07-19-16 08:50 PM
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  1. web99's Avatar
    Microsoft continue to make and sell feature phones ... are you saying there is no possible way of manufacturing cheap BBOS-style handsets and there is no market for it and no possible way to generate any profit out of it?

    Colour me dubious.
    If BlackBerry were to make legacy BBOS devices, they may get some sales from those willing to buy them, but that market is so small right now and would not cover their manufacturing cost. It would mean BlackBerry digging themselves in a deeper hole by losing more money.
    03-09-16 05:18 PM
  2. ohaiguise's Avatar
    If BlackBerry were to make legacy BBOS devices, they may get some sales from those willing to buy them, but that market is so small right now and would not cover their manufacturing cost. It would mean BlackBerry digging themselves in a deeper hole by losing more money.
    I'm all in favour of an 'OS 10 lite' on lower spec/cheaper hardware.

    Microsoft seem to be able to do it, because they are producing feature phones with 'ancient' hardware all the time.
    03-09-16 05:33 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Um no there was nothing disruptive about the iPhone other then Steve Jobs was good at convincing sheeps that it was so great.. when in fact it just plain sucked (and still does).
    But I do give Steve Jobs props for personality and being able to make people believe when pretty much everyone had written Apple off for dead. BlackBerry needed the same kind of marketing.

    And the fact that the rest of the sheep agree with you doesn't actually make it fact.. it just makes you well, sheep.
    How can we have an intelligent conversation if you're going to talk like that? You sound like Donald Trump.
    reeneebob likes this.
    03-09-16 05:53 PM
  4. ravencore's Avatar
    How can we have an intelligent conversation if you're going to talk like that? You sound like Donald Trump.
    Sorry Got carried away.
    03-09-16 05:56 PM
  5. TgeekB's Avatar
    Sorry Got carried away.
    Haha! At least you admit it. I admire that.
    03-09-16 05:57 PM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    If BlackBerry were to make legacy BBOS devices, they may get some sales from those willing to buy them, but that market is so small right now and would not cover their manufacturing cost. It would mean BlackBerry digging themselves in a deeper hole by losing more money.
    We keep hearing this but I, for one, have yet to see hard numbers and real research. Is there any? Its been stated earlier in this thread that there are still about 12M BBOS users and that 11M of those might be moving to SOME other platform by year end. I find it bewildering that BB wouldn't mount some sort of effort to retain those existing customers. IF I were on the board, I'd be seeking some solid, research based, answers. Maybe this research has already indicated hopelessness. ?? Naturally those results would, and should, remain proprietary. Idk.

    It's also been stated earlier in this thread that much of existing legacy is in developing nations. Is it possible that a significant portion of those developing nation users are busy working on developing their nations? Is it possible that a genuine work ethos motivates these nation developers to value other mobile attributes than Facebook and movie watching?? Attributes that BBOS still excels at better than BB10, iOS, etc??
    Attributes they might even consider paying a premium for?? These users paid BB prices for their legacy stuff 5+ years ago. Why not now? With availability of cheaper, media oriented, handsets why are they still clinging to their legacy BB? Maybe for the same reasons I, and others, still do?

    Just because many in these forums hate legacy stuff doesn't necessarily mean that users in developing nations don't love them.

    Does anyone know what the production numbers, costs & margins were on Chen's 2014 9900 reissue? R&D might be minimal for a repeat but browser security would need to be modernized. That in itself might be a deal killer.

    Idk. As an entrepreneur responsible for 4 wildly successful startups, it drives me crazy to think of loosing those 11M EXISTING customers without a fight. Even tho they're not my customers. Ugh.
    Mr4aces and ravencore like this.
    03-09-16 06:18 PM
  7. ravencore's Avatar
    Haha! At least you admit it. I admire that.
    Thanks
    I officially apologize to you, DrBoomBotz, Jerry A & JeepBB and anyone else that I might have personally offended.
    I just need to keep things in perspective .. and people have a right to like what they like.
    Mr4aces, TgeekB and anon(8063781) like this.
    03-09-16 06:27 PM
  8. TgeekB's Avatar
    Thanks
    I officially apologize to you, DrBoomBotz, Jerry A & JeepBB and anyone else that I might have personally offended.
    I just need to keep things in perspective .. and people have a right to like what they like.
    That's OK, and I agree. We all like different things.

    BTW, my iPhone 6 is up for sale on eBay right now. While I like how it performed, it's just a bit......boring to me. I need some ability to change things up once in a while. So I'm back to Android. I love choice and it's one of the reasons I'm bummed that BB10 didn't make it. But that's the way it goes sometimes.
    03-09-16 06:31 PM
  9. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Thanks
    I officially apologize to you, DrBoomBotz, Jerry A & JeepBB and anyone else that I might have personally offended.
    I just need to keep things in perspective .. and people have a right to like what they like.
    You have nothing to apologize for. You weren't out of line.

