07-19-16 08:50 PM
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  1. bobshine's Avatar
    Who has spoken with these folks? BB? That should've been job one (Ford again? Lol) for Chen. Maybe it was? Anyone here ever hear?

    BB will not survive on 2M/yr of ANYthing. They're obviously suffering gross margin losses at 3M/yr of BB10 devices. Does anyone realistically expect 10M Privs this year? Or even 5M?

    2M/yr added to their other products might just be enough to get over whatever threshold they're struggling for. ??

    Why is it "either/or"? Who's saying BB should've stopped production of everything else and ONLY sell BBOS? Why couldn't they have sold BB10 AND BBOS? At least until BB10 matured enough to truly bury bbos in the course of a NATURAL death. ??

    BB consciously euthanized bbos, stranding multiple times those 11M we're still talking about. BB10 just wasn't near mature enough to possibly displace bbos until 10.3.1. Fall of 14. Basically three years after the last bbos device!!

    As they've found, stranding current userbase is a poor path to expansion.
    Listen: I work for a Canadian bank. We had 5000 company issued BBOS devices when I started here 5 years ago. 3 years ago we test piloted iOS, Android and BB10.

    Why?

    The multiple apps on BBOS hasn't been upgraded for years including our most crucial CRM app. The reason? Limitations of BBOS.

    So we went iOS. I am speaking for 5000 users... even if they preferred BBOS, they were forced to change to iOS.

    Now how many of those 11M are corporate and government users? I am willing to bet that most of them are. And IT takes forever to change devices but most of them will.

    And lack of app support is a huge issue with BBOS cause in 2016, empkoyees are more mobile than ever.

    BlackBerry can't just sit there and see their numbers go down from 90M to 0 and do nothing!

    They had 3 choices:

    1)stop making devices
    2)Continue making BBOS and guaranteed no app support and lost of market share
    3)Make a new OS

    They went with the only choice they had to survive. They failed. End of story.



    Posted via CB10
    03-17-16 08:14 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I am willing to bet that most of the BBOS units that are in play are in places like Indonesia, Nigeria, India and the Caribbean. Think of Cuba and cars. They have a cheap plan and most likely a family hand me down.

    On Canada and the UK, most BBOS units are used by individuals as a cell phone or texting device. This group does not see the need for a modern smartphone.

    Yes there are still BBOS power users out there but very few. If BlackBerry wanted to retain their low end users it would have to be with a disposable phone running BIS.

    I suppose that BlackBerry could update the 9900 and sell perhaps 2 million over five years but it does not fit into their business strategy of providing fully capable devices with apps to Enterprise prosumer users.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 03-17-16 at 10:15 AM.
    03-17-16 09:39 AM
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Listen: I work for a Canadian bank. We had 5000 company issued BBOS devices when I started here 5 years ago. 3 years ago we test piloted iOS, Android and BB10.

    Why?

    The multiple apps on BBOS hasn't been upgraded for years including our most crucial CRM app. The reason? Limitations of BBOS.

    So we went iOS. I am speaking for 5000 users... even if they preferred BBOS, they were forced to change to iOS.

    Now how many of those 11M are corporate and government users? I am willing to bet that most of them are. And IT takes forever to change devices but most of them will.

    And lack of app support is a huge issue with BBOS cause in 2016, empkoyees are more mobile than ever.

    BlackBerry can't just sit there and see their numbers go down from 90M to 0 and do nothing!

    They had 3 choices:

    1)stop making devices
    2)Continue making BBOS and guaranteed no app support and lost of market share
    3)Make a new OS

    They went with the only choice they had to survive. They failed. End of story.



    Posted via CB10
    Choice 4...buy an Android manufacturer like Motorola for the consumer market and continue to make BBOS for Enterprise until they could secure Android.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 03-17-16 at 10:09 AM.
    03-17-16 09:43 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I am willing to bet that most of the BBOS units that are in play are in places like Indonesia, Nigeria, India and the Caribbean. Think of Cuba and cars. They have a cheap plan and most likely a family hand me down.

    On Canada and the UK, most BBOS units are used by individuals as a cell phone or texting device. This group does not see the need for a modern smartphone.

    Yes there are still BBOS power users out there but very few. If BlackBerry wanted to retain their low end users it would have to be with a disposable phone running BIS.

