03-02-14 09:12 AM
62 123
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  1. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    It is all perception.. The average Joe doesn't care about specs and how many cores it has... They want a cool phone that works..... Apple has done an amazing job at marketing to the masses.... Android is also great at selling their products to an eager audience... Blackberry has to decide who their market is and market towards it.. Don't try to be a better iPhone or Galaxy.... just be the best Blackberry they can...
    shaleem likes this.
    03-01-14 11:37 AM
  2. lnichols's Avatar
    Still not sure what "ecosystems " mean in this case... do they have to pay for those other things? Iphones don't come with ipods and apple tv now do they?
    Lol premium brand perception.. yea good one.
    IPhone is an iPod with cell, you don't need both. Apple TV is cheap and and provides a lot more functionality for iDevices than a Miracast adapter at half the price. And just because you do not view the brand as premium, does not mean the majority of the rest if the world does. It is clear by the amount that they charge for the specs and internals compared to the competition that the public in general considers the brand's products worthy of a higher price point.

    Big screen.. seriously? High end specs? Again only android fanboys actually give much of a damn about specs. The apple users care very little. You still fail to address my point which is.. a "super spec" phone is only as good until it's next rival release.
    Fastest growing group of fan boys there is, so seems like many people in the US who are not buying iPhones the big screen big spec'd devices appeal to. And while yes a super spec'd phone gets overlooked when the next one comes out, but processor manufactures have product cycles and being at the front of that gives you about a year, and that cycle lines up with your product cycle. BlackBerry releasing a year late processor for the same price gives them poor sales. The numbers don't lie. All the sales guy has to say to the purchaser is. 1080 for $600 and faster processor and apps, or 720 slower processor and fewer apps for $600 and the customer, unless dead set on the lesser is going to go with the other device.

    When was the last time you did something with your phone that only a 1080p octa core can do?
    Today nothing, but apparently the Android emulation on the Z30 is better than the Z10. And we aren't purely talking performance either, it is the price for what you get. Current Gen vs Previous Gen at the same price.

    People thinking they are getting the best value for their money is different from people actually getting the best value for their money

    Posted via CB10
    And it is hard for BlackBerry to say they are providing either right now. Hardware is obviously inferior in internals with the exception of the Paratek antenna in the Z30 which isn't advertised. OS is improved dramatically since the release, but again not advertised. App support and availability is not better than the competition. You need only to look at Windows Phone growth compared to BlackBerry contraction to see that the Nokia strategy of lower price offerings with an immature OS is working better than BlackBerry's strategy of premium pricing.

    Posted via CB10
    Drew808 and JeepBB like this.
    03-01-14 11:49 AM
  3. KemKev's Avatar
    This thread is on to something, in my opinion - time. Blackberry needs to be timely.

    I'm not going to get into the specs thing, that was voiced perfectly, above - it is the timing. Whatever Chen will do with Blackberry it must be delivered in a timely manner, so as to be relevant (this is probably where the foxconn deal comes in). The consumer and enterprise markets have moved on and Blackberry is far too slow on responding. It is going to have to be lean and fast to get something out. And yes, people say the specs are enough blah blah. Blah - blackberry is not selling well by any metric. Adding some glamour must surely help. It needs to stand out, quoting tools not toys ir whatever is not going to work and hasn't worked. Maybe super specs that are timely to the market might work...

    I don't know. I would love a slider that can double as a blinking workstation with an EPIC battery life. I dunno, just hope they move faster than they have been and not open their mouths unless they can deliver.
    When will people stop talking about the OLD BlackBerry (slow, yada yada)? IMO, under new management, they have been doing a good job playing catch up and in some cases, exceeding expectations. Let us give Chen and company a chance before we start doing the death dance on BlackBerry's grave YET AGAIN.
    03-01-14 11:49 AM
  4. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    When will people stop talking about the OLD BlackBerry (slow, yada yada)? IMO, under new management, they have been doing a good job playing catch up and in some cases, exceeding expectations. Let us give Chen and company a chance before we start doing the death dance on BlackBerry's grave YET AGAIN.
    Totally Agree....
    03-01-14 12:21 PM
  5. spikesolie's Avatar
    IPhone is an iPod with cell, you don't need both. Apple TV is cheap and and provides a lot more functionality for iDevices than a Miracast adapter at half the price. And just because you do not view the brand as premium, does not mean the majority of the rest if the world does. It is clear by the amount that they charge for the specs and internals compared to the competition that the public in general considers the brand's products worthy of a higher price point.



