[THBW]

Price really has nothing to do with it. In essence, phones are built in sit within defined ranges. Once your in that range, nobody really cares if you pay an extra 10%. That is why there is no corelation between price and sales.

As to TCL, they must be doing OK with the BlackBerry brand as they are making two new keyboards and I expect a slab later in the year. There strategy is sound which is to rebuild the product starting with mid range phones. Smart choice as the high end range is completely saturated and even the big boys are hurting. Just look at the iPhone and the S8 isn't doing much better. 1500 dollars for a high end phone is just way too much, end of story.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Price really has nothing to do with it. In essence, phones are built in sit within defined ranges. Once your in that range, nobody really cares if you pay an extra 10%. That is why there is no corelation between price and sales.

As to TCL, they must be doing OK with the BlackBerry brand as they are making two new keyboards and I expect a slab later in the year. There strategy is sound which is to rebuild the product starting with mid range phones. Smart choice as the high end range is completely saturated and even the big boys are hurting. Just look at the iPhone and the S8 isn't doing much better. 1500 dollars for a high end phone is just way too much, end of story.

Posted via CB10

When consumers go into a Bell store in Canada, they see a KEYone which is a real BlackBerry.

Unlike Nokia , BlackBerry has never made a successful all touch model. Sticking a logo on a TCL phone is not going to help. The other problem is that you cannot sell a $400 dollar phone for $600. TCL does not currently make a high end all touch phone hence they are stuck at the lower end of the market selling phones that can’t make a profit because of the licensing .

TCL needs to move their BlackBerry all touch up market where the higher price can absorb the licensing fee. The other thing they could do is to market a TCL Branded all touch device under a new lower cost BlackBerry Secure licensing agreement .

[Chuck Finley69]

When consumers go into a Bell store in Canada, they see a KEYone which is a real BlackBerry.

Unlike Nokia , BlackBerry has never made a successful all touch model. Sticking a logo on a TCL phone is not going to help. The other problem is that you cannot sell a $400 dollar phone for $600. TCL does not currently make a high end all touch phone hence they are stuck at the lower end of the market selling phones that can’t make a profit because of the licensing .

TCL needs to move their BlackBerry all touch up market where the higher price can absorb the licensing fee. The other thing they could do is to market a TCL Branded all touch device under a new lower cost BlackBerry Secure licensing agreement .

The higher price needs to absorb licensing plus allow for profit. It's the same problem whether it's high-end or mid-tier. The licensing raises the price compared to same unlicensed hardware. You're paying more for BlackBerry name and the brand isn't seen by many as worth extra.

[Bbnivende]

The higher price needs to absorb licensing plus allow for profit. It's the same problem whether it's high-end or mid-tier. The licensing raises the price compared to same unlicensed hardware. You're paying more for BlackBerry name and the brand isn't seen by many as worth extra.

Not exactly. Last time I looked the increased cost to manufacturer a higher end product was less than the price increase. There are more profits to be had at a higher price point. The problem is to make such a phone without huge R &D costs using standardized components.

The amount TCL pays to use the name BlackBerry is really a marketing fee. The amount they pay for the security updates and skin might be value added. The amount they pay for security features is not value added with respect to consumer sales.

TCL says that BlackBerry is their premium brand but it can not be so when the licensing fee is a major component of their cost. This is why for all touch devices they need to renegotiate their BlackBerry agreement or go TCL branded.

[Chuck Finley69]

Not exactly. Last time I looked the increased cost to manufacturer a higher end product was less than the price increase. There are more profits to be had at a higher price point. The problem is to make such a phone without huge R &D costs using standardized components.

The amount TCL pays to use the name BlackBerry is really a marketing fee. The amount they pay for the security updates and skin might be value added. The amount they pay for security features is not value added with respect to consumer sales.

TCL says that BlackBerry is their premium brand but it can not be so when the licensing fee is a major component of their cost. This is why for all touch devices they need to renegotiate their BlackBerry agreement or go TCL branded.

BBMo may be TCL premium brand, however, it's not premium in consumer mind. There's no reason for BBMo VKB device if carriers won't carry. That's probably why the Motion isn't USA carrier distribution ready. It's not distinct enough for the carriers.

BBMo/TCL needs to stick with PKB for now and convince all USA carriers to offer the PKB models.

[anon(10268214)]

As to TCL, they must be doing OK with the BlackBerry brand as they are making two new keyboards and I expect a slab later in the year.

BBMo is doing OK. Its a global strategy. Some people refuse to get their heads around the concept that US sales alone won't make or break the brand.

[Chuck Finley69]

BBMo is doing OK. Its a global strategy. Some people refuse to get their heads around the concept that US sales alone won't make or break the brand.

USA sales will make or break the brand licensing agreement. TCL licensed the brand to expand carrier distribution in NA and the USA is 90% of that market. In Europe, TCL has the Alcatel brand which is regarded as well as BlackBerry if not better. In MENA, again the Alcatel brand is well known. In Asian markets, TCL brand is well established.