    I suppose that BlackBerry could update the 9900 and sell perhaps 2 million over five years but it does not fit into their business strategy of providing fully capable devices with apps to Enterprise prosumer users.

    Posted via CB10
    That doesn't make them Luddites, my wife for example prefers to do her computing on a big laptop screen not on a tiny phone. And all phones are tiny next to a proper laptop or desktop computer.

    The mobile phone is just for communications.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    03-17-16 10:58 AM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    Choice 4...buy an Android manufacturer like Motorola for the consumer market and continue to make BBOS for Enterprise until they could secure Android.

    Posted via CB10
    Basically your choice 4 is going android. And you're right, it's a choice they could had done when BBOS was losing marking share. Easy to say now, but looking back, that would had been the best choice

    Posted via CB10
    03-17-16 11:16 AM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    That doesn't make them Luddites, my wife for example prefers to do her computing on a big laptop screen not on a tiny phone. And all phones are tiny next to a proper laptop or desktop computer.

    The mobile phone is just for communications.
    Agreed not Luddites - Just folks who know the phone like the back of their hand and have no desire to learn or adapt to a new type of device.

    BBOS supporters here on CB are more likely to be experts like yourself. They know every OS shortcut and trick in the book. Your average BBOS user out there now just uses there device like a really good feature phone.

    I know that a lot of people here like" advanced features" - phones that can be customized to do what ever they managed to do with their 9900. I on the other hand think that BlackBerry should make their Android devices as easy to use as possible. Think of a iPhone with a physical keyboard. Have a backlit trackpad that is a home key and a finger scanner. Have the great Blackberry font and sense of design. Have a removable battery and a great camera. Have a phone that is quality built.
    03-17-16 12:15 PM
  7. Jerry A's Avatar
    Most if not all of the current BBOS owners will not be upgrading to a BlackBerry 10 model or they would have done so. Secondly, BlackBerry loses money on BB10 devices on gross margin and the OS costs.

    Your only PKB hope is the Vienna that may or may not happen.

    Posted via CB10
    The flaw with this logic is that all BBOS will upgrade to another device. That's not going to be the case. There are a number of use-cases against this:

    Businesses (mostly small to mid-size) hanging on the BBOS devices and using them as feature phones until they break. For the ones using O365 or Google Apps they most likely aren't even paying BIS or BES fees. Replacements to this pool of users will be more feature phones.

    Enterprises who've had a migration away from BBOS long in the works. Changes of this scope don't happen overnite. See the recent US Navy news.

    Users who picked up a phone 2-4 years ago are ready for a replacement and are extremely price sensitive. BBOS was dirt cheap in emerging markets in the early 10s. Now there are many cheaper and more powerful and compatible (in terms of ecosystem) options. We've already seen this one taking place.

    TL;DR - Just because some has a BBOS device doesn't mean they're holding off for another.
    03-18-16 07:38 AM
  8. Jerry A's Avatar
    And all those are things that the current 11M BBOS users couldn't care less about.

    However, they do care that they have nothing new to upgrade to.
    You don't know that. You only hope that's the case. For all we know 5M of those users are waiting for their contracts to expire, their cheap companies to upgrade them, or to save up enough money for a new phone (in many markets the phone costs more than they make in a year).
    TgeekB likes this.
    03-18-16 07:43 AM
  9. Jerry A's Avatar
    Choice 4...buy an Android manufacturer like Motorola for the consumer market and continue to make BBOS for Enterprise until they could secure Android.

    Posted via CB10
    You're working on the false assumption that Android or iOS may not be secure enough for many functions.

    There are many, many companies, large and small who require the bare minimum of security features - remote locking/wipe, password policy enforcement, device encryption. The data or email they touch isn't sensitive enough to warrant more.

    The rest of their needs are apps and services that keep their business going.
    03-18-16 07:55 AM
  10. 0suneel0's Avatar
    No matter how many new featured devices will be introduced by Android and ios Blackberry will remain in market for the years just because of their Brand Lovers
    03-18-16 12:51 PM
  11. FrankUnderwood's Avatar
    Sooner or later Stamper and I will run out of the BBOS phones. What will we use as burners?

    Posted via CB10 on the President Underwood version of the BlackBerry Classic
    Bbnivende likes this.
    03-18-16 03:54 PM
  12. terminatorx's Avatar
    Listen: I work for a Canadian bank. We had 5000 company issued BBOS devices when I started here 5 years ago. 3 years ago we test piloted iOS, Android and BB10.