    Fastest growing group of fan boys there is, so seems like many people in the US who are not buying iPhones the big screen big spec'd devices appeal to. And while yes a super spec'd phone gets overlooked when the next one comes out, but processor manufactures have product cycles and being at the front of that gives you about a year, and that cycle lines up with your product cycle. BlackBerry releasing a year late processor for the same price gives them poor sales. The numbers don't lie. All the sales guy has to say to the purchaser is. 1080 for $600 and faster processor and apps, or 720 slower processor and fewer apps for $600 and the customer, unless dead set on the lesser is going to go with the other device.



    Today nothing, but apparently the Android emulation on the Z30 is better than the Z10. And we aren't purely talking performance either, it is the price for what you get. Current Gen vs Previous Gen at the same price.



    And it is hard for BlackBerry to say they are providing either right now. Hardware is obviously inferior in internals with the exception of the Paratek antenna in the Z30 which isn't advertised. OS is improved dramatically since the release, but again not advertised. App support and availability is not better than the competition. You need only to look at Windows Phone growth compared to BlackBerry contraction to see that the Nokia strategy of lower price offerings with an immature OS is working better than BlackBerry's strategy of premium pricing.

    Posted via CB10
    You talk about ecosystem as if it comes free. Just because apple release proprietary stuff doesn't make them better. Also just because the public thinks apple is premium don't really make it premium. You know this and I know this! If people start to wear short jeans with beads next to them, the company making them will suddenly become premium. Fashion had trends phones have trends. How many people actually do thorough research before buying a phone? Few.

    Thirdly a growing fan base doesn't mean **** in terms of quality either. People like Samsung and Samsung keeps increasing the size of their phones and people buy it. There are those who don't want more than 4" of screen. Stop using that as a "premium " sign of quality.

    I'm not talking about who's getting more users based on price I'm saying blackberry had built a product thst is . worthy of premium pricing. Whether the public thinks so is different and there's a whole different dimension to BlackBerry not selling than just prices. I'm not gonna go.into that because it's been beaten on before.



    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 01:07 PM
  6. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    You talk about ecosystem as if it comes free. Just because apple release proprietary stuff doesn't make them better. Also just because the public thinks apple is premium don't really make it premium. You know this and I know this! If people start to wear short jeans with beads next to them, the company making them will suddenly become premium. Fashion had trends phones have trends. How many people actually do thorough research before buying a phone? Few.

    Thirdly a growing fan base doesn't mean **** in terms of quality either. People like Samsung and Samsung keeps increasing the size of their phones and people buy it. There are those who don't want more than 4" of screen. Stop using that as a "premium " sign of quality.

    I'm not talking about who's getting more users based on price I'm saying blackberry had built a product thst is . worthy of premium pricing. Whether the public thinks so is different and there's a whole different dimension to BlackBerry not selling than just prices. I'm not gonna go.into that because it's been beaten on before.



    Posted via CB10
    I don't think you understand the concept of "premium branding". There's more to "premium branding" than high prices. The fact that Apple constantly delivers (ie, customer service, packaging, freshness, materials used, etc) on the consumer front makes their brand premium.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    03-01-14 01:21 PM
  7. dguy123's Avatar
    Couple posts in this thread about BlackBerry being no good because people want apps.
    Well, you can directly install android apps.
    So what's this app issue exactly?

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 01:40 PM
  8. wincyUt's Avatar
    One thing for sure is that there is "Wind of Change" in BlackBerry land. So, interesting times ahead because BBRY is listening loud and clear.
    03-01-14 02:03 PM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    Couple posts in this thread about BlackBerry being no good because people want apps.
    Well, you can directly install android apps.
    So what's this app issue exactly?