The BlackBerry name, is not as valuable as many think outside NA. BlackBerry had strong carrier relationships years ago. Those relationships have been weakened greatly but are still in a better position than Huawei and ZTE. TCL is attempting to use BlackBerry licensing to avoid carrier distribution problems like Huawei and ZTE.

If TCL doesn't get USA carriers to carry BBMo devices, what do they need licensing for? TCL wants the BlackBerry name to open doors for its other brands too.

[anon(10268214)]

USA sales will make or break the brand licensing agreement. TCL licensed the brand to expand carrier distribution in NA and the USA is 90% of that market. In Europe, TCL has the Alcatel brand which is regarded as well as BlackBerry if not better. In MENA, again the Alcatel brand is well known. In Asian markets, TCL brand is well established.

The BlackBerry name, is not as valuable as many think outside NA. BlackBerry had strong carrier relationships years ago. Those relationships have been weakened greatly but are still in a better position than Huawei and ZTE. TCL is attempting to use BlackBerry licensing to avoid carrier distribution problems like Huawei and ZTE.

If TCL doesn't get USA carriers to carry BBMo devices, what do they need licensing for? TCL wants the BlackBerry name to open doors for its other brands too.

I don't see any evidence to support your claim that BBMo is relying on US carrier deals to for its survival or to justify it's licensing of BlackBerry. Quite the contrary. Why would TCL even bother with other markets? And more importantly, why are they shunning the US market with each and every new device?

The US is simply one part of a global strategy for BlackBerry licensing. It's anything but the primary focus. Indonesia saw the first licensed BlackBerry, UK the first KeyONE, India the first Black Edition, and UAE the first Motion...this is they way of the future for BlackBerry.

The global market is not a strategy toward the US market for BBMo. The global market *is* the strategy.

[Carjackd]

I don't see any evidence to support your claim that BBMo is relying on US carrier deals to for its survival or to justify it's licensing of BlackBerry. Quite the contrary. Why would TCL even bother with other markets? And more importantly, why are they shunning the US market with each and every new device?

The US is simply one part of a global strategy for BlackBerry licensing. It's anything but the primary focus. Indonesia saw the first licensed BlackBerry, UK the first KeyONE, India the first Black Edition, and UAE the first Motion...this is they way of the future for BlackBerry.

The global market is not a strategy toward the US market for BBMo. The global market *is* the strategy.

I wouldn't go as far as saying shunning the US market. The motion is now available via Amazon and best buy . The KEYone has been available through the same channels and AT&T for the space black version. If you are referring to the black edition , well that's not going to happen in the US as AT&T has an exclusive on the colour.

The truth is that AT&T is the only carrier that jumped on the TCL devices.

Now saying all that, I have no idea why BlackBerry Mobile is not pushing a Verizon version of the motion except for lack of demand for it. It's my only guess

[Chuck Finley69]

I wouldn't go as far as saying shunning the US market. The motion is now available via Amazon and best buy . The KEYone has been available through the same channels and AT&T for the space black version. If you are referring to the black edition , well that's not going to happen in the US as AT&T has an exclusive on the colour.

The truth is that AT&T is the only carrier that jumped on the TCL devices.

Now saying all that, I have no idea why BlackBerry Mobile is not pushing a Verizon version of the motion except for lack of demand for it. It's my only guess

Selling phones in USA is practically impossible without carriers. AT&T, Verizon and the other carriers move all the phones in this country. Factory unlocked phones have to be paid for in full and USA consumers pay on monthly payments instead.

Verizon still has to whitelist the phones and BBMo/TCL paid Verizon to do so for the KEYone. That adds cost that obviously has to be recovered. The carriers also have rules about which bands have to be on phones and which bands can't be.

The carriers make a lot of money from the incumbent OEMs through soft dollar and hard dollar payments. It's not in their interests to change the current setup and USA consumers aren't complaining.

[anon(10268214)]

Selling phones in USA is practically impossible without carriers. AT&T, Verizon and the other carriers move all the phones in this country. Factory unlocked phones have to be paid for in full and USA consumers pay on monthly payments instead.

Verizon still has to whitelist the phones and BBMo/TCL paid Verizon to do so for the KEYone. That adds cost that obviously has to be recovered. The carriers also have rules about which bands have to be on phones and which bands can't be.

The carriers make a lot of money from the incumbent OEMs through soft dollar and hard dollar payments. It's not in their interests to change the current setup and USA consumers aren't complaining.

Again, all any of this proves is that TCL is happy with whatever it can get (and for a reasonable investment) from the US market. It is anything but a 'make or break' strategy for them...it is simply one priority among many.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

must be beating their projections since they have rolled out variations of the Keyone.

Variations released later in a products life-cycle, are a way to increase stagnate sales... and a long held BlackBerry way of doing things.

I expect KEYone sales have slowed at the current price levels, and this was a simple way of injecting a little free marketing and give the current price levels a little boost. But in markets where they aren't offering the Bronze, they have gone ahead and dropped prices to try and compensate for the lack of interest. Especially with a new product on the horizon.