[Bbnivende]

There's a difference between commitment and retention.

You can just remove a service from someone. That's just defensive retention

Commitment is offering the service and be committed to talk and to offer it to new clients. When was the last time a carrier told you: BTW we have this brand new BBOS plan available. It now offers this and that?

It's like saying that Sony is committed to Beta Max customers ... there is no profit to be made from beta max nor there is anything to be made from BBOS, beside the hard-core base.

PS.: BTW they are forcing everyone to move away from BBOS plans. BBOS plans haven't been updated for years and they don't offer all the bells and whistles of the newer plans. Rogers and Telus don't offer BIS plans for BB10 as soon as BB10 launched. Bell used to offer BIS plans for BB10 devices and now they removed them.

Posted via CB10

BIS plans are only for BBOS devices. They are mandatory. Could Canadian users of BIS straighten Bob out please.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

That's all true. But a company may decide that market is too small for them, their business plan, or their desired ROI.

Companies are free to choose to not pivot into niche markets.

Yep. That's why its called free market. Companies are also free to fail depending on their choices.

[anon(9721108)]

any thoughts to this story about BB10 failing British government security testing but OS7 passed?

http://gizmodo.com/5991470/bb10-fail...curity-testing

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[thurask]

any thoughts to this story about BB10 failing British government security testing but OS7 passed?

http://gizmodo.com/5991470/bb10-fail...curity-testing

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

Well, since that's an article from three years ago, here's BB's response from three years ago:

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/tag...-for-u-k-false

I can't find out for sure if they recertified it, but given the gulf between 10.0 and 10.3, I'd think the situation is different.

[anon(9721108)]

I can't find out for sure if they recertified it, but given the gulf between 10.0 and 10.3, I'd think the situation is different.

I would find it very interesting indeed if the older 0S7 is still more "secure" because there had to be good reason the British Government felt that way in the first place.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[Chuck Finley69]

Going back to OP, why can't we have them create RIM 850 successor. I was so productive on that beast. When I was forced to use the 7200 series, I knew right then BlackBerry would fail one day.

Posted via CB10

[terminatorx]

Look at the Canadian carriers websites. BIS plans are gone. Nowhere to be found. Carrier has no incentive to offer them cause they have to share the margins with BlackBerry.

That doesn't mean they don't offer and support the BIS add-on. And I did look at their sites, did you?

http://www.telus.com/en/bc/support/a...y-devices-info
https://www.rogers.com/web/content/w...ternet_service
http://support.bell.ca/Mobility/Smar...ternet_Service
http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCat...y%C2%AE%20Data
http://mobilicity.ca/search/?submit=Search&q=blackberry

There's multiple legacy devices still fully supported by the above carriers, and that includes the 9900, 9850 and 9790. All of these carriers offer BIS plans.

Maintaining support for legacy device is a luxury they don't have. It require cash, lots of resource and human capital.

That's a matter of speculation and opinion. I do think business and risk taking often come together.

It's like saying that Sony is committed to Beta Max customers ... there is no profit to be made from beta max nor there is anything to be made from BBOS, beside the hard-core...

I really dont agree with these far fetched analogies. Betamax and typewriters (from another msg you posted)? Really, it does sound like you are milking the comparrisons. Betamax was released in 1975 and the typewriter goes back to 1868. What about people driving cars built in 2000s. Are those like driving a model T or something from the 80s? Yes yes, but in the smartphone world it's all different. Nope, a 9900 is not a typewriter and neither a betamax. Maybe the original Apple pc or Commodre PET that used the 6502 can be compared to archaic, but not even those qualify for the typewriter analogy.

[Chuck Finley69]

That doesn't mean they don't offer and support the BIS add-on. And I did look at their sites, did you?

http://www.telus.com/en/bc/support/a...y-devices-info
https://www.rogers.com/web/content/w...ternet_service
http://support.bell.ca/Mobility/Smar...ternet_Service
http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCat...y%C2%AE%20Data
http://mobilicity.ca/search/?submit=Search&q=blackberry

There's multiple legacy devices still fully supported by the above carriers, and that includes the 9900, 9850 and 9790. All of these carriers offer BIS plans.



That's a matter of speculation and opinion. I do think business and risk taking often come together.

If the carriers feel it's worthwhile to offer, they will continue to offer. BlackBerry will never turn down BIS revenue, however some carriers are shutting BIS down to prevent losing money.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

I'm typing this on a 2014 9900 produced a year after my retired Q10. If BB10 were called "BBX", would this silly "old vs new" be even more ridiculous? OS7.1 was an improvement over 7.0 because it was based on its predecessor. 10 was NOT based on its predecessor in ANY way. It included next to nothing learned by 7.1's experience. It, therefore, can lay NO claim to improving on it.

"BBX" is an entirely different OS designed from scratch for a different customer. Its relative immaturity should be expected to provide an inferior experience, for the other customers, on at least some level. This should have been anticipated. Probably was.

Now those two groups, roughly half & half of existing customers, debate which OS is "better". Generally missing that each OS was optimized for each group. Each group championing which ever works better for them.

