16-13 03:06 PM
  2. Fr3lncr's Avatar
    I think what people need to ask themselves is that, at the end of the day, can you have pretty much the majority of all the popular Android apps on your phone? The answer is 'yes'. Are they currently easy to get on your phone? For the average person, no. Will they be easier to install on your phone with 10.2.1? Yes! Will they be easy enough that the majority of users can do it? Maybe. (If BB does a deal with with say Amazon to have a link to the Amazon Android App store preloaded, that would essentially make it easy for everyone). Will there be caveats to using Android apps on your phone that aren't downloaded through BB World (i.e. notifications about updates, etc.)? Sure.

    But, again, even though it may not be perfect, you are able to get the apps on your phone that you want. As of right now, I can install pretty much every app that I have on my Nexus 5 on a Z30 and not feel like I really missing out. Heck, the one app I want the most, is the version Google Maps that allows me to access the saved maps I created on my desktop which you can't even get on the Nexus 5 (since the new version doesn't support it yet). But I can have all the other apps I want like Yelp, TripAdisor, and well, not that many others for me actually.

    This is, I believe is the OP's point. Before you couldn't have the apps you want at all. Period. You were completely out of luck. Now however you can have them, even if that experience isn't 100% exactly the same as on another device.

    At the end of the day, something (in this case the apps you want) is better than nothing (i.e. not having the app at all), hence the issue is, while the App Gap may not be 'gone', it has been addressed in a format that gives everyone breathing room until we see how this all plays out. But pretending like nothing has been done or that the current situation isn't better than what it was before is sort of like having your head in the sand. Hey, if you don't want to sideload an Android app, that's your prerogative, but don't assume that because you don't agree with the process in place means that a solution doesn't exist.

    So, what would be the "next complaint"? Getting these apps in BB World so we can be notified about updates and not have to manually check for them (very valid point). Having BB work out an agreement with an Android app store like Amazon so BB users can get Android apps more easily. Heck, what's to stop BB from having their own Android App store like Amazon. Seriously? Amazon did their own thing, why can't BB?? (Or maybe that is how you can view Android apps in BB World, I don't know). And the final app 'complaint' to be addressed? Get the bloody apps native in BB and be done with it. The latter being my favoured solution.

    And while there at it, just to make everyone else happy, they can through in hecta core processors, 4K displays, hydrogen fuel cells, and world peace. Okay kidding about the last part... More or less :-)
    11-16-13 03:21 PM
  3. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    "Apps can be used only on mobile devices that use the Android platform"
    And BB10 devices "use the Android platform". The latest leak loosens that implementation up to the point where APKs can be installed directly. Not understanding your problem with this.
    missing_K-W likes this.
    11-16-13 03:22 PM
  4. bp3dots's Avatar
    The 10.2.1.1055 leak includes a full implementation of Jelly Bean 4.2.2.
    Could you point me to a video or article showing how to run this "full implementation" of Android on a BB, instead of BB10? (Or on top of, just as long as I'm doing exactly what I would be on say a stock Android 4.2.2 device - minus the GAPPS, which would obviously be unavailable)
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-16-13 03:24 PM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I think what people need to ask themselves is that, at the end of the day, can you have pretty much the majority of all the popular Android apps on your phone? The answer is 'yes'. Are they currently easy to get on your phone? For the average person, no. Will they be easier to install on your phone with 10.2.1? Yes! ...
    I'm not sure if BB will go so far as to include a link to the app stores, but certainly they could. I have no doubt that it will be common knowledge very quickly, even to the point where sales staff demonstrate it for customers.

    The point is, compared to the procedure that users had to go through before to get Android apps on their phones, this is pretty close to frictionless. This is the biggest thing to happen to BB10 since its launch.
    Fr3lncr likes this.
    11-16-13 03:27 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Lol, this is so BlackBerry.

    In any case, he never explicitly stated it is OK to run sideloaded APKs. He is saying if you are OK with that, go for it.

    Just like on Android, you can load APKs, but that doesn't mean your actions are legal or ethical.
    Plus, in support of your point, is Alec referring to the, uh, accidental leak or the official version?

    BBRY will never officially sign off on what it refers to as piracy.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-16-13 03:29 PM
  7. bekkay's Avatar
    And BB10 devices "use the Android platform". The latest leak loosens that implementation up to the point where APKs can be installed directly. Not understanding your problem with this.
    No, they don't. They use one small part of Android, namely the VM. That is it.

