07-19-16 08:50 PM
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  1. Jerry A's Avatar
    Since every remaining BBOS user is basically pure service fee profit for BlackBerry, I don't see how it cannot be feasible by adding more revenue if new devices were made.

    While everybody blamed the carriers for "not liking BIS" 5 years later it's actually the carriers that are keeping BIS alive despite BB trying to kill it.
    Go back and see my previous posts. I'm managing a slew of devices on BIS and BES and BlackBerry isn't making any revenue from them.

    Not every user is pure profit.
    03-19-16 05:27 PM
  2. Jerry A's Avatar
    BBOS numbers were always reported as active subscribers, clue is in the name, active. BB know exactly how many legacy activations they have.

    Now I don't remember BB evert reporting on BB10 active subscribers, unless I missed it.
    Agreed. Our point of contention it's whether or not Active == Paying.
    03-19-16 05:45 PM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Go back and see my previous posts. I'm managing a slew of devices on BIS and BES and BlackBerry isn't making any revenue from them.

    Not every user is pure profit.
    I highly doubt it, that would mean UK has had free BIS for the last 10 years? I don't think so.
    03-19-16 05:52 PM
  4. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Just searched the hashtag #Bold9900 in Twitter and just see what people are still saying about this topic. People still talking about "finding their 9900's in a drawer and wanting to use them again." Others saying "I wish my Classic was the size of my 9900," etc. It goes on and on.

    If they did come out with a modernized 9900 sized device with new guts you BET they would sell. But of course it would have to have power, speed and be an updated version.



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    idssteve likes this.
    03-19-16 05:54 PM
  5. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    BD, perhaps it is different for other carriers, but in the US, T-Mobile ended the BIS subscription plans in 2013, when they launched the Simple Choice Plan. They can put a free add on BlackBerry plan to the account, but it is not sending any revenue to BlackBerry for the older BIS type data plan. If carriers add a surcharge to customers for a BlackBerry plan, that is a pure profit now to the carrier.

    A free BlackBerry add-on is available on request by Simple Choice plan users. It provides BIS support which is required for BlackBerry Messenger and Email on pre- BlackBerry OS 10 devices. Although it isn't mentioned on the T-Mobile site, the BlackBerry add-on reportedly is also available for $10/month extra on the $30/month unlimited data, 100 minute plan.
    Updated: The Best US Prepaid Phone Plans For Data Users | Prepaid Phone News
    03-19-16 06:14 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Just searched the hashtag #Bold9900 in Twitter and just see what people are still saying about this topic. People still talking about "finding their 9900's in a drawer and wanting to use them again." Others saying "I wish my Classic was the size of my 9900," etc. It goes on and on.

    If they did come out with a modernized 9900 sized device with new guts you BET they would sell. But of course it would have to have power, speed and be an updated version.



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I don't doubt they could sell some... But would they sell 10k or a million.

    I pull my old Palm Treo out the other day before using it on a $100 trade in for any smartphone. Didn't take my long to realize how outdated the OS was.

    Don't think any amount of memory or processing power would make the BBOS browser usable for me.
    03-19-16 06:16 PM
  7. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    I don't doubt they could sell some... But would they sell 10k or a million.

    I pull my old Palm Treo out the other day before using it on a $100 trade in for any smartphone. Didn't take my long to realize how outdated the OS was.

    Don't think any amount of memory or processing power would make the BBOS browser usable for me.
    lol @ the Palm but ya I'm what you can call a "power user" as I used an iphone for 2 solid years and now having no problems using a 9900 for EVERYTHING. I also have 15K followers in Twitter and I needed a proper keyboard for quick responses or I get left behind in no time flat! Trust me, the 9900 of old can still handle it with a 1.2 GHZ processor.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    03-19-16 06:30 PM
  8. Frehley's Avatar
    How many times and how many different ways do I have to reiterate that resurrecting BBOS is unrealistic folly? This entire thread is devoted to a proposition that cannot be realistically implemented simply because the required talent cannot be realistically re-assembled. Unrealistic = virtual, IMO.