    Stand tall!
    03-09-16 06:32 PM
  10. ravencore's Avatar
    You have nothing to apologize for. You weren't out of line.

    Stand tall!
    I think my opinions were not necessarily "wrong" but I should have remained more respectful to others. And that's what I was apologizing for.
    03-09-16 06:35 PM
  11. ravencore's Avatar
    You have nothing to apologize for. You weren't out of line.

    Stand tall!
    Oh.. and some of my responses were pulled by moderators so you didn't see the full story .. only what they left.
    03-09-16 06:36 PM
  12. Kelvin Pham's Avatar
    I'm using 3 platforms rite now: BB10, Android & IOS (Classic + Lenovo P1 + Ipad mini 4).

    Actually i only move to BB10 just because BBOS no longer provide push on Active Change email. I prefer the OS7 with more realiable functions and shortcuts. But i'd love BBRY to move on so i support the BB10.

    But keep being fool from BBRY (PB and then BB10) make me really change my mind. If WS really stop working on BB10, I'd keep using Classic till it broke. And I'm done with BBRY.

    For me Android is just phone for entertaiment and I'll not spend 800$+ for Priv! Which is having none outstanding value than other OEM.
    Soapm likes this.
    03-09-16 06:51 PM
  13. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Oh.. and some of my responses were pulled by moderators so you didn't see the full story .. only what they left.
    Takes a big man to own his actions, I respect that.
    anon(8063781) likes this.
    03-09-16 06:53 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    If there's a market for QWERTY phones, someone will cater for that market - whether it's BlackBerry or some other company.
    You mean "IF there is a market for QWERTY phones that's big enough to generate a profit" that someone will cater to it. I agree that's likely, if that market exists. I'm not really sure that it does, though. 100k PKB buyers isn't a big enough market for most manufacturers to bother with, and that's probably the total size of those who feel they must have a PKB.

    And if no one makes PKB devices, eventually even those people will switch to all-touch devices. They might grumble and complain, but eventually the need to get things done will persuade them to switch.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-09-16 08:04 PM
  15. joeldf's Avatar
    BlackBerry cannot produce in scale to drive down production cost, cannot sell in premium price due to tarnished brand, but need all the profit it could get, so no price drop. A difficult situation indeed and the Verizon delay simply makes a bit more difficult even. Seems like BlackBerry is even having trouble porting M to Priv.
    Regarding M, why do you think they are having trouble? They said back at the end of last year that they would "announce" at the end of Q1 when Marshmallow for the Priv would be ready.

    Well, we are only now approaching the time for the announcement. All we can say is that it will be ready some time after that. Until we hear when that is, it could be days after or months after. They can't be late if no date has been provided in the first place.


    Posted via CB10
    03-09-16 08:10 PM
  16. Ziffster's Avatar
    TH's Z10 decision represented full scale abandonment of "BlackBerry Experience" to some of us. A surrender that failed to conquer.
    I was studying marketing at the time and our entire class just scratched out heads with the Z10 hitting the market months before the Q10. It is arguable if the Q10 was a worthy successor or not to the 9900 BUT it was reasonably faithful to the companies heritage.

    The Z10 was nothing but a stepping stone to either a Samsung or a iPhone (it was exactly the product that Apple / Samsung were hoping Blackberry would introduce). It sold loyal keyboard users that 'a touch screen keyboard can be just as good as a keyboard' with the end result that the once loyal tasted the forbidden fruit and was the way to the promised land with huge app ecosystem and mature touch screen devices. Look at the numbers, when the Z10 came to market a full 30% of smart phone users said they preferred keyboard devices... a year later the numbers I saw put that number now at under 10%.

    Sorry to insult those loyal Z10 fans, but the S4 ran rings around it providing a much more enjoyable touch experience. That said, personally I still hate touch screens and wouldn't trade my Q10 even for my daughters brand new S7... nor for even a Priv (sorry Blackberry, I want a device which fits easily in my shirt pocket).
    03-09-16 08:29 PM
  17. gruv4u's Avatar
    He'll to the naw naw, to the naw naw naw!

     Z10 STL 100-3 with vitamin (SR) 10.3.2.2836 (OS version 10.3.2.2876) on AT&T
    03-09-16 08:39 PM
  18. ohaiguise's Avatar
    You mean "IF there is a market for QWERTY phones that's big enough to generate a profit" that someone will cater to it. I agree that's likely, if that market exists. I'm not really sure that it does, though. 100k PKB buyers isn't a big enough market for most manufacturers to bother with, and that's probably the total size of those who feel they must have a PKB.

    And if no one makes PKB devices, eventually even those people will switch to all-touch devices. They might grumble and complain, but eventually the need to get things done will persuade them to switch.
    I agree the market isn't big for expensive QWERTY phones, but the market for budget phones with keyboards is certainly at least big enough for Microsoft to keep making them.
    03-09-16 08:52 PM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    I was studying marketing at the time and our entire class just scratched out heads with the Z10 hitting the market months before the Q10. It is arguable if the Q10 was a worthy successor or not to the 9900 BUT it was reasonably faithful to the companies heritage.