    Why?

    The multiple apps on BBOS hasn't been upgraded for years including our most crucial CRM app. The reason? Limitations of BBOS.

    So we went iOS. I am speaking for 5000 users... even if they preferred BBOS, they were forced to change to iOS.

    Now how many of those 11M are corporate and government users? I am willing to bet that most of them are. And IT takes forever to change devices but most of them will.

    And lack of app support is a huge issue with BBOS cause in 2016, empkoyees are more mobile than ever.

    BlackBerry can't just sit there and see their numbers go down from 90M to 0 and do nothing!

    They had 3 choices:

    1)stop making devices
    2)Continue making BBOS and guaranteed no app support and lost of market share
    3)Make a new OS

    They went with the only choice they had to survive. They failed. End of story.
    What does this use case scenario even have to do with anything? You're jumping from arguement to arguement whenever you are losing, like trying to come out with any possible spin. Just because you work at a Canadian bank that used to use bbos devices and now uses ios, doesnt make you a subject matter expert on anything. Are you a banker or a technology analyst? Plus, your bank isnt one of the good ones anyway as they dont even make any bb10 apps. CIBC does, so you obviously dont work there. So, dont judge all situations using your bank office window as the template, bobshine.

    Your grandiose statement about BBOS not being supported by any carrier severely diminishes your credibility. All I can say at this point is, if BlackBerry had or currently has people on the inside with your combative mindset, then its no wonder why they are failing.
    03-18-16 10:29 PM
  13. tangozulu's Avatar
    Short Answer is no. But pulled out my old 9810 to use as a ipod sim free and couldn't help seeing how superior an mp3-4 player it is to an old iphone 4s.
    Good screen of similar size, swapable battery, no itunes to deal with....just swap SD cards
    Streams Tune In easily where iPhone struggles
    Battery last all day
    What an awesome little device

    Posted via CB10
    03-18-16 10:53 PM
  14. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    How are those current 11M BBOS users using BBOS if their carriers aren't currently supporting BIS?
    Some have stopped and more will.
    03-18-16 10:56 PM
  15. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    What does this use case scenario even have to do with anything? You're jumping from arguement to arguement whenever you are losing, like trying to come out with any possible spin. Just because you work at a Canadian bank that used to use bbos devices and now uses ios, doesnt make you a subject matter expert on anything. Are you a banker or a technology analyst? Plus, your bank isnt one of the good ones anyway as they dont even make any bb10 apps. CIBC does, so you obviously dont work there. So, dont judge all situations using your bank office window as the template, bobshine.

    Your grandiose statement about BBOS not being supported by any carrier severely diminishes your credibility. All I can say at this point is, if BlackBerry had or currently has people on the inside with your combative mindset, then its no wonder why they are failing.
    So why did BB lose about 90% plus of its market share.
    TgeekB likes this.
    03-18-16 10:59 PM
  16. terminatorx's Avatar
    So why did BB lose about 90% plus of its market share.
    I am not claiming to know all the answers, based on what my company does. And that wasnt really the topic of this thread anyway.

    In my view, the massive amount of negative media coverage and bad information about Blackberry over the last few years must also have made an impact on this. The expert critics will say that it was all in order and fully deserved, but I disagree. There was a lot of unfair reporting, especially by Canadian outlets strangely enough.

    The focus now should be on what the company can do to rescue these remaining legacy users from moving to a completely different platforn. Hence the suggestion about an updated Bold 9900. Not to replace or displace anything, just to complement the existing lineup of devices.
    03-18-16 11:16 PM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I was in Telus today. Only the PRIV was included in the display of active phones. Very unlikely that there is a market for a BBOS device at a price that would be acceptable to carriers, consumers and BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 01:20 AM
  18. Jerry A's Avatar
    The focus now should be on what the company can do to rescue these remaining legacy users from moving to a completely different platforn. Hence the suggestion about an updated Bold 9900. Not to replace or displace anything, just to complement the existing lineup of devices.
    Why?

    I'm asking seriously.

