07-19-16 08:50 PM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I'm all in favour of an 'OS 10 lite' on lower spec/cheaper hardware.

    Microsoft seem to be able to do it, because they are producing feature phones with 'ancient' hardware all the time.
    I imagine the only way to make a BB10 lite version, would be to pull the runtime out of the OS..... (see Z3 forums for an idea of how BB10 works on lower end hardware)

    But as that would totally kill app access to Android Apps, and a big chunk of the ported apps in BBW, I doubt it would sell. BB10 is an example of why some here kinda doubt BlackBerry's ability to become a software company.

    Whereas MS has somehow managed to optimize Windows so it will run on minimum hardware. I have a tablet with 1GB of Ram and 16GB of storage... and it runs pretty smooth. But their app market seems to be dying, not growing. Was one reason I didn't go with a Windows Phone (that and Verizon not carrying any newer Windows phones).
    03-10-16 07:37 AM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    As an entrepreneur, you surely understand that reissuing legacy devices would require huge investment cost (parts are not available anymore).

    Considering the fact that margins will be low, especially in emerging markets, and the headwind that carriers are cutting support for BIS plans, you'll agree with me that it's a suicide plan right? Cause remember, legacy device only works with BIS Data plans.

    But let say your right and that those 11M users are very very loyal and will buy a re-issue of a legacy device, do the math... how much money will BlackBerry make? Let's consider a 20% margin... and that's generous!

    Since you do startups for a living, if it was your business would you produce a high developing cost device with limited distribution channel and no growth prospects?



    Posted via CB10
    Can't say I would, or wouldn't, without more data than I've been able to find. We keep assuming that Chen & board have the data but results keep speaking for themselves.

    I'm assuming those 11M existing BBOS users are already on BIS? Last I heard, BIS revenues provided decent margin?

    Even at 20%, Apple sized numbers have never been within BB's grasp. Niche is all they have, IMO.

    My startups (the first was really a turn around) are all niche services. Very tiny, compared with even BB. Repeat business is an irreplaceable part of our growth. I have no experience in the phone market. Nor do I want any. BUT, from way outside looking in, I can not visualize myself sitting on my hands while watching 50% of my EXISTING customers migrate to competitors THIS year. Inaction seems like sure suicide also?

    But, like you've indicated and I've said before, re assembling the talent and component sources needed to resurrect legacy is likely prohibitive, at this late date.
    03-10-16 08:31 AM
  3. keith2k1's Avatar
    I think that's a good question...but too bad you posted it here. All the jackasses have to post and you can never gauge responses w/o having to go through all the crap first.

    IMO I think Blackberry's downfall came from having the co-ceo set up. Now should they bring back legacy devices? I think it depends on the country. Everyone here (U.S.) is either Android or iOS for the most part and I feel in other countries it could work. I have some Canadian buddies who STILL use 8830s and I'm not mad at them at all.
    03-10-16 09:23 AM
  4. martinjdub's Avatar
    When BlackBerry released BB10, that was the migration path from BBOS
    When BlackBerry released BES10/12, that was the migration path from BBOS, BES5 and competitive MDM
    When BlackBerry released the Priv, that is the migration path from BB10

    - The trick is to have a replacement product ready before the customers even knows about it. BlackBerry did that but the vast majority of users didn't follow suit.
    03-10-16 09:57 AM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I have a buddy running an old Curve. Why? Just for texting his family. The data plan maybe $20. He will use it until it breaks and then get the cheapest alternative he can find. He is not looking for a new Curve , just wants to keep on using this phone as long as he can.
    03-10-16 10:00 AM
  6. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Microsoft continue to make and sell feature phones ... are you saying there is no possible way of manufacturing cheap BBOS-style handsets and there is no market for it and no possible way to generate any profit out of it?

    Colour me dubious.
    Windows phones are not much if any better off than Blackberry, from what I have read lately.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    03-10-16 10:25 AM
  7. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    to whoever said "parts are not available for Legacy devices anymore" something you have to consider is that Private Electronics repair shops are kept in buisness by repairing/fixing these devices and make a living doing it. I just had the ear speaker replaced on my 9900 when it blew 3 weeks ago. Don't ask if these are new or used parts but repair is never a problem. Have you seen the parts available for these devices just off amazon alone?

    Early on in this thread someone said "people in third world countries will just have to dish out $200 for a cheaper device and deal with it." (or to that effect)and $200 can probably build a house in places like Venezuela (and all they need are 4 walls, no insultation and no furnaces hooked up to natural gas) and I know places like Africa and South America still rely on lots of legacy devices. People there do not have $200 to spend on a new Android device and never will. I dont think this is taking anything away from Blackberry, it is not hurting Blackberry, it is their only form of communiication in most cases.

    I love my iphone but I actually got bored with it. I have a big Twitter account and need speed/accuracy when typing, I missed the keyboard on my 9780 so I got a used mint unlocked 9900 and plan to use it at least until Whatsapp is finished as they gave a death date of "later this year."

