Should BlackBerry bring back legacy devices?
- The key to conversion in many parts of the world would be for BlackBerry offer a phone where the user can retain his current cheap data plan. This is the main reason why legacy users have not updated their devices. Does not have to be BBOS but it could be.
Posted via CB1003-19-16 09:04 AMLike 0 -
From my perspective, your market logic is wrong. Carriers providing BIS to current customers aren't doing so out of any kindness for BB itself. They're doing so to keep their current customers happy. (what a novel concept!! Lol)
That "presence" might be leveraged to command credibility with carriers thru popular demand from mutual customers.
Again, I'm not advocating resurrecting bbos unless it can prove $$ feasibility. Only that if some affordable way can be found to retain those customers, they'll also retain some relevance with carriers while transforming their current customer base into "sales force multipliers".
Just my "flawed" opinion.Bbnivende likes this.03-19-16 09:44 AMLike 1 - Well, since we're really only creating "virtual" solutions to a "virtual" problem, my logic wasn't intended to be flawless. My virtual logic is still evolving. Is yours?
From my perspective, your market logic is wrong. Carriers providing BIS to current customers aren't doing so out of any kindness for BB itself. They're doing so to keep their current customers happy. (what a novel concept!! Lol)
That "presence" might be leveraged to command credibility with carriers thru popular demand from mutual customers.
Again, I'm not advocating resurrecting bbos unless it can prove $$ feasibility. Only that if some affordable way can be found to retain those customers, they'll also retain some relevance with carriers while transforming their current customer base into "sales force multipliers".
Just my "flawed" opinion.
While everybody blamed the carriers for "not liking BIS" 5 years later it's actually the carriers that are keeping BIS alive despite BB trying to kill it.03-19-16 09:58 AMLike 0 - The trouble is that BlackBerry is not really after the low end consumer market. They want to sell to consumers the type of phone that business and enterprise will purchase. Notwithstanding that the Manchester police purchased 6,000 Leaps, I do not foresee this trend continuing. Ultimately, BlackBerry needs a fleet model all touch Android for business and enterprise.03-19-16 10:30 AMLike 0
- There could still be a market for legacy devices. Case in point, Microsoft's Nokia feature phone division:
https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=VPEzTrzS03-19-16 10:42 AMLike 0 - The trouble is that BlackBerry is not really after the low end consumer market. They want to sell to consumers the type of phone that business and enterprise will purchase. Notwithstanding that the Manchester police purchased 6,000 Leaps, I do not foresee this trend continuing. Ultimately, BlackBerry needs a fleet model all touch Android for business and enterprise.
As an undergrad, I could never afford Shelby's Cobras. The fact that Ford demonstrated their credibility thru the Cobra made it "OK" to buy a Pinto.
Of course well before we talk growth, we must talk survival. Until BB finds success in Droid, they may find that their BBOS loyal might provide temporary life support.
Of course I get the feeling that some around here carry "do not resuscitate if rescuer carries BBOS..." cards. Lol.03-19-16 11:53 AMLike 0 - My father had a Mustang II based on the Pinto. Definitely not OK.
I think today your average consumer is looking for value. All things considered BlackBerry still can still provide a value phone. Even the Telus rep that I talked too noted that the PRIV was priced too high. BlackBerry would have to share resources with another manufacturer to compete at the flagship level. I would like an all touch at a Moto X price level.03-19-16 12:27 PMLike 0 - Well, since we're really only creating "virtual" solutions to a "virtual" problem, my logic wasn't intended to be flawless. My virtual logic is still evolving. Is yours?
From my perspective, your market logic is wrong. Carriers providing BIS to current customers aren't doing so out of any kindness for BB itself. They're doing so to keep their current customers happy. (what a novel concept!! Lol)
That "presence" might be leveraged to command credibility with carriers thru popular demand from mutual customers.
Again, I'm not advocating resurrecting bbos unless it can prove $$ feasibility. Only that if some affordable way can be found to retain those customers, they'll also retain some relevance with carriers while transforming their current customer base into "sales force multipliers".
Just my "flawed" opinion.
Also, i haven't mentioned BIS (must be thinking of someone else). My point has always been around the fallacy of assuming all the existing BBOS users will jump to a new, legacy device (and keep on jumping - this business requires repeat customers who upgrade regularly).
But if we're going to be virtual, why stick to a losing scenario? Let's discuss BB10 and how it was released 1.5 years earlier, had less bugs and was competitive enough to gain traction in the app and ecosystem space.03-19-16 12:34 PMLike 0 -
Truth may well be there aren't enough users like you to keep the platform going.Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.03-19-16 12:41 PMLike 1 - Since every remaining BBOS user is basically pure service fee profit for BlackBerry, I don't see how it cannot be feasible by adding more revenue if new devices were made.
While everybody blamed the carriers for "not liking BIS" 5 years later it's actually the carriers that are keeping BIS alive despite BB trying to kill it.
Many American telecom companies are also paying $0 for BIS fees since they aren't collecting that from the users.
