[BoldPreza]

So we get a lot of threads on these boards about people firing off about BlackBerry and how they won't be making phones much longer, people should buy a Samsung phone, BlackBerry isn't worth putting money into, etc.

I personally have never experienced this as whenever I go into a carrier store and I say I want a BlackBerry they are all too happy to oblige! They are usually informed and well trained on the product though one guy insisted while pointing at the 9900 that it wasn't a touchscreen. But regardless with so many people making these claims on here there must be something too it. So to the carrier reps, or reps in general what would make you recommend a phone that someone hasn't asked for? Why steer them away from BlackBerry products?

And specifically why steer them too Android/Samsung products?

[eddy_berry]

They are just going to say the same thing every time:

1) They have apps (apps are what people need)
2) People find them easier to use (I personally will never understand that but I'm not everybody)
3) The have an "ecosystem" of tablets and other computing devices
4) BB randomly reboot (old but somehow still being used by some people here)
5) BB keep getting returned (I keep hearing that from sales rep stories)
6) BB may not be around soon (ooooh )
7) BB doesn't have anything every other device already has
8) BB doesn't have apps

I'm sure there is more. But that will save some time I'm sure. The negativity around here is amazing to say the least. I'm not blind but I feel like if CB was a busy street corner half the people would have "the end is nigh" boards and preaching stock analyst scripture at the top of their lungs. It kinda sucks when you have this amazing personal communication device that people are amazed by everyday but then turn away when they can't post pictures of their frappachino that they preordered with their phone. Oh well C'est la vie.

[BoldPreza]

Well as I said, I have never experienced it was just trying to understand the motivation. Could be useful information.

[ynomrah]

I'll provide my input. I currently work for Sprint Nextel as a S&R technician at a Midwestern u.s. retail location. I have a high sense of our consumer base, and am very involved with our customer interactions. That said, we very seldom have customers ever mention blackberry. Let alone inquire about owning a bb10 (sprint currently does not carry any bb10 devices). I can also count on both hands how many legacy blackberry devices I have seen this year from our customers (this includes ones I have performed repairs on). Most have simply moved on to other, more capable platforms.

To give a better idea though, the area I work in isn't very urban, but also not entirely rural either. It's fair to say that our customer base likely reflects the average consumer quite nicely, most being very susceptible to marketing and popular trends. It goes without saying we sell mostly all Android and iOS devices. Speaking for me personally, out of the maybe 3 times I have been asked about blackberry devices this year, I never have attempted to sway anyone away from their preference, HOWEVER, I certainly will always attempt to provide open ended questions in order to make a proper suggestion for the end user, regardless. This is part of the job. Its a technique that puts people into what's actually going to be the best choice for them. It reduces churn and buyers remorse to ensure the customer is always making the proper buying decision on day 1. One must remember, these are 24 month contracts. That's a damn long time for someone to be stuck with something that may potentially be the wrong device for them. As a sales consultant this is the number one criteria for your position.

Fanboys should not take this act personally. Your buddies or your family members likely were done a favor by having all their options considered. Take no offense to that. You likely were saved being blamed for a poor experience for what equates to your average prison sentence; per your suggestion.

It certainly has to be said that in most cases though blackberry devices hardly make for a favorable suggestion with most consumers wants/needs in a modern smartphone. This including devices running bb10. That's nothing but a cold hearted FACT. If you personally enjoy that device though, awesome, but do not call a sales rep "misinformed" simply when they do not share your device preference, especially when there are many other things to consider for their customer. Stop being selfish. Blackberry devices are a niche. Deal with it.

*This goes for everyone I hear mindlessly bashing any form of sales representatives.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Saiga]

At this day and age, I'm surprised that there are still people willing to recommend BlackBerry devices.