    Are Macs Windows computers just because they have the bootcamp?
    IdroidBB10, JeepBB and bobauckland like this.
    11-16-13 03:30 PM
  8. m1kr0's Avatar
    Fascinating thread here that I have been following since the beginning, same as probably several thousand other people. I'm astonished to encounter such a number of legal minds all on on thread. To everybody that believe BB is breaking the law, please assist the rest of our ignorant souls: Whoever disagrees with BB opening up the runtime and making it possible to download Android apps from other legitimate app stores like Amazon (Google is not the only legit Android app store), please take this up with BlackBerry's legal department and/or Alex Saunders. We would all like to know. I am 1000℅ sure BB made very sure of their moves before they implemented. Big corporations usually do.
    11-16-13 03:34 PM
  9. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Could you point me to a video or article showing how to run this "full implementation" of Android on a BB, instead of BB10? (Or on top of, just as long as I'm doing exactly what I would be on say a stock Android 4.2.2 device - minus the GAPPS, which would obviously be unavailable)
    BlackBerry locks pieces of it down for the sake of UI consistency and (one hopes) security. If you could root QNX I'm sure that would take care of it.

    The point is that any APK that doesn't depend on proprietary code (i.e. Google Play Services or an OEM's specific features) will likely install and run.
    11-16-13 03:34 PM
  10. bekkay's Avatar
    Fascinating thread here that I have been following since the beginning, same as probably several thousand other people. I'm astonished to encounter such a number of legal minds all on on thread. To everybody that believe BB is breaking the law, please assist the rest of our ignorant souls: Whoever disagrees with BB opening up the runtime and making it possible to download Android apps from other legitimate app stores like Amazon (Google is not the only legit Android app store), please take this up with BlackBerry's legal department and/or Alex Saunders. We would all like to know. I am 1000℅ sure BB made very sure of their moves before they implemented. Big corporations usually do.
    Google itself has developer options enabled on Android devices where you can load APKs (whether legally or illegally).

    Hosting sites also provide you with the ability to store and share content that may be pirated or not.

    Department stores sell knives and other utensils that can be used to kill people.

    How many times have you seen people taking up with the above to question the legality of the services and products they sell/provide?
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-16-13 03:38 PM
  11. IdroidBB10's Avatar
    And BB10 devices "use the Android platform". The latest leak loosens that implementation up to the point where APKs can be installed directly. Not understanding your problem with this.
    Go install Chrome to see what will happen! And the APK apps drain more battery than bb10 apps.
    11-16-13 03:38 PM
  12. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Go install Chrome to see what will happen! And the APK apps drain more battery than bb10 apps.
    That must be a result of the inefficiencies of the DVM. Just my opinion.
    11-16-13 03:40 PM
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    No, they don't. They use one small part of Android, namely the VM. That is it.

    Are Macs Windows computers just because they have the bootcamp?
    Bootcamp is a bad example, since that's an actual dual-boot scheme. Parallels would be a better comparison, since it runs the full implementation of Windows within a virtual machine. And your argument would insist that any Windows app would have to be certified as a Mac app to run in Parallels, which is not the case.
    11-16-13 03:42 PM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Go install Chrome to see what will happen! And the APK apps drain more battery than bb10 apps.
    At first glance I'd guess that Chrome likely depends on Google Play Services, and likely wouldn't work under the best of conditions.
    11-16-13 03:43 PM
  15. m1kr0's Avatar
    Google itself has developer options enabled on Android devices where you can load APKs (whether legally or illegally).

    Hosting sites also provide you with the ability to store and share content that may be pirated or not.

    Department stores sell knives and other utensils that can be used to kill people.

    How many times have you seen people taking up with the above to question the legality of the services and products they sell/provide?
    I totally agree that you can legitimately buy a firearm and use it for illegal actions, but this is not the issue. I'm asking what the impact on BlackBerry would be if they opened a runtime knowing that it is open to illegitimate actions. Will they do that knowingly and put themselves at risk? They are after all producing the software.
    11-16-13 03:44 PM
  16. bekkay's Avatar
    Bootcamp is a bad example, since that's an actual dual-boot scheme. Parallels would be a better comparison, since it runs the full implementation of Windows within a virtual machine. And your argument would insist that any Windows app would have to be certified as a Mac app to run in Parallels, which is not the case.
    Have you ever read a EULA for a Windows software?

    "Microsoft does not endorse moving the user's desktop from a physically loaded OS into a VM as a consumer solution, because the vast majority (more than 90 percent) of consumers do not license Windows under a license that would allow them to transfer Windows into a virtual machine, move Windows to a different machine, or run a secondary virtual machine that is not running XP Mode on the same machine. Without these license rights, most consumers will not be properly licensing Windows when using the virtualization features of Parallels' product."

