View Poll Results: Should RIM buy PALM?

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214. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES

    96 44.86%
  • NO

    75 35.05%
  • I DON'T CARE

    43 20.09%
08-30-09 12:57 PM
60 123
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  1. defcon3's Avatar
    There it is. It all started in this thread, one idea bounced off another and this poll was born.

    I think RIM should have bought Palm about a year ago, when Palm was fighting for survival. To me they did not foresee the new Palm coming which is clearly poor judgment and lack of Business Intelligence. What do you think? Are they late? Are they on track? Should they touch them at all or just run them over in the open market?


    Do you think RIM should buy PALM?
    Last edited by defcon3; 07-21-09 at 05:09 AM.
    07-21-09 05:03 AM
  2. tpapa5520's Avatar
    it would probably never happen though, for more reasons then Palm won't sell.
    07-21-09 06:11 AM
  3. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Correction...this actually started back in January - the day Palm announced the Pre. I was there to see the announcement and immediately told Dieter that RIM should buy Palm right now. I tossed the idea around shortly after that in the CrackBerry podcasts and even in May at WES went on record in front of a big audience to talk about it!

    Check out the video for my reasoning... I'm the last speaker towards the end in this Bloggers Predict the Future of BlackBerry segment:

    http://crackberry.com/wes2009-blogge...ure-blackberry


    Probably wouldn't happen, but a BB with Palm Web OS or a variant of it could be cool. Or RIM just doing some tweaking of their OS to be a little more Palm Web OS/Android like. I like the way Web OS does multitasking with cards (little more visually intuitive than BB) and the way Web OS does notifications (resizing the open app to display them where you can choose to view or dismiss). Two good features I'd love to see on BB.

    Good Poll. Once it gets some more votes we'll have to run the results on the blogs.
    07-21-09 06:30 AM
  4. defcon3's Avatar
    @Kev: Forgive me, I did not intend in any way to claim first-to-come-up with the idea. Quite to the contrary, in the linked post I did reference your latest podcast and the talk on Palm/RIM

    I highly doubt RIM will open that much - they have a segment which is quite lucrative and chances are, it will remain that way: DOD, MOD, NSA, FBI and their respective world counterparts all rely on BB and chances are none of the competitors, be it WinMo (with few exceptions) or Android or WebOS will offer equal or better security. But... That is only true and valid for the coming 5 years or so. Question is - then what

    I think there are enough examples out there offering a mix of open and closed. Take for example Red Hat. They have their paid products under the RED HAT brand - rock solid desktops, servers, middleware - on one side. On the other, they run the Fedora Project, which is bleeding edge, open, latest-and-greatest. All innovation happens at Fedora, with thousands of people collaborating and giving input. Once a proposed feature or solution is proven stable and desired - it goes into Red Hat and is sold under commercial license. And don't anyone dare discard Red Hat as just-another-company, as they recently joined the S&P500 and are among few in the tech sector (alas, like RIM) who actually make money in times of crisis. Take also SugarCRM and Alfresco, I mean the examples are so many.

    There is nothing wrong if RIM morph into a hybrid model of Apple+RedHat. What I mean by that is:
    take Apple's approach on hardware - everything runs exclusively on RIM hardware (introduce hardware device PIN chips like Apple did, if you will)
    PLUS
    take RedHat's approach on software - everything beta, call it HackBerry, is out for hacking/changing/improving, everything rock solid is BlackBerry Software

    BIS users can install HackBerry or Blackberry - anything goes, BES users run exclusively BlackBerry backed by the quality RIM is so admired for.

    This way they will keep their hardware revenue and tap into the dev community. Some say this is Pandora's box - once you open it, there is no turning back. True, but this is the future - open and hybrid business models.

    The thing is, this kind of vision is part of strategic decisions. Palm were almost dead a year ago, for them this was a MUST change. For Palm it wasn't a matter of choice, it was do-or-die. Now RIM have a choice but to my mind in a fairly limited window of time.
    07-21-09 07:21 AM
  5. SilverLight98's Avatar
    yes they should - RIM would have to spend so much time upgrading the OS to match competitors. Great software with awesome hardware
    07-21-09 07:41 AM
  6. XtremeBerry's Avatar
    Simply....NO. Should MS buy Sony? no. Why, because they compliment each other. Without either, neither would be great. Compitition is a win win for the consumer whether for pricing or product. Having Palm, Apple and BB makes for great devices for all different types and tastes of people and it keeps all the companies on their toes. Capitalism at its finest.
    07-21-09 07:55 AM
  7. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    @defcon. no worries my friend. was just throwing it out there in case that vid was never seen by others before. all good.

    and you raise many good points. interesting times in the smartphone space!
    07-21-09 07:59 AM
  8. Riders On The Storm's Avatar
    Simply....NO. Should MS buy Sony? no. Why, because they compliment each other. Without either, neither would be great. Compitition is a win win for the consumer whether for pricing or product. Having Palm, Apple and BB makes for great devices for all different types and tastes of people and it keeps all the companies on their toes. Capitalism at its finest.
    Perfectly said. Having Palm in the game means that RIM will need to innovate, and that is what we need.