It is perfectly fine for people to enjoy using BB10 and I love my Dev Alpha C for what it does, but the fact of the matter is most people would be happier with a Android or iOS phone. It is strange that some people still don't realize that the people who would be satisfied with what BlackBerry 10 offers are the minority. Most consumers are already used to smart phones that are more capable. A lot of consumers are already invested in a different platform's ecosystem.

Why should/would a sales rep recommend a device to a customer that the the customer will more than likely be unsatisfied with? I like my BB10 phones (the DAC is better than the LEZ10), but I would be missing out on way too much if I only used BB10.

I can't name anything that BB10 will do that my Nexus 4 can't, but I could effortlessly type up a long list of features I care about that BB10 doesn't have and my Nexus 4 does. It is what it is, and bashing sales reps for telling the truth and trying to help out their customers is just immature. Remember, most consumers aren't emotionally invested in BlackBerry's survival. Those who are will be satisfied with anything BlackBerry because they view their phone purchase as helping out #TeamBlackBerry *gag*. People who feel that way about any company has no business recommending a phone to others.

Why make your friends/family/customers upset at you for recommending a phone to them that probably won't meet their needs/wants?

[FSeverino]

The fact that sprint carries no BB10 devices and gets no questions about BB10 may be related.

If i walk into a store and see a sign that I am interested in I will ask questions. If im looking at a phone and another one beside it catches my attention I will ask questions about it. But if i have no idea of its existence then how would I even know to ask a question?

That is the problem, and yes... most of the fault is on BB for that. But the sheer determination to blatantly ignore and deface BB by many carriers is also to blame.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The fact that sprint carries no BB10 devices and gets no questions about BB10 may be related.

If i walk into a store and see a sign that I am interested in I will ask questions. If im looking at a phone and another one beside it catches my attention I will ask questions about it. But if i have no idea of its existence then how would I even know to ask a question?

That is the problem, and yes... most of the fault is on BB for that. But the sheer determination to blatantly ignore and deface BB by many carriers is also to blame.

I'm sure that SPRINT is really sorry they missed the launch of BB10 and all those customers that Verizon and AT&T scooped up...

Business accounts are the only reason that I expect that SPRINT will eventually have BB10 devices - but that might depend upon how many of their big corporate/Gov accounts have committed to going to BES10.

[CrackedBarry]

One of the problems is, that selling a phone isn't like selling a fridge or a pair of pants.

As the esteemed poster above me mentioned, a 24 month contract is for a looong time. It's the beginning of a long relationship with you and the carrier, so naturally they want to make their customer as happy as possible. (so they'll ignore the fact that they're vastly overpaying for their contract).

The sales reps have undoubtedly seen a lot of BB10 phones being returned, and on top of that, there is the insecurity whether BBRY is still here in a year or two. So what's the best way of avoiding an unhappy customer and subscriber churn? You sell him the phone that most people seem to like, and which you see the fewest amount of returns: A iPhone, or a Samsung Galaxy.

[STV0726]

BlackBerry 10 is by all means a modern smartphone/mobile computing platform. If you do not realize that, then you ARE misinformed. That's just fact.

Give me one legitimate thing iOS or Android (or Windows Phone) can do that BlackBerry 10 can't, which doesn't relate to third party apps that developers have not yet made available for BB10. (Yes, I am well aware that this detail doesn't matter to the average consumer. I KNOW lack of apps means many won't want BB10 at no fault of their own. All I am arguing for is getting the facts straight here among us "experts", and saying BB10 is inherently "limited" or "incapable" is factually wrong.)

Lastly, the sales reps I bash are the ones that still question folks who enter the store knowing 100% what they want...

"Yeah I'm here to buy a BlackBerry." Shut up and get it from the back. Anyone I talk to in real life that values my opinion as a phone expert knows that I encourage zero tolerance for this behavior. If a sales rep questions you that way when you are already certain what you want, walk out and give your business elsewhere. Make them lose a sale and commission.

...but by all means, continue as you please. And of course, thanks for your professional input being a real employee of a US carrier.