Service revenue isn't just dropping due to less handsets. It dropping because there's negligible value-add (either to the consumer or the telecom companies). At least nothing worth paying extra fees.TgeekB likes this.03-19-16 12:45 PMLike 1 - There could still be a market for legacy devices. Case in point, Microsoft's Nokia feature phone division:
https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=y3bVwyBn03-19-16 12:47 PMLike 0 - At no point have you mentioned this is a virtual exercise. Seems like a convenient fallback when cornered by the limitations of your approach.
Also, i haven't mentioned BIS (must be thinking of someone else). My point has always been around the fallacy of assuming all the existing BBOS users will jump to a new, legacy device (and keep on jumping - this business requires repeat customers who upgrade regularly).
But if we're going to be virtual, why stick to a losing scenario? Let's discuss BB10 and how it was released 1.5 years earlier, had less bugs and was competitive enough to gain traction in the app and ecosystem space.
12M existing users. 11M users projected to migrate elsewhere THIS year. "Virtual" numbers derived from other posts in this thread. I believe that 11M projection was based on last year's bbos decline. I, myself, suspect that continued decline might not be so linearly proportional.
Please point out where I indicated in any way that ALL of existing userbase would migrate. ??? OR that legacy markets might provide everlasting opportunities? At issue is BB's survival. For the next few years. Once Android demonstrates overwhelming profit, it might THEN make sense to abandon legacy for good. Till then, the potential for aiding BB's survival shouldn't be surrendered without due consideration.
I completely agree that BB10.3.2 NEEDed to intro a month after that stupid "obsolescence announcement" in Fall of 2011. On cue with announcement timing. Just too way off delivering on the announcement. Lol.
Of course this wasn't the first time Dan Dodge's crew had over promised, under delivered while adding years to timing. Ask Gateway. Lol.
Btw, you'd equated market presence with rotary phone legacy. I equated market presence with BIS. How long carriers provide the services depends on how well they value their existing markets. Something BB might learn a little about.Last edited by idssteve; 03-19-16 at 01:29 PM.
03-19-16 01:16 PMLike 0 - How many of those 11M (consistency please) are using BBOS because the don't have a choice (ie work)? How many are using it because they're stick under a contract? How many plan on jumping ship as soon as they can?
Truth may well be there aren't enough users like you to keep the platform going.03-19-16 01:36 PMLike 0 - That's another incorrect assumption. I manage a few 100 BlackBerrys that aren't paying any service fees (BIS or BES).
Many American telecom companies are also paying $0 for BIS fees since they aren't collecting that from the users.
Service revenue isn't just dropping due to less handsets. It dropping because there's negligible value-add (either to the consumer or the telecom companies). At least nothing worth paying extra fees.03-19-16 02:58 PMLike 0 -
The BB10 'subscriber' numbers were known, and published by BB, despite not being on BIS or BES. BB used device activations IIRC and included those BB10 devices in the subscriber numbers despite there being no subscription. Wouldn't BBOS numbers be counted in the same way - as active devices?03-19-16 03:39 PMLike 0 - Is that true?
The BB10 'subscriber' numbers were known, and published by BB, despite not being on BIS or BES. BB used device activations IIRC and included those BB10 devices in the subscriber numbers despite there being no subscription. Wouldn't BBOS numbers be counted in the same way - as active devices?
A BBOS device without BIS or BES is basically invisible to BB.03-19-16 04:04 PMLike 0 - Can BlackBerry count BB10 subscribers by BBID, which is email addresses when devices are activated? So, they could have a database count of Passport activitions, Q10s, Classics, etc.... even counting broken or lost phones that were once activated, maybe something like that...
For BBOS, is it plausible that their servers see active devices by pin numbers, say like my 9780 being on wi-fi only, and able to connect to BBWorld?03-19-16 04:21 PMLike 0 -
Sorta like how they talk about 190M BBM users. That's not the number of active users, just the number of people who've ever installed the app.
Paying and active user numbers may make the numbers look worse than BlackBerry would like.03-19-16 05:02 PMLike 0 - Are you certain? Thought the number was based on number of BIS and BES users.
Sorta like how they talk about 190M BBM users. That's not the number of active users, just the number of people who've ever installed the app.
Paying and active user numbers may make the numbers look worse than BlackBerry would like.
Now I don't remember BB evert reporting on BB10 active subscribers, unless I missed it.03-19-16 05:10 PMLike 0 -
According to my telecom rep "if we're not charging you then we're not paying BlackBerry." So, nothing for the BIS access. The US telecoms don't charge for BIS on prepaid and corporate accounts - no value in paying an extra $10/mo for data connectivity compared to other accounts.
When I posed the question to my cloud email provider (also my BES provider) they told me much of the same - BlackBerry provides their service so people don't walk away from their devices entirely. No revenue for them.
My reps may be incorrect, but I have no reason to doubt them.03-19-16 05:24 PMLike 0 - Just before Christmas when I popped the Sim card from my iphone (with adapter) into my "new" 9900, Rogers sure KNEW that I switched back to using BIS because I got an email from Rogers that night about it. (I have a thread about this)
You can bet they likely KNOW how many are using it
Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk03-19-16 05:25 PMLike 0
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Should BlackBerry bring back legacy devices?
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