    Posted via CB10
    Not all apps work. I tried to install a banking app the other day, and it requires Google Services, so it won't operate. SlingPlayer works for a few hours, then doesn't because of a license issue (SNAP's dev is working on another app to address this). In addition to that, I had to sideload So there is still an app issue compared to the other devices. Someone first has to learn how to get the apps, then they have to deal with the fact that not all will work. People committed to BlackBerry will deal with this, but it probably won't bring in new users.

    Oh I also had to install a leak because BlackBerry hasn't made WIFI Calling work with T-Mobile and they won't push the update until this works. It took me a few try to get the Sachesi update process to work.

    Posted via CB10
    LuvULongTime, JeepBB and richardat like this.
    03-01-14 02:28 PM
  10. spikesolie's Avatar
    I don't think you understand the concept of "premium branding". There's more to "premium branding" than high prices. The fact that Apple constantly delivers (ie, customer service, packaging, freshness, materials used, etc) on the consumer front makes their brand premium.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    Wtf is freshness? Seriously packaging? I'm not even sure I can keep debating this. I'm failing to see anything that genuinely makes sense

    Posted via CB10
    Andy_bb_king likes this.
    03-01-14 02:41 PM
  11. spikesolie's Avatar
    Not all apps work. I tried to install a banking app the other day, and it requires Google Services, so it won't operate. SlingPlayer works for a few hours, then doesn't because of a license issue (SNAP's dev is working on another app to address this). In addition to that, I had to sideload So there is still an app issue compared to the other devices. Someone first has to learn how to get the apps, then they have to deal with the fact that not all will work. People committed to BlackBerry will deal with this, but it probably won't bring in new users.

    Oh I also had to install a leak because BlackBerry hasn't made WIFI Calling work with T-Mobile and they won't push the update until this works. It took me a few try to get the Sachesi update process to work.

    Posted via CB10
    Agree up until the leak part. Since every other carrier around the world except American carrier has updated, we can deduce it's probably their fault rather than bb

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 02:43 PM
  12. antikorr's Avatar
    Okay, guys! Maybe I exaggerated a bit saying I'd buy a new BlackBerry for $1000. $600 is more of a real deal.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not some delusional fan boy (though I admit, at some good point I kinda am), who just want to throw money on everything BlackBerry creates.

    I just want to see a strong company making competitive smartphones. That's all.

    And I'm ready to support BlackBerry with my money. Without going overly crazy.

    Basically, I agree that even Z30 with its pretty outdated specs is capable of doing lots of difficult tasks and actually does all I need. But, alas, it's not enough to win over new users. And without new users there's no growth.

    BlackBerry needs to steal iPhone and Android user base a bit. Or attract those who are disgusted by both of them and are still in search for the holy grail smartphone. BlackBerry can be the one! But in order to become one, it must wear all the shiny and powerful armory it can get.

    That's my humble opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 03:40 PM
  13. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Wtf is freshness? Seriously packaging? I'm not even sure I can keep debating this. I'm failing to see anything that genuinely makes sense

    Posted via CB10
    There's no debate. Apple has the makings of what makes a brand premium (kudos to Inichols for making it plain &simple), however you refuse to see it. Do yourself a favor and look up what makes a brand premium. Your findings will show that Apple fits that mold.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    LuvULongTime, Drew808 and JeepBB like this.
    03-01-14 04:07 PM
  14. badiyee's Avatar
    There's no debate. Apple has the makings of what makes a brand premium (kudos to Inichols for making it plain &simple), however you refuse to see it. Do yourself a favor and look up what makes a brand premium. Your findings will show that Apple fits that mold.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    Oh please. A thieving company is now a premium company. I did not know that beat selling company becomes premium.

    I mean, you sure got your language right?

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 04:52 PM
  15. badiyee's Avatar
    Take it easy OP. I think if you are going with specs it's going to be a problem with "i've got a lamboghini diabolo with super slick tyres but eight now i'm in a Sahara dessert and..." kind of a situation.