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

[Saiga]

Give me one legitimate thing iOS or Android (or Windows Phone) can do that BlackBerry 10 can't, which doesn't relate to third party apps that developers have not yet made available for BB10.

USB OTG Host mode
Home Screen customization other than changing the wallpaper and the order of the icons
Run more than eight third party apps in the background at once
Run headless third party apps
Run more than one application in the foreground
Install applications to the SD card
Android, iOS and Windows Phone 8 can all be ran on less than 2GB of ram
Backup data to the cloud without using a PC or USB cable

Oops. My bad, you only asked for one thing.

[STV0726]

USB OTG Host mode
Home Screen customization other than changing the wallpaper and the order of the icons
Run more than eight third party apps in the background at once
Run headless third party apps
Run more than one application in the foreground
Install applications to the SD card
Android, iOS and Windows Phone 8 can all be ran on less than 2GB of ram
Backup data to the cloud without using a PC or USB cable

Oops. My bad, you only asked for one thing.

I COULD respond and state that some of those things are Android gimmicks, such as split-screen. I could point out that apps on the SD card is very insecure. I could point out that some of the things you've mentioned as drawbacks to BlackBerry 10 are in actuality trade-offs to the true multi-tasking system. I could point out the inaccuracy of your point on BlackBerry not having cloud support. And lastly, I could point out that you forgot Widgets, and then I would say Active Frames.

But instead, I'm going to fold because this conversation can go on forever. My original point was, BlackBerry 10 is a modern platform - as modern and with as much, if not more, potential than all the other players now. Whether or not BlackBerry utilizes that potential before they go under is out of my control.

You have valid points. I have valid points. I also have a miserable mobile life ahead of me if BlackBerry goes down. I better start adjusting to my replacement choice now, because there are ABSOLUTELY things I will miss greatly about BlackBerry 10 if I have to switch.


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

[ynomrah]

BlackBerry 10 is by all means a modern smartphone. If you do not realize that you ARE misinformed.

Give me one legitimate thing iOS or Android can do that BlackBerry 10 can't, that doesn't relate to third party apps that developers make.

Lastly, the sales reps I bash are the ones that still question folks who enter the store knowing 100% what they want...

"Yeah I'm here to buy a BlackBerry." Shut up and get it from the back. Anyone I talk to in real life that values my opinion as a phone expert knows that I encourage zero tolerance for this behavior. If a sales rep questions you that way when you are already certain what you want, walk out and give your business elsewhere. Make them lose a sale and commission.

...but by all means, continue as you please.

~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

Anyone that values your opinion as a phone expert I feel sorry for then. All you are doing is encouraging closed mindedness and rude behavior, to which I personally would not care for your business anyway. No one is trying to attack your preference, but you must realize most consumers deserve to be presented with options that coincides with what they want. If you do not wish to be presented with that service, please take your business online. Its clear that you know what you want, and there is nothing wrong with that, but do not place fault on sales reps for doing their job.

As far as bb10 goes, I really do not want to have this discussion as it diverts the thread, but I will put it very simply by ratio:

Applications 80% ( As much as it has been said over and over applications are in fact a pivotal factor of any current computing platform. Not only does bb10 not have applications that people need now, it more importantly is not a platform that has developer mindshare. Meaning developers have no intent on bringing any forthcoming clients to the platform. This is a big deal for a consumer in a 2 year contract)

Usability 10% ( bb10 has a huge learning curve for some consumers)

Reliability 10% (as it stands the OS is not very reliable)

I'm not going to list every single reason why iOS and Android are better for consumers (cause there many), but this sums it up enough.



Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[STV0726]

The 10% on reliability you must have gathered from Verizon customers. That simply is not true, especially since you as Sprint would be releasing it now and it is super stable. The random reboots were really the only significant, major stability bug BlackBerry 10 suffered from and it is long gone. Let's not blame Verizon's roll-out slowness on BlackBerry. After all, BB already got more than enough hate for this when all the VZW reps told customers to avoid the Z10 for that issue, even way past when BB fixed it. What they should have been saying is "we haven't gotten our act together yet." (And the same goes for Android updates!)