    12M existing users. 11M users projected to migrate elsewhere THIS year. "Virtual" numbers derived from other posts in this thread. I believe that 11M projection was based on last year's bbos decline. I, myself, suspect that continued decline might not be so linearly proportional.

    Please point out where I indicated in any way that ALL of existing userbase would migrate. ??? OR that legacy markets might provide everlasting opportunities? At issue is BB's survival. For the next few years. Once Android demonstrates overwhelming profit, it might THEN make sense to abandon legacy for good. Till then, the potential for aiding BB's survival shouldn't be surrendered without due consideration.

    I completely agree that BB10.3.2 NEEDed to intro a month after that stupid "obsolescence announcement" in Fall of 2011. On cue with announcement timing. Just too way off delivering on the announcement. Lol.

    Of course this wasn't the first time Dan Dodge's crew had over promised, under delivered while adding years to timing. Ask Gateway. Lol.

    Btw, you'd equated market presence with rotary phone legacy. I equated market presence with BIS. How long carriers provide the services depends on how well they value their existing markets. Something BB might learn a little about.
    Pompous gasbag...I believe that the main thrust of this thread was should BlackBerry bring back BBOS and the legacy devices. Not if was technically feasible.

    I really don't care "how many times and how many different ways" that you have to reiterate that resurrecting BBOS is unrealistic folly.

    It seems that there are other members of this community that would like to have the legacy OS and maybe a legacy phone. Just expressing our opinions.
    03-19-16 07:23 PM
  9. Jerry A's Avatar
    I highly doubt it, that would mean UK has had free BIS for the last 10 years? I don't think so.
    Ditto in the US. I'm not doubting it.

    Makes no sense for a telecom company to make less money on BB users, dovetails nicely with the BIS infrastructure not seeing significant updates and upgrades after 2009, and explains the concentration on markets where BIS was still a value-add service (ie "emerging").

    But this is all speculation.
    03-19-16 07:31 PM
  10. Jerry A's Avatar
    Pompous gasbag...I believe that the main thrust of this thread was should BlackBerry bring back BBOS and the legacy devices. Not if was technically feasible.

    I really don't care "how many times and how many different ways" that you have to reiterate that resurrecting BBOS is unrealistic folly.

    It seems that there are other members of this community that would like to have the legacy OS and maybe a legacy phone. Just expressing our opinions.
    Easy there. A question was posed and a discussion started. No need to jump all over someone for having a dissenting opinion.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-19-16 07:37 PM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I think this thread is a harbinger of CB's future.
    A whole lot of looking back and discussing what could have been.
    JeepBB and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    03-19-16 07:38 PM
  12. Sigurbergur's Avatar
    BD, perhaps it is different for other carriers, but in the US, T-Mobile ended the BIS subscription plans in 2013, when they launched the Simple Choice Plan. They can put a free add on BlackBerry plan to the account, but it is not sending any revenue to BlackBerry for the older BIS type data plan. If carriers add a surcharge to customers for a BlackBerry plan, that is a pure profit now to the carrier.



    Updated: The Best US Prepaid Phone Plans For Data Users | Prepaid Phone News
    The two carriers who offered BIS here in Iceland both stopped in 2013 as well. Do you think it's possible for them to add this BlackBerry plan to any normal data plan since they had access to the BlackBerry network before with ordinary BIS subscriptions?

    When using BB10 on those two carriers I get the four dots and can use BBM. But when I use them on newer smaller networks, that never offered BIS, the four dots only appear on WiFi and BBM won't work without WiFi.

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 07:51 PM
  13. Frehley's Avatar
    Easy there. A question was posed and a discussion started. No need to jump all over someone for having a dissenting opinion.
    OK, maybe a little strong, but I believe that the thrust of this thread was should BB bring back the legacy OS and devices...not a technical discussion, or lack of resources at BlackBerry.

    Sorry if I have offended anyone.
    03-19-16 08:06 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    OK, maybe a little strong, but I believe that the thrust of this thread was should BB bring back the legacy OS and devices...not a technical discussion, or lack of resources at BlackBerry.

    Sorry if I have offended anyone.
    Sorry but the two issues are linked . Currently we have BIS but for how long? The carriers will stop when the large accounts stop using BBOS ...soon.