    Is 11M enough of a market to continue serving? Can you guarantee that all 11M will in fact pick up the new device? Can you guarantee that all 11M will upgrade to another "updated Bold" in 18-24 month?
    03-19-16 01:31 AM
  19. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Who is to say they still don't manufacture legacy devices? I work in Indonesia where half the phones you see are bbos and I could go out today and get a brand new one at any cell phone kiosk. BlackBerry is not the emphasize phone and if you can afford it then samsung is what people reach for but when you make $100/month and need a smart phone BBOS makes sense as long as it is sold for the right price.
    03-19-16 01:46 AM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    Some have stopped and more will.
    True, but carriers are still providing BIS for those current bbos users, aren't they? Do you KNOW exactly when those carriers are planning to discontinue BIS?
    03-19-16 03:24 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    So why did BB lose about 90% plus of its market share.

    BB clearly wasn't competitive against iOS or Droid. Their market share had been sliding under BBOS. Stupidly announcing BBOS obsolescence virtually a couple months after 9900's introduction certainly didn't help. Who's going to purchase self proclaimed obsolete handsets? Who's going to develop apps for a self proclaimed obsolete platform? Damage done by that single event was significant, if not criminal, IMO.

    Then, 2013, that marketshare slide turned into meteoric free fall AFTER BB10 intro'd.
    Clearly, BB10 was, and still is, even less competitive against iOS & Droid or even BBOS, IMO.

    As a BBOS user, then and now, I can report feeling abandoned after that WAY premature fall of 2011 obsolescence announcement. I can further report feeling betrayed by the non-toolbelt Q. Clearly, BB had forgotten how their then current userbase, used their phones. Far from ALL of us had ANY interest in iOS!!

    Where was BBOS's market bottom? With no legitimate 9900 successor, we'll never know. What we do "know" is that about 12M are STILL using bbos despite almost 5yrs since the last bbos devices. Provided with legitimate upgrade replacements, might that bottom have been multiples of those 12M?? ??? Conjecture is the best we can do, now.

    I can also report feeling BBOS was being artificially euthanized in effort to artificially extort those users into an immature BB10. Motives aside, the net effect of killing off bbos was to ultimately "extort" too many of those users to iOS/Droid.

    Relatively tiny BB never stood a chance once Apple & Google stepped in. One possible hope for some minuscule level of survival was to preserve their tiny niche of "BlackBerry Experience". They've cowardly surrendered even that desperate option.

    Strictly an academic exercise, now, since BBRY's "brain drain" assures that BBOS simply can't be resurrected. All the kings horses.... Ya kno.
    03-19-16 04:55 AM
  22. idssteve's Avatar
    Why?

    I'm asking seriously.

    Is 11M enough of a market to continue serving? Can you guarantee that all 11M will in fact pick up the new device? Can you guarantee that all 11M will upgrade to another "updated Bold" in 18-24 month?
    Can you guarantee 11M Priv sales?

    Resurrecting bbos can't and won't happen but if BB needs 10M/yr total sales, the thinking would be to service legacy with SOMEthing to provide some few M, to combine with BB10 & droid. Just to maintain "presence", if nothing else.

    If BB needs 10M/yr from each individual model... ??? ... Good luck.
    03-19-16 05:19 AM
  23. darkhawk's Avatar
    YES oh I look at it a different way tho
    I want the size and feel of a 9900/9700
    The bold was a great size phone!

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 06:52 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Can you guarantee 11M Priv sales?

    Resurrecting bbos can't and won't happen but if BB needs 10M/yr total sales, the thinking would be to service legacy with SOMEthing to provide some few M, to combine with BB10 & droid. Just to maintain "presence", if nothing else.

    If BB needs 10M/yr from each individual model... ??? ... Good luck.
    I think the figure has been downgraded to 5 million BlackBerry Android devices due to cheaper operating costs.

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 07:01 AM
  25. Jerry A's Avatar
    Can you guarantee 11M Priv sales?
    Don't need to. It's 5M or no hardware division.

    Resurrecting bbos can't and won't happen but if BB needs 10M/yr total sales, the thinking would be to service legacy with SOMEthing to provide some few M, to combine with BB10 & droid. Just to maintain "presence", if nothing else.

    If BB needs 10M/yr from each individual model... ??? ... Good luck.
    Your logic is still flawed. It's not like phone manufacturers (the non-mobile kind) still make rotary phones to maintain " presence".
    03-19-16 07:40 AM
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