    I do believe RIM could refocus it's efforts. This is going out on a limb, but they could possibly consider creating a "consumer" phone unit. The current division could develop clearance level phones, ones whose security features are far beyond the demand of a typical consumer, more for government and business. I think then RIM could look at marketing a "smartphone for the masses." This brand could target Apple and Palm, offering innovation and flash. Both could be available to consumers to consumers, but I think there would be greater success if RIM could offer a phone that I feel truly appeals to "average Joe" who doesn't need or use encrypted emails, etc.

    That's just my $.02...
    Last edited by Riders On The Storm; 07-21-09 at 08:12 AM.
    07-21-09 08:09 AM
  9. armedtank's Avatar
    I think this would be a great move for RIM, BBOS is simple and intuitive to use, anyone can pick up a BB and almost immediately become efficient with it. In the past that has been a strong selling point, but it's OS no longer feels "modern" as compared to the competition. Apple, Google and Palm have shown that a device can have a flashy OS and still be easy to use and I honestly think these UI wars caught RIM off guard hence the poor offering they made with Storm 1.

    RIM built it's reputation on email, security and enterprise device management and it must continue to lead in these areas since those things keep the lights on so to speak. Buying themselves a top shelf OS, or allowing other operating systems to ride on top of their messaging subsystem would allow them to do what they do best and continue to innovate in the space. I personally don't think buying Palm would have a negative impact on competition or innovation over the long term, there are far too many players who want to be contenders in this rapidly growing market for that to happen. I believe merging these two companies would result in a product that would force everyone else to raise the bar even higher, we as consumers would benefit both directly and indirectly from a merger like this.
    Last edited by armedtank; 07-21-09 at 08:23 AM.
    07-21-09 08:17 AM
  10. XtremeBerry's Avatar
    Perfectly said. Having Palm in the game means that RIM will need to innovate, and that is what we need.

    I do believe RIM could refocus it's efforts. This is going out on a limb, but they could possibly consider creating a "consumer" phone unit. The current division could develop clearance level phones, ones whose security features are far beyond the demand of a typical consumer, more for government and business. I think then RIM could look at marketing a "smartphone for the masses." This brand could target Apple and Palm, offering innovation and flash. Both could be available to consumers to consumers, but I think there would be greater success if RIM could offer a phone that I feel truly appeals to "average Joe" who doesn't need or use encrypted emails, etc.

    That's just my $.02...
    I agree with this totally. A consumer phone that targets non biz individuals ie. Iphone like and still the 8830/Tour/Bold phone for the execs. As far as that goes havent indivduals in the know hinted as 2010 being a "game changer". Maybe you are not that far off
    Last edited by XtremeBerry; 07-21-09 at 08:36 AM.
    07-21-09 08:34 AM
  11. Riders On The Storm's Avatar
    Unfortunately I do not know enough about WebOS nor the Blackberry OS, but by allowing a sort of hybrid [utilizing Palm's strengths with BB's superior messaging] or allowing some software to run over the BB messaging clients, doesn't this create potential for security failures? I believe because RIM integrates their hardware and software (similarly to Apple) creates a strong, secure system.

    I feel that growth would have to happen from within, not just be purchased. What RIM could look at doing is hiring in more outside engineers, especially if they come from Palm or Apple, because fresh ideas should be welcomed.
    07-21-09 08:41 AM
  12. Techark's Avatar
    No they should not.
    Why would they? The cost to acquire Palm would be prohibitive at this point and the debts it has are too great. I don't see the numbers from Pre sales that will pull Palm out of the debt cycle soon unless it get a serious cash infusion.