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ralph Morgotch; 03-10-16 at 10:59 AM.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    03-10-16 10:42 AM
  8. gpb123's Avatar
    While I agree that we don't want to create new devices for BB7, there is a small but significant part of the market that wants and searches for simple phones without all the smartphone paraphernalia. These people want to make calls, send texts and maybe have an organizer in their phone. I think Blackberry has an amazing form-factor for these people. A phone on the old BB Curve chassis could be perfect for the these customers. It would be especially great if they could build it for under a $100 dollars.
    03-10-16 11:31 AM
  9. bobshine's Avatar
    Can't say I would, or wouldn't, without more data than I've been able to find. We keep assuming that Chen & board have the data but results keep speaking for themselves.

    I'm assuming those 11M existing BBOS users are already on BIS? Last I heard, BIS revenues provided decent margin?

    Even at 20%, Apple sized numbers have never been within BB's grasp. Niche is all they have, IMO.

    My startups (the first was really a turn around) are all niche services. Very tiny, compared with even BB. Repeat business is an irreplaceable part of our growth. I have no experience in the phone market. Nor do I want any. BUT, from way outside looking in, I can not visualize myself sitting on my hands while watching 50% of my EXISTING customers migrate to competitors THIS year. Inaction seems like sure suicide also?

    But, like you've indicated and I've said before, re assembling the talent and component sources needed to resurrect legacy is likely prohibitive, at this late date.
    But you need to figure out why your customers are migrating to other devices!

    BIS used to be but isn't a competitive advantage anymore. Those that migrate to other platform wants app... that's the reason that comes back again and again. Something that BBOS is unable to provide (it's technologically impossible).

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-16 11:37 AM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    While I agree that we don't want to create new devices for BB7, there is a small but significant part of the market that wants and searches for simple phones without all the smartphone paraphernalia. These people want to make calls, send texts and maybe have an organizer in their phone. I think Blackberry has an amazing form-factor for these people. A phone on the old BB Curve chassis could be perfect for the these customers. It would be especially great if they could build it for under a $100 dollars.
    The segment of the market that wants a phone that does few things for cheap over a phone that does more things for the same price is most probably dwindling by the day.

    Plus, knowing BlackBerry's insistence on making hardware profitable through high prices, they will never release a phone for that cheap.

    Checking my carrier's (Telus) website, there's two rock bottom flip phones ($250 or $350 Canadian off contract), both of which can call, text, use the Internet, whatever, the same baseline phone functions for this segment. The more expensive one has a quad-core CPU, removable battery and LTE, for whatever reason. Both of them aren't shackled to BIS, either, so they have more of a guarantee of working in the future. You do lose BBM, yes, but it would probably be added complexity for this segment, anyway.

    On the next rung of the ladder, for $0 down on a contract, I could get a Leap, iPhone 5S or LG G4 (among others), all of which do much more than either the flip phones or a BBOS device. They do give up simplicity, yes, but are more appealing to most consumers than a decrepit flip phone or an even more antiquated Curve.

    If this simplicity at all costs crowd had a higher budget than $100, and if they were truly kingmakers in the mobile device market, then BBOS wouldn't be the museum piece it is today; BBOS's 1990s sensibilities and artificially inflated price would be right up their alley. Instead, the vast majority of consumers can be satisfied with a cheaper Android model or last year's iPhone; get a cheap device that isn't the next step after a StarTAC.
    oldtimeBBaddict likes this.
    03-10-16 12:18 PM
  11. Ziffster's Avatar
    They can put Android on it for all we care. The main thing is that they release moderate-sized, reasonably-priced phones that can sell it numbers profitable enough to make it worthwhile - something they appear to be moving far from with the ridiculous Privvy and the clunky oversized Classic.
    I completely agree with the point being made. Give me a updated Q10 running Android and I would be a happy camper. Even the classic is getting to large for my taste while the screen on the 9900 honestly was a little too small for touch screen apps.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    03-10-16 12:47 PM
  12. Jerry A's Avatar
    While I agree that we don't want to create new devices for BB7, there is a small but significant part of the market that wants and searches for simple phones without all the smartphone paraphernalia. These people want to make calls, send texts and maybe have an organizer in their phone. I think Blackberry has an amazing form-factor for these people. A phone on the old BB Curve chassis could be perfect for the these customers. It would be especially great if they could build it for under a $100 dollars.
    Maybe so. I agree that market exists. But i don't think it's a business BlackBerry is interested in.