    I'm more concerned about how BlackBerry isn't pushing down the low end spec of things when companies like Google and Microsoft who are trying to make their mobile operating systems to work on as lower end hardware as possible, and indirectly supporting older hardware.

    It's easy to just bump up specs to cover the lack of optimization but optimising things, making things leaner should have been made as a top priority by BlackBerry management.



    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 04:59 PM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Agree up until the leak part. Since every other carrier around the world except American carrier has updated, we can deduce it's probably their fault rather than bb

    Posted via CB10
    For non Wifi Calling US carriers yes it is the carriers fault. We know the WiFi calling app doesn't work with the leaks, and T-Mobile has publicly stated they will release the update when BlackBerry makes Wifi calling works so........

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 05:01 PM
  17. badiyee's Avatar
    For non Wifi Calling US carriers yes it is the carriers fault. We know the WiFi calling app doesn't work with the leaks, and T-Mobile has publicly stated they will release the update when BlackBerry makes Wifi calling works so........

    Posted via CB10
    I think something is very wrong with the American carriers if non American carriers outside of USA that are much less advanced and sophisticated than the ones in USA can push out BlackBerry upgrades faster than the ones in USA.



    Posted via CB on BB10
    03-01-14 05:17 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    All I know is that I test drove a Z30 back to back with a S4. The text image was much sharper on the Samsung.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    03-01-14 05:30 PM
  19. spikesolie's Avatar
    There's no debate. Apple has the makings of what makes a brand premium (kudos to Inichols for making it plain &simple), however you refuse to see it. Do yourself a favor and look up what makes a brand premium. Your findings will show that Apple fits that mold.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    Smh I just couldn't believe when you mentioned "freshness ".. had me rolling

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 05:35 PM
  20. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Smh I just couldn't believe when you mentioned "freshness ".. had me rolling

    Posted via CB10
    Lol no worries. Post #30 is hilarious.


    Sent from my  using CB Forums
    03-01-14 05:37 PM
  21. spikesolie's Avatar
    For non Wifi Calling US carriers yes it is the carriers fault. We know the WiFi calling app doesn't work with the leaks, and T-Mobile has publicly stated they will release the update when BlackBerry makes Wifi calling works so........

    Posted via CB10
    If I'm right which I am, tmobile is the only carrier who back up wifi calling... what about att and Verizon.

    Exactly so we already have 2or 3 major carrier not pushing the update regardless

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 05:38 PM
  22. spikesolie's Avatar
    Lol no worries. Post #30 is hilarious.


    Sent from my  using CB Forums
    I can't see post #s but knowing you, you probably bought an iPhone because it's fresh... namsaying?

    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 05:42 PM
  23. shaleem's Avatar
    People buy what they like. The majority are not techno-geeks and could not care less about specs.

    Posted using my Z10
    03-01-14 05:59 PM
  24. early2bed's Avatar
    Nothing that Chen has said over the past couple of months would suggest that Blackberry is going to be coming out with a spec-leading flagship phone. They are going enterprise and keyboard with retro-belt. thats what the carriers will accept. There's no point in having a flagship when you're not competing in the consumer space.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-01-14 06:13 PM
  25. collinc93's Avatar
    Why pay $1000 for what Sony sells for $600? The OS isn't worth a $400 premium. BlackBerry's poor sales can be attributed to selling middling hardware, with an incomplete OS, a tarnished name brand on the front if the device, and a huge app gap at the price of devices that haven't had these issues. This dates all the way back to BBOS.

    While they are addressing the issues, they need to sell the devices at lower price right now to give a value add and rebuild the brand name. The Z30 isn't even easily accessible to the majority of people in their largest existing user base market, the US, and it again is middling specs at a flagship device, like the Z10, with no advertising, and like the Z10 no one is buying it (and I have a Z10).

    Businesses won't spend $1000 on a phone either. You don't win back customers with overpriced hardware from a brand that is in the crapper.

    Posted via CB10
    you jumped the ship on BB.....I think they have given up on the US--for now.....I personally hope they can exist without needing the US as a major market (wishful thinking) too fickle...
    03-01-14 07:34 PM
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