As for my close-mindedness, I realize it may have sounded that way. I present my friends with options too. I bring up the dreaded "app gap". I talk about the learning curve. I ask them what they want in a smartphone. The only real difference between me and an official sales rep is I know a great deal about technology (now I can tell you do but, no offense, many low-level reps are not hired based on any of this knowledge and I know that as a hard fact). The only other difference is that I guarantee BlackBerry the fighting chance it deserves by ensuring I always bring it up as an option, which I know for a fact anecdotally, many sales reps don't even do.

Actually, I just sold my uncle on Android. He liked BlackBerry 10 but I told him that even though things can be side loaded, if you want apps, don't rely on that.

See, we're not so different after all!


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

[Zathis]

As a sales team member at a dealership for a regional Tel-co, I can honestly say that I always recommend the device that I feel will suit the customer the best. If the customer comes in the door and wants a specific phone I will ask a series of questions to make sure they have done their homework on the device. SPIFFs are also a factor in recommending a device. Certain devices will carry a cash incentive for selling the device (SPIFF) and that will make me lean to one device over another similar one, but I will not recommend a garbage phone to a customer no matter what! I will also make sure my customers know the repair procedures and my experiences dealing with warranty repairs with each company (Motorola was the worst ever!!).

[reeneebob]

Well, far be it from me to say anything when everyone else here is telling me what I do and don't do while at work, but this is how I approach a customer.

1) I ask what phone they have now.

2) I ask if they have been researching any phones.

3) I ask what they want to use the phone for.

4) I ask if they have any tablets or other tech at home and what their brand is (to determine ecosystem )

5) I ask about how much they are looking to spend both plan wise and in store today.

6) I ask if there are any apps that they are interested in using or are must haves.

If a BB best suits them, then I happily show them a BB. I've sold more than my fair share of BB10 devices. We so not get spiff promotions on handsets, it goes based on a new account or an upgrade, so it doesn't matter what phone I sell. If they walk in requesting a specific phone, I sell them that phone.


Tippy tapped from my iPhone 5, from me to you.

[pantlesspenguin]

One of the problems is, that selling a phone isn't like selling a fridge or a pair of pants.

Who the heck wants to buy pants anyway??

[qbnkelt]

I COULD respond and state that some of those things are Android gimmicks, such as split-screen. I could point out that apps on the SD card is very insecure. I could point out that some of the things you've mentioned as drawbacks to BlackBerry 10 are in actuality trade-offs to the true multi-tasking system. I could point out the inaccuracy of your point on BlackBerry not having cloud support. And lastly, I could point out that you forgot Widgets, and then I would say Active Frames.

But instead, I'm going to fold because this conversation can go on forever. My original point was, BlackBerry 10 is a modern platform - as modern and with as much, if not more, potential than all the other players now. Whether or not BlackBerry utilizes that potential before they go under is out of my control.

You have valid points. I have valid points. I also have a miserable mobile life ahead of me if BlackBerry goes down. I better start adjusting to my replacement choice now, because there are ABSOLUTELY things I will miss greatly about BlackBerry 10 if I have to switch.


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

I disagree with the bolded. I was in a meeting where one of my team members, a contractor, was using his Note 2 to edit changes on two documents concurrently. It was extremely useful in a professional setting. Saved having to return to the office, make the changes, and then mail them out to attendees for concurrence. Time was saved, and that's always a plus with tight schedules. Hardly a gimmick. A true business functionality perfectly executed.

[bbfanboi007]

I just wanted to point out that you can only run eight active frames (basically on-the-fly widgets) but you can have many more apps running in the background without displaying active frames so there is no advantage to Android here. If anything, it's a disadvantage since Android manages multiple processes so dreadfully compared to BB10. Lag, anyone?