    The Z10 was nothing but a stepping stone to either a Samsung or a iPhone (it was exactly the product that Apple / Samsung were hoping Blackberry would introduce). It sold loyal keyboard users that 'a touch screen keyboard can be just as good as a keyboard' with the end result that the once loyal tasted the forbidden fruit and was the way to the promised land with huge app ecosystem and mature touch screen devices. Look at the numbers, when the Z10 came to market a full 30% of smart phone users said they preferred keyboard devices... a year later the numbers I saw put that number now at under 10%.

    Sorry to insult those loyal Z10 fans, but the S4 ran rings around it providing a much more enjoyable touch experience. That said, personally I still hate touch screens and wouldn't trade my Q10 even for my daughters brand new S7... nor for even a Priv (sorry Blackberry, I want a device which fits easily in my shirt pocket).
    Lol, we'd kept our then new management out of Apple by convincing them real business devices had physical keyboards. Then came the Z10.
    03-09-16 09:16 PM
  20. anon(8163415)'s Avatar
    Someone delete this ridiculous thread. BB7 is old and outdated. Useless platform that had no apps. BB10 replaced it. BB10 is the best mobile OS in the world. Asking BlackBerry to bring back legecy devices and OS would put the company out of business.
    03-09-16 09:50 PM
  21. Thiagu AB's Avatar
    Should BlackBerry bring back legacy devices?-trackpad-close-9900.jpg

    Still i am loving this 9900 Curved Keyboard and TrackPad, So we must need it back...
    Bbnivende and Mr4aces like this.
    03-10-16 01:34 AM
  22. nick903's Avatar
    100% no, it is not a device for 2016. And the 9900 is the worst Bold I have ever use, I wanna leave BB because of this crappy device
    03-10-16 05:17 AM
  23. rthonpm's Avatar
    I had the opportunity to use a 9900 earlier this month in helping a customer with one. Having been on BB10 for so long I had forgotten how laborious navigation and menus were on BBOS. It was a great OS for the 2005 Era, but in 2016 it's a glorified flip phone and it seems that even the diehards using it tacitly agree with that.

    Posted via CB10
    03-10-16 06:04 AM
  24. bobshine's Avatar
    We keep hearing this but I, for one, have yet to see hard numbers and real research. Is there any? Its been stated earlier in this thread that there are still about 12M BBOS users and that 11M of those might be moving to SOME other platform by year end. I find it bewildering that BB wouldn't mount some sort of effort to retain those existing customers. IF I were on the board, I'd be seeking some solid, research based, answers. Maybe this research has already indicated hopelessness. ?? Naturally those results would, and should, remain proprietary. Idk.

    It's also been stated earlier in this thread that much of existing legacy is in developing nations. Is it possible that a significant portion of those developing nation users are busy working on developing their nations? Is it possible that a genuine work ethos motivates these nation developers to value other mobile attributes than Facebook and movie watching?? Attributes that BBOS still excels at better than BB10, iOS, etc??
    Attributes they might even consider paying a premium for?? These users paid BB prices for their legacy stuff 5+ years ago. Why not now? With availability of cheaper, media oriented, handsets why are they still clinging to their legacy BB? Maybe for the same reasons I, and others, still do?

    Just because many in these forums hate legacy stuff doesn't necessarily mean that users in developing nations don't love them.

    Does anyone know what the production numbers, costs & margins were on Chen's 2014 9900 reissue? R&D might be minimal for a repeat but browser security would need to be modernized. That in itself might be a deal killer.

    Idk. As an entrepreneur responsible for 4 wildly successful startups, it drives me crazy to think of loosing those 11M EXISTING customers without a fight. Even tho they're not my customers. Ugh.
    As an entrepreneur, you surely understand that reissuing legacy devices would require huge investment cost (parts are not available anymore).

    Considering the fact that margins will be low, especially in emerging markets, and the headwind that carriers are cutting support for BIS plans, you'll agree with me that it's a suicide plan right? Cause remember, legacy device only works with BIS Data plans.

    But let say your right and that those 11M users are very very loyal and will buy a re-issue of a legacy device, do the math... how much money will BlackBerry make? Let's consider a 20% margin... and that's generous!

    Since you do startups for a living, if it was your business would you produce a high developing cost device with limited distribution channel and no growth prospects?



    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-10-16 06:45 AM
  25. ohaiguise's Avatar
    They can put Android on it for all we care. The main thing is that they release moderate-sized, reasonably-priced phones that can sell it numbers profitable enough to make it worthwhile - something they appear to be moving far from with the ridiculous Privvy and the clunky oversized Classic.
    03-10-16 07:02 AM
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