    For a company their size it may still be too small a market.
    03-10-16 02:02 PM
  13. southlander's Avatar
    Not to be rude. Just imagine if BB re-release the Storm and Storm 2
    To remind everyone where things really went off the rails perhaps?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Ronindan, JeepBB and Blacklatino like this.
    03-10-16 02:05 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    While I agree that we don't want to create new devices for BB7, there is a small but significant part of the market that wants and searches for simple phones without all the smartphone paraphernalia. These people want to make calls, send texts and maybe have an organizer in their phone. I think Blackberry has an amazing form-factor for these people. A phone on the old BB Curve chassis could be perfect for the these customers. It would be especially great if they could build it for under a $100 dollars.
    While I agree with you, how could they possibly do this? They would lose money on every device.
    03-10-16 02:20 PM
  15. simply_reyner's Avatar
    nope.. i dont think they should bring back their legacy devices. its not equipped with nowadays standard in os but BB10 has to prosper BB 10 is oozing with potential. they should look for some very unique Software functionality to implement, improve their app or the android runtime for their bb10 and make an awesome hardware. like; great front and back camera some solid built finger print scanner( not a fan of this but it seems like this is where the technology heading) and bb10 can go back to where it was before. i know i miss the legacy devices too its just that they are not suitable for nowadays software functionalities.
    03-10-16 03:10 PM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Sorry unless a phone can access the full Google Play Services app store , it has no chance in North America and Europe ...maybe everywhere. An hybrid Android BB10 would have the same fate as the Amazon Fire.
    03-10-16 04:23 PM
  17. kelom's Avatar
    No, just keep BlackBerry OS up and running.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-16 04:29 PM
  18. Frehley's Avatar
    I will risk ridicule again, but I would love to have the 99xx form factor with Classic internals. I'm sure that there are other users that prefer a communication device over a multimedia device. And utilizing BIS.
    idssteve likes this.
    03-10-16 04:30 PM
  19. TheSkiBaron's Avatar
    When you can go out at buy a BB10 device at a good price why go back to old technology? A Q10 or a Z30 can be had for very cheap these days, soon the classic should be cheaper to. Not to mention the BB Bold 9900 is still for sale. You can buy used blackberries for peanuts and BB7 devices can often be obtained for free or next to nothing. Why would I buy a shell of a phone for $100 when i can buy a used fully functioning used BB for $100?
    03-10-16 04:30 PM
  20. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    I completely agree with the point being made. Give me a updated Q10 running Android and I would be a happy camper. Even the classic is getting to large for my taste while the screen on the 9900 honestly was a little too small for touch screen apps.
    Many of us do not want Android. The screen is small because the 9900 is all about the Keyboard, and that takes up half of the space on the device. I am not elderly, I do not need a massive screen, I want a physical keyboard that is unparalleled by any other device on the planet. People with the 9900 barely use the touchscreen, that is what the trackpad is for and the reason we did not switch to the Q10. The tiny touchscreen is more of a novelty on a screen this size, likely only built for the purpose of bragging rights when Blackberry was "competing" with the iphone and had to have SOMETHING to talk about. I have no issues with browser slowdowns, only whatsapp given a death sentence, but this applies to BB10 as well

    the 9900 is still supposedly one of the most sought after Blackberry devices, there is a reason people still buy them, I am happy with mine

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Frehley and idssteve like this.
    03-10-16 04:38 PM
  21. anon(153966)'s Avatar
    To me, they'd be wasting money. The market has clearly spoken. What would be interesting is if the Priv, or should I say, future Android BlackBerry devices, make a difference to the market, and to BlackBerry's bottom line...
    03-10-16 04:56 PM
  22. Frehley's Avatar
    Many of us do not want Android. The screen is small because the 9900 is all about the Keyboard, and that takes up half of the space on the device. I am not elderly, I do not need a massive screen, I want a physical keyboard that is unparalleled by any other device on the planet. People with the 9900 barely use the touchscreen, that is what the trackpad is for and the reason we did not switch to the Q10. The tiny touchscreen is more of a novelty on a screen this size, likely only built for the purpose of bragging rights when Blackberry was "competing" with the iphone and had to have SOMETHING to talk about. I have no issues with browser slowdowns, only whatsapp given a death sentence, but this applies to BB10 as well

    the 9900 is still supposedly one of the most sought after Blackberry devices, there is a reason people still buy them, I am happy with mine

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    +1
    03-10-16 05:11 PM
  23. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    I will risk ridicule again, but I would love to have the 99xx form factor with Classic internals. I'm sure that there are other users that prefer a communication device over a multimedia device. And utilizing BIS.
    Good point also. People forget these are PHONES first, toys second. Emailing and quick texting is quicker and way more accurate on Legacy devices than any other because these are Blackberry in their more original, PURE form, and built for this original purpose.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Frehley and idssteve like this.
    03-10-16 05:20 PM
  24. Gus's Avatar
    No, please don't bring back legacy devices. BlackBerry 10 is a lot better.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-16 06:37 PM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    No, please don't bring back legacy devices. BlackBerry 10 is a lot better.

    Posted via CB10
    BBOS made buckets of money in its day but that's ancient history.
    BB10 lost billions and is sinking below the waves.

    Are you or I or both of us being negative?
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-10-16 06:59 PM
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