It's really simple -- anyone who uses their phone for communication through various channels will be much happier with a BB10 device. Same for people who use it to connect to their car. Same with people who use it as a personal organizer. Our games run better too, at least the ones with 3D accelerated graphics.

Those who mainly use their phone for snapshots may prefer other platforms, though BB10 cameras are pretty good.

By the way, the Q5 runs with one gig of RAM.

It seems like the reps who think the average consumer will be happier on other platforms haven't done their homework.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The 10% on reliability you must have gathered from Verizon customers. That simply is not true, especially since you as Sprint would be releasing it now and it is super stable. The random reboots were really the only significant, major stability bug BlackBerry 10 suffered from and it is long gone. Let's not blame Verizon's roll-out slowness on BlackBerry. After all, BB already got more than enough hate for this when all the VZW reps told customers to avoid the Z10 for that issue, even way past when BB fixed it. What they should have been saying is "we haven't gotten our act together yet." (And the same goes for Android updates!)

As for my close-mindedness, I realize it may have sounded that way. I present my friends with options too. I bring up the dreaded "app gap". I talk about the learning curve. I ask them what they want in a smartphone. The only real difference between me and an official sales rep is I know a great deal about technology (now I can tell you do but, no offense, many low-level reps are not hired based on any of this knowledge and I know that as a hard fact). The only other difference is that I guarantee BlackBerry the fighting chance it deserves by ensuring I always bring it up as an option, which I know for a fact anecdotally, many sales reps don't even do.

Actually, I just sold my uncle on Android. He liked BlackBerry 10 but I told him that even though things can be side loaded, if you want apps, don't rely on that.

See, we're not so different after all!


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

An update a couple of weeks ago is not LONG gone. And at launch the battery life on my Z10 was terrible - the first update a few week after I got mine did make it acceptable - but still not as good as many android devices, 4-6 hours is all I can get. A Charging Bundle is a MUST for anyone not near a power source!

As a BlackBerry FAN I was VERY close to returning my Z10 before the 30 day grace period was over. I had called tech support (Carrier & BB) about both issues, and the battery issue was fixed pretty quickly, and the rebooting was only a few times a week so I could live with it. But I can see where an average user might not have made the choice that I did and stick with the device - which would have lead to sales reps opinion of BlackBerry and their new platform souring very quickly.

And lets face it most sales reps don't care if BlackBerry has a fighting chance - they aren't FANS like you. They have a job and they want it to go as smoothly as possible. A BlackBerry can be a great device for a small niche group. But for the majority it is NOT a good fit right now, thus a good sales person is going to suggest something else. If all you want is a great communications tool with a really good browser.. then they shold suggest a BlackBerry. But if people start talking about being able to do the thinks that their friends iPhone can do or their brothers Android can do... they are going to steer a customer to a device that does those things.

[Berry_Pink]

I COULD respond and state that some of those things are Android gimmicks, such as split-screen. I could point out that apps on the SD card is very insecure. I could point out that some of the things you've mentioned as drawbacks to BlackBerry 10 are in actuality trade-offs to the true multi-tasking system. I could point out the inaccuracy of your point on BlackBerry not having cloud support. And lastly, I could point out that you forgot Widgets, and then I would say Active Frames.

But instead, I'm going to fold because this conversation can go on forever. My original point was, BlackBerry 10 is a modern platform - as modern and with as much, if not more, potential than all the other players now. Whether or not BlackBerry utilizes that potential before they go under is out of my control.

You have valid points. I have valid points. I also have a miserable mobile life ahead of me if BlackBerry goes down. I better start adjusting to my replacement choice now, because there are ABSOLUTELY things I will miss greatly about BlackBerry 10 if I have to switch.