RIM/BBRY had an opportunity to EXPAND into a new market while retaining existing markets. An opportunity some businesses would covet. Win/win. They chose either/or. Lose/lose. As they've found, stranding existing markets is a risky path to "expansion".

[Bbnivende]

Revisionist history. It is very clear that BlackBerry sales had stalled and were on the wane in the last half of 2012. The only exception being Christmas sales in the UK that year. The downward trend had been established.

I think the downward trend was hastened by announcing BBX far too early. In hindsight perhaps they should have kept BBOS for PKB phones and let that platform continue on in a slow death spiral while developing a secure Android all touch.

I have a quite unusable 9900 and a very usable Z10. That is my vote.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Revisionist history. It is very clear that BlackBerry sales had stalled and were on the wane in the last half of 2012. The only exception being Christmas sales in the UK that year. The downward trend had been established.

I think the downward trend was hastened by announcing BBX far too early. In hindsight perhaps they should have kept BBOS for PKB phones and let that platform continue on in a slow death spiral while developing a secure Android all touch.

I have a quite unusable 9900 and a very usable Z10. That is my vote.

Posted via CB10

BB7 wasn't exactly a successful launch, it was well delayed to begin with, and it took over 6 months to activate certain features like NFC and even longer for the built in FM radio.

One feature I really miss is the smart USB, I would just plug it into the car dock and the GPS, Bluetooth etc would just automatically turn on.

[belfastdispatcher]

I'm typing this on a 2014 9900 produced a year after my retired Q10. If BB10 were called "BBX", would this silly "old vs new" be even more ridiculous? OS7.1 was an improvement over 7.0 because it was based on its predecessor. 10 was NOT based on its predecessor in ANY way. It included next to nothing learned by 7.1's experience. It, therefore, can lay NO claim to improving on it.

"BBX" is an entirely different OS designed from scratch for a different customer. Its relative immaturity should be expected to provide an inferior experience, for the other customers, on at least some level. This should have been anticipated. Probably was.

Now those two groups, roughly half & half of existing customers, debate which OS is "better". Generally missing that each OS was optimized for each group. Each group championing which ever works better for them.

RIM/BBRY had an opportunity to EXPAND into a new market while retaining existing markets. An opportunity some businesses would covet. Win/win. They chose either/or. Lose/lose. As they've found, stranding existing markets is a risky path to "expansion".

The two OSs might've been for entirely different customers but that's not how BlackBerry sold BB10.

Some people had a huge shock when they moved to BB10 thinking it was a natural upgrade. It wasn't, all features that made BB a BB were gone.

[BigBadWulf]

Some people had a huge shock when they moved to BB10 thinking it was a natural upgrade. It wasn't, all features that made BB a BB were gone.

All? It was missing BIS, most profile settings, some apps and Link was and still is weak. Overall, BB10 did give a BlackBerry experience, and now is much improved on BBOS.

If it had a BIS option, I believe your perspective would be vastly different. I understand the need to move away from that service.

[belfastdispatcher]

All? It was missing BIS, most profile settings, some apps and Link was and still is weak. Overall, BB10 did give a BlackBerry experience, and now is much improved on BBOS.

If it had a BIS option, I believe your perspective would be vastly different. I understand the need to move away from that service.

It would be easier to list me what BB features BB10 offered at launch.

Auto on/off no
Profiles no
Holster profiles no
Protect backup and restore no
Maps lacked a huge part of the world

What exactly did BB10 offer at launch?

[idssteve]

The two OSs might've been for entirely different customers but that's not how BlackBerry sold BB10.

Some people had a huge shock when they moved to BB10 thinking it was a natural upgrade. It wasn't, all features that made BB a BB were gone.

Lol, 10 is 2.9 levels improved on 7.1? Lol. My company bought 26 Z10's first month out trusting BB's name. We've never felt more "bait & switched" before or since. If that weren't enough we tried Q's some months later. Maybe a great device for one type of customer but...

News flash to Heinz: SOME of us expected "BlackBerry Experience" to include basics like ToolBelt, keyboard shortcuts & speed dial, convenience key, etc. Or how about simply inserting rows in a spreadsheet? On the fly conversion between SMS/MMS and POP? First letter keyboard menu selection? ...

All things obviously not used and therefore not missed by the customers "bbx" was aimed at. The rest of us missed those things and ultimately migrated back to legacy or on to other platforms.

Using QNX in a smartphone was a great concept. The fatal flaw was in so thoroughly sequestering that development from RIM's hard won experience, IMO.

If the strategy had worked to turn BB around, I would accept the loss and this conversation wouldn't be taking place. It didn't and here we are.

[koool1]

Only for Frank Underwood.

Posted via  BlackBerry Z30

[bobshine]

That doesn't mean they don't offer and support the BIS add-on. And I did look at their sites, did you?

http://www.telus.com/en/bc/support/a...y-devices-info
https://www.rogers.com/web/content/w...ternet_service
http://support.bell.ca/Mobility/Smar...ternet_Service
http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCat...y%C2%AE%20Data
http://mobilicity.ca/search/?submit=Search&q=blackberry

There's multiple legacy devices still fully supported by the above carriers, and that includes the 9900, 9850 and 9790. All of these carriers offer BIS plans.