    Gavriella Schuster, Microsoft's general manager
    11-16-13 03:44 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I am 1000℅ sure BB made very sure of their moves before they implemented. Big corporations usually do.
    LOL.

    As I said elsewhere, BBRY is slick. It's the ONLY company in the world that can call customers pirates -- openly -- for making use of a system it makes available... and be defended by the same customers!

    And we call Apple fans loyal? No one has fans like BBRY.
    11-16-13 03:45 PM
  18. bekkay's Avatar
    I totally agree that you can legitimately buy a firearm and use it for illegal actions, but this is not the issue. I'm asking what the impact on BlackBerry would be if they opened a runtime knowing that it is open to illegitimate actions. Will they do that knowingly and put themselves at risk? They are after all producing the software.
    As I mentioned so many times, Android has the same ability to have APKs sideloaded. Haven't seen any problems there.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-16-13 03:45 PM
  19. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Amazon ToS:

    "After you order an App and pay any corresponding price to us, you may download a copy of the App for your personal use to a device on which you have installed and signed in to our Appstore Software. Apps can be used only on mobile devices that use the Android platform and meet certain other technical requirements. Generally, App mobile device requirements are described on or through our App detail pages."
    That's what I did. So...???
    bradu1 likes this.
    11-16-13 03:47 PM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I totally agree that you can legitimately buy a firearm and use it for illegal actions, but this is not the issue. I'm asking what the impact on BlackBerry would be if they opened a runtime knowing that it is open to illegitimate actions. Will they do that knowingly and put themselves at risk? They are after all producing the software.
    Again, to your point, BBRY hasn't released this version yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It was leaked. BBRY says it's for developers only, and that it's not for piracy.

    BBRY is shifting blame. First, for its users illicitly using its "leaked" software, and for those users pirating apps.

    Is it actionable? Dunno. Don't know if it's worth it, either.
    11-16-13 03:50 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    That's what I did. So...???
    Do your consider a BB10 device to run the Android platform? That's what it boils down to, really.
    11-16-13 03:55 PM
  22. m1kr0's Avatar
    Again, to your point, BBRY hasn't released this version yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It was leaked. BBRY says it's for developers only, and that it's not for piracy.

    BBRY is shifting blame. First, for its users illicitly using its "leaked" software, and for those users pirating apps.

    Is it actionable? Dunno. Don't know if it's worth it, either.
    You are making a very valid point. It may really go south for BB if they got this one wrong. I am not a legal expert, hence my question on what BB legal department has to say about this.
    Tre Lawrence and bbq10l like this.
    11-16-13 03:59 PM
  23. IdroidBB10's Avatar
    At first glance I'd guess that Chrome likely depends on Google Play Services, and likely wouldn't work under the best of conditions.
    Even you have Chrome APK, it won't run on BB10 devices. Google Maps also depends on google play service, but it will run(for the most part).1055 leak doesn't make BB10 to android phones. There are lots APK apps can run, but not as functional as its on android devices.
    11-16-13 04:00 PM
  24. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You are making a very valid point. It may really go south for BB if they got this one wrong. I am not a legal expert, hence my question on what BB legal department has to say about this.
    I'm not sure either, but I do believe that BBRY has been exceptionally careful to put the onus on users. That indicates to me that it is VERY aware that this is very murky.
    bekkay and bbq10l like this.
    11-16-13 04:03 PM
  25. JeepBB's Avatar
    I totally agree that you can legitimately buy a firearm and use it for illegal actions, but this is not the issue. I'm asking what the impact on BlackBerry would be if they opened a runtime knowing that it is open to illegitimate actions. Will they do that knowingly and put themselves at risk? They are after all producing the software.
    BB's defence would be the same as those companies that made video recorders and cassette tape recorders... Those devices have a legitimate purpose, namely recording yourself and your family's escapades. The fact that the overwhelming use people made of those devices was to infringe copyright isn't the manufacturers fault and nobody ever successfully sued a VCR maker AFAIK because users copied movies using VCRs.

    Similarly, BB will claim that direct loading of apk's is to make Devs life easier when loading their own Apps, which is what they said about side loading too. And that's true, but will amount to close to 0% of the use people will put this facility to.

    So, BB have no reason to fear the lawyers, but it doesn't make what they're doing right.
    11-16-13 04:03 PM
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