~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US

active frames arent pinnable, resizeable, moveable, customisable, no interaction (i can flick through it or do things on the widget without it opening into the app, e.g. i can flick through photos on my gallery widget or use a widget to turn a function on/off) so while you could say that it wouldnt be a proper substitute

why is split screen a gimmick? its really handy tbh, you can copy and paste bits and pieces into a document without flicking back and forth, you can compare two things at once, you can watch films/youtube videos etc whilst checking your email. it would be a gimmick on a small screen phone though but on the note and the gs4 its actually good


sorry to go off topic. what one person may think of as gimmicks may be really useful to another person and they may want a phone with that particular feature when they go into a store, so for example a person going in for an upgrade assuming theyd get data compression or custom gestures/gesture launchers or tasker automation on the new bb10 and asking for what they want may benefit from those sales reps still asking them those questions because they could point out something that has all those features or inform the buyer the phone choice they want might not

[Saiga]

By the way, the Q5 runs with one gig of RAM.

It seems like the reps who think the average consumer will be happier on other platforms haven't done their homework.

Erm, I'm pretty sure you haven't done your homework. Lol

The Q5, like all BlackBerry 10 devices, has 2GB of ram. Because BB10 REQUIRES 2GB of ram to run.

Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10

[ynomrah]

I just wanted to point out that you can only run eight active frames (basically on-the-fly widgets) but you can have many more apps running in the background without displaying active frames so there is no advantage to Android here. If anything, it's a disadvantage since Android manages multiple processes so dreadfully compared to BB10. Lag, anyone?

It's really simple -- anyone who uses their phone for communication through various channels will be much happier with a BB10 device. Same for people who use it to connect to their car. Same with people who use it as a personal organizer. Our games run better too, at least the ones with 3D accelerated graphics.

Those who mainly use their phone for snapshots may prefer other platforms, though BB10 cameras are pretty good.

By the way, the Q5 runs with one gig of RAM.

It seems like the reps who think the average consumer will be happier on other platforms haven't done their homework.

Lag? It would seem judging by the fact you think the q5 has 1gb of RAM that you don't really know what your talking about. Do you honestly believe a z10 or q10 has better 3d gaming performance than a device with an adreno 320 GPU or powerVR 543mp3? I would love to see what titles your making that comparison with seeing there are hardly titles to compare.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Saiga]

why is split screen a gimmick?

Sadly, I expected my list to be dismissed as gimmicks or unneeded things. With some people, anything BlackBerry can't do is a gimmick, until that exact moment that BlackBerry can do it. Then, that same feature becomes the greatest thing ever.

I've owned BlackBerry smartphones long enough that I actually remember seeing a person say "Why would I want a music player on my BlackBerry? I have a MP3 player for that."

Evidently that was a gimmick at one point as well.


Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10

[BoldPreza]

So as the op in just want to clarify a few things. I didn't start this as a hate on for reps, no need for name calling. In fact in other threads I have called people out for that as well.

Secondly to those that dismiss split screen, you can't have it both ways. That is true multi tasking! Doing more than one active thing at a time. Are you saying that multi tasking in general is a gimmick? Do we really not want BlackBerry to pursue that kind of fluid experience?

Posted via CB10

[reeneebob]

So as the op in just want to clarify a few things. I didn't start this as a hate on for reps, no need for name calling. In fact in other threads I have called people out for that as well.

Secondly to those that dismiss split screen, you can't have it both ways. That is true multi tasking! Doing more than one active thing at a time. Are you saying that multi tasking in general is a gimmick? Do we really not want BlackBerry to pursue that kind of fluid experience?

Posted via CB10

I'm glad you started it, because the attitude towards reps on this board is appalling. I'm good at my job. I sell what will work best for the customer.

However right now there is a whack job on the board advocating instilling fear into reps by secretly videotaping them and putting it on YouTube, and abusing them, and that **** isn't cool.

Not by a long shot.

There's good and bad in any profession but I'd love it if the people who demean and abuse reps would imagine their spouse or child being on the receiving end of the behaviour they're so proud of. All over a worthless (in the grand scheme of things) cell phone.


Tippy tapped from my iPhone 5, from me to you.