    Also it is a myth that there is a large group of current BBOS users that would prefer to own an updated BBOS device over an Android, iOS or Microsoft phone. There is no anecdotal or factual evidence to support this belief.
    TgeekB likes this.
    03-19-16 09:05 PM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    OK, maybe a little strong, but I believe that the thrust of this thread was should BB bring back the legacy OS and devices...not a technical discussion, or lack of resources at BlackBerry.

    Sorry if I have offended anyone.

    Lol, no offense taken I've been called much worse. Lol. Like you, I'm a long time defender and advocate of BBOS, and especially the 9900. I consider the 9900 to be the best communications device to ever fit into a single human hand!! Of course I believe BB SHOULD be still making legacy devices, and or SHOULD have already provided legitimate upgrades for our aging 9900s!

    The non-toolbelt Q10 was a betrayal and the oversized, overweight fixed battery Classic, predictably, failed as a legitimate successor to the Bold.

    I would love nothing more than to see an upgraded 9900. I don't, sadly, see that happening for practical (technical) reasons and therefore qualified my logic ADVOCATING for BBOS's resurrection as "virtual logic" (IE "should") in a previous exchange. Read the whole exchange and other posts and you might find I'm more ally than foe. ???

    This thread is 21 pages long and it has drifted all over the place. My apologies if I've contributed to that drift.
    03-19-16 09:34 PM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    Sorry but the two issues are linked . Currently we have BIS but for how long? The carriers will stop when the large accounts stop using BBOS ...soon.

    Also it is a myth that there is a large group of current BBOS users that would prefer to own an updated BBOS device over an Android, iOS or Microsoft phone. There is no anecdotal or factual evidence to support this belief.
    Maybe the fact that iOS and Android have been out there for the past five years since newest legacy and these users haven't yet migrated? Where's the anecdotal or factual evidence that these users don't simply LIKE their BBOS devices?
    Last edited by idssteve; 03-19-16 at 10:12 PM.
    03-19-16 09:39 PM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The available annecdotal evidence suggests that many of the BBOS units are hand me down units or purchased used . The main reason that they are still in use is that they are cheap, reliable and on low data plans.

    Did you know that Indonesia and Nigeria together have 400 million cell phones in use. These old BlackBerry. Hot spots no doubt is where you will find the majority of BBOS units still in play.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 03-20-16 at 01:11 AM.
    03-19-16 11:17 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The available annecdotal evidence suggests that many of the BBOS units are hand me down units or purchased used . The main reason that they are still in use is that they are cheap, reliable and on low data plans.

    Did you know that Indonesia and Nigeria together have 400 million cell phones in use. These old BlackBerry. Hot spots no doubt is where you will find the majority of BBOS units still in play.
    Where exactly do you get this evidence from? Another guy above seem to be convinced they're all business users instead.
    03-20-16 03:08 AM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    Where exactly do you get this evidence from? Another guy above seem to be convinced they're all business users instead.
    I believe (no proof) that those are the two man demographics. If not, we would see them in Consumer's hands in the west and Europe.

    In fact, I would venture to guess again, that a large amount of business users also have a non-BBOS personal phone.
    03-20-16 07:53 AM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    I know next to nothing about Nigeria but a handful of cherished clients is in Indonesia. I haven't traveled there since just before BB10 release (Christmas 012?) but maintain daily contact with them and their Bolds. They can certainly afford ANY device. AFAIK, BBM is still a big deal in that nation. BlackBerry is still a big deal there, AFAIK. The hand full of folks I still work with there value legacy over BB10 simply because they view it as a more productive communications platform. This is a multicultural, multi linguistic nation where you don't travel very far without boats or planes. BBM works for them. Swappable batteries work for them. These handful view Facebook as incompatible with their work ethos. Just a handful so... Fwiw.

    I do know, from direct experience, that Indonesia has a significant industrial sector including automotive production surpassing at least a few European Nations. I wouldn't dare to stereotype the handful of "industrialists" I know as "impoverished tribesmen using handed down smartphones".