That's a matter of speculation and opinion. I do think business and risk taking often come together.



I really dont agree with these far fetched analogies. Betamax and typewriters (from another msg you posted)? Really, it does sound like you are milking the comparrisons. Betamax was released in 1975 and the typewriter goes back to 1868. What about people driving cars built in 2000s. Are those like driving a model T or something from the 80s? Yes yes, but in the smartphone world it's all different. Nope, a 9900 is not a typewriter and neither a betamax. Maybe the original Apple pc or Commodre PET that used the 6502 can be compared to archaic, but not even those qualify for the typewriter analogy.

I checked your links... that's what you support for BIS plans??? A hidden link that is nowhere to be found on their main website and that doesn't even have a price? Not even a picture?

Also the pages still mentions BlackBerry.net emails???? WHAT? That's what you call carrier support when then haven't updated their website for YEARS????

I am not saying BBOS is like a typewritter or Beta Max. What I am saying is BBOS is the beta max of BlackBerry. It's a product that BlackBerry still support and maintain, that used to be a standard, but that had reached its technological limits.

Same as people driving old cars. Ford won't be able to sell a 1967 mustang today and make any profits. But they can sell a 2017 mustang with new technology and under the hood and make it profitable.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I checked your links... that's what you support for BIS plans??? A hidden link that is nowhere to be found on their main website and that doesn't even have a price? Not even a picture?

I am not saying BBOS is like a typewritter or Beta Max. What I am saying is BBOS is the beta max of BlackBerry. It's a product that BlackBerry still support and maintain, that used to be a standard, but that had reached its technological limits.

Same as people driving old cars. Ford won't be able to sell a 1967 mustang today and make any profits. But they can sell a 2017 mustang with new technology and under the hood and make it profitable.

Posted via CB10

Could be wrong but I remember watching Top Gear and the new Mustangs having quite old technology, like solid live rear axle and even leaf springs?

[Jerry A]

The two OSs might've been for entirely different customers but that's not how BlackBerry sold BB10.

Some people had a huge shock when they moved to BB10 thinking it was a natural upgrade. It wasn't, all features that made BB a BB were gone.

Ask any 2 BlackBerry fans what features are important and make a BlackBerry and you'll get different answers.

For me, BB10 solved my major pain points with BBOS. With the exception of app support. But we were all doe-eyed and hopeful that would come in Spring of 2013.

[Jerry A]

It would be easier to list me what BB features BB10 offered at launch.

Auto on/off no
Profiles no
Holster profiles no
Protect backup and restore no
Maps lacked a huge part of the world

What exactly did BB10 offer at launch?

• True support for multiple accounts
• True account synchronization
• Multiple calendar support
• Complete message retrieval
• Ability to send and process calendar invites for non-BES accounts
• Shared/subscribed calendar support

The stuff that many considered the bare minimum for email handling.

[bobshine]

Could be wrong but I remember watching Top Gear and the new Mustangs having quite old technology, like solid live rear axle and even leaf springs?

Well same as the iPhone that still has a headphone jack! But there is a world of difference between today's Mustang and the Mustang when it was first introduced. Direct fuel injection, traction control... engines nowadays are much more powerful than it used to be. 90% of the car is different

That should be what BlackBerry aim to do... improve. Unfortunately BlackBerry 10 failed cause of timing and lack of developer support. But it doesn't mean that they should start building BBOS again... just as it doesn't mean that Ford should start selling 1960s mustangs again.

Sure they would sell a few... and probably a good initial order too from nostalgic clients. But it's not a viable business... they can't sell legacy devices as their core business. No company does that and is able to survive.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Ask any 2 BlackBerry fans what features are important and make a BlackBerry and you'll get different answers.

For me, BB10 solved my major pain points with BBOS. With the exception of app support. But we were all doe-eyed and hopeful that would come in Spring of 2013.

And if that was important BB10 would sell, but it didn't.

[Jerry A]

And if that was important BB10 would sell, but it didn't.

The same goes for BBOS. Neither sold because neither has what the buying public wants - broad ecosystem and app support.

The pet features we're attached to are meaningless in the greater scheme of things.

[Bbnivende]

Well same as the iPhone that still has a headphone jack! But there is a world of difference between today's Mustang and the Mustang when it was first introduced. Direct fuel injection, traction control... engines nowadays are much more powerful than it used to be. 90% of the car is different

That should be what BlackBerry aim to do... improve. Unfortunately BlackBerry 10 failed cause of timing and lack of developer support. But it doesn't mean that they should start building BBOS again... just as it doesn't mean that Ford should start selling 1960s mustangs again.

Sure they would sell a few... and probably a good initial order too from nostalgic clients. But it's not a viable business... they can't sell legacy devices as their core business. No company does that and is able to survive.

Posted via CB10

You are correct. They can continue to build PKB phones with what ever OS and still become irrelevant. BlackBerry has never made a successful all touch phone .

[bosie1920]

At this point, I think BB should just concentrating on updating current models. I sincerely hope Passport SE isn't the last version we will see.