    Now what I think someone needs to do, be it RIM or some other smart investor is give Palm a cash infusion in exchange for rights to the WebOS. Then take that WebOS and move it from the phone to the net book and on to platforms like touch screen tables, and embedded devices etc. And yes someone like RIM could use parts of the WebOs to bring their OS and phones up to standard.
    07-21-09 08:43 AM
  13. charlespowell's Avatar
    coolnhjklhlkjhlkjgghkf
    07-21-09 08:44 AM
  14. armedtank's Avatar
    One trend I find disturbing is the seemingly pervasive idea that an OS modern in form and functionality is something desirable only to consumers. I work with Senior Executives for some of the largest companies in the US on a daily basis, and to assume that OSX and WebOS type operating systems are something that should be relegated to the consumer space is flat out wrong. This is the 21st century and modern hardware and software are capable of delivering this kind user experience WITH top notch security and functionality as well. They are not all 70 year olds who think two-way pagers are still the pinnacle of technology, most of the 70+ year olds don't think that way either, stop underestimating the customer base..........

    Edit: I realize this post veers slightly off the topic of discussion so a mod may delete to keep the thread focused....
    Last edited by armedtank; 07-21-09 at 09:14 AM.
    07-21-09 09:01 AM
  15. Andrax's Avatar
    Unfortunately I do not know enough about WebOS nor the Blackberry OS, but by allowing a sort of hybrid [utilizing Palm's strengths with BB's superior messaging]
    BB trumps PALM in Email Messaging, but SMS goes to Palm hands down. The beautiful integrated THREADED SMS setup on a Palm device blows BB out of the water 6 ways from Sunday.

    Hopefully BB will get 5.x out soon and fix this. As a new BB user (Tour) coming from a Treo 755p, this is one of my very few gripes about my new device. The SMS interface is terribly cluttered compared to my old TREO.
    07-21-09 09:16 AM
  16. Ronindan's Avatar
    Not really a good idea. Absorbing company such Palm who as a strong organizational culture will just create problems for RIM.
    07-21-09 09:33 AM
  17. andrewa124's Avatar
    RIM has no need to buy Palm. They are doing well enough on their own and soon enough will crush all competition. Even Kids want to get their hands on BB. So I don't think RIM should have or should by Palm of any other company.
    07-21-09 09:45 AM
  18. Riders On The Storm's Avatar
    One trend I find disturbing is the seemingly pervasive idea that an OS modern in form and functionality is something desirable only to consumers. I work with Senior Executives for some of the largest companies in the US on a daily basis, and to assume that OSX and WebOS type operating systems are something that should be relegated to the consumer space is flat out wrong. This is the 21st century and modern hardware and software are capable of delivering this kind user experience WITH top notch security and functionality as well. They are not all 70 year olds who think two-way pagers are still the pinnacle of technology, most of the 70+ year olds don't think that way either, stop underestimating the customer base..........
    I apologize if I have added to your frustration with a possibly misinformed belief that businesses tend to only focus on security and they do not have a desire to see a more modern OS in their business devices. I believe this comes with the mentality [whether it is right or not] that "Blackberries are the better business phone." If what Blackberry offers is "best" for business and that is a less flashy OS with such great security and emailing, then it is easy to see where the belief comes from, especially if you are not as active in the business community.

    With that said, I think the question is whether RIM wants to change and have a more sleek, modern OS. Purchasing Palm would not make Blackberry OS's flashy overnight, it would be have to be a shift supported by all levels of the organization. With the leaks of OS 5 we have seen, RIM is not making that change yet and buying Palm would be a waste of capital.

    Unless of course, they were trying to buy up their competitors.
    07-21-09 09:56 AM
  19. oakindustries's Avatar
    Palm is circling the toilet. The Pre is a cool phone but they missed so many things when they made it. No expandable memory? No video capability? Weak to miss so many easy options that have become standard on lesser phones. Blackberry should finish driving them out of the market and buy up the pieces when they are done killing them.
    07-21-09 09:57 AM
  20. Ronindan's Avatar
    I apologize if I have added to your frustration with a possibly misinformed belief that businesses tend to only focus on security and they do not have a desire to see a more modern OS in their business devices. I believe this comes with the mentality [whether it is right or not] that "Blackberries are the better business phone." If what Blackberry offers is "best" for business and that is a less flashy OS with such great security and emailing, then it is easy to see where the belief comes from, especially if you are not as active in the business community.

    With that said, I think the question is whether RIM wants to change and have a more sleek, modern OS. Purchasing Palm would not make Blackberry OS's flashy overnight, it would be have to be a shift supported by all levels of the organization. With the leaks of OS 5 we have seen, RIM is not making that change yet and buying Palm would be a waste of capital.

    Unless of course, they were trying to buy up their competitors.

    Well security and communication is till what drives the interest of bb's in the corporate world. It is not about how smooth or flashy it is; it still about getting work done. And of course having an affordable device. I have not heard an exec or manager complain that his bb is boring, they usually complain about the security rules that their IT group enforce on their bb.