    Do I expect my experience necessarily extrapolates to all of 12M users? Of course not. Just my tiny sample FWIW.
    Last edited by idssteve; 03-20-16 at 11:41 AM.
    03-20-16 11:29 AM
  21. bobshine's Avatar
    What does this use case scenario even have to do with anything? You're jumping from arguement to arguement whenever you are losing, like trying to come out with any possible spin. Just because you work at a Canadian bank that used to use bbos devices and now uses ios, doesnt make you a subject matter expert on anything. Are you a banker or a technology analyst? Plus, your bank isnt one of the good ones anyway as they dont even make any bb10 apps. CIBC does, so you obviously dont work there. So, dont judge all situations using your bank office window as the template, bobshine.

    Your grandiose statement about BBOS not being supported by any carrier severely diminishes your credibility. All I can say at this point is, if BlackBerry had or currently has people on the inside with your combative mindset, then its no wonder why they are failing.
    Seriously... do you really believe carrier still support BIS plans??? You need a serious reality check! Send me links from website of major carriers showing updated BIS pricing and I'll say that carrier still support BIS.

    Workforces are more and more mobile and they need apps. If you can't see that... you have exactly the same mindset that rendered BlackBerry obsolete today.

    Remember, it's always better to have an OS that can do more, than less. You can always use an iPhone just for calls and emails... but with BBOS, you are limited to those!

    Posted via CB10
    DINGSTER1 and web99 like this.
    03-20-16 11:43 AM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    2014 article. "In Jakarta, Steven Chandra sells smartphones. A few years ago, 90% of the phones he would sell in his shop were branded with the BlackBerry name. "Now, its one out of 10. I barely sell any," Chandra says of BlackBerry handsets. According to IDC, as recently as 2011, 43% of the Indonesian market was controlled by the manufacturer."

    2016 article. "Companies and *professionals in*Indonesia*are also still embracing the BlackBerry for its secure ecosystem, making the Southeast Asian nation*BBMs top market,*followed by Nigeria and South Africa."

    The reality is that BlackBerry was very popular in these countries but later than in the USA , Canada and the UK. Another difference was that the majority of the BBOS phones were purchased by consumers.

    So there plenty of BBOS units still being used as hand me down phones in these countries.

    If there is a market for a new improved BBOS 9900 it would have been in Indonesia, Nigeria and South Africa.

    BBM has gone cross platform and just like in all markets physical keyboards are not in demand.

    All things considered, my opinion is that a small 9900 type device might find a market just for the format of the device rather than the OS. Neither the Q10 or 5 sold well but a very nice and reasonably priced Android PKB phone might sell fairly well.

    Hopefully BlackBerry does not give up making phones. I still think they can succeed with the PRIV, an all touch model and the Vienna. Maybe one day we see a 9900 running Android as well.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-16 11:49 AM
  23. Ronindan's Avatar
    Here are some data in regards to Blackberry's market share in Indonesia. According to it in December 2015 BB has 5.49% of the market share. Unfortunately the report does not break down the number of BB10 and BBOS users.

    ? Mobile OS: market share in Indonesia 2012-2015 | Statistic
    03-20-16 11:56 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Seriously... do you really believe carrier still support BIS plans??? You need a serious reality check! Send me links from website of major carriers showing updated BIS pricing and I'll say that carrier still support BIS.

    Workforces are more and more mobile and they need apps. If you can't see that... you have exactly the same mindset that rendered BlackBerry obsolete today.

    Remember, it's always better to have an OS that can do more, than less. You can always use an iPhone just for calls and emails... but with BBOS, you are limited to those!

    Posted via CB10
    What is supporting BIS? Canadian carriers no longer sell BBOS phones but you can still operate these older models. It is my understanding that a BBOS phone needs BIS to operate.

    There are thousands (not millions) of old Curves and 9900's still in use (mainly in Ontario).

    I am pretty sure that you can bring an old 9900 to a Canadian carrier and get a Sim card etc.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-16 12:05 PM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    One of many explanations for that decline might simply be that BB hasn't made anything they LIKE in the 5 years since the newest legacy devices?
    03-20-16 12:10 PM
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