    In fact the managers that I deal with who use the storm prefers it over the curve XXX, tour, bold - simply because large screen. lol
    07-21-09 10:18 AM
  21. armedtank's Avatar
    I apologize if I have added to your frustration with a possibly misinformed belief that businesses tend to only focus on security and they do not have a desire to see a more modern OS in their business devices. I believe this comes with the mentality [whether it is right or not] that "Blackberries are the better business phone." If what Blackberry offers is "best" for business and that is a less flashy OS with such great security and emailing, then it is easy to see where the belief comes from, especially if you are not as active in the business community.

    With that said, I think the question is whether RIM wants to change and have a more sleek, modern OS. Purchasing Palm would not make Blackberry OS's flashy overnight, it would be have to be a shift supported by all levels of the organization. With the leaks of OS 5 we have seen, RIM is not making that change yet and buying Palm would be a waste of capital.

    Unless of course, they were trying to buy up their competitors.
    No offense taken here, I have just seen this statement come up in many different topics and I was simply pointing out that I fee the statement is incorrect. Your mileage may vary.

    You are absolutely right in stating that RIM would see no immediate benefit with the exception of Palm hardware sales which would more than likely be offset by the paying off of Palm's debt which RIM would also be buying. No improvement to the RIM core products would be realized until the Palm IP is properly integrated with the BB platform, this would take several years to implement properly.

    Blackberries are superior business phones based on security and enterprise management features when a proper BES implementation is considered, that I would never deny, i've used them for years. What I do deny is that these functions along with a modern looking and feeling OS are required to be mutually exclusive attributes of a RIM smartphone offering....
    07-21-09 10:30 AM
  22. defcon3's Avatar
    While few will disagree that RIM organically improving ("from within") is far better than cashing out for a competitor but then the real question is "Can they pull it off"?

    Lately RIM has been populating their product list (low, mid, high-end) rather than focusing on one shared software platform and pushing hard there. The competition is sharp-pointed:
    Apple have 2 devices + one OS
    Palm have 1 device + one OPEN OS
    WinMo is not really any competitor here
    Symbian is also going all-open
    Android has one OPEN OS and suppliers delivering according to software spec
    RIM has 10+ devices, some phasing out, some coming in, with 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 5.1 and 5.2 OS versions...
    All I am saying they are spreading thin at a time when all competitors are running a tight ship, so buying a competitor or going hybrid may be the *only* solution
    07-22-09 02:29 AM
  23. Polychrome's Avatar
    What? The Pre doesn't support SD memory?

    I didn't know this! D:
    07-22-09 02:39 AM
  24. Mr Bigs's Avatar
    Palm is circling the toilet. The Pre is a cool phone but they missed so many things when they made it. No expandable memory? No video capability? Weak to miss so many easy options that have become standard on lesser phones. Blackberry should finish driving them out of the market and buy up the pieces when they are done killing them.
    RIM doesn't have expandable memory either and Palm starts out with more. Also video is just software and promised. Palm is what RIM needs to be more user friendly and intuitive. Had RIM purchased Palm before the Storm the results would have been better.
    07-22-09 07:06 PM
  25. cjohnson481's Avatar
    RIM has 10+ devices, some phasing out, some coming in, with 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 5.1 and 5.2 OS versions...
    All I am saying they are spreading thin
    couldnt agree more with your point here. i think that when you have so many devices, it becomes more difficult for developers to produce applications that work for all of the devices and software. you have varying screen sizes, inputs styles (trackball, touchscreen, and trackpad coming), capabilities within the operating system, etc.

    i think that once they launch the closer to launch handsets, they should focus on some of the issues that have been raised with new OS in their competitive space. im not saying that they need to move to web OS or completely change what they have now, but make sure they have some flashy stuff in there. see how those in there competitive space are doing things, ie Palm and Apple's threaded text messaging, the way Android's apps work with one another, Google Maps, etc. It will be interesting to see what will happen with RIMs acquisition of the GPS company (cant remember the name). there are good things to come, as many have seen with 5.0 OS, and just like Kevin said, its an exciting time in the smartphone space right now!

    and now to the original point of the thread. i voted no. rim shouldnt buy palm. say there was one producer of widgets in the world. you would only be able to buy that type of widget and would be subject to whatever the manufacturer of the widget wanted it do function, wanted that particular form, and so on. with competition comes innovation. you need to have external pressures that force you to do business in a different way, create different products and move into new ventures. without competition at different levels, you can fall flat and no one is there to push you out of the marketplace.
    Last edited by CJohnson481; 07-23-09 at 10:53 AM. Reason: didnt finish thought.
    07-23-09